Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: kedawa on July 30, 2004, 06:26:56 PM
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I've been thinking about buying a PPC computer, and I don't really want a mac, so I'm considering getting either an AmigaOne or a Pegasos motherboard. The problem is that I'm not really clear on which OS's each system supports. I'm assuming that both run PPCLinux and OSX(via MacOnLinux), but I'd appreciate verification of this.
What I'm primarily concerned with is whether or not it is possible to run MorphOS on an A1 or AOS4 on Pegasos. For that matter, is there any way to run AOS4 or Morphos on a Mac?
The reason I want to know all this is that I want a computer that will let me play with as many exotic OS's as possible. I'm not looking to replace my PC or anything like that.
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...and the instructions go on to read, "Having ignited the blue touch paper, stand well back..." ;-)
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Morphos -> Pegasos only (maybe a Mos on Mac kinda idea in the future if I remember Bill Buck correctly). Tho MOS can be made to run on an AmigaONE I don't think anybody outside the MOS development team has done/seen that.
A version for the classic Amiga (with PPC card) line might still be possible tho I believe the decided against that not so long ago..
AmigaOS4 -> AmigaONE and classic Amiga (with PPC card). Definatly no version for the Pegasos (Pegasos 2 is I think definatly a no go (different chip set) Pegasos 1 is rather alike the AmigaONE so people could hack it I guess). Don't hold your breath for a Mac version..
Both boards can run Linux, but I think the Peg is able to run more different kinds of Linux. IIRC a BeOS version was to be made for the Pegasos as wel, but I haven't read anything about that in a log time..
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@kedawa
If you want to be able to run OS4, your choice is limited to the AmigaOne or a classic Amiga with PPC accelerator. There is no plans to port OS4 to any other platform. There is also no plans to port MorphOS to the AmigaOne.
The reason I want to know all this is that I want a computer that will let me play with as many exotic OS's as possible.
If that's the case then your choice will be very easy. Buy a Pegasos II PPC board. The AmigaOne is only supporting OS4. There is a handfull of Linux builds for the AmigaOne, but they all suffer from a lack of DMA support and this will not change ever. The Pegasos II has numerous *nix distros with full official support and MorphOS. Other OSes like QNX are rumored to be just around the corner
By the way, welcome to Amiga.org. Please note your questions may be a hot topic and may start some bickering. Everyone has opinions and are very opinionated:-)
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Neither MOS or OS4 will work on a Mac. OS4 will not work on Pegasos, and MOS will not work on AmigaONE. These things you can be sure of, unless there is a titanic change in direction.
As for Linux and BSD, most distros will run on A1, Pegasos and Mac. However, no kernels are adapted for Articia 'features' so on A1 you'll have to disable IDE UDMA - making Linux *very* slow. You can also run MacOS on MOL on either A1 or Pegasos.
Pegasos is designed and marketed to run as many OS's as possible. AmigaONE is targetted only at OS4 at the moment, and considerably more expensive.
Edit: boo, Red got there first. ;-)
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OT
KennyR wrote:
Edit: boo, Red got there first. ;-)
How it should be :-P
But seriously, I am just popping the cork on the virtual champagne bottle for my 6000th post, and you are knocking on the door of 7000 :-o There's something wrong with this picture :lol:
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redrumloa wrote:
But seriously, I am just popping the cork on the virtual champagne bottle for my 6000th post, and you are knocking on the door of 7000 :-o There's something wrong with this picture :lol:
Pity us mere provincials :lol:
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But seriously, I am just popping the cork on the virtual champagne bottle for my 6000th post, and you are knocking on the door of 7000. There's something wrong with this picture.
Indeed, you both have too much time at hand :-P
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Thanks for the input, I'll definitely look into the Pegasos II more seriously, although it will probably be several months before I buy anything.
I'm surprised that OSX runs on other PPCs, but MorphOS and AOS4 don't, since OSX was also meant to run on proprietary hardware. Is there some major technical issue in the way, or just not enough interest?
btw, I'm really surprised at how quickly I got replies on this thread. I thought an Amiga forum would be a ghost town! I'm glad to see there's still active amiga users out there.
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There is no plans to port OS4 to any other platform.
Says who?
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Rogue wrote:
There is no plans to port OS4 to any other platform.
Says who?
Oh really?? I'm all ears!
BTW my A4000PPC is waiting anxiously for OS4!
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Karlos wrote:
...and the instructions go on to read, "Having ignited the blue touch paper, stand well back..." ;-)
beautifully put :-)
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@kedawa
I can't believe I'm about to say this, but if you want to be able to play with as many OS's/distros as possible, I might be inclined to stick with x86 instead, for now. Cheaper than any PPC-alternative, so by the time PPC makes a real leap in the market a few years down the line, it mightn't be entirely impossible to get a mobo at a more consumer-ready price. I wouldn't swear by it though, but I wouldn't entirely rule it out. In a few years. If we are to assume that the PPC might actually grab a fair share of the market, then prices ought to drop a bit.
And, if AmigaOS / MorphOS and their respective hardware are nothing more than niche OS'es catering for a few 1000 users in a few years time, I woulnd't bet on either of them having a very bright future.
Something to think about, maybe. Unless you're a complete fanatic, and want something Amiga'ish right now, preferably yesterday. ;-)
Then again, if your PC isn't in desperate need of something to replace it, and you just want to spend some cash on fun computing, as a hobby, diving into the alternative computing flora, I can definitely see where you're coming from.
As for alternatives to OS'es, from what I've read, I think the PegII seems like a better choice. Though someone else would have to tell you what they are. I do know that I have Debian running on my AmigaOne, and there are quite a few A1 users who've got MOL running. But that's true within the Peg community too.
I do think you should put a bit more thought into the possibility of running AOS/MOS as your main OS on the machine, as that's the only really huge advantage of going A1/Peg over any other alternative. (Unless you plan on buying a bunch of hundred boards and are concerned about power consumption :-P)
And for that purpose, I'd advice you to check both of them out a bit further before making up your mind (unless you already know you'd prefer one over the other).
With that said, I myself am a happy owner of the A1, and am currently using the pre-release of OS4 as my main OS. I occasionally boot into Debian for some GIMP'ing or word processing, but apart from that, OS4 along with a few of the apps I've installed does fulfill most of my daily needs.
I'm sure there's a bunch of MOS-users who could step up and say something similar about MorphOS, though. So, again, I'd strongly recommend checking both OS'es out to see which one feels more like home to you.
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Oh really?? I'm all ears!
All I'm saying is that you don't really know what is planned ;-)
BTW my A4000PPC is waiting anxiously for OS4!
Argh... I feel it.. I can't stop it... it's coming...
[color=FF0000]When it's done[/color]
:-D
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What I'm primarily concerned with is whether or not it is possible to run MorphOS on an A1 or AOS4 on Pegasos. For that matter, is there any way to run AOS4 or Morphos on a Mac?
The reason I want to know all this is that I want a computer that will let me play with as many exotic OS's as possible. I'm not looking to replace my PC or anything like that.
If it's just for playing around with different OSs then the Pegasos has a bunch of different OSs either running or in development, at the moment it's MorphOS and a number of Linux distros (and MacOnLinux) but Haiku (formally OpenBeOS), Zeta, QNX, NewOS and several more should appear at some point. (I used to work for the folks selling the Pegasos and was the one organising this, I'm not sure of their status at this point though).
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OS4 does not run on Pegasos but my understanding is that it's a question of licensing. As to whether anyone will ever do the licensing is another question altogether.
MorphOS will not run on the AmigaONE, it did run on a previous version of the same board (I've even seen it) but the BIOS is different now so it would need modified to run, I don't expect those changes will be made.
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I'm sure someone else can fill you in on the AmigaONE details.
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Rogue wrote:
Argh... I feel it.. I can't stop it... it's coming...
I told you not to have the extra hot vindaloo... :-)
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redrumloa wrote:
@kedawa
There is a handfull of Linux builds for the AmigaOne, but they all suffer from a lack of DMA support and this will not change ever.
Also I think this statement is inaccurate. It was made clear to the A1 kernel developers that all new changes should go into 2.6. So DMA won't work fully on 2.4 kernels ever that's right.
