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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Sparky on July 08, 2004, 11:55:37 PM
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Hi there,
Is there anyway to connect more than one one device to the clockport of the A1200 ?
I'd like to connect up a soundcard AND and Subway USB device ?
I seem to remember that there was a widget around that would allow it.
Any ideas ?
Thanks!
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Is there anyway to connect more than one one device to the clockport of the A1200 ?
Yes. RMB Digitaltechnik (http://www.rbm.de) once sold the "Quadroport", a device that connects to the clockport (via a ribbon cable IIRC) and provides four clockports.
Note that RBM left the Amiga market ages ago - I don't think they are still able to supply such a device. Good luck locating it on ebay ;)
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Most Individual Computers (http://www.ami.ga) boards have additional clockports on them. You'll need Zorro slots, though. I don't think they can be daisy-chained.
The Z-IV Zorro busboard has more clockports on it as well.
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@Sparky
The same device I told you about that plugs into the A600 clockport, also plugs into the A1200 one.............its called the Quaddddraport, spelled just like that. it gives you four more ports I think. I myself am looking for one Badly.
I want my A600 to explode from all the Power inside! I am planning on destroying the Universe with this little machine! hehehe
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One need to remember that the Q.port only support some clockport hardware, I'm doubtfull if the subway is supported.
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Actually, the Quaddddroport is supported in the Subway driver -- but I never have tested it and AFAIK never got reports back from users.
And no, clockport cards cannot be chained -- there are only four address lines (!) and 8 datalines creating a mere address/register space of 16 bytes. The subway needs all of them to operate. Clockport cards are some kind of magic ;)
The only exception to this chaining was the Melody soundcard, which can be chained with a Twister serial port (the cards would share the address space). But it will only work exactly this way and no other.
Ah yes, the following Zorro card clockports are supported by the Subway:
/* Highway */
/* Unity Prototype CP 0 */
/* Unity Prototype CP 1 */
/* X-Surf CP 0 */
/* X-Surf CP 1 */
/* ISDN-Surfer */
/* VarIO */
/* Buddha flash */
/* Kickflash */ (the last one only the next release of the driver)
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What this space!
Someone very skilled in electronics, who we've all probably got something from, "might" be doing something most generous about this :-)
I'll post up more info later if it happens.
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A clockport device can only reside at these addresses, nothing else:
$D80001, $D80005, $D80009, $D8000D, $D80011, $D80015
$D80019, $D8001D, $D80021, $D80025, $D80029, $D8002D
$D80031, $D80035, $D80039, $D8003D
Whilst you could generate more by perhaps multiplexing the 8 data bus pins, you would break existing software drivers.
Also bear in mind that the maximum, theoretical, throughput of the clockport is 2.8 MByte/sec but is is CPU not DMA driven.
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@Steady:
While this is valid for the original A1200 clockport, zorro clockports have the same address offsets, but with a different base and often use faster timings. This no problem for most clockport devices. And nearly all of them at least support one of the zorro clockport cards -- hacking them into using a different one with different base is very simple then. The Quaddddroport uses the same addresses as in the original A1200, but has three additional clockports at 0x4000 offsets.
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AFAIK, the Z-IV busboard uses the same offsets for it`s clockports too.
It`s a simple 1 chip job to generate these new chip selct signals, although you can`t build it on stripboard cos the clockport headers are 2mm pitch instead of 0.1". So you`ll have to either get your own PCB made, or hack it into a 2mm IDC cable!
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:-) Instructions on how to build your own clock port expander have just appeared in my in-box :-)
I'll see if I can turn them into a schematic and then take things from there.
Some people in the Amiga community are top notch :-D
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"The same device I told you about that plugs into the A600 clockport, also plugs into the A1200 one"
The A600 does not have a "ClockPort".
Both A6 and A12 have expansion ports.
Niether 2 Layer European nor the 4 Layer American A600 PCB's have Clockports.
Perhaps you meant another HW product that fit over a PLCC chip?
Please elaborate...
...and YOU with the schematics in the INBOX: Share-em!!
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...and YOU with the schematics in the INBOX: Share-em!!
I intend too, just need to get a nice schematic done and get them QA'd .. then up on Aminet they go :-)
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[idiot-mode]
The A1200 revision 1A (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a1200mbr1abig.jpg) has two clockports and the extra port is located at P9A near the keyboard connector on the right
[/idiot-mode]
:lol:
Post Edited, see below :-D
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The A1200 revision 1A has two clockports and the extra port is located at P9A near the keyboard connector on the right
Wrong. Sorry. It is the normal expansion header for memory which was only present in early revision machines.
Don't even try to connect clockport devices there!
Please read the SUBWAY manual to get more information on this issue.
Michael
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Oops, sorry, thanks for this clarification ;-)
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@joetee
"Perhaps you meant another HW product that fit over a PLCC chip?"
