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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Lodbro on July 20, 2004, 10:32:55 PM
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i want a better graphics card for my a3k, what's good and where can i get it?
i've heard that the cybervision 64 cards are good... anything else? :-?
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running a cv64 here on an a4000, stable and usable :-) afaik the only availible cybervision is the cv64-3d. else you have to go for a pci solution.
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Since you have an A3000 I'd sugest either CV64 (S3 Trio 64) or PicassoIV (Cirrus Logic GD5446) Zorro graphic card (the CV64/3D (S3 ViRGE or S3 ViRGE DX) is also excelent but lacks passthrough for native graphic).
If you need more speed than that then there's the Prometheus PCI solusion with a Voodoo3 2000/3000 PCI graphic card which is far better.
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Hi Lodbro,
i want a better graphics card for my a3k
You should also consider the GVP EGS 28/24 Spectrum card. It is a very nice video board and goes beyond AGA. This board can use the EGS drivers, Picasso drivers, and the CyberVision drivers. It comes with 1 or 2 megs of video memory, supports 8-bit, 16-bit, and 24-bit graphics modes, and has a pass-thru for the Commodore A2320 Amber board (includes the cable). Your Amiga 3000 computer has the A2320 Amber board circuitry built in. So just plug one end of the cable to the Amiga 3000's VGA out and the other end to the Spectrum board's video in. As with all video cards, you need a very fast processor, lots of 32-bit memory, and 2 megs of Chip Ram. Lodbro, there are many kinds of video boards available for the Amiga 3000, not just Picasso and CyberVision. So, do not get caught up in the Picasso and CyberVision HYPE! Do your homework, like I have, and pick a video board that best suits YOUR needs. :-)
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@Lodbro
Depends what you need out of it. I am obviously very biased to the Prometheus, with it you can use a PCI Virge (same chip as CV64-3D), Permedia II(same chip as CV-PPC) or Voodoo 3/4/5.
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@ Lodbro
Zorro graphics cards can be expensive to buy, unless you get a result on EBay.
You might want to try the Mediator PCI busboard for your A3K. You'll probably need to mount your system in a larger case to fit, but you'll have access to a wealth of PCI cards at a fraction of the cost of their Zorro equivalent.
A Mediator board has drivers for PCI Voodoo cards from the Banshee right the way up to a Voodoo 5. You can also fit Soundblaster, 10 / 100 Ethernet and USB cards to your Mediator system so they're well worth consideration as in terms of performance the Voodoo range is way ahead of anything currently avilable on the classic Amiga line.
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BoingBoss wrote:
It comes with 1 or 2 megs of video memory, supports 8-bit, 16-bit, and 24-bit graphics modes...
Precisely why you should give this card a miss. 2MB of VRAM is nothing. A single 1024x768x16-bit screen will eat 75% of that in one go, assuming this card can even cope with that resolution at a bearable refresh rate.
Open a few screens and they have to be paged in and out of VRAM which means screen switching takes longer. Add to this the fact there is next to no hardware acceleration for drawing operations with this card and you are left with a very lacklustre piece of hardware that's little more than a VGA framebuffer.
Get a *real* graphics card with at the very least 4MB memory and a RAMDAC capable of at least 75Hz refresh for your target resolution.
Your eyes will love you for it.
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Yeah... I wouldn't reccomend that card either. It belongs to a big group of Zorro graphiccards out there that one spends max 15-25$ on to have "something" until one get the "right thing".
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Hi Karlos,
Below are some of the specs for this board:
15-75 kHz horizontal frequency
up to 200 Hz vertical frequency
Karlos, do not take this the wrong way, but you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to this video card.
Since most normal people have their Amiga 2000 and 3000 computer screen resolution set at 640 X 480 or 800 X 600, this board works really well and does what it is suppose to do. I have mine set at 640 X 480, 16.7 million colors and it works great. I have never had any problems with it. The only thing is that you have to have 2 megs of Chip Ram, a fast processor, and at least 8 megs of 32-bit memory to use this board in true-color mode. If you have this board set to 8-bit or 16-bit mode then it will work just fine in a stock Amiga 2500 computer. Also, the GVP EGS Spectrum board works very well with Commodore's A2320 Amber board and even comes with a cable for that board. The A2320 is one of the best flicker-fixer / scan-doubler boards ever made. Karlos, I agree with you when you say that there are better video boards for the Amiga, but they cost a lot more money too. The GVP EGS Spectrum video board is a great choice for the average Amiga user. Maybe you are above average and have an above average wallet. :-D
Get a *real* graphics card with at the very least 4MB memory
According to AmigaWorld magazine, it is better to have a 2-meg video board then a 4-meg video board. When I find the article, I will post it. :-D
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Hi Brian,
Keep in mind that the video standards for the Classic Amiga computer are the following:
GVP EGS Spectrum
Picasso
CyberVision
So, as long as a person has one of these video boards in their Classic Amiga, they are doing great. If a person wants PCI slots then get a PC computer. A "true" Amiga computer does NOT have PCI slots. :roll:
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I should think the Spectrum28/24 card is one of those cards thats just a bit better than the amigas internal video i.e lets you have a bit better screen but no speed and no mem, it doesn't look much gumph.
I have a Picasso II lurking somewhere that I'll test out when I find a cheep amiga, I'm not expecting much but I should think its similar to the spectrum, a bit {bleep}ty but it'll do.
Anyone have an opinion on the PII? other than "it's {bleep}" of course
If you're looking for a graphics card now there are often cv64s going on ebay for peanuts.
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I whole heartedly recommend the Cybervision 64! 1. It is faster than any card except maybe the Picass IV, and 2. It complements the Amiga 3000 very well, as it integrates nicely with the built-in Scan Doubler/Flicker Fixer. You simply daisy chain the supplied cable to the VGA port on the 3000, and you have a 1 monitor solution. If you were to get a Cybervision 64/3D without the Scan Doubler you would not be able to view native screens without a monitor switcher. Not sure on the GVP Spectrum, but the CV64 is faster. I use one in my 3000 system and it rocks.
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@BoingBoss
:lol:
I was so waiting for that "you do not know what you are talking about when..." :-D
As for the specifications, instead of quoting the maximum rates, how about telling us what the maximum refresh rates are for the highest supported resolution in the largest number of colours?
I ask this because IMHO your arguments for supporting this card are not valid. Nobody really uses 640x480 unless they are have to. Just browse the gallery of workbench screenshots in this very site if you don't believe me.
The whole point of owning graphics card, over the native display is
1) You get higher spatial resolutions without interlacing
2) You get faster refresh rates
3) You get greater colour depths
4) You get faster GUI rendering etc.
Im not saying that the card is crap, if it fulfills your requirements then power to you. The question is, is it suitable for everybody?
Your point about the expense, however I accept. But it is also the case that you get what you pay for. If the GVP costs half as much as a CV64, but the CV64 is on eBay for a reasonable (as determined by your budget) price, I wouldn't opt for the cheaper card *just* because it is half the price.
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BTW, I wish I did have an "above average wallet", that's for sure :-D Seriously, cards like the CV64 goes on eBay for silly money these days. Youd have to get the GVP for next to free for it to be worth it ;-)
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@lorddef
The Spectrum should provide similar performance to the Picasso II/II+ since they share the same chipset. The Spectrum might have a slight advantage on a Zorro 3 machine (because the Picasso is Z2 only).
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I have a Cybervision64 in my A3000 is is a really good card and very fast. The passthru for the native screens is transparent in use. It is alot faster than the Picasso 2 I had. A Buster 11 is recommended for full speed-dma. It is faster than the CV64/3d, about the same speed as the Picasso 4. It is supproted by CGX and P96. I run it in 1152x864 @ 16bit. It is also Zorro 3 and along with my Cyberstorm 060, even Quake 1 runs impressively!
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Whats the Cybevision 64 card going for these days? I paid $150 for mine 3 years ago on eBay...
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@ BoingBoss,
You are wrong. I have both a Spectrum AND a Picasso IV card in my B2000 monster, with 2 identical monitors. The best the Spectrum can manage in 24 bit is 800 x 600, the PicIV can do 1280 x 1024 easy, and its faster.
Chris
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Hi QuikSanz,
You are wrong. I have both a Spectrum AND a Picasso IV card in my B2000 monster, with 2 identical monitors. The best the Spectrum can manage in 24 bit is 800 x 600, the PicIV can do 1280 x 1024 easy, and its faster.
So, what am I wrong about? I never said anything about the GVP EGS Spectrum board being better or faster then a Picasso IV card. QuikSanz, think before you speak! :-x
I will be buying both a Picasso IV and a CyberVision board when the prices go down a little more. I should be able to pick both up for less then $50.00 each in about another year or two. Afterall, all of you guys want an AmigaOne, right? So, you will be selling your old boards on eBay. Nobody will want them and the market will be flooded with them. At that time I will be able to buy them real cheap. I plan to keep my vintage Amiga and Atari ST computers for at least another 30 years. I am already stocking up on spare parts and DS/DD disks. :-D
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@ BoingBoss,
"Since most normal people have their Amiga 2000 and 3000 computer screen resolution set at 640 X 480 or ..."
Amiga people are not exactly normal. My monitors are a little bigger than most. 800 x 600 is a MINIMUM res. Karlos is right.
Chris
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I'm currently running AGA in NTSC 724×482 maximum overscan and it's a
very bizarre and yet comfortable environment.
I use a Scandoubler/Flicker-Fixer and get 60Hz vertical refresh and
I'm somewhere between 640×480 and a Widescreen ratio.
NTSC is worth trying for AGA owners, PAL is very flickery in
comparison.
With regards to GFX cards, I remember reading all the reviews in Amiga
Format and I'd have to say I would never choose a CyberVision64 or
CyberVision64-3D over a Picasso IV.
Amiga Format really didn't like the Phase5 graphics cards because they
ignored the custom chips, basically making you get 2x monitors or a
switcher. The CyberVision's scandoubler module got slated in Amiga
Format for some reason.
In my opinion the Picasso-IV is the best graphics card on Amiga,
including the PCI Voodoo cards. I really don't like these poorly
supported PCI boards that no software utilises other than the
occasional PD enhancement.
Far better to enjoy Workbench on a P-IV with TV through,
flicker-fixing of your classic software, video in, video out,
integrated soundcard and all in one little package.
I bet everyone is suggesting the CV64 because they want to pick up a
Picasso 4 bargain.
;-) ;-) ;-)
BoingBoss: You'll never see Picasso-IV flooding the market as everyone
loves them and once people install them they don't seem to want to
sell them. When your average boxed one goes on eBay you're looking at
$400.
One thing I did wonder though, if the Picasso-IV uses the video slot
then how does it work with a Video Toaster?
:-o
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I had a GVP spectrum it was just fine, made me realize how slow AGA is, all of its modes are faster than 256 col AGA, used to run it at 1024x768 no problems. if you see one cheaper than any thing else dont pass it by. if its bang for your dosh you want.
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@Hyperspeed
IIRC the card uses a zorro 2 slot, the flicker fixer uses the video slot. In all Zorro 3 mobos, they have an inline Z3/Vid slot combo.
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I run my Cybervision 64/3D at 1152X864 on my A4000 and 1024X768 on my A3000 w/Cybervision 64. Both at 16Bit.
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16-Bit isn't my idea of the best colour mode. HAM8 can display 4x that
and it still looks uneven in gradients.
Good for a Workbench desktop, but do you really use 65,000 colour
icons? If you view pictures on your Workbench screen then you are
degrading the 24-bit ones.
I think either 8-Bit or 24-Bit would be my favourite.
I think most AGA users have to stick to 4-bit or 5-bit in a Hi-Res
Laced screenmode. 3-Bit would be ideal for MagicWB colour scheme
though.
I wish we had a small GFX card for desktop/console Amigas, fair enough
the Blizzard Vision PPC might be able to cram into a desktop case but
that's mighty risky and doesn't have the same integrated flicker-fixer
and scandoubling as a Picasso-IV.
Companies these days in the Amiga market forget about the 6 million
desktop users and prefer to make products for the big box or towered
A1200s that a very small percentage of people have.
