Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Tutorials => Topic started by: Gojirax on August 14, 2004, 04:05:43 PM
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Hi,
I'm returning to the Amiga scene after a few years, and I've read a little about the A1, but I don't have a LOT of time to surf the web lately like I used to.
What is the purpose of the A1? Is it in ANY way related to the classic Amiga?
Who is developing it?
What software/hardware does it already support?
Is it just a Power PC Linux box, or will it run Classic Amiga OS's? (3.1, 3.5, 3.9?) or is it just slated to run 4.0? (Or only a specific flavor of Linux? Will it run Red Hat etc?)
What kind of hardware expansions are supported on it?
If it's just a fairly standard PPC board, why doesn't it run something faster than a 900mhz G4?
Thanks in advance for your time,
Jack
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Welcome back..
What is the purpose of the A1?
It's (one of) the succesor of the classic Amiga line (A500 > A4000 type of machines). It's purpose is to keep the current Amiga users and to make the way for the future. Another alternative to the classic line is the PegasosII and MOS combination.
Is it in ANY way related to the classic Amiga?
Other then the name and the OS, no relation. Different CPU, no "custom" chip set.
Is it just a Power PC Linux box, or will it run Classic Amiga OS's? (3.1, 3.5, 3.9?) or is it just slated to run 4.0? (Or only a specific flavor of Linux? Will it run Red Hat etc?)
A linux is supplied with the A1, but its target OS is Amiga OS4. Classic software runs either thro UAE or on a emulation layer in the OS but the last one only supports software that doesn't hit the classic hardware directly.
What kind of hardware expansions are supported on it?
Not sure. Forget nVidia GFX cards with 3D support. Forget any special PCI cards as well. At the moment Amiga OS4 "only" supports Ati cards and Soundblaster compatible soubdcards (There are others but I can't remember them). Don't expect OS4 to support every PCI card like Windows does.
If it's just a fairly standard PPC board, why doesn't it run something faster than a 900mhz G4?
What standard PPC boards ? Only a few PPC board makers exist and they are either a direct competitor (Pegasos from Genesi) or don't give help to commercial OS efforts (Apple, Linux is ok for them, Amiga OS is not). AFAIK, other PPC boards are either in development or just don't exist. And offcourse there aren't enough resources to support a wide range of different PPC mobo's and chipsets.
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Gojirax wrote:
Hi,
I'm returning to the Amiga scene after a few years, and I've read a little about the A1, but I don't have a LOT of time to surf the web lately like I used to.
What is the purpose of the A1? Is it in ANY way related to the classic Amiga?
Who is developing it?
What software/hardware does it already support?
Is it just a Power PC Linux box, or will it run Classic Amiga OS's? (3.1, 3.5, 3.9?) or is it just slated to run 4.0? (Or only a specific flavor of Linux? Will it run Red Hat etc?)
What kind of hardware expansions are supported on it?
If it's just a fairly standard PPC board, why doesn't it run something faster than a 900mhz G4?
Thanks in advance for your time,
Jack
Uh-oh, this is gonna start a flame-war :-)
The Amiga1 is a quite regular PPC board, if you can call a PPC board regular. It can only run OS4 or Linux. OS3.x is possible through emulation (WinUAE).
However, OS4 has built in 68k emulation that appears to work invisibly, allowing you to run old wb-friendly apps.
Anyhow, you might also want to check out the Pegasos, which features MorphOS, a Amiga "compatible" OS
/me hides
-edit-
WinUAE on OS4? doh....
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Thanks for the great input folks!
I'm surfing as we speak to find more answers for myself. I've read some articles on Intuitionbase and even read through the OS4 Pre-release install instructions.
I found the section on compatibility. Very nice. As a PC user, I only buy name brand expansions anyway. (IE: ATI or Creative Labs.) I can't stand to waste time with unknown hardware, so the fact that the A1 supports Creative Labs (Audigy in particular) and ATI Radeon cards is a HUGE plus for me heheh.
Yeah, I guess that question about "Regular PPC boards" wasn't well thought out heh. :-D
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No probs... BTW,
For your daily red news go here (http://www.amigaworld.net)
For your daily blue news go here (http://www.morphzone.org)
For your daily flamewars go here (http://www.ann.lu)
For everything, well I guess amiga.org is very good ;-) (Kidding wayne, about the flamewars)
Stick around, you'll soon understand the blue and red meaning
Disclaimer;
Just joking (sort off) about the mentioned sites, no harm ment. :-D
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Gojirax wrote:
Hi,
I'm returning to the Amiga scene after a few years, and I've read a little about the A1, but I don't have a LOT of time to surf the web lately like I used to.
What is the purpose of the A1? Is it in ANY way related to the classic Amiga?
Who is developing it?
What software/hardware does it already support?
Is it just a Power PC Linux box, or will it run Classic Amiga OS's? (3.1, 3.5, 3.9?) or is it just slated to run 4.0? (Or only a specific flavor of Linux? Will it run Red Hat etc?)
What kind of hardware expansions are supported on it?
If it's just a fairly standard PPC board, why doesn't it run something faster than a 900mhz G4?
Thanks in advance for your time,
Jack
Be sure to also check out the Pegasos II system. We are much more compatable and faster then the A1 is. The Pegasos DOES NOT run OS4 but it runs MorphOS. MorphOS will wun just about any system friendly classic app as well as apps made for it. OS4 applications dont run on it, but many of the apps released are also released for MorphOS. The hardware is faster and more modern. We are close to 1/2 the price too. Go to www.morphzone.org for an amiga.org like site all about the pegasos and check out www.pegasosppc.com for the home page of the hardware and links to resellers.
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Be sure to check out IntuitionBase.com (http://www.intuitionbase.com/) for some good info on the AmigaOne models and Amiga OS 4.
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What is the purpose of the A1? Is it in ANY way related to the classic Amiga?
Hardware wise, No, it's not related. Considering the last efforts of C= were back around 1991, that's probably a good thing.
The fact that the core Amiga OS (re-written to work on PPC processors) works on the AmmigaOne hardware DOES make it related, as far as I can tell.
I've copied over backups of programs from my A4000 onto my AmigaOne and they have run just by clicking the icon (FinalWriter), or with a little bit of editing (Thor). Even Voyager (the browser) runs quite well, although rumor has it that Vaporware will not develop anything for OS4. Too bad, Voyager is nicer than IBrowse, IMHO. But that doesn't mean there won't be a PPC browser for OS4.
The fact that these Amiga programs run very nicely on an AmigaOne tells me that the AmigaOne hardware must somehow be "related" to the Amiga, too. (contrary to some of the implications above)
When the micro A1 is released, it might well take care of the price issue mentioned by one of the Peg fans above.
BTW, my A1 is running with a Radeon 9100 and Soundblaster Live 5.1 very nicely. It's at least as stable as my patched and kludged '060 A4000, and generally faster, even though the OS is still beta (pre-release).
Paul
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Be sure to also check out the Pegasos II system. We are much more compatable and faster then the A1 is. The Pegasos DOES NOT run OS4 but it runs MorphOS.
Yeah but the topic is "A1 questions".
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Well, fair's fair. The A1 and the Pegasos both share the aspect of being absolutely, totally unrelated to the original Amiga in any way.
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Well, I'm working on picking up an A1200 to soup up for my fix of "Classic" Amiga fun. (Plus I have a CD32 and A500 in the closet still.)
I'm mostly interested in the "NG" system that the largest community of classic Amiga users/developers are moving to.
Heck, if they all moved to Macs, I'd move with em.
As far as the A1 was concerned, I wanted something close to an Amiga that didn't require Windows to use.
90% of what is done on my PC's by my kids and myself is either playing games on NeoPets or Cartoon Network (So Flash and Java are a must.) or writing music with Cakewalk. (I used to use ProTools on the Mac until I lost my copy.)
