Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: gizz72 on July 20, 2004, 01:08:16 AM
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Greetings,
Since nobody makes them anymore. Most of us, Amigans, tend to just revive old, out dated machines. Buy and sell from e-bays, friends and others.
Kind of an analogy here that the Classic Amiga is slowly becomming an 'Endangered Species'. Unless someone(company), like Versalia, Softhut... etc should 'Buy' the original schematics and re-manufacture them.
Or we'll probably use it till it dies. :-( I hate that when it happens. Vintage Computers will never be use anymore than just mere display in a museum, which I also hate it when that happens too. Scary too if we see such classic in the dumpster!
A year ago, I was on my to a client when I just saw an A500 case-only and keyboard in the dumpster. It breaks my heart to see it. I could if I would get it out but I was in a hurry to get to work.... deep down I felt bad... :cry:
It's a sad reality!!! Are we doom to see it comming???
Let's all help save the Amiga Classic from 'Extinction'. :-D
Regards,
Gizz
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Let's all help save the Amiga Classic from 'Extiction'.
That's one of the reasons why I am in business. I believe there will always be a place for the classic Amiga:-)
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Yeah i can see it coming :O( when i first started to upgrade my A1200 i didnt no much on the whole amiga one situation really.Now its bad since everyone just wants amiga one so selling there old machines and not many ppl are upgrading so less places stock hardware for the classic...
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Hi gizz72,
Let's all help save the Amiga Classic from 'Extiction'.
I agree and I am definitely doing my part. I own five (5) Classic Amiga computers and I am trading my AmigaOne G4 piece of crap. Anybody want to do some trading for it? :-D
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I'll give you five bucks and a Commodore tee-shirt for it.
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You give me 50p and a packet of Monster Munch amd I'll take the A1 POS off your hands :D
Steve
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removed
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My contribution is that I spend all my free money (the money that is left after all the bills are paid), to purchase Classic Amiga stuff.
Recently I traded my Shuttle SB61G2 with a P4, 2.8GHz, 256MB ram and 2x36GB WD Raptor SATA and CDburner for an A4KD with CSPPC233/060, 128+2MB ram, CVPPC, 3GB hd, 52x CDr, Ariadne2 and a Prelude (Thanks Crown). All my friends thought I was stupid, but I said: "What is more worth? A PC from 2004 or an Amiga from 199x that you trade your PC for?". Well they still didn´t understand. :-)
But it doesn´t end there, I have two A2000 with Blizzard 2060 and other Amigas too.
I´m going to make some serious stuff with all this power, although it´s going to take some months to complete it, a musicstudio.
A new batch of Amiga computers would be great, what I really want is the Amiga 3000+. :-)
Oh I forgot, it´s Classic Amiga all the way for me. :-D
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Hi B00tDisk,
I'll give you five bucks and a Commodore tee-shirt for it.
Actually, I am looking to trade my AmigaOne G4 for an Amiga 3000 Tower, in mint condition with box. I will also concider trading my AmigaOne G4 for an Atari TT computer system, in mint condition with boxes. :-D
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JKD wrote:
You give me 50p and a packet of Monster Munch amd I'll take the A1 POS off your hands :D
Steve
Alas Monster Munch are no longer what they were. They are no longer 'monster' size like when I was a kid...
...or have I just got much bigger?
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Alas Monster Munch are no longer what they were. They are no longer 'monster' size like when I was a kid...
...or have I just got much bigger?
What you need is a packet of MEGA MONSTER MUNCH.
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As it appears that my "endangered' toys are of little monetary value, I would then like to donate them (both systems and all software) to an org, museum, or old Amiga fan. I bought both of them new and have gotten an immense amount of pleasure from them. I used the 64 to learn how to go online in 1987 (found out NOT to use complicated passwords), write with a wp instead of pencils, motivate students using simulations, and to teach my grandson programming; The 2000 (and DPaint) gave me the power to present animated reports to university admins and to demonstrate creative and future possibilities to students. I would HATE to see them on the "dump heap"!!!
If anyone knows a group (or individual fan) who would be interested, care for them and pay shipping, please let me know.
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I know it wouldn't be any technology break, but I'd really like to see AAA coming out, maybe with a few modifications s to also support AGA registers ... IIRC the thing was almost finished :-( It's like those people who like old card or something 8-)
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Jose wrote:
I know it wouldn't be any technology break, but I'd really like to see AAA coming out, maybe with a few modifications s to also support AGA registers ... IIRC the thing was almost finished :-( It's like those people who like old card or something 8-)
AAA was dead in the water Commodore delayed it too long, by the time they even got the first chips back from the Fabs (which had to be FIBed to work) AAA was already being beaten in performance by cheaper VGA chips.