How many A4000t's were made, 1,000!?
Towering isn't the answer to everything, I like my integrated keyboard
and motherboard A1200. Every conceivable add-on and hack was made for
it bar a GFX card!
:-(
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Ok:
Since I am looking for a good graphics card too for an A2500 that I am buying soon... where can one get a Picasso 4 used or otherwise? Will it hook to a standard SVGA monitor, this is going to be my personal challenge :-)
I have been following the thread and I know that I don't have a lot of scratch to throw at a video card, but still need one to do what I want which is give me 1024 x 768 at 24 bit color depth.
So is the Picasso 4 the card for me?
Thanks,
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Hi irishmike,
So is the Picasso 4 the card for me?
If you can afford it then get it. The Picasso 4 is actually a very nice board. You will need Kickstart 3.1 in order to set the Workbench to 256 colors. I had discovered this while working with my Amiga 2500 and 2000HD. My Amiga 2500 has Kickstart 3.1, so I could set the Workbench to 256 colors. But, my Amiga 2000HD has Kickstart 2.04, so I could NOT set the Workbench 2.1 to 256 colors. If anybody knows why this is, or how to correct it, please let me know.
Irishmike, the 256 color limit is only for Workbench (AGA Amigas have the same limit). You can still load up true color pictures, play mpegs, and use 24-bit paint programs. :-D
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Hi
I bought I a cv64/32 phase 5 version bout 3 years ago, and I paid £100 for it.
Gr8 card, not a touch on my bvison though.
But as already mentioned no native pass through which does get annoying
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kzin wrote:
I had a GVP spectrum it was just fine, made me realize how slow AGA is, all of its modes are faster than 256 col AGA, used to run it at 1024x768 no problems. if you see one cheaper than any thing else dont pass it by. if its bang for your dosh you want.
Not that it's relevent to this discussion, but I use 1600x1200x16-bit on my BVision at flicker free 75Hz refresh and its faster than AGA in PAL hires 16 colours :-D
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if u can find one, to use it with your 2500 u will have to break it in two. something to do with video slot positioning on the 2500. kinda scary...maybe u should go for the picasso II instead. as u have zorro 2 slots u won't get the best speed from the picasso 4 anyway.
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I have both a CV64 and a Cv64/3D with flicker-fixer on a Cyberstorm 68060 A4000. The CV64 is much quicker and even though I have to use a 1084 monitor as well as my 17"samtron I prefer the Cv64 over the Cv64/3d.
I have never seen a Picasso 4 in action but I have heard that speed-wise it is on par with the CV64. Does the Picasso 4 really have video in and out, as in video capture and output?
Oh the other thing is the software: i use CGX 4 because i think it is faster than P96, for the Phase 5 cards anyway. I also hate the way icons are redrawn and flicker if you drag them with the pointer with P96. I also think CGX mode is more flexible in setting up screen-modes than P96 Mode
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Hyperspeed wrote:
16-Bit isn't my idea of the best colour mode. HAM8 can display 4x that
and it still looks uneven in gradients.
Good for a Workbench desktop, but do you really use 65,000 colour
icons? If you view pictures on your Workbench screen then you are
degrading the 24-bit ones.
I defy anybody to tell the differnece between a high resolution dithered 16-bit display and 24-bit one in the same resolution on a CRT. For speed, most people set their picture.datatype to only use dithering on 8-bit screens. If you have OS3.9 and a PPC, of course it can do the dithering using WarpOS on the PPC and a 16-bit dithered image takes imperceptably longer to render than an undithered 24-bit one.
As for HAM8, sure it's great for images encoded in that format but is next to useless as a display format for general purpose work ;-)
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BoingBoss wrote:
According to AmigaWorld magazine, it is better to have a 2-meg video board then a 4-meg video board. When I find the article, I will post it. :-D
Please do, I'd be interested in why.
I cannot see one reason why someone would choose this card over a Voodoo.
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BoingBoss wrote:
Hi Brian,
Keep in mind that the video standards for the Classic Amiga computer are the following:
GVP EGS Spectrum
Picasso
CyberVision
Standard? Which standard?