Joe....Precisly............There is a Device called the SilverSurfer Adaptor that plugs onto the Gayle chip in the A600. It gives it an A1200 compatible clockport.............I have this device and will be adding a Subway or Silver Surfer or Delphina Sound card soon.
The adaptor I was refering to though was the Quaddddra port, which when plugged onto the Clockport of the A1200 or the (newly installed) clockport on the A600, it gives both machines 4 more clockports. Neat eh? :-)
I wish people would create more stuff like this. Some of these guys are Brilliant!!!
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@sparky
The design you have, does it look like this?
(http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/Clockport_Splitter.gif)
I forgot I had this.
This required a connection to the Kickstart chip to provide the extra address decode needed.
I also found a picture of the original quadroport here: http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/Quaddddroport.jpg (http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/Quaddddroport.jpg)
Bye
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Stedy wrote:
@sparky
The design you have, does it look like this?
(http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/Clockport_Splitter.gif)
I forgot I had this.
This required a connection to the Kickstart chip to provide the extra address decode needed.
I also found a picture of the original quadroport here: http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/Quaddddroport.jpg (http://amiga.resource.cx/gallery/Quaddddroport.jpg)
Bye
:-)
That looks pretty close to the description I got ... darn it spoilt all the fun, but did answer a question I had :-)
Is this something you drew up ? What are the implications of loading this up to Aminet ?
I'll still make some schematics up though as I can then get the PCB built quickly.
Thanks for that! :-)
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I did not draw it up, Daedalus/Robert Cranley did, see the title box!
I gave him some help and advice for the design a while back and had a copy in my posesssion. I would need to check with Daedalus if it can be released on Aminet, I will check IRC later on.
Be warned, the pinout is not as you would expect. Pin 22 of that schematic is pin 19 of P9B, pin 21, Pin 20 of P9B and so on (numbering from bottom to top).
Pin 37 of U6B is A14 and Pin 36 is A15. These decode a $4000 offset from $D80001, making the second two ports (CN3 and CN4) appear at $D84001, the same as for a Quadroport.
This design would only accept 4 devices that need 8 address locations each.
While you are at it, design a version to fit over the 84 pin Gayle PLCC chip, then A600 users can join in!
Have fun,
Ian
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Hello,
The design I posted had a problem with the Interrupt handling, all the IRQ lines were tied together! So with 4 devices, if 1 signals an interrupt, it would fight the other 3 IRQ lines!
Also the original design does do the address decode for all the quadroports addresses, $D80000, D84000, $D88000 & $D8C000.
I redrew the schematic with the IRQ logic and put it here:
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/clockport_expander.png (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/clockport_expander.png) and as I had a bit of spare time, the PCB design is here:
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/clockport_expander-pcb.png (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/clockport_expander-pcb.png)
If anyone wants the Eagle CAD or Gerber files, I will put them online.
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> The design I posted had a problem with the Interrupt handling, all the IRQ lines were tied together! So with 4 devices, if 1 signals an interrupt, it would fight the other 3 IRQ lines!
Is this really a problem? I thought the IRQ line (INT6) was tristate anyway.
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@ Stedy..
That`s freaky, almost spot on the same as the one I did a few months back.
The only thing different on mine is that I used the other half of the 139 and the spare_cs as its enable, to drive the spare_cs lines on the 4 ports, just for completeness.
I suppose it`d be just as easy to decode the Net_cs for one of the ports, AFAIK Gayle uses less wait states on accesses to that memory space..
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@Doobrey
Actually you just found my deliberate mistake! :-D
I should have used _SPARE_CS not _RTC_CS for the address decode, that address space is taken up by the Real time clock in your accelerator! I will upload the revised schematic tomorrow.
To access NET_CS would require connecting to Gayle, which could be done but AFAIK, no software would support accesses in the decoded memory region.
So Doobrey, why did you not publish your design then?
@Platon42
Interrupts are never tri-state. If they were the CPU probably have un-defined operation unless external pull ups are used.
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Deliberate mistake my #### :lol:
Wouldn`t the RTC on accelerator cards just take up the memory of the first port ?
As for the Net_CS, I did have a few ideas..but getting hold of old ISA based ethernet chips with freely available docs is hard, although there is a company in the US that have a dev board that`ll just need an inverter on the interrupt line, and it`ll wire in fine.
I will publish my stuff when I`ve finally tested it and got all the software working OK, which reminds me..
@Chris,
Had any luck with the latest build I sent?
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@ Doobrey
Deliberate mistake my ####
Ok, I made a mistake, now corrected (new drawing online).
Yes, the RTC should only take the first port of the RTC_CS area.
Take a look at Cirrus Logic, their CS8900 (http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P46.html) Ethernet chip, will work in an 8 bit ISA type mode. See AN181 'