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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Bodie on January 29, 2003, 11:15:55 PM
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Hi all
I just bought a very old A2000 (dirt cheap! that makes 3 Amigas and 4PCs!!!!!) and would like to give the old girl a new lease of life. Can anyone recommend the best video card (I'm on a somewhat limited budget) to use with the A2000? I will be doing some basic image processing etc... Also, while your at it, what would be the best accelerator for this machine? It already has an 030 in it, but still I would like something with a bit of extra grunt.
Cheers :pint: :pint: :pint: :pint:
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http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=used_hardware/used_index.html&cart_id=7477471_1950
This is in the USA but they are a good company and have lots of used stuff.
Ship worldwide.
I saw stuff for A2000 here today, but don't know what some of it is!!
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Thanks machinehead
The guy I purchased the A2000 from also said that SoftHut is the best company for getting stuff. I'll check it out, again thanks.
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Your best bet is a Cybervision 64/3D graphics card (which will work in Z2 mode in a A2000) and a Blizzard 2060 50Mhz CPU card (which were available really cheap from vesalia a while ago but I think the offer might have ended by now)
This combination will give you probably the best performance you're ever gonna get from an A2k.
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CV643D? Hmm.. It doesn't have a passthrough IIRC. I'd recomend a GVP Sectrum. It still can be found new
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Amiga 2000 system, CSA Derringer Accelerator 68030/68882fpu/68030mmu
(installed), 2Mb fast ram, 1Mb chip ram, CBM A590/A 2091 HD controller,
120Mb Maxtor hard drive, Flicker Fixer, Picasso II video board, Amiga OS
3.1 $ 400.00
This is something I found at softhut.com
Not a bad deal, considering how much I have in me A1200 setup!!
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I absolutely love my A2000. It's got an '060 Blizzard card in it with 128 meg ram, Cybergraphics64-3d card, flicker fixer, cdrom, 4 gig hd, all on OS3.9. I actually have more fun with this than my PeeCee. Keep the flame going! :-D
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i can highly reccomend the CyberVision64/3D
i used mine on my A2000 years ago, and it was quite good
you will need AmigaOS 3.1 or higher for it though
and 68020 and higher
some '060 accelerator, for sure
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iamaboringperson wrote:
i can highly reccomend the CyberVision64/3D
i used mine on my A2000 years ago, and it was quite good
you will need AmigaOS 3.1 or higher for it though
and 68020 and higher
I have a CV64/3D in my A2000/060 too.
The only reason it doesn't get more use is, ZII is dog slow.. :-) When you have many screens open, it becomes very tedious when swapping screens that are not in the GFX card's RAM. Small resolutions are not an option, 1024x768 is the least that will do for me.
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@Jope
I have a CV64/3D in my A2000/060 too.
Exactly the same setup I tried.
The only reason it doesn't get more use is, ZII is dog slow.. :-) When you have many screens open, it becomes very tedious when swapping screens that are not in the GFX card's RAM. Small resolutions are not an option, 1024x768 is the least that will do for me.
And for that very reason my CV64/3D ended up finding a new home in my A3000. Even with the '060 powering it along in the 2000, the graphics were like the machine was running in molasses. The std. '030 in the 3000 powers the graphics along nicely.
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Hmm, I would have preferred an A3000 for the z3 slots, unfortunately, I doubt I will ever find one (the guy I purchased the A2000 from also had an A3000 but got rid of it last year). Still, an A2000 with a new processor and a cybervision 64 should be enough for what I need to do :-).
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@Bodie
Hmm, I would have preferred an A3000 for the z3 slots, unfortunately, I doubt I will ever find one (the guy I purchased the A2000 from also had an A3000 but got rid of it last year).
If he was out in Pascoe Vale, I can tell you where his 3000 ended up.
Still, an A2000 with a new processor and a cybervision 64 should be enough for what I need to do :-).
To be honest, I really couldn't believe how much it slowed the graphics on my A2k. I was very happy to plug the VGA monitor back into the 2032 and have flicker free ECS modes back. I wouldn't recommend a CV64/3D to any 2000 owner.
Of course, for an A3000 or A4000 it's the bees knees.
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Desmon wrote:
If he was out in Pascoe Vale, I can tell you where his 3000 ended up.
Well in the ad it stated that he was in Brunswick. He was a big bulky man, with an Elvis :-D hairstlye!
Anyhow, should I search for an alternative? Perhaps one of the older RTG cards for the 2000?
Cheers
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The best card you can fit is a Picasso IV, it includes a programable flicker fixer (you can put it at 100hz for example)
The second card I would use would be a CV3D (to use the optional monitor switcher with scan doubler you will need to modify a little the video slot)
I would avoid old cards with old chips like picasso2 or GVP spectrum... Their blitter is too slow and you will notice it if you put them for example at 1024x768 and 16bits. In addition to that the graphic chip can't set up screens of high refresh rates if you use more than 256 colours.