So if I can surf, do Email, play online games and write music... then 90% of my Computing needs are met. (The other 10% would be playing Blizzard games like Diablo2 and Warcraft III.
I've bookmarked the sites that have been linked in this thread with info about PegasOS and A1. (Didn't MorphOS start out on Classis Amiga?)
Thanks again, great info here!
Jack
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To follow the name, the AmigaONE board is the only route (despite is being a overpriced POS board), MorphOS has got a better priced board but if you want to follow the Amiga name then that is not an option.
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90% of what is done on my PC's by my kids and myself is either playing games on NeoPets or Cartoon Network (So Flash and Java are a must.) or writing music with Cakewalk. (I used to use ProTools on the Mac until I lost my copy.)
So if I can surf, do Email, play online games and write music... then 90% of my Computing needs are met. (The other 10% would be playing Blizzard games like Diablo2 and Warcraft III.
Is that all you want?
Sorry you're SOL on practically everything you mentioned.
There's no java support yet.....although there's a Jamiga effort.
There's definitely no Flash player, and even if there was it'd be clunky like Linux.
There's no Cakewalk port, but there are sure to be some 68k midi composition programs out there somewhere. Maybe someone's working on a PPC one right now. The only music related thing I've heard about for the PPC is Audio Evolution, and I may be wrong, but it looked to me like a sample based program.
Diablo II and Warcraft III?????? These are recentish PC games right? So its unlikely there'll be a port unless they are released as open source.
There is some hope on the Flash and Java side although nothing has been announced. AmigaDE is a technology being pushed by AmigaInc that is certain to make its way to OS4 at some point. The AmigaDE tech is based on(or perhaps rebranded) Tao's Intent technology. Tao also has a browser called Qi, and Qi is said to feature Java and Flash functionality(at least its a stated goal on their website). Now, if AmigaDE is going to make it to OS4 it stands to reason that Qi will also. But there have been no announcements to confirm this. Genesi will probably buy the tech from Tao for use in MorphOS, in the end as well, if AmigaInc get out of making the port of AmigaDE that a recent court case was about. Yes, its complex and its not black and white, but red and blue. ;-)
But don't hold your breath for any of these things. You could be waiting for a long time.
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Paul wrote:
The fact that these Amiga programs run very nicely on an AmigaOne tells me that the AmigaOne hardware must somehow be "related" to the Amiga, too. (contrary to some of the implications above)
I'm sorry, but you figured wrong. That's all done in software via emulation.. The AmigaOne isn't related to the Amiga hardware in any way.
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There's definitely no Flash player
There definitely IS Flash player.
BUT it sure can't play all the flash files out there (especially games)
But some flash files (Such as Happy Tree Friends) it can play, more or less...
Audio Evolution for OS4 (and ProStationAudio for MOS) are both "multichannel mixing programs". Of course such programs are VERY useful to any composer, but they won't replace a midi sequencer.
About old Amiga sequencers, Bars & Pipes is being developed for morphos, and I think that OctaMED soundstudio is also still under development (Well it isn't sequencer, but a VERY good tracker with midi support)
And of course, then there's also completely new ProTracker being worked on...
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Hi Acill,
Be sure to also check out the Pegasos II system. We are much more compatable and faster then the A1 is. The Pegasos DOES NOT run OS4 but it runs MorphOS.
>joke mode ON<
Acill . . . are you beginnng to speak like the Pope? (Plurale Maiestatis):-D
or WE stay for: the "Great Pegasos Family"?
>joke mode OFF<
sorry Acill . . . i couldn't resist :-)
Ciao
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I'm mostly interested in the "NG" system that the largest community of classic Amiga users/developers are moving to.
I think most people will either stay with their classic amigas and/or will run winuae on a x86 box. The only way the A1 is related to classic amiga is the NAME.
If you dont care about the NAME, the best solution is to get yourself a fast x86 board (if you dont have one already) and run winuae. It is compatible with just about any piece of amiga software (not like Morphos/Os4)and its cheaper than any ppc board. Its sad but thats how it is nowadays.
