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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: patrik on August 11, 2004, 04:08:00 PM

Title: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: patrik on August 11, 2004, 04:08:00 PM
Does anyone know if a TCP/IP stack that will run under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3 exist?


/Patrik
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: blobrana on August 11, 2004, 04:36:12 PM
Hum,
i don`t know...
to use AmiTCP you need an Amiga running AmigaOS 2 or greater, recommended are hard disk and 2MB of ram...

i looked at Aminet (http://ftp.uni-bremen.de/aminetbin/find?tcp%2Fip)  but could`nt see anything ..
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: cha05e90 on August 11, 2004, 05:29:51 PM
Hi!

I guess or suppose you will have no luck with TCP/IP and OS1.3.
Even the "oldest" Amiga TCP/IP stack (Commodores AS225) and its
derivatives (Interworks I-Net 225) use SANA-II and need at least
(IFAIK) OS2.0.

Cheers,

Frank.
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: drHirudo on August 11, 2004, 06:35:38 PM
Try AmigaTCP (http://www.funet.fi/pub/amiga/fish/201-300/ff225/AmigaTCP.lha)
Quote

This is the KA9Q Internet Software Package.  The package supports IP, ICMP, TCP, UDP, and ARP as basic services, and
implements the FTP, Telnet, and SMTP protocols as
applications.  It runs on IBM PC and clones, the Apple
Macintosh, and the Amiga.  Includes source.
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: adolescent on August 11, 2004, 09:27:46 PM
Isn't KA9Q for amature radio equipment?

As for the original topic.  AFAIK, AS225 works with OS1.3.  But, I've never seen a copy for sale since the early 90s.
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: patrik on August 12, 2004, 01:03:52 AM
@blobrana:

Yeah, the oldest AmiTCP I could find on Aminet was version 2.2. When I start installing it, the installer says that it needs atleast exec version 37 (2.04) and tells me I only have version 34 (1.3).

I wonder if AmiTCP 1.0 would run on WB1.3 and if it is possible to get hold of it. As the older AmiTCP versions are distributed under the GPL licence and evidently some versions were uploaded to for example Aminet it just feels like it should be obtainable somewhere. Who knows, maybe older versions than 2.2 existed on Aminet way back but the reason why they cant be found now is because they removed older versions when a newer version was uploaded.

@cha05e90, adolescent:

Are there any TCP/IP applications available that can use the AS225 TPC/IP stack and do you know if it is possible to get hold of AS225 somewhere?


/Patrik
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: Argus on August 12, 2004, 02:03:46 AM
I've seen the AS225 packages selling on eBay (gulp!) for around $20.00 every now and then.  Trouble is the packaging indicates it's for Commodore Amiga Release 2 (that means it runs off a 2.04+ ROM version). You can get 2.04 ROMs for a song and you can do everything with them except graphical URL browsing (due to lack of datatypes in 2.0, 2.1).  But if you want to use Miami, AmiTCP, TermiteTCP or other stack there are many mail programs (except YAM), ftp programs, etc. that work fine with 2.04 Kickstarts on even a base A500 with 1MB chip and a couple megs FastRAM (and of course a harddisk).
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: QuikSanz on August 12, 2004, 02:15:43 AM
@ patrik,

The oldest stack is termite, may or may not work.

Chris
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: Cyberus on August 12, 2004, 05:10:02 AM
Hmm, I assume Genesis won't run on a KS2.05 machine?
I was just looking for a TCP/IP stack for my A600HD...

Guess Miami it is then...

Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: adolescent on August 12, 2004, 05:27:39 AM
@QuikSanz

AS225 came out sometime in 91-92.  I think that predates Termite-TCP by about 4-5 years.

@Argus

Yes, the AS225R2 or INET225 packages are much newer and won't work with OS1.3.  I believe that only AS225R1 and betas work with OS1.3.  