On topic- I try not to use my real Amigas as much as posible, they have alrady far exceeded their design lives, and I see no reason to reduce their lives when an emualtor can meet my needs.
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"...emualtor can meet my needs."
On most stuff that targets the native chipset emulators have flaws, sometimes very big ones. It's the only thing that I miss. Apart from that I agree, buy hey, I think it's a shame to let the platform die so I'll try to support one of the upcoming PPC solutions, I really like AmigaOS. Ok I'm getting off topic...
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Yes .. its sad to say, but the Classic is dying.
Very little new hardware is being manufactured and
info on the older hardware is getting difficult to find.
I've been scouring the net for info on a Harms A2000
accellerator model 'Professional 3000 or 3500'.
(Not sure which it is.) I've been looking for a couple
days but not finding much.
If anyone has info on the 'Professional 3000 or 3500' card
I'd really appreciate it.
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I tried to get a new a1200 internal scan doubler
and after 3 months of waiting...
doug from anythingamiga says.
"sorry we cant get these anymore,
and probably wont ever again"
oh well so yes the answer is the classic amiga hardware is dead, it's not just dead, it's buried aswell.
......
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"...amiga hardware is dead, it's not just dead, it's buried aswell."
Not really. There are still plenty used in video and image stuff even professionaly. Take also into account that alot of the "old programs" are really still usable today for plenty tasks where brute force processing power is not needed.
There is one thing that I think will never die, wich is the pure interest for the thing as a computer.
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@mikrucio
Internal AGA SD/FF is one of the few easier things to still get. Maybe not in OZ, but you can order them from Germany. I got my second one just this last December.
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Greetings,
Gee... Sorry about your shop Red. Just read this thread and realized Red's comment. Very ironic... :-(
Maybe I should also add to my title 'Classic Amiga dealers too are becoming an Endangered Species.'
Best of luck on your next endeavor! :cry:
Always remember the Amiga. :boohoo:
Regards,
Gizz
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abbey you should donate your Amiga systems to openvideotoaster.org
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I agree that the classic Amiga is becoming 'Endangered'. At the end of 1999 I was an expaneded A1200 user, but with the dabacle of Amiga Inc's attempts to restart Amiga range and the complete lack of serious or game software, I decided to jump ship. I got myself a PC. Now I have a wide choice of software and cheap hardware and I can run Amiga s/w via Winuae, I get best of both worlds.
As for AmigaOne and AOS4, its still early days. There is a growing s/w base but its slow and until the final release of OS4.
Rebuilding the Classic Amiga again is a non-starter, the technology has moved on and no-one would buy 10 year old technology again to justify the cost. Lets face it, the classic Amiga will only live on as long as the hardware lasts but every year it'll be harder and harder to find working h/w for it and it'll end up in the annals of history.....
The AmigaOne will take its place as it has upto date hardware and runs our favourite OS. What more can you ask for?
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WinUAE is preventing the extinction. The Amiga needs to move past the classic hardware, just like the Mac did, and just like the PC should (who needs DOS compatibility? Get rid of that stupid 640k base memory etc.)
The AmigaOne though, I don't think is the answer.
I would like to see however, a PCI board that has classic hardware, 68xxx and a PPC slot :-D
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I think the A1/Pegasos is in the right direction...they just need some real/quality software. Games & utilities. I'm sure it would cost big bucks to develop some real apps but you gotta spend money to make money.
At home I only use my Windows PC to browse, Microsoft Office for letters & bills (budgeting), Xara webpage designer for my website, Alcohol 120% & Nero for CD/DVD burning. I havent played a game on my Windows PC in quite some time. Being that there isnt any real software, I'd rather sit and wait before I spend money on a system that may end up being a system that runs soley on applications developed by people "when they have time" and will be done "when its done".
I truly believe if any one system makes it, it will be the Pegasos.. seems like alot is goin on in their camp as in BIG BUSINESS deals, more publicity.. Now if only they could turn that into SOFTWARE development companies developing NEW STUFF for the Pegasos.................
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I think, especially in the A1's case, it's too little too late, and horrificly overpriced. AGP 2x is ancient. The Amiga is best remembered for it's games, so surely it should have some strength in this department? I realise that there was more to the Amiga than JUST games, but existing platforms more than have things covered.
To me the A1 is nothing but an overpriced way of running an overrated OS. Don't get me wrong, Amiga OS's tiny size on Disc makes it a joy to use, it loads in a flash (at least on WinUAE) and after enough weeks of downloads, can do about anything Windows can. I can't speak for OS4, I've not ever used anything above OS3.1, though I'm sure that it likely offers little more than eye candy.
The fact Eyetech haven't even bothered to manufacture dedicated case designs with an Amiga logo doesn't help it's identity. It doesn't come with a PCI board with classic hardware, so it's nothing more than an overpriced outdated PPC system. I wish it were otherwise. I don't think it could be though, there's just not enough supporters of Amiga anymore, which kind of makes sense why Eyetech have not made a special case, and give nothing to make it anymore Amiga than an unfinished OS, but surprises me that a lot of the motherboard technology is so far behind the times as a result.
At this price, I don't just think the classic Amiga is an endangered species, I think ANY form of Amiga is an endangered species. But then really, we all knew this 10 years ago. It's only our love of the system that has kept the dream alive this long.
I'm not trying to be unecessarily negative, I just think it's a shame that finally someone builds a new Amiga, and instead of being technology of tomorrow (that's how the original Amiga felt to me when I got it) it's technology of yesterday. No big software companies are going to support it, only a few enthusiasts will buy it, and it'll be yet another nail in the Amiga's coffin (though I'm surprised there's any wood showing that a nail can be driven in anymore anyway)
BUT, that's just my opinion. Perhaps some people REALLY do believe that Amiga will live (the classic hardware though???)
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redrumloa wrote:
Let's all help save the Amiga Classic from 'Extiction'.
That's one of the reasons why I am in business. I believe there will always be a place for the classic Amiga:-)
And why you're perpetually in business and then close to closing shop, then back in business for sure, then thinking about closing shop again, etc? ;)
There's not much to sell for classics anymore, only a few new products released at all the last couple years. Many good products that could sell aren't made anymore and are hard to get when someone wants one. Just look at how people fought over that broken CSPPC board on ebay, or how much was paid for an old Zorro3 memory card recently. You can't stock classic stuff because it's very hard to get most items. There's also few people to buy, and many of them have weird perspectives on life after going so many years in Amiga limbo, lots of peole feel they are owed something in return for their impractical loyalty and want things for free that cost a good bit of money to make happen. The market, at least here in USA, isn't able to sustain more than a very few shops. With Software Hut, Centsible, and Anachronism all in USA (The classic sales places that I can name without looking things up), I don't see more classic Amiga shops happening.
Besides, many of the bigger spenders on Amiga stuff already have or are about to change up to AmigaOne or Pegasos. I've wanted to have better than my old 060/66 for a long time, and only in the last couple years has that become possible, without going PC or Mac. My A4000T is still my email machine, but I've taken to using my PC for the web due to browser compatibility. I'm still waiting for WarpOS compatibility in OS4 to play some games I bought long ago, back when I had talked Metabox into putting me down for an order of an Amijoe 4000. Haven't found a CSPPC I could get my hands on since Amijoe flopped, and that's been a while.
It's definitely time to look forward, it's just too hard to keep classic machines going these days. What happens when my overclocked 060/50 chip gives out? I haven't seen easily procurable replacements for some time... I think my AmigaOne will outlast the 4000T by a good bit, and will be great to use when the OS is "final" and released. Everything I still use my A4000T for I can do on my AmigaOne already. It will only become more useful than my A4000T. The hardware is better and cheaper than my A4000T rig. Why should I continue obsessing about the past?
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It's definitely time to look forward, it's just too hard to keep classic machines going these days. What happens when my overclocked 060/50 chip gives out?
I see your point. But I equate vintage computers with vintage cars. Why do people want to restore a 1964 Pontiac GTO with original aftermarket parts? You can drop some other engine in the car alltogether, or you can buy a 2005 GTO, which is totally modern, has all new parts!
Collecting is not about looking forward. But for the owner of that '64 GTO, or that '060 Amiga, part of the joy is in getting everyday use from technology that is somehow both antique and way ahead of its time.
As nice as a new GTO may be, it is far more satisfying to be cruising down main street with a beautifully restored classic GTO.
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How about an A1200 with box... :-D
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There are several companies that do ok with buying/selling a wider range of computer stuff, including new parts for old machines and retro items, perhaps thats a better way to stay afloat?