For example, if you use a non-interlaced 1024x768 16bit screen with a picasso4/CV3D you will be able to put it at 82hz, but with an old Picasso2/GVP Spectrum you won't be able to do that.
Go for a modern 4Mb card, they are way better.
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Hi,
Can anyone recommend the best video card (I'm on a somewhat limited budget)
I would recomend the Picasso IV, It has to be the best graphics card ever, It works fine with the Amiga 2000, Has a built in scan doubler so you can use a standard PC monitor, you can fit a TV card, A TV out and a sound card to the card so saving room and they are not that expensive any more (second hand), Have a look at Ebay as a few come up for auction from time to time.
what would be the best accelerator for this machine?
Well any 68060 card, They all have an SCSI interface if I remember correctly and they can all take 128MB of memory.
Im still using my 030 so I cant recomend anything specific.
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Jope wrote:
iamaboringperson wrote:
i can highly reccomend the CyberVision64/3D
i used mine on my A2000 years ago, and it was quite good
you will need AmigaOS 3.1 or higher for it though
and 68020 and higher
I have a CV64/3D in my A2000/060 too.
The only reason it doesn't get more use is, ZII is dog slow.. :-) When you have many screens open, it becomes very tedious when swapping screens that are not in the GFX card's RAM. Small resolutions are not an option, 1024x768 is the least that will do for me.
yes true! which is why i moved it to my A4000T years ago!
@others
dont be put of with the CV64/3D not having a monitor switch, flickerfixer!!! i dont even use the amigas original video. i want to move to RTG only :)
the only time i actually 'need it' is when i want to access the early startup screen, or when i have a problem booting
with the CV64/3D theres the obvious benefit of 3D!
if i had a picasso IV, i probably wouldnt bother with the amiga video anyway
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>I would avoid old cards with old chips like >picasso2 or GVP spectrum... Their blitter is too >slow and you will notice it if you put them for >example at 1024x768 and 16bits. In addition to >that the graphic chip can't set up screens of >high refresh rates if you use more than 256 >colours.
I have several Amigas, two of them being A3000Ts. Both of them have 040/40mhz accelerators in them.
One has a GVP Spectrum which is ZII/ZIII autosensing, and the other has a PicassoII which is just ZII. I run a custom screenmode on both of them which is 1120 x 832 at 16bit depth and have never seen any of the problems you describe above. Sure both the Spectrum and the PicassoII are older gfx cards but they work well. Again I've never seen any of what you describe.
However, I will say that they both work much better with Picasso96 than they do with the newer versions of CyberGFX. Picasso96 gives more screenmodes and none of the bizarre artifacting that can happen with CyberGFX on both of these cards. In light of the fact that you can buy a new GVP Spectrum for around $150.00, that would be my recommendation if your on a budget.
regards,
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Crumb wrote:
I would avoid old cards with old chips like picasso2 or GVP spectrum... Their blitter is too slow and you will notice it if you put them for example at 1024x768 and 16bits. In addition to that the graphic chip can't set up screens of high refresh rates if you use more than 256 colours.
Just a correction if I may concerning the GVP Spectrum and Picasso II. The chipset of those cards (Cirrus Logic GD5426/28) is incapable of running at 1024x768 in 16 Bit non interlaced, it's just a limitation of the chipset. You are also wrong about the refresh rates. I am currently running my GVP spectrum in 800x600 16 Bit @ 72Hz non interlaced and everything on my A4000 runs quite pleasantly. I've even had it up to 85Hz in that mode and things still ran quite well though things were a bit slower.
That said I'd still recommend a 4MB graphics card for the Amiga any day. Personally I'd love to have a CV643D but am not in the current financial position to buy one at this time.
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Some additional considerations:
If you use a PicassoIV in an A2000, you have to physically 'cut' the card to make it compatible with the A2000's video slot, which is different than that of the A3K and A4K - not a big deal for most people but I never wanted to do that to my PIV's, so I put in a C64/3D instead and have been more than satisfied with the result. I also have a DKB Wildfire 060 in mine, though so that helps, of course.
If you are deciding between CGX4 and Picasso96, I tried both but could never get CGX4 to work, whereas Picasso96 worked first time I installed it and has been trouble free the entire time.
You don't need a flicker fixer with the C64/3D, so long as you use a mode promoter like NewMode to make sure any screens end up being Picasso96/CGX screens - note that even so, some apps will not allow 'promotion' (such as the version of ViewTek I have, I need to upgrade it) and thus since no NTSC/PAL screen is avail, they simply won't work.
