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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 01:58:41 PM

Title: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 01:58:41 PM
@ all the technicians here :-)

1 week ago, after a great, evil crash my PPC (a 604e on a CSPPC Phase5) is gone :-(

The board still working with the 060-RAM and SCSI but the PPC isn't recognized with both PowerUP and WarpOS (tryed all the possible way).

Now i've checked the PCB and i've found a 1uf-35volt tantalium capacitor, in short on the back side of the board.

Now i'm not sure if this capacitor is really in short or it is shorted by software or by another component, can someone tell me if this component (with the CSPPC out of the computer) is in short even on your board?

HERE (http://xoomer.virgilio.it/cieffeeditingvideo/pic/CSPPC-2.jpg) the picture of the rear side of the CSPPC and the capacitor in the red circle. (attention 1MB picture)

Thanks a lot for the help.

Ciao



Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: whabang on August 09, 2004, 02:13:56 PM
Permission denied?

You could always send it to DCE! :-P
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Turambar on August 09, 2004, 02:13:57 PM
File is forbidden.
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Cyberus on August 09, 2004, 02:20:39 PM
I hope it turns out okay framiga
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: patrik on August 09, 2004, 03:07:34 PM
@whabang, Turambar:

Click on the link and then reload the page, that worked for me.


/Patrik
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: whabang on August 09, 2004, 03:14:47 PM
not for me
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: patrik on August 09, 2004, 03:17:46 PM
@whabang:

Can you load this (http://xoomer.virgilio.it/cieffeeditingvideo/pic/) link?


/Patrik
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 03:56:38 PM
thanks to all for the reply :-)

yes here too, sometimes i need to reload to see the pic.

Anyway, if someone can do those test (a DMM on a continuity check, is enogh) i'll remember all you, in my prayers :-)

Cheers

EDIT- strange . . with AWeb 3.5.01beta and Voyager3.3.126, the URL works.
With IB2.3, i must reload the page . . . .?!?
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: doctorq on August 09, 2004, 04:49:14 PM
@framiga

I feel your pain brother....

On one of my CSPPC board I have the same problem. 060, ram and SCSI works as it should, but whenever I try to run some PPC software the computer crashes :(

A friend of mine got a BPPC where the PPC cpu didn't work as it should; it also crashes the computer I think. He downclocked his PPC cpu, and then the PPC cpu came back to life. I'm going to ty it out at least; hopefully I will get my PPC working again. If not I will manage with a board acting as a CS 68060 board.
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 05:04:21 PM
Hi doctorq

so, mine doesn't crash.

It return a message that the ppc.library 44+ doesn't exists (under PowerUP) like it should not be able to found phisically the 604e. (probably NOT powered)

Under WarpOS . .  . quite the same.

I think it should be a problem, related to those shorted capacitor . . . or i hope so :-)

BTW . . . . Amiga.fr is down?

Ciao e grazie

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Acill on August 09, 2004, 05:27:19 PM
@Framiga

its very hard to test parts on a card while they are in place. You will get false readings that way because your reading everything in the card that the item is connected to. Thats why they have card testers that run test on the complete card. your best bet would be to see if anyone has a tester that will work. i'm sure only DCE has the proper connectors to hook them up to a tester, but you never know. If you can find a replacement you can alwys remove the part and just see what happens with a new part.
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 05:31:08 PM
Hi Acill

yes i think it is the best thing to do ATM.

Already got the spare part.

Thanks

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: PiR on August 09, 2004, 05:56:03 PM
Poor guy, Framiga!
I feel very sorry for you.

If you recall my problems in this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6432) you could notice that Castellen (http://www.amiga.org/userinfo.php?uid=424) seems to be very well informed in the topic, mayby he could help?
I think I've seen also some other topic, when someone offered his help in repairing some other's guy board, but unluckilly I cannot recall neither the thread, nor the nicks...

I also fully agree with Acill about measuring any equipment connected to any board - unless you are The Master Of The Power and you can order the electricity to go only through the specified element on the board. ;-)

On the other hand - you have the trouble that ppc.library is not existing - mayby your flash simply lost the contents - tried to reflash it? (Just guessing).

Keeping my fingers crossed. :-)
PiR
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 09, 2004, 06:52:59 PM
Hi PiR

thanks to you too :-)

CSPPC hasn't the ppc.library in Flashrom (like BlizzardPPC) but to be 100% sure, yesterday i've reflashed it anyway (latest version) ;-)

Thanks again for the info

Ciao

PS- yes i know Castellen and (to be honest) i really hoped in his help/suggestion (probably he is out for vacation)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 10, 2004, 12:58:14 PM
Hi again,

someone, knows why amiga.fr site is down? at least to know the e-mail address?

Which is the nickname, of the Amiga.fr owner here?

Cheers



Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Cyberus on August 10, 2004, 01:09:00 PM
I think voxel knows him
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 10, 2004, 01:18:06 PM
oh well, Cyberus . . .thanks :-)

Have you tryed to go to amiga.fr?

Ciao :-)

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Cyberus on August 10, 2004, 01:26:07 PM
amiga.fr doesn't load :-(

but it was working only two or three days ago - I visited the site at the end of last week.

voxel knows Jean-Jacques from Amiga.fr - see this thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7583)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Crusher on August 10, 2004, 01:31:45 PM
I've mailed them, waiting for an answer.  :-)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: CodePoet on August 10, 2004, 02:49:35 PM
I've never owned one of those cards... actually i've never owned anything more powerful than a 4mb+68881 expansion for the 1200 lol

I do know however, during repairs on older models of gigabyte boards; they used 6v caps on 5v rails, after a surge they appared as short-circuit when tested. When removed they were still short circuit. Got to a point when I removed every electrolytic / tantalum / monolythic cap from the board (just for laughs), re-tested between the 5v rail and ground :: STILL SHORT! turned out two power FETs died.

thought i'd just throw that in :-D

On another note, alot of problems with phase5 boards seem to be linked to dry joints, anyone ever tried reflowing those boards using a reflower/rework station? I'd start off by looking up datasheets for the (suspected) failing micros and checking for power at their vcc/vss pins

Best of luck though :-)
 
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 10, 2004, 10:30:52 PM
Hi CodePoet

yes i agree.

