Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: TheMagicM on August 25, 2004, 02:44:57 PM
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...what would you have? The DiscreetFX deal below in the news section reminded me of a old machine I used to use (SGI Indy)... What are your thoughts on that computer as your main system? Is there alot of freeware on it (like Aminet?)
EDIT:
When I had the Indy, it just seemed overwhelming on what hardware options were available, what was a 'good system' etc..
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I expect I would have gone the PC route... I was being pulled three ways...
Acorn Archimedies at school... One friend with an ST and one with a PC... I prefered the games on the PC... The Mac sucked at everything back in 1989, and I would have been embarassed at using a one button mouse.
Then I saw an Amiga500... I was totally blown away... had to have an Amiga after that.
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I would have a x86 with linux on it :)
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...what would you have? The DiscreetFX deal below in the news section reminded me of a old machine I used to use (SGI Indy)... What are your thoughts on that computer as your main system? Is there alot of freeware on it (like Aminet?)
I have an SGI Octane R10k (250mhz/SSE) I stole from an eBay auction. It was just that "I always wanted one of these, so why not? It's cheap enough!" kind of purchase....
Since then, I bumped up the RAM, threw an extra Seagate Barracuda drive in it, and managed to snag a full IRIX 6.5.21 install set.
It's really a fun system to tinker with. They don't have the huge repository of binaries like an "Aminet" available, but most Linux programs have an IRIX port, or at least provisions for compiling your own... So things like Open Office, Mozilla, The Gimp, etc, are all available to keep up with modern times.
The base SGI computers are really cheap. Some option boards are still quite expensive, though. The TextureRAM options to enable MXI and MXE graphics are still fairly expensive. (seems to linger around $400 -- more than twice what I paid for my entire system [complete with a beautiful 20" SGI Granite Sony Trinitron monitor!]) And things like the Digital Video option board with breakout box run $1000++. But you don't really need that stuff if you are just tinkering and learning. The bummer of an Octane is, you can't run an IndyCam without at least the Personal Video Option board, which even it runs a couple hundred. (So I have an IndyCam sitting here with nothing to plug it into.)
Anyhow, as for using an SGI as your main system... It's more reasonable than using an Amiga. The apps are much more mainstream and current. The OS is usually fairly stable, so long as you are VERY careful to avoid dependency hell! (And trust me, on IRIX it is a very uncomfortable level of hell!)
Really, the only thing I've found lacking on the SGI side of the fence is support. There's no "Amiga.org" equivalent to go to with questions. SGI themselves don't support or provide updates to people out of service contract. (And service contracts are astronomically expensive.) Even information on hardware and configurations is scarce. You really feel like you're on a "lonely frontier" when things go amiss.
Do I use my SGI as a primary machine? No... Mine is a toy, just like my Amiga has been for the past 4 years, now. But could use it as a primary system, if I had to? Certainly, if pressed, I'd choose my SGI before Windows 3.1, MacOS 8, or OS/2. ;-)
And I would probably choose the SGI over my Amiga, as well, though that would take some heavy thought... I've got a lot more experience with AmigaOS.
PS: Whew!!! That was scary! My session timed out, and I thought this whole post was lost!!! Eeeks!
[edit] -- I didn't answer your question, though... My primary system is a brute of an x86 box I built. It currently dual-boots WinXP and Mandrake 10.
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I always used to go for the most popular system as I used to be mainly interested in games etc, so it would be a PC for serious stuff and a PS2 for games.
However, there's something about the Amiga that's earned my loyalty over the years. It was way ahead of it's time, remains very intuitive to use and is endlessly "tweakable".
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My Atari 800
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I'd have an ultra expanded Sinclair Spectrum! Two microdrives, Proface AT to link up a PC Keyboard, the works.
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A C= 64. Back in '91 when I bought my A500 I was very tempted to get a C64, only cos the secondhand one I had an eye on came with a lot of boxes showing lots of airplanes (i.e. C64 flight sims :-)). Am I glad I got the A500 and Birds of Prey and F/A-18 Interceptor (Intercepter?).
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If Amiga never existed, I would use an Apple iBook. I love OS X. I sold my last Mac a little while ago but now I miss it and want to buy another.