Note also that in an A2000, you have only 1MB of ChipRAM, so getting a DKB MegaChip (or similar boards from other mfrs) is a good idea to double to the usual 2MB of Chip RAM (seen on A3K, A1200's and A4K computers)
Good luck!
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
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One additional point - if using OS 3.9, unlike earlier versions of AmigaOS, you can control where the Workbench RAM, etc. are used, in Chip Ram or Fast RAM - so you can best conserve the only 1MB chip ram in an A2000 much better if you can't find a DKB MegaChip. OS 3.1 and older (not sure about 3.5) only lets you use Chip ram for the workbench, etc. so if you had lots of open HD windows and lots of files in those windows, you might run out of chip ram quickly.
I used OS3.9 initially and really liked it but found it still wasn't compatible with programs I wanted to use (e.g. Lightwave) and so had to back-grade to 3.1, unfortunately.
I was pretty disappointed because 3.9 was a really good upgrade and there are a lot of neat tools in it that aren't backwards compatible. Doh!
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
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@RexxMast
I have several Amigas, two of them being A3000Ts. Both of them have 040/40mhz accelerators in them.
One has a GVP Spectrum which is ZII/ZIII autosensing, and the other has a PicassoII which is just ZII. I run a custom screenmode on both of them which is 1120 x 832 at 16bit depth and have never seen any of the problems you describe above. Sure both the Spectrum and the PicassoII are older gfx cards but they work well. Again I've never seen any of what you describe.
I've had a CV3D, a CV64, a Picasso4 and a GVP Spectrum, and I've tested Voodoo3,5, permedia2, virge, ateo Pixel64, Picasso2 and Retina Z3 in the computers of my friends, And I asure that from the 800x600 16bits a Picasso2/GVP Spectrum is quite slow. Of course I'm not talking about something unusable and many aga users will say wow! but if you have used other cards you will notice soon that a Picasso2/GVP Spectrum are the slowest.
You simply can not make a screenmode of 1024x768 16bit of more than 82hz with a CV3D/Picasso4, when I had my CV64 I used a 800x600 16bit 110hz mode and if your eyes get used to it you will soon notice a flickery mode of less than 85hz.
With that older cards with their older graphic chip the problem was not only the speed (I used the GVP Spectrum in Z3 mode, but that obviously didn't help the slow blitter), but also that the chip was too old to high refresh modes, I switched soon to a CV64 because using such an old card with my monitors was like wasting my money, there was no much sense in investing money in a decent monitor if you are going to burn your eyes with low refresh rates.
And now monitors are pretty cheap, you can buy a 19" monitor for few money, and then you will see how crap these old cards are...
For example I am wasting my 20" Eizo with a Picasso4 now. It has two inputs, in the peecee I use 1280x1024 at 85hz. In the Amiga the maximum I can have at 16bits is 1024x768 at 82hz, because at a bigger resolution the screen starts to feel flickery. The problem is that the chip is too old, I'm not talking about resolution here, I can put the picasso4 at 2048x1536 and 8bit but in interlace and a very low refresh rate (around 60hz)
@Colmiga
The chipset of those cards (Cirrus Logic GD5426/28) is incapable of running at 1024x768 in 16 Bit non interlaced, it's just a limitation of the chipset.
Translation: It's just too slow and old to do that
You are also wrong about the refresh rates. I am currently running my GVP spectrum in 800x600 16 Bit @ 72Hz non interlaced and everything on my A4000 runs quite pleasantly.
Of course, that is low resolution with low refresh rate. I used that mode at 110hz when I had a 15" monitor and a CV64, but if you use a 17" one or bigger you will want to use the screenmodes provided by your monitor soon, don't you? 1024x768@85 may not be as nice in a 15" monitor, but is one of the best resolutions for a 17" one. And if you have a 19" one or bigger you will want to use 1280...
I've even had it up to 85Hz in that mode and things still ran quite well though things were a bit slower.
I think the speed of the blitter is similar with 85hz than with 50... slow
If you use a PicassoIV in an A2000, you have to physically 'cut' the card to make it compatible with the A2000's video slot, which is different than that of the A3K and A4K - not a big deal for most people but I never wanted to do that to my PIV's, so I put in a C64/3D instead and have been more than satisfied with the result. I also have a DKB Wildfire 060 in mine, though so that helps, of course.
Yes, the card is designed for that and as the video slot is located on the other side you have to pass a cable. At least with that you have a monitor switcher. If someone wants to fit a CV3D scandoubler/monitorswitcher he would have to broke his video slot connector or the scandoubler card and solder a cable from a clock signal of the motherboard to the scandoubler (and the difference is that neither the scandoubler or the video slot connector are designed for that.
Picasso 96 or CGX, well I use Picasso96 and it works quite well. They are quite similar. Try both :P