The best thing is remove the tantalium capacitor, and test it out the board.

The only hope, is that it is really shorted :-)

I've already tested (all the doable) for dry joints during a previous repair for the damn 060 socket (fixed)

Thanks for the suggestions :-)

PS- i've downloaded and read (ugh!!) the datasheets of the 604e.

The PowerOn sequence is:

GND-> Vdd (core voltage= 1.9 or 2.5v) -> OVdd (I/O voltage=3.3v)

The PowerOFF sequence is:

OVdd-> Vdd-> GND

Now the dubt is, that i have 2 odd values for the Core voltage:

IBM- 1.9v
Motorola- 2.5v

I'll check if are present.
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Crusher on August 11, 2004, 12:48:06 PM
Regarding Amiga Repair Center France, their site is down for the moment. They are working on it and it will come up as soon as possible. :-)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 11, 2004, 12:53:28 PM
Thanks a lot, Crusher :-)

 
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Crusher on August 11, 2004, 01:22:13 PM
np :-)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2004, 12:01:55 PM
Hi all,

i'm still investigate from a software POV.

What is used for the "card.resource"?

Should it be present even on an A4000 KS? or it is A1200 PCMCIA related?

If exists, is it used by the CSPPC? (note that the CS works perfectly with the 060-RAM-SCSI).

Cheers

EDIT- the CSPPC card, is recognized in the Early Boot (Amiga) and has the CS Early setup fully working too (just upgraded to the latest version)
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: PiR on August 13, 2004, 05:59:11 PM
card.resource is for PCMCIA handling
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: x56h34 on August 13, 2004, 06:10:40 PM
Could it be that he's got A1200 roms in his A4000?
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: patrik on August 13, 2004, 06:25:10 PM
@x56h34:

Yeah, it sounds like that. When I ran a 'version card.resource' on my A4000D with Kickstart3.1/Workbench3.1 it just says 'object not found'.


(edit):

Tried both the A1200 and A4000 3.1 ROM in WinUAE. If I ran 'version card.resource', it said 'card.resource 40.4' with the A1200 3.1 ROM and 'object not found' with the A4000 3.1 ROM. In other words it seems correct that the A4000 ROM shouldnt have the card.resource.


/Patrik
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: x56h34 on August 13, 2004, 06:29:25 PM
@Patrik:

I'll try to do the same when I get back home from work and see what my A4000 roms report. An easy way of checking out of what is present and what is not, is by running SysInfo, as it's got a list of all the existing resources/devices/libraries/etc.
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2004, 09:08:02 PM
Hi All,

no, no no . .  .stop the press :-)

I've asked for the card.resource, because i've seen some apps ask for it (SnoopDos).

As never said :-)

Ciao



Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 13, 2004, 09:10:10 PM
Quote
by patrik on 2004/8/13 19:25:10

@x56h34:

Yeah, it sounds like that. When I ran a 'version card.resource' on my A4000D with Kickstart3.1/Workbench3.1 it just says 'object not found'.

yes the same here.

Mine was only a question about this resource.

Never had an A1200

Thanks

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 24, 2004, 02:12:20 PM
Hi Patrik,

i've found a defective IC but i'm not be able, to find it (to some dealerlike RS-Distrelec)

The IC (2) are 8 pins SMD SO8 package with marked:

4410
W748

They "seems" op-amp LM748 but i'm not 100% sure.

Can someone help me to know if are the right one?

Thanks a lot

BTW . . .Patrik, have you received back your CSPPC from Amiga.fr?
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: patrik on August 24, 2004, 09:10:11 PM
@Framiga:

I first have some questions:

1. If you place the CyberStormPPC upside-down with the side with the fastslot-connector facing you, is it the two circuits in SO8 package to the left, just above the fastslot-connector?

2. Are both of the two circuits identical with 4410 and W748 printed on them?

3. May I ask how you know that they are defective?


If it is the two circuits I think it is (see question 1.), these two circuits are missing on the CyberStormMK3 so they for sure are support-circuits for the PPC604e.

It doesnt feel like and op-amp would be needed for anything on a CyberStormPPC, it seems more probable that these two circuits are 4410 field-effect transistors in a surface mount version, used to create the 2.5V core-voltage for the PPC604e. Here (http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/si4410dy.pdf) you can find a 4410 field-effect transistor datasheet. If this is the case, you can order them here (http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?vat=0&dok=3888.htm).

I still havent got my CyberStormPPC back :(.


/Patrik
Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 24, 2004, 10:20:21 PM
Hi Patrik

yes they are the right one :-)

Togheter the LTC1430CS (voltage PWM switching regulator and soft start/shoutdown), they supply/regulate the core voltage to the 604e.

LTC1430CS (http://www.linear.com/pdf/1430fa.pdf)

One of the 2, is in short (desoldered and tested)

Thanks a lot for the help

Cheers

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 25, 2004, 04:02:10 PM
the new URL of Amiga.fr is:

http://www.bourgogne-informatique.com/Homer.html

Bye

Title: Re: 604e . . . gone for summer holidays?
Post by: Framiga on August 25, 2004, 04:02:15 PM
:-) sorry double post