So, as long as a person has one of these video boards in their Classic Amiga, they are doing great. If a person wants PCI slots then get a PC computer. A "true" Amiga computer does NOT have PCI slots. :roll:
Well, I certainly haven't sufferred any great calamity for having PCI in my system. On the contrary, it's provided me with access to reasonably priced sound cards, graphics cards and network cards with the option of TV if I so wish.
Why would an Amiga possibly be disadvantaged by having PCI?
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Whatever you decide, it might be worth waiting to see what Redrumloa is cooking up presently.
Looks like he's found a new set of teeth for the old dog ;-)
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Hi Karlos,
Whatever you decide, it might be worth waiting to see what Redrumloa is cooking up presently.
Do you get "kick-backs" or something?! :lol:
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BoingBoss wrote:
Do you get "kick-backs" or something?! :lol:
The penguin deserved it ...Muwahahahahaha! erm cough!
/hides
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Hey irishmike!
Yes, I think the Picasso-IV is the daddy of them all! As has been
mentioned it needs to be `snapped in half' for some older Amigas. I
believe VillageTronic perforated the board to make it easy to break
into 2x seperate modules.
... much like some A1200/A600 clockport/scandoublers have dual-module
solutions and funny triangular shapes!
;-)
Here are the Picasso-IV's external (seperately sold) extras:
Pablo IV - Video out
Paloma IV - Video in/capture
Concierto IV - Soundcard
Also a VillageTronic NIC (ethernet card) called `Ariadne' is highly
rated too.
Whilst a CyberVision 64 wouldn't be my first choice, the generally
lower prices means you can enjoy the highest speed for the lowest
prices (there's one on Amibench right now for £40/$70 USD).
With regards to the CyberVision 64's passthru, Eyetech sell a range of
monitor switcher modules that can be switched from 15Khz OCS/ECS/AGA
to 31KHz SVGA or higher modes with the press of the F10 key. I think a
lot of BVision users have them. And there is the standard
printer-sharer style external box too I think.
Carlos: What you say about dithered 16-Bit is interesting. By
dithering at a high resolution it gives you the impression of full
colours. However I can definately notice the difference between HAM8
and 24-Bit and that uses 256,000 colours as opposed to 65,536 that
16-Bit uses.
I know HAM8 has that funny colour-bleeding effect but it's a darn good
screenmode if you wish to use pictures via the viewer ViSAGE. That
program even has a tooltype called `SCALE' which super-speedily
compresses a 1600x1200 image to fit entirely on a 640x480 screen
without needing the associated screen scrolling or extra memory.
I urge classic chipset users to give ViSAGE a try!
:-) :-)
I know I don't have a graphics card and am in no position to argue
with anyone (I would certainly rather a GVP Spectrum than AGA!) but I
do feel BoingBoss is right.
PCI is not the way to go for classic Amiga in my opinion, not unless
we see a huge increase in the inertia of driver writing. Maybe my view
is a little too jaded towards the Picasso-IV after reading that 96%
Gold award review that Amiga Format gave it.
Calling all PCI-bus owners! Tell us about your drivers and options!
:-D :-D :-D
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I found the speed hit from 16bit to 24bit was not worth the very minute color depth increase. I could hardly tell the difference and speed is more important to me. I even use 16bit on iBrowse on a seperate window! I use Picasso96, I think it is faster and better RTG system.
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BoingBoss wrote:
Hi Karlos,
Whatever you decide, it might be worth waiting to see what Redrumloa is cooking up presently.
Do you get "kick-backs" or something?! :lol:
:lol:
I was merely reflecting on the recent posts he's made about getting higher performance out of the machine via some tweaks he's working on.
Hey Red, any chance of a free Prometheus? And an A4K to go with it. Aw, go on, you know you want to :-D
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Hmm, I seem to recall Red posting something regarding "would you buy an A2000 PCI solution" - maybe THAT'S what he's talkin' about?
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@Hyperspeed
You can't love the Picasso-IV and dislike PCI at the same time. How do you think all the add-ons for this card are connected?
AFAIK, it's a PCI bus. It might not have the PCI slot's physical form (just like my BVision), but its still PCI bus logic.