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I still have my copy of Octamed Sound Studio 1.1 and love it. It's a great tracker with all the MIDI support I need. (I suck at Midi, so I just use it to plug my keyboard into and input music that way.)
I checked out the Protracker II site and that looks like a really nice piece of work so far. I already have two fast PC's (To play Everquest you have to have top end MS-PC's) and I already get my modest fix of Diablo II and Warcraft III.)
The biggest bummer would be a lack of Java/Flash support.
I thought Opera was getting ported to almost every platform/CPU flavor? What happened to that?
What about Firefox?
Oh well, it doesn't matter that much heh, I'm mostly concerned about getting OFF the Microsoft platform before they introduce their subscription based Operating System on or around 2007 (Yeah, you won't own software anymore, you just lease it and download patches etc.) So there's plenty of time for someone to port the Web goodies heheh.
P.S.
@Ascii - I was an Amiga evangelist for years, so I can appreciate your passion for Pegasos.
I've learned as much from this thread as I have from the 5 or 6 hours I've spent scouring the web in search of answers.
Thanks a ton guys,
Jack
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Most modern computers require emulation in order to use programs made a long time ago (I need DosBox to play a couple of old MSDOS games on WinXP Pro for instance).
I think keeping your old Amiga, or using emulation is the best way to play the old games. The AmigaOne is so vastly overpriced it's just not funny, especially as the technology it boasts is so horribly outdated. AGP 2x? I've been using AGP 2x and faster boards for almost 6 years. Ati Radeon 7000 32Mb? Ancient technology compared to todays 9800, x800s and Geforce 5950s and 6800s. The price of the registered 512Mb memory (what is it PC133 I think? or is it PC2100, either way, OLD) is crazy, you can pick up PC3200 512Mb for less than a 3rd of what Eyetech are asking. Soundblaster 5.1 (sigh, where's the Audigy 2?) And then A PPC 800Mhz. Good grief. You can get a much more powerful G4 Laptop for half the price of an AmigaOne.
I'd like a PCI card with the ECS and AGA chipset on it, and maybe a 68000 (for compatibility) and an 060 onboard. Throw in a PPC slot, so I can chuck in a G4. Then I could Dual Boot XP Pro and MorphOS or OS3.9
The PPC slot isn't a must have though, because I'd only have that to run any new Amiga games if they ever came out, and to be honest, they probably won't touch the sort of things I'm playing on my PC. WinUAE allows me to run a crazy fast 68040, that'll run almost any 680*0 game I throw at it. (Quake, Genetic Species, AB3D2 etc. run WAY better on UAE than they do on my PPC A1200)
I'm certainly not paying for an AmigaOne, I've looked at Eyetechs specs, and what you get is ancient poop. Unless they release a realisticly priced motherboard for it (which based on the fact that half the components are like 6 year old technology, means I wouldn't pay any more than 25 quid)to which I could add my own components (if it HAD to be a radeon 7000, I'd get one off ebay for 10 quid), then my Amiga'ing is definitely going to be WinUAE based.
Finally a new Amiga. And once again, it's overpriced and outdated. When I bought my first Amiga, it seemed WAY more advanced then any other computer out there. And it wasn't unreasonably priced against the competition. Seems to me that Amiga Inc. and Eyetech are trying to follow every other company and kill Amiga off.
I'll stick to WinUAE and OS3.1 (I'm not paying stupid money for OS3.9. I bought enough Amigas and upgrades for them thanks. Dam OS should be free by this point) :pissed:
AmigaOne-XE 7451@800MHz G4 power system 1399.95..... LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Source=Arianet (prices inc. VAT)-
Arianet Cybercase black/sil 420W - £21.74
Gigabyte GA-K8NS (Nforce3 250) - £64.63
AMD Athlon64 3400 RETAIL - £199.69
Kingmax "Hardcore" 512Mb PC4000 DDR - £77.55
Kingmax "Hardcore" 512Mb PC4000 DDR - £77.55
(that's 1Gb Total)
MSI GeForce 6800GT 256MB DDR3 - £316.08
(A brand new Radeon 7000 with 64Mb on this site btw costs £24.68 inclusive)
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS - £85.78
160G Maxtor DMax+9 SATA150/7200 8MB - £62.86
160G Maxtor DMax+9 SATA150/7200 8MB - £62.86
(that's 320Gb Total)
Sony DWU-18A DVDRW± OEM Silver - £45.83
Samsung 52x52x32 CDRW - £18.21
3½" Floppy Drive - £5.86
Generic Multimedia Keyboard SIlver - £4.70
A4Tech Infra-Red Wireless Mouse - £8.23
Microsoft Windows XP Pro OEM - £99.88
That's £1151.45. That leaves me enough change for a 19" monitor and some kick ass speakers
19" Arianet Digital Monitor - £116.33
Creative Inspire T7700 7.1 Speakers - £93.99
That leaves me with 38.18. A hearty lunch, or a copy of Doom 3 to show off my kickass system. Though I already have a 19" and a 21" monitor, plus 7.1 speakers, I have most of the above listed components. All I need is a new mobo and CPU plus the GFX card. With the money I could spend on an AmigaOne, I could go AMD Athlon64 Fx53, and Geforce 6800 Ultra, and still have change for another PPC A1200.
I expect I'll get flamed for this, but my point is that Amiga is NOT going to live on through the AmigaOne. Not at this price anyway.
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Meh, as many have stated, using a 600MHz Pegasos is more resposive than a 3GHz PC, and with the A1 and Peg being broadly comparable the speed of the CPU isn't really an issue.
Personally I'm fed up with oversize programs that the PC and Mac is plagued by (waiting 30 seconds for Word 2003 to load for instance), and through the roof computer specs for no reason other than bragging, and am looking for something efficient to do work on.
As for games, I havn't seen one that was more fun to play (rather than just being more flashy) since Halo on the XBox, and that works nicely on slower hardware than an A1 ;-)
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I'm sure your 600Mhz Peg is perfect. As for Word 2003 taking 30 seconds to load, I'm sure that's a problem with whatever PC you were using, as it takes less than 2 on mine. I'm happy with the response of OS3.1 on WinUAE. I bought my original Amigas though, primarily to play games.
My point is AmigaOne is WAY overpriced, and already outdated, no matter how you look at it. Playing Unreal 3 it won't be.
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The only way the A1 is related to classic amiga is the NAME.
:-o I guess it being based on AmigaOS sources mean nothing to you! :-o
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pixie wrote:
The only way the A1 is related to classic amiga is the NAME.
:-o I guess it being based on AmigaOS sources mean nothing to you! :-o
Okay ans AROS, MorphOS and other clones are "based" on it as well. Whats the point?
@Framiga: How did i know you would have to jump in. I meant "WE" as in "Pegasos Users" I wanted to make sure he knew of it and that the A1 isnt the only choice.
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The only way the A1 is related to classic amiga is the NAME.
AROS, MorphOS and other clones are "based" on it as well.
:-o They are are based on pure AmigaOS sources as well!? :-o
Whats the point?
None at all, you had made the point clear, A1 don't share nothing with the Amiga, only the name ;-)
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I guess it being based on AmigaOS sources mean nothing to you!
I was just talking about the A1 board, not about os4.
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Okay, This topic has wandered off topic. The guy asked about the AmigaOne and didn't ask for a Red vs Blue debate. His question seems to have been answered. Please feel free to open another topic.
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As this thread illustrates, one of the most tangible benefits of buying into the post-classic Amiga market (either an AmigaOne or a Pegasos) is to be able to argue nonstop about your choice from an owner's standpoint. ;-)
I think one of main appeals, really, is to be part of something new, which can be a lot of fun. The fact that there *aren't* already dozens of applications for every task is part of the twisted pleasure. :-) It's like living in a house that's still under construction; you may not have running water upstairs or anything covering the interior walls yet, but you can help decide where to install the windows and how to lay out the back yard. If you want to be part of a new platform trying to get off the ground -- and don't mind the negatives, like pricey low-volume hardware, missing applications, and an uncertain future -- then this is a good place to be.