And from what I understand some people are looking into making new drivers for the Articia chipset for the 2.6 kernel. Only it is happening at a very slow pace.
Staf.
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So I guess it really comes down to whether I want MorphOS or OS4 then, right?
I'm not really sure which I would prefer at this point. I'm not planning on running any older amiga software, so I don't really care about that aspect of it.
What I really want is a machine that has at least one OS that is mature enough to do everyday tasks (web browsing, a bit of C programming, some basic graphics editing, etc.) and several other OS's to dink around with.
I would also like to run some sort of classic amiga emulator, as well, just so I can play the games that I had as a kid, when I had an A500.
As I said, I'm not looking to replace my windows box just yet, but I do want to branch out a bit, and perhaps switch over entirely some time in the future.
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"So I guess it really comes down to whether I want MorphOS or OS4 then, right?
I'm not really sure which I would prefer at this point. I'm not planning on running any older amiga software, so I don't really care about that aspect of it. What I really want is a machine that has at least one OS that is mature enough to do everyday tasks (web browsing, a bit of C programming, some basic graphics editing, etc.) and several other OS's to dink around with."
Well that made it very easy then: neither MorphOS or OS4 is for you, as you can't live even a day without old Amiga software.
Linux would be your choise then, on the other hand that is {bleep}e on A1, so we come to the conclusion that Pegasos is for you. Njet.
From there we continue and remember that you can run Linux on x86 much cheaper and better, so there you go. And as a bonus you can also run Win Xp if you want.
Your choice is everyday home-pc.
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Well he says he doesn't want to replace his windows box... PegasOS and AmigaOne are pretty similiar really, OS4 is only out as a prerelease (but thatt's free on the upside). MorphOS is free with the computer, and is on version 1.4? 1.5?. Both have support for Linux. There is a DMA issue right now with the AmigaOne board but as far as I know that's being fixed, Eyetech don't want that as they are trying to sell the boards for Linux, much as the pegasos boards are being sold as linux machines. Outside of those two OSs I don't know what the AmigaOne supports, but pegasos supports a few different OSs for sure. The G4 pegasos is 1GHz and the G3 is 600MHz, AmigaOne XEs are both 800MHz (G3 and G4). Pegasos has some onboard bits that MorphOS doesn't support, same as the AmigaOne and OS4. There seems to be more publicly stated development for the PegasOS. Both use IDE drive controllers with PCI slots. Judge for yourself which is better 8-) .
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The Pegasos is the choice for you hands down. As a Pegasos user and owner I cay that. I've used an A1 and linux is not supported nearly as well as it is on the Pegasos II. The pegasos is now supplied and used by Freescale (Used to be the semiconductor division of Motorola) as PPC dev machines and is also a partner with IBM now with many others comming on soon. Its got masive linux support. The whole concept of the Pegasos is designed to be open to as many OS choices as possible. Its a fantastic machine.
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Hooligan_DCS wrote:
Well that made it very easy then: neither MorphOS or OS4 is for you, as you can't live even a day without old Amiga software.
Linux would be your choise then, on the other hand that is {bleep}e on A1, so we come to the conclusion that Pegasos is for you. Njet.
From there we continue and remember that you can run Linux on x86 much cheaper and better, so there you go. And as a bonus you can also run Win Xp if you want.
Your choice is everyday home-pc.
I see your point, but I also would like to run OSX at least some of the time, and I can't do that on x86. If neither OS4 nor morphos are appropriate for everyday use, then I'll just be using OSX more often, I suppose.
btw, I didn't realise that there's such a lack of native software for MorphOS and OS4. I guess I'll have to track down some older amiga apps if and when I setup one of these OS's.
The one concern I have at this point is that the Pegasos II apparently doesn't have USB 2.0 onboard, so I'm wondering if MorphOS has support for it. If so, which chipsets have drivers available?
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The native stuff is mostly 'in progress' - the Peg comes with a bundle of native software (mostly in 'lite' form), but using old programs on either Peg or OS4 works well, apparently.
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There is no plans to port OS4 to any other platform.