I had 3 SGI Indigo 2's given to me by a friend at work, and I played with them for about a week, but found Irix very slow (compared to Amiga OS) so I ended up putting them on Ebay.
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I probably wouldn't have been interested in "alternative computing" at all if it wasn't for the Amiga.
Edit: Actually no, I take that back. Haha. It would just have been limited to my ZX Spectrum. :-D
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nothing. i only became interested in computers when i saw amigas.
even when I saw this friend's apple. i just wasn't impressed.
unless a computer can be used to make art it's completely useless to me.
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A Sam Coupe! :-D
Seriously, I have a C128 that was great, and used for serious stuff until I got an A2000 - that would probably now have the harddisk and all the goodies they can run these days had Amiga never hapenned ... though I did try to towerise an Amstrad 6128 once too.
Oh, and then there's the Atari ST, which would have seen much more action had the Amiga not been there to squash it ...
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I probably would have ended up running NeXT/OpenStep and then had the dilemna of going to OSX or Linux & GNUStep.
Eventhough I've never actually used NeXT/OpenStep, it always intrigued me. I'd guess the money I spent on my first Amiga 2000 & the Amiga 4000 I traded up to; would have gone toward a NeXT Cube.
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Then I wasn't bOiNgHeAd!
(Oh dear, how sad, never mind!)
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cecilia wrote:
nothing. i only became interested in computers when i saw amigas.even when I saw this friend's apple. i just wasn't impressed.
I agree... That's just how I think about it.
:python:
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A life and/or girlfriend.........
Oh the sacrifices made to my A600 :-)
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AccyD wrote:
A life and/or girlfriend.........
Oh the sacrifices made to my A600 :-)
As I understand it, first there is the lack of a life and/or girlfriend... and then comes Amiga. ;-)
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Oh the sacrifices made to my A600
Rofl, yeah but it's a girlfriend of sorts (if only by name).
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I know exactly what I would have used, because I never did get that Amiga I wanted (due to parental pressure). I ended up buying a 386 instead. I got my act together about a decade later when I was given an Amiga 2000.
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My next best is my Atari TT030 Workstation! It is a great little machine. I have not spent as much time/money on it as I have on my Amiga 4000, the Flagship Amiga model, but the Atari TT030 Computer is also be the Flagship Atari computer. With a graphics card, extra RAM and large Hard Drive, it truley is a great machine. The Falcon is also great but I hate the case. a TT type case would of been really nice...
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I'm confused about the 'what if' aspect of the question. Is this if the Amiga never existed? Or if all the Amigas in the world suddenly vanished and we all had to use something else?
Well, for the former, I'd probably be using an Atari of some sort. Note that I've never used one before, but it seems like it would be the best upgrade from the C64 (which my family used in the pre-Amiga days). It also keeps with the trend that virtually every technology we've invested in turns out to be a commercial failure ;-)
For the latter, I'd probably make the switch to Linux or MacOSX. I've said in the past that I hate Linux, but I'm trying to get to know it better so I'll like it more. (As an Amiga user, I feel that there's just too much that needs to be configured manually. Once I get over that problem I expect I'll like it). MacOSX currently seems like the most Amiga-like system in basic operation theory: Mostly automated, with the possibility to take over operations manually.
I haven't used too many other systems, so I don't have much to compare to. Anything's better than subscribing to Redmond, though.
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Greetings,
Interesting thread. I'd still be using my C64c. I'd find ways to upgrade the little baby(w/c I miss it soooo dearly :bigcry:), I would still wonder if Jack Tramiel resign the time and purchased Atari, and probably, purchase back commodore. Eventually might become Atari-Commodore, since the money that jack supposed to lend at the 'Lorrain'. :nervous: I'd be using an Atari-ST then. I'd be a die-harden Atari User if the Amiga never came. I guess that there won't be an Atari with more than 64 colors, since there is no competition at the time, I'd say the video-gameas market will still be then on 8-bit displays. probably for the next 5 years prior to the time Jack left commodore methinks.
The PC and Macs will progress eventually but I'd estimate 4 years before 16-bit displays would be develope. Atari will not go under cause the majority of Amiga users would go there, I beleive. It's a different world we'll all be in. Amiga.org would be Atari.org or Amigaworld.net would be Atariworld.net.