@Cyberus

I use AmiTCP demo from Aminet on my A600.  Works great, no MUI overhead (although, you can run Miami without MUI too).  
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: Cyberus on August 12, 2004, 05:36:35 AM
Oh right, I'll have a look on Aminet for it. By the way, is it a pain to set up/configure? Or relatively straightforward?
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: pjhutch on August 12, 2004, 09:13:15 AM
AmiTCP is a little more difficult to configure than Miami or Genesis etc...
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: DonnyEMU on August 12, 2004, 10:30:42 AM
TCP/IP under 1.3??? Lordy it was exciting for us that it supported autoconfig and you could at a 5Meg hard drive to the  system.. Sometimes it's difficult to have historical perspective on this..

However Ameristar made a 10base2 ethernet adapter for the a1000 so maybe there is hope that something could surface..
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: adolescent on August 12, 2004, 06:26:07 PM
Quote

pjhutch wrote:
AmiTCP is a little more difficult to configure than Miami or Genesis etc...


Just a little. :-)  But if you're okay with a text editor you'll be okay.  I used the demo from Aminet and it's default installer.  It doesn't know about CNET.DEVICE so I just chose Ethernet/A2065 and then manually made the changes to the db files using the examples in the archive as reference.  

Pretty easy!  

Note:  I don't think you can copy the example files over verbatim as they are for AmiTCP 3.0b (demo on Aminet is 4.0).  But, I never tried.  I have a AmiTCP 4.2 key somewhere here that once I find I will upgrade to the final.  For now the limited use I get it works fine, although slow on the 000.
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: patrik on August 12, 2004, 07:15:11 PM
@Argus:

Do you remember if it was AS225r1 or AS225r2 you saw on eBay?


@Cyberus:

Genesis requirements:
-Amiga with 68000 CPU
-AmigaOS 2.04+
-Minimum 4 MB RAM
-Harddisk

This is according to Haage & Partners product page (http://www.haage-partner.com/products/genesis_e.htm) for Genesis. Alas Genesis should run on your A600HD provided it has enough memory.

You could always try AmiTCP 3.0b2 (http://www.funet.fi/pub/amiga/gnu/tcpip/) which is a version originally released to beta-testers. According to this (http://www.aros.org/documentation/developers/summaries/tcpip.php#amitcp-3-0b2) page it is very stable and is essentially the same TCP/IP-stack as the AmiTCP 4.0 Demo. One of the most interesting thing with this stack is that it is last AmiTCP version distributed under GPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html) licensing.

It will be harder to set up AmiTCP than Genesis or Miami, but with a machine like your A600HD which I assume have limited amounts of memory it should be worth some extra work.

Btw, Genesis is essentially AmiTCP but with a GUI ontop to configure and control it. Also worth mentioning is that both AmiTCP and Genesis are faster than Miami.


@adolescent:

Then it sounds like AS225R1 would be the best bet. It would be very interesting to know if AmiTCP 1.0 can run under 1.3. According to this (http://www.jeacle.ie/publications/articles/amitcp/) page, AmiTCP was a free implementation from the start. I know that version 2.0 to 3.0b2 was distributed under GPL licensing so its not impossible that it was distributed under GPL licensing from the very start.

Anyhow - GPL licencing or not, AmiTCP 1.0 was free so it should have been uploaded to fileshares like BBSes, Aminet, etc once in a time. It seems reasonable to think that someone should have it on an old disk or harddrive or something.


@DonnyEMU:

Yeah, it would be very exciting with TCP/IP on a 1.3 machine! Just imagine your old 1.3 machine being able to use some TCP/IP applications to communicate on a network :=).


/Patrik
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: adolescent on August 12, 2004, 09:31:36 PM
@Patrik

AmiTCP 1.0 requires at least OS 2.04.  Sorry.  :-(

AmiTCP 1.0 readme.txt:
Code: [Select]
TITLE

 AmiTCP/IP - TCP/IP protocol stack as Amiga shared library

VERSION

 Distribution version 1.0

AUTHORS

 AmiTCP/IP group in Programming Project Course in
 Helsinki University of Technology. Futher on just
 AmiTCP/IP-Group.