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@Hyperspeed
I currently have FastEthernet, Voodoo3, SB128 & TVCard on my PCI buss with a HighspeedUSB2 card on it's way aswell (and with that in place my PCI slots are all gone :roll:, good I have Z3 slots also but they are dissaperaing fast too).
PCI is very well worth it... sure the bussboards cost some but you get it back + on savings and speed of the PCI cards.
PCI do belong on the Amiga, it was planned for the next gen Amiga even in the Commodore days... drivers are still an issue that's worked on so it's comming.
About Red's cooking I can just say if the information I've been given is correct it's going to be great for some and not an option for others... and I sitt neatly in between and can't decide. No I promized I wouldn't tell and I'm not going to break it... we will all know soon enough. :-D
On my old CV card I used 16bit modes... they where ok for me and the speed gained from 24bit made it worth it. With Voodoo3 cards there's not a significant speedgain between 16bit and 24bit modes so you need to go as low as 8bit before it realy shows. I still belive 32bit modes are over the top (what 16.7mil colors aren't enough when the human eye can't even distinguish that many apart?) so I'm keeping it at 24bit (even if 32bit gives bragging rights when friends come over). ;-)
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Brian wrote:
PCI do belong on the Amiga, it was planned for the next gen Amiga even in the Commodore days...
Indeed. The erstwhile Mr. Haynie was rather excited at the prospect in the day as I recall. And there is no way BoingBoss can argue with Big Dave when it comes to classic amiga hardware ;-)
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I belive it's hard for BoingBoss to argue ratinaly about Amiga hardware with most anyone to be honest.
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Damnit!
Tell me what differentiates an Amiga from your average PC!
Is it not the video capability out of the box? What does a Mediator
do? It flushes your video capability down the toilet.
If you want to use classic chipset software, video genlock and toaster
etc. how do you manage with all these generic PC cards in your machine
with their generic drivers.
This isn't the evolution Dave Haynie would have wanted, this is going
down the slippery slope of the Ateo Bus (albeit in PCI as opposed to
ISA). And look what happened to that lump of cr@p!
My advice to all who want to enjoy the most out of their Amiga is to
get a Picasso-IV. There aren't many around so if you are serious then
make someone a serious offer.
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What differens the Amiga from the PC apart from the community and the OS you meen? Well... the Amiga have a soul and PCI doesn't remove that in any way. But both are computers and it's not the first time Amiga take advantage of cheap cards on the PC. I meen MAC also have PCI, A1 have PCI, does that make them PC's? Let me answerr that for you... the answerr is No.
As stated before what do you think the different expansion sollusions on the PIV is? It don't have the PCI formfactor but... Same goes for a number of other expansions on the Amiga such as the graphic slot on the BPPC/CVPPC for instance.
PCI is a step forward, not backwards... as less and less cards get manufacturered for Zorro and more and more of the old cards die out where do you think we will end if we don't have another road to walk?
I rather pay 129$ for a PCI solusion and 30-40$ for a used Voodoo3 than 200$ for a much slower PIV.
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Damnit!
Tell me what differentiates an Amiga from your average PC!
If you need us to answer that for you, it's clear you are missing the point totally.
Is it not the video capability out of the box? What does a Mediator do? It flushes your video capability down the toilet.
No it doesn't - not even close. I know of many people here who route their native video straight into an inexpensive "generic" TV card on their "generic" PCI expansion bus and with their "generic" drivers are perfectly happy watching native video on their "generic" flickefree SVGA compatible monitors :-P
If you want to use classic chipset software, video genlock and toaster etc. how do you manage with all these generic PC cards in your machine with their generic drivers.
Well perhaps now you know the answer. Also, if you are so keen on your video work, what is stopping you using a dual head display with your native video going via all your genlock etc into a professional PAL display and have your OS and apps running on your graphics card?
This isn't the evolution Dave Haynie would have wanted, this is going down the slippery slope of the Ateo Bus (albeit in PCI as opposed to ISA). And look what happened to that lump of cr@p!
The PCI expansion busses available at present are nothing like the ateobus. Dave Haynie recognised that PCI offers everything a bus needed to build a better Amiga, faster and cheaper than the Zorro III standard. Get over yourself already.
My advice to all who want to enjoy the most out of their Amiga is to get a Picasso-IV. There aren't many around so if you are serious then make someone a serious offer.
As I already said, the Picasso-IV uses PCI for its expansion capabilities. Do you really think the modules it offers are based on Zorro?
Yes get a Picasso-IV - it was the king of amiga graphics cards in it's day and nobody in their right mind will pretend otherwise.
Alas we are no longer in those days. Why pay a fortune for an old, slow chipset and pay more for equally dated and hard to find expansions for it (all of which are connected via PCI anyway), when you can get a PCI busboard and shove your own choice of cards for sound, video, TV, networking, USB etc., all of which are far more powerful than their Picasso-IV module equivalents into it?
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According to AmigaWorld magazine, it is better to have a 2-meg video board then a 4-meg video board. When I find the article, I will post it. :-D
Damn, my 64MB graphics card must be really holding my system back, I should really upgrade to a Cirrus Logic 5446 2MB card for superior performance!
For 2D use only, there is always going to be an amount of memory which is just plain overkill, but that is relative to what resolutions you're wanting to use.
I'd say 2 - 4MB on a graphics card to do 800x600 effectively (as in, responsive as well) is adequate. 4 - 8MB for 1024x768. Keep going up like that, approximately, though I have no idea how well an average 8MB graphics card would do with resolutions above 1024x768, I made the jump from 4MB to 16MB with my first PC, and have only used 8MB graphics cards for very short periods of time.
The main factor however to a decent quality display (excluding the monitor) is the graphics chipset. IMO, not enough attention is paid to display clarity in graphics card reviews.
I had a PCI 2MB Cirrus Logic 5446 once (this is in a PC I'm talking about), IIRC I used it for 800x600x16-bit and it was "ok". IIRC it didn't like doing decent refresh rates (eg. 75Hz and above). I upgraded to a Permedia 2-based 4MB PCI card after that, and 1024x768x16bitx72Hz was then "ok" and lower res combinations were decent.
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Phew, I stoked a hornet's nest here!
:-)
The Mediator is an exciting prospect, however it's a bit like a
vulture arriving after the carcass has been eaten.
With no software to take advantage of the 3D of these graphics
card chipsets (even though there are quite a few drivers) we are just
using the car on 1st gear.
At least with Amiga cards you have everything you need to make full
use of everything. At the moment the the Mediator solution is not
better than the CV64 was to the Picasso-IV back in the mid-to-late
nineties.
Integrated harmony with the custom chips is the only way to go for
classic Amiga in my opinion. Fine, the AmigaOne can use PCI - but it
has a dedicated OS to support that with drivers. The AmigaOne doesn't
have 15Khz native capability to take into account.
Never leave a good soldier behind I say.
:-)
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@Hyperspeed
So you're saying it's better to force march a Picasso IV to its limits with basic 2D displays than to make your Voodoo 3 go on a leisurely walk around the barracks and have it ready and attentive for new apps with 3D work 24/7?
BTW: I'd rather drive a Chevy SSR in first gear than a Model A in third any day.
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Ehm... games taking advantage of Warp3D will take advantage of my Voodoo3 card... And even on just 2D it gives lightning fast workbench, which I like.
There's plenty of drivers for the Mediator and more coming. Claiming that there are no drivers for the Amiga PCI market and that's the reason not to go that road is like saying we should not drive cars but walk because there's a short supply of gas stations. (But if I live close to the gasstation aka I can live with the drivers available, why shouldn't I go at full speed?)
Having a Mediator system doesn't knockout all the native modes... I can see those very well through my scandoubler.
Integrated harmony with the custom chips is the only way to go for classic Amiga in my opinion.
Fine it's your oppinion but we are alot of ppl that dissagree with you. I'm not going to try force my oppinion on you, if you're happy with your PIV then fine by me, live in the stoneage. I just dissagree with you and that's my oppinion.
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Hi Hyperspeed,
Phew, I stoked a hornet's nest here!
Yea, and I am running away. I am allergic to bee stings. :lol:
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Fire in the hold!
:-D :-D :-D :-D