Atari Jaguar will be a competing console against PS1. I don't know, since it's a different parallel time line we live in. That is what I think would happen. :-)
Regards,
Gizz
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@LP
Wayne didn't get on to you about that avatar? :oops:
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My first machine was a C64 and MS-DOS was pure simplicity by comparrison. I'd have likely gone the MS-DOS route and then worked on UNIX systems at school.
Working on UNIX at the university was REALLY painful after being raised on the A1000 (especially since the CS department thought Amigas were trashy toys and always sneered at me). I almost instantly lost my interest in computer science and changed my major to graphic design. I really wish GUIs on UNIX were as mature back then as they are today.
Now I want to work on a new desktop system BASED on the Amiga -- with a stripped Linux as the core. I'm not giving up that easily! :-D
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weirdami wrote:
@LP
Wayne didn't get on to you about that avatar? :oops:
she's wearing a Boing Bra! :lol:
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weirdami:I dont see a problem w/that avatar. Dunno what Wayne thinks though.
I guess I meant, as a alternative OS what would you want to run? I've looked at BeOS and am probably going to download it tonight, theres SGI Irix, many Linux distros, next gen "Amiga" OS (a1/pegasos), Windows, MacOS etc..
I like both A1/Pegasos but they do not have any worthwhile software to make the big switcheroo. It seems as though both just release the boards and hope people will develop enough freeware/shareware to satisfy Amiga users. Where's the big push to get some REAL applications/games? I see nothing, hear nothing.
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At college (university for those who prefer that word) we used Sun boxes, Vax, Dec Ultrix, and a few Indys. They were neat. But I'd probably be using an x86 Linux box dualbooting Windows and Linux, couldn't say which would be default, or perhaps a Mac with OSX. More likely the x86 though, as I've got 3 of those with my Amigas, one with WindowsXP and two with Linux, none currently dualbooting though. I'd like to get Amithlon dual-booting on my Windos box but haven't got around to that project yet.
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If the Amiga didn't EVER exist, I would have continued with my Atari ST, possibly going TT and then moving as I did last time onto PC. (I went PC in '96, because Amiga was dying out, and the price of a top flite Amiga was more than a superior specified PC).
I did also have an SGI Octane for a while, but once I had voodoo 2's etc in my PC, the PC kicked the Octane's ass at 3D performance, so I got rid of the unit (but kept the tasty 20" Granite finish Monitor and used it on my PC)
If I didn't have an Amiga NOW, it'd make no difference. I don't use mine anyway, I use WinUAE, so I suspect that if Amiga's had existed, but I just didn't own one anymore, I'd still be tinkering around with WinUAE. Apart from the fact my Amiga is back in my country of origin, it was a pain in the ass to connect it all up and make space for it on my computer desk (meant tidying up and nasty stuff like that) and also meant I had to dig through spiders webs in order to disconnect the Monitor from the PC to connect to the Amiga, or hauling another monitor out of the spare room.
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Actually I wonder what would of really happened if the Amiga never was released. IMHO, The Atari ST would also not exist. As it was created/rushed to compete with the Amiga! Also Multimedia would of lagged or maybe never existed. Most likely it would of caught up but nobody seems to care that the Amiga did in 1985 what PCs did in 1990+.
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Also Multimedia would of lagged or maybe never existed. Most likely it would of caught up but nobody seems to care that the Amiga did in 1985 what PCs did in 1990+.
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Heck, maybe Amiga never forms a computer but the technology is used in the first wave of multimedia video and audio cards, beating EGA, VGA, AdLib, and Soundblaster, and becoming the defacto standard for all mainstream PC clones.
Then maybe NewTek would have formed and made Lightwave and the Toaster for PC a few years earlier (out of market need) and Multimedia would have become mainstream faster and we'd be FURTHER along than we are now.
You just never know...
If there's one thing I've learned from SciFi, it's that playing with the timestream can be dangerous!
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If not for the Amiga, multimedia would not have existed until the advent of the PlayStation. The PSX borrowed more from arcade machines and high-end CGI boards than the PC, and that really turned the industry upside down to where people were programming with standard APIs (the CGI board itself), rather than hard-coding everything with the CPU in assembly. Most early CGI boards (like the one in Hard-Drivin'), were just standard paralleled CPUs rathter than purpose-built graphics chips.
I really think PC multimedia was more inspired by arcade machines and Nintendo than by the Amiga. PSX is what prompted the invention of the 3D accelerator.
Then again, remember that CD-ROMs were considered "multimedia" in the PC industry. Graphics and audio were pathetic on their own. :-)
MMX is a good example of what went wrong with the PC. Six years of work on multimedia MMX extenstions for the CPU died overnight when the 3DFX cards came out. It really is sad how long it took "custom chips" to work their way into the PC, but it would have happened eventually.
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Waccoon wrote:
If not for the Amiga, multimedia would not have existed until the advent of the PlayStation.
:-?
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Originally my response was based on "if" the Amiga had never existed. But now that the question has opened up to alternatives to the Amiga... I'd still say NeXT/OpenStep, but I'd add the Amiga inspired BeOS. I loved 4.5 and am dying to try 5.0 (it's just ashame my hardware isn't supported) , it's a shame that Palm didn't ressurect it. I'm not too sure about Zeta, is it scam or a legitimately licensed continuitation??? I'm looking forward to Haiku though. I must say that if I were going to use any "PC" OS as an alternative to Windows, Hiaku would be it. Linux is just to cumbersome for my tastes.
I probably also would have checked out the Atari ST family of computers. Unlike NeXT/OpenStep, which I've used work-a-likes of (LiteStep on Windows & WindowMaker on Linux), I have absolutely no exposure to Atari PCs. But I supose my fascination for the Amiga would have translated well to the Atari.
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If I did not have an Amiga computer, I would have an Atari ST (the second best computer of the '80s). :-D
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Well, I would probablly be using my Commodore 65 :evilgrin:, instead of keeping it stored away and collecting dust.
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Hi ShawnDude,
Don't you mean Commodore 64? :roll:
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Doomy, There was a Commodore 65 computer, a prototype. Unless he just made a typo.
I guess when you were fiddling around with Windows 3.1/95 and playing Doom, you never heard about it. LOL
It was never released, but there are prototypes floating around.
The point of all this is, if the Amiga never existed we would of ended up with some different kind of computer. I think it most likey would of been the Commodore 65 or a varient of it. It was the next logical step. Without the Amiga 1000, the Atari 520ST would probably not have seen the light of day. I am sure Atari would of came out with a 130XE varient, or maybe the ST was in the works the whole time? Not sure, was not there. But from what I have read, the ST was a last minute ditch effort to get a 16-bit computer with a GUI out the door to beat Commodore's buying and release of the infamous Amiga 1000. Atari used off the shelf PC parts to throw together the ST. That is why it was release first. :) It was a great computer too. I own several models as well.
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I went from the C128 (and thence from the 64, which was begat by the VIC-20) to the Amiga because I was a Commodore fan. For a view of what might have been, have a look here:
http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/
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@DoomMaster
Commodore 65 (http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/65.html)
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I dug out my C128 today, it's met with an unfortunate end and is now a little flatter than it used to be :-(
If anyone has a non-working C128 with intact case & keyboard please PM me!!
Anyway, with 512k of ram the C128 would have been entertaining if it had had all it's capabilities tapped! Imagine running 16 colour Geos with MagicGeos installed to pretty it up, lol.
Reading up on the C65 specifics it owed alot to the A500 design for the trapdoor, so that doesn't count! :-P
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Nope, its one of the few C65's, got it back sometime in the early 90's from Grapevine Group just around the time Commodore went under. They were selling it for about $120 then, and it they were trying to get it to work on the american power and frequency standard since they were designed as pal systems, but they couldnt get it to work so they sent me a letter telling me they would refund my money or they could send me one anyway. I decided what the heck, might as well get one and see what I could do. I first redesigned my A500 power supply to plug into the C65 and hooked the video output to my 1084, and it booted up nicely. Then as with most things I have, I tore it apart to see it's innards and such, my only problem was when I put it back together I managed to pinch the keyboard cable in the casing which damaged the contacts inside it. :bigcry: The system works great, just the keyboard don't work too good, and its a little hard finding a replacement. Some reason, my system didn't have a tag or such on it with the usual FCC warnings and model/serial numbers. I have seen 2 of them go on ebay throughout the past 2 or so years for over $1,500 and $1,750! Wouldn't be too bad to get that from it, but then again it would be hard to part with.