-- gary_c (Pegasos owner)
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Diablo II and Warcraft III?????? These are recentish PC games right? So its unlikely there'll be a port unless they are released as open source.
Can't speak for WarCraft III, but Diablo II ran just fine on my Pegasos under MacOnLinux.
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@rayt:
I was just talking about the A1 board, not about os4.
May I care to desagree, at least with what you've written, if that wasn't what you intended it's because you expressed yourself wrong.
One of the special aspects in Amiga (at least) was its Hardware+OS integration, and even if only by this reason alone, and since there's an AmigaOS integration with A1 based on AmigaOS sources one have to say that at least on this they are related, so you can't just say 'The only way the A1 is related to classic amiga is the NAME', because at least it has *something* more related to it more then the *NAME*.
Saying:
a) The only way A1 is related to Amiga is the *NAME*, and as such
b) the best way to go is WinUAE.
you're not giving decent information about the subject as there's more to A1 then *NAME*.
I don't want to get further into what Amiga is or isn't, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion about it, but get things straight when vocalizing that the only thing they share in common is the *NAME*.
Capisce!? ;-)
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[/quote]Can't speak for WarCraft III, but Diablo II ran just fine on my Pegasos under MacOnLinux.
Warcraft III won't work under MOL as it uses hardware 3D acceleration which is not supported by MOL.
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Capisce!?
So, practically speaking, if I purchase a SUN, and copy the content of my Workbench disks to the hard drive, then that Sun hardware will be more Amiga hardware than without those?
Arguing that software can make a hardware more Amiga may prove to be a two edged sword: have you experienced the MorphOS feeling? :-) Current hardware has little to nothing in common with the Classic hardware. Both (or all three) available alternate Operating Systems are based upon (the same) AmigaOS API.
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Saying:
a) The only way A1 is related to Amiga is the *NAME*, and as such
b) the best way to go is WinUAE.
you're not giving decent information about the subject as there's more to A1 then *NAME*.
I don't want to get further into what Amiga is or isn't, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion about it, but get things straight when vocalizing that the only thing they share in common is the *NAME*.
I dont really understand what you mean. Os4 is based on the original AmigaOs sources thats true. But the A1 is in no way based on the original Amiga Hardware, just like the pegasos, or apple mainboards, or x86 mainboards. Its floppy controller cant even read amiga disks. The only connection to classic amigas is that it runs AmigaOS and that its called "amiga".
I am seeing things realisticly and Im not saying that the A1 is the wrong way to go and there should be a new custom amiga (which woul be very cool but sadly is impossible to do), but after all the Amiga One is just a standard atx ppc mainboard (which is nothing bad though).
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Okay, save for the two posts about Warcraft III and Diablo II working or not working, people are still arguing "What is Amiga". We've been down this road before, many times, and nothing is going to get settled.
Suffice it to say, the Amiga is going through a similar transistion to what the Mac did. From 68K to PPC, but in our own unique way. The Mac's transition wasn't easy, some Mac users didn't like it, there were problems, but in the end they got something better. We at least get to hold on to our OS and not get it changed out for a BSD variant. The on board subsystems that made the Amiga unique in computing now come on PCI cards. A custom system like the originals is just not economically possible and the PCI cards give a faster or user paced upgrade path than the originals could offer. Separating the OS from its custom chips was and is the only way to save and move the OS forward on to new hardware that will have plug-in replacements for those custom subsystems. We were already going that way with all exspansions that replaced most of the classic motherboard. Put in a PPC accelerator, a PCI bridge card, Adreniline sound card, a Picasso IV, Spider USB, etc... and what are you really using of the original classic motherboard.
I'm locking this topic. Feel free to open other discussions, the original questions have been answered as best they can be.