If you believe what Mr Hare tells us about AmigaOS running on mobile devices, then OS4 will have to be ported to ARM (99.9% of all mobile devices being ARM).
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Well, it's been over a year since I first posted this thread, and I still don't have a Pegasos or an A1.
My x86 machine was stolen, so I caved in and bought a Mac mini, which is more than adequate for messing around with BSD and linux, at least for me.
Anyway, my interest in the Amiga was recently rekindled after procuring some classic Amigas for a customer, and reading an article about the A1 Micro (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/amiga.ars).
I'm now very interested in building a new Amiga for a hobby machine.
I've been out of touch with the Amiga scene for the last year, and I've recently begun trying to catch up on what's been going on.
It's my understanding that there isn't much happening with MorphOS anymore, and AOS4 is finally nearing completion, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
The Pegasos II seems to be the same spec as it was a year ago, but I've read that a newer Peg mobo is in the works.
The thing is, I don't think I'd have much use for one, as I already have a similarly capable PPC system, and MorphOS has lost much of its appeal for me if it is in fact 'dead.'
The A1, on the other hand, is far more tempting to me than it was a year ago. The A1 micro's mini-ITX form factor and onboard video and audio make it a perfect fit for one of those cube-shaped SFF cases.
I do have a few specific questions, though.
Are the pricing and availability of the A1 likely to improve a lot after AOS4 is released?
How is the USB keyboard/mouse support in the firmware and also in the OS itself?
Lastly (I think), are there any vendors in North America offering complete A1 micro systems?
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@kedawa
It's my understanding that there isn't much happening with MorphOS anymore, and AOS4 is finally nearing completion, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, this needs to be corrected. MorphOS is far from dead.
Latest public releases include release of MorphOS 1.4.5 for PowerUP (http://powerup.morphos-team.net/) and 3D driver update (http://3d.morphos-team.net/).
The work continues on MorphOS, like before. We're just not advertising features and release before release actually happens (like it has always been for us).
Considering the hardware: Yes, Mac Mini provides better CPU specs than Peg II, however, Peg II is in my knowlege the best upgradable and affordable PPC system for now. Peg II is available and has proper guarantee (with track record of working guarantee repairs by the manufacturer).
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I suspected that might be the case, but it's hard to find information on Morrphos for some reason. Google only returnred four results when I searched for it.
I guess the Pegasos/MorphOS option is still on the table. :-)
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kedawa wrote:
AOS4 is finally nearing completion
Yes, according to rumours I've heard, it's "almost done" "99% complete" and "nearly finished".
The A1, on the other hand, is far more tempting to me than it was a year ago. The A1 micro's mini-ITX form factor and onboard video and audio make it a perfect fit for one of those cube-shaped SFF cases.
Absolutely. It is certainly a fantastic piece of hardware. I think many people in the PC world could learn a thing or two from Eyetech's hardware engineers.
Are the pricing and availability of the A1 likely to improve a lot after AOS4 is released?
Yes, absolutely because when OS4 is released to the public then people will see that Amiga is alive again and many millions of ex-Amigans and new users will come flocking back to the platform, buying up AmigaOne boards like hot cakes.
This will enable Eyetech's engineers to reduce costs due to higher volume, and so the cost of the boards to the end user will come down.
I have also read Fleecy mention that Amiga Inc. have been in discussions with some big High Street names who are interested in stocking the A1, so we can expect to be seeing Micro-A1 systems in Dixons, Currys, Comet, PC World etc before too long. This will bring the Amiga the mass-market exposure that it needs.
How is the USB keyboard/mouse support in the firmware and also in the OS itself?
USB works perfectly on A1. anyone saying otherwise is just spreading FUD.
Lastly (I think), are there any vendors in North America offering complete A1 micro systems?
Maybe software hut.
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@Lando
Whatever happened to you :-(
@kedawa
Perhaps www.IntuitionBase.com might be of use to you?
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...I think many people in the PC world could learn a thing or two from Eyetech's hardware engineers.
LOL!
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@lando:
You're taking the piss right? :-).
If not....in what alternate reality do you live? (I mean....A1 at Dixons' stores? :crazy:).