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@BoingBoss
All you are willing to trade for are very hard to find computers that are "mint in box". You have to be realistic. There arn't many boxed mint computers like the Amiga 3000T or Atari TT030 around, and they will not want to trade when they can eBay it for hundreds of dollars. LOL
I myself bought a very cheap Atari TT030 computer locally. It works perfectly, but was in bad shape, dirty, yellowed and broken cosmetically. I decided to "restore" this classic. I then bought a NEW case and keyboard from a Atari dealer and now I have a nice MINT Atari TT030 computer, along with the rare PCM1 mouse! (ST mouse that matches the TT color) And I would not trade this for anything. Maybe you should do the same thing. Oh also, the Atari dealers seem to have nice boxes for Ataris too, so I might buy a TT030 and Falcon030 box, so I have a complete set for collecting.
I am willing to trade you a mint Atari Mega4 computer for your mint Amiga 1200 but you never replied to my pmails.
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@FastRob
It's a good point, but the GTO of '64 had almost as much horsepower as the 2005 GTO. Not to mention that it shared a huge number of parts with a large number of other GM manufactured cars, for which parts are still readily available today.
The classic Amiga's custom chips were unique to the Amiga. They are no longer (as far as I am aware) manufactured. If the GTO needed new carburettors, you wouldn't even have to use GM manufactured carbs to get it going again.
Besides, I prefer the '65 model, although of all the GTO's the '69 I think is my favourite. 370hp as well. It's not like a 20 yr computer can outpace ANYTHING that is made today. A 35 yr old car can still poop over many of todays models.
That's not to say however, that there is no value in collecting classic Amiga hardware, but I really don't see classic Amiga's getting the same sort of treatment as old Muscle cars. But... stranger things have happened I guess. You certainly couldn't get an old classic Amiga, and throw out your modern hardware and have it do everything the modern stuff did. An old '64 GTO however, could replace your modern car, and exactly the same things your modern one did.
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Oops double post, sorry. Stupid WindowsXP PRO :pissed:
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@Wibbly
The point that FastRobPlus was making is that collecting Amigas is like collecting anything else. You can still enjoy using a 7.14MHz computer to do computing tasks like Word Proccessing, play games, etc as you can with a 3.06GHz modern PC. The point is using the collectable as it was when it was released and enjoying it.
It's one thing to collect a Amiga 500, and use a modern PC, and yet another thing to ONLY own a Amiga 500 and upgrade the crap out of it to be able to use it as your main PC! lol
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Pontiacs suck anyway :-D
My place (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/katejames/photos/thecollection.jpg)
For a car analogy my wife's Dodge-Shelby Charger is much more like an Amiga - no replacement metalwork available! I've still tuned the hell outta it, and it's fun to ride in :-D
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That's a mean looking Charger your wife has there!
Excellent.
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>>Dodge-Shelby Charger is much more like an Amiga
Because Dodge breaks a lot so they went to Germany for engineering and quality control but they still break a lot?
I guess that's kinda similar.
I think the Dodge Polara is like an Amiga 2000. Both are made out of more steel than is necessary, and when they crash, the whatever's inside is lost, but the hardware is unharmed.
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Back on topic...
I think my wife wishes I was a classic Amiga hardware dealer. I just took over her sewing table with 5 boxes of A2000 junk I found locally...
She says it's time to "purge"
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My problem with the classic amigas is that you too often run into really weird problems that are probably the result of ancient hardware - it's true the things were built to last (especially compared to the crap put into conventional PCs of the time and even now) but even so, many are almost 15 years old or more, a LONG time for that stuff to last, to be sure.....
In my case, I spent a year futzing around with an A3000D that had a cyberstorm MKIII and cybervisionPPC card in it, that would work great for a while and then all of a sudden start to get weird checksum errors on the drive, etc. - and I wasn't even using the computer for much beyond typical internet, email and a bit of C4D... So I gave up, sold that one and moved to an A2000 060/50 with a C64/3D card, that worked great for a while, then similar problems started to show up. So I then sold that one and moved to Amithlon, which has yet to have a problem but can't use many of the old programs because no real sound output (thus no OctaMED, one of my fave all time amiga progs) and/or other challenges I won't bore you with.....
I'm looking forward to an AmigaONE but not optimistic there will be many if any killer apps for it by the time it really ships with a 'final' OS, since it's been so long....
What I miss the most is having a truly FUN computer to use. PC's are NOT FUN - they are about as much fun as using a hair dryer or belt sander - they can usually get the job done but Gates & Co. have taken all the fun out of it by the time you get done (or even start). That's the truly sad legacy of WinBlows, I think - removing the fun from software and computing.....
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
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That's a mean looking Charger your wife has there!
It's a great little car, kinda pales when I fire up the big block beastie in the background though :-D
And as for Dodges breaking, I've had a couple that racked up over 1/4 million miles without a rebuild (though they weren't sporty models). So maybe they're even more like Amigas - seems like some of 'em just can't be killed!
I was going to say something on topic, but I can't remember what it was now ... :-?
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Holley: depends on your definition of 'big block beastie'. ;)
http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/85camaro_new/launching.jpg
http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/85camaro_new/bscap005.jpg
http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/85camaro_new/race3f.jpg
yes..I beat both bikes...but those were the slow passes of the day ;)
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Hi Everyone!
I love the old Amigas. I have learned so much, just being an Amiga User all these years. I can sit down in front of another operating system, and within a matter of a couple hours, I got it. Nothing scares me, shell, GUI, anything. You sit a "Windows tech" in front of another operating system, he screams, where is the wizard?
I will never get rid of my classic machines. As I replace them with AmigaOnes, I carefully wrapped them up (remove the battery), and put them away. I owe them for a lot. I am actually very fortunate to be an Amiga User, since I have gained so much, as opposed to being brought up on windows. It's funny, I actually get impatient with other operating systems. They are not responsive enough for me! I find myself screaming, where is my A4000 or A1200 this XP thing is taking forever and it keeps popping up these messages (Would you like to update this now?).
I have a point, oh yes, it is time to move on. Amiga OS on faster hardware with more memory! I am actually very impressed with OS 4.0 and it is running half in emulation. MorphOS is just as responsive as well. I am actually really excited about the finished OS 4.0. So, time to put away the old classics and move to the new machines.
Yogi27
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Magic - My old Charger is definately a street only car, it only pulls high 14s on slicks (on street tyres the Wife's little one pulls mid 14s in her hands, I've never got it to go that fast :-D). That said it's a wee bit heavier than a Camaro - the previous owner hit a VW Camper in it, destroyed the camper but the front bumper got knocked out of alignment by 1/8" (which I still havn't fixed).
Responsiveness is one thing Amiga beats most everything else at, it's certainly the single biggest advantage A1/Peg has over other new platforms!
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@TjLazer
Indeed, and I get the point of collecting. But he does mention "for everyday use". Does anyone REALLY enjoy word processing on a classic Amiga? (I'm talking unexpanded with PPC and RTG cards)
I remember word processing on my Amiga. It's the last thing I'd use it for now. A few games for nostalgia purposes yes. WORD PROCESSING? Perhaps that was just a bad example you picked.
It's one thing to collect a Amiga 500, and use a modern PC, and yet another thing to ONLY own a Amiga 500 and upgrade the crap out of it to be able to use it as your main PC! lol
Yeah, again I agree, but if someone has expanded an A500 enough to use it as their main PC... I wanna see it :-D
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Well everyday use a A500 with WB1.3 would be a little behind the times, BUT it still is pretty doeable! A word processor like Excellence! or Final Writer is still pretty nice, even for today. (Compared to say a Atari ST or Apple II), but yes I agree, even I, the Vintage Computer Geek would not use a unexpanded Amiga for everyday use! I personally use both a Win XP PC and a Amiga 4000 (060/66MHz, CV64/3D, 272MB Fast RAM, 20GB HD, Sony CDRW, Ethernet, 19" Gateway Monitor!) ;)
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There's plenty of daily useable programs, but you do need a harddisk, some memory, a graphics card, and some WB updates to make life easier.
For what I do (Amiga to comparative Windows Program):
FinalWriter = Word 97
ArtEffect 4 = Paintshop Pro 7
StarAmPlan = Excel 97
Pagestream 4 = Pagestream 4 (!)
Ibrowse = Most of IE 5
This is like having an old musclecar with the updates needed for modern daily driving (radial tyres, front sway bar, more up to date carb & intake etc).
Both an Amiga and a classic car take much more time & effort to use daily than cheaper, newer, solutions. The A1 is kinda like a new GTO though - a bit overpriced but it works :-D
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Hi all,
What I want to know is, where is all the hardware being sold on E-Bay going? Some big black hole? Somebody out there is buying this stuff. It hampers us die hards that need parts and stuff.
Chris