 Tomi Ollila <Tomi.Ollilate@cs.hut.fi>
 Pekka Pessi <Pekka.Pessi@hut.fi>
 Jarno Rajahalme <Jarno.Rajahalme@hut.fi>
 Markus Peuhkuri <Markus.Peuhkuri@hut.fi>

 E-mail address: amitcp@hut.fi

DESCRIPTION

 AmiTCP/IP is the first publicly available TCP/IP protocol
 stack for the SANA-II interface. It has a BSD-compatible
 socket interface as a Amiga shared library.

FEATURES

 1. Standard SANA-II network device driver interface.
 2. BSD-compatible socket interface as a Amiga shared library.
 3. ARexx port for configuration and statistics.
 4. Over 200 pages of documentation including:
  - Installation and configuration
  - ARexx port commands
  - Programmer's manual based on the BSD IPC manual. It
    is a fairly complete tutorial for developing powerful
    client/server applications
  - Internal description of the implementation
  - API function reference guide in AutoDoc form.
 5. Basic applications with source included.
 6. Based on the BSD Net/2 release.
 7. Full source code included.


SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS

 AmiTCP/IP can be run from floppy and with one
 megabyte of memory.

 OS release 2.04 or newer is required.

 Sana-2 device drivers for the network interfaces.

 Distribution is archived with lha so program to
 un-archive them is needed.

HOST NAME

 Software has been uploaded to the Aminet
 (amiga.physik.unizh.ch, 130.60.80.80) and will be
 readily available on other Aminet sites.

 For convenience of Finnish users, AmiTCP/IP is also
 uploaded to the ftp.funet.fi.

 The authoritative version of AmiTCP/IP is located in
 kampi.hut.fi, but this archive is not meant for massive
 downloading. All new versions will be announced and
 distributed to other archives, too.

DIRECTORY

 In Aminet: comm/net
 ftp.funet.fi: pub/amiga/communication/tcpip
 kampi.hut.fi: AmiTCP

FILE NAMES

 AmiTCP/IP is distributed in 3 archives:
 AmiTCP-bin-10.lha AmiTCP/IP binaries
 AmiTCP-doc-10.lha Documentation for AmiTCP
 AmiTCP-src-10.lha Source for AmiTCP/IP

 If you just want to use AmiTCP/IP, you need just bin and
 doc. To develop your own applications or AmiTCP/IP you
 need src, too. Number in the name corresponds to
 distribution revision. 10 means revision 1.0

PRICE

 Free. Contributions are accepted.

DISTRIBUTABILITY

 AmiTCP/IP is distributed under Gnu Public License.

OTHER

 Note, that this is not a final version but a
 &quot;gamma&quot; version that is given to Amiga community to
 find out and identify bugs that are still left in
 code.

 E-mail address for bug reports and fixes:
 amitcp-bug@hut.fi


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: Cyberus on August 12, 2004, 10:14:07 PM
@patrik

Thanks, I'll see if I can get that working
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: patrik on August 12, 2004, 10:44:44 PM
@adolescent:

Thanks for the information! You dont happen to have the complete AmiTCP 1.0? :)


/Patrik
Title: Re: TCP/IP under Workbench/Kickstart 1.3?
Post by: LocalH on August 13, 2004, 03:49:32 AM
I dug around a bit, and found this search result on Aminet:

AmigaNOS on Aminet (http://ftp.uni-bremen.de/aminetbin/find?amiganos)

The version of the KA9Q tools on fish 225 is old anyway, there's a newer version listed on Aminet, but it doesn't say which version of WB it requires in the description link, so you may have to use the one from fish 225 (the original PC version was also called NOS, thus the name AmigaNOS here). However, it doesn't expose a standard sockets interface, so I don't see that you'd get much use out of it except for the tools listed along with the above search. Also be aware that the file named "NNTPKick13.lzh" is actually version 1.3 of "NNTPKick", and nothing to do with KS1.3 - it actually requires KS2.