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so you finally got the mac then... good choice :)
________
MEDICAL CANNABIS (http://medicalmarijuana.us/)
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Yeah, I'm pretty happy with my mac.
I've only been messing around with live distros so far, since I don't want to wipe OSX and I haven't gotten an external drive yet.
For now, I think I'll stick to the wait-and-see approach with the A1.
Hopefully by early '06 the price will be a bit easier to swallow and the OS will be ready.
BTW, Has anyone else had trouble with the ISO of the native i386 port of AROS?
I have an old K6-266 collecting dust in my apartment, and I figured I'd give AROS a try, but I can't get the ISO extracted on my mac.
EDIT: Nevermind, I just had a corrupt download. It took me three attempts, but I finally got it.
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Try these sites:
MorphOS info:
http://www.morphzone.org
Mostly OS4:
http://www.amigaworld.net
http://www.intuitionbase.com (Already posted but just to make it easier to reference)
I am sure there are others, but this should help you find more information.
C Snyder
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I actually poked around those sites before I revived this thread, but there just doesn't seem to be that much new info out there to begin with.
Most of the news I've found on MorphOS and OS4 is either speculation or technical info that just goes over my head.
I realize that it's going to take some time to wrap my head around things, but it's a bit baffling that neither OS has a dedicated, official website.
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However, no kernels are adapted for Articia 'features' so on A1 you'll have to disable IDE UDMA - making Linux *very* slow.
Please tell that to my A1 :lol:
Ide works with the kernels at http://amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net/ .
with either a fixed VIA ide-controller, or
(as in my machine, )with the Silicon Image 0680 ide-controller.
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@kedawa
As allready said in the thread, if you want to run OS4, get an AmigaOne or the new Amy-board ( http://www.troikang.com ), that are about to go on sale soon.
If you want to run MorphOS, get Peg2.
If you primarily want to run Linux on PPC, on non Mac-hardware, get a Peg2, since the Peg has a lot better Linux-support than the AmigaOne has.
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Just based on specifications, I see no reason to choose the Amy over the micro.
Unless there's a significant difference in price, which there might be since I'm in Canada and not Europe, I don't see the advantage.
Being able to use vanilla SDRAM in the Amy is nice, but AFAIK, all eyetech boards ship with memory anyway, so it's a moot point.
On a side note, I've started messing around with AROS on an old x86 machine that I had laying around.
After the initial struggle to get the native port installed onto the HD, I'm having a blast with it, and I could see this thing keeping me busy until OS4 hits.
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The Amy board uses a much better chipset than the A1 which makes up for the lack
features IMO. The Amy should also be MUCH cheaper if their projected estimates
are correct ($400 vs $800-$900 for microA1). The biggest problem for microA1 is
availability. For some it has been an act of God just to get one.
C Snyder
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billchase wrote:
The Amy board uses a much better chipset than the A1 which makes up for the lack
features IMO. The Amy should also be MUCH cheaper if their projected estimates
are correct ($400 vs $800-$900 for microA1). The biggest problem for microA1 is
availability. For some it has been an act of God just to get one.
C Snyder
The projected price is actually £400, which is around $708. But they haven't stated whether this includes OS4, or the $100-per-board "name tax / license fee" which Eyetech has to pay Amiga Inc on each board. So it could go up quite a lot.
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Actually, someone from Troika posted on another site that they'd like to get the price to be around US$400, and that the £400 estimate is a sort of worst case scenario.
Hopefully having two different hardware vendors for the platform will drive down prices to the point that it'll be cheaper to build an Amiga than it would be to buy a Mac.
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The projected price is actually £400, which is around $708. But they haven't stated whether this includes OS4, or the $100-per-board "name tax / license fee" which Eyetech has to pay Amiga Inc on each board. So it could go up quite a lot.
Look in the FAQ on their site. It is more recent than the
comparison chart figures.
C Snyder
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But they haven't stated whether this includes OS4, or the $100-per-board "name tax / license fee" which Eyetech has to pay Amiga Inc on each board.
Gurumeditation stated that the price includes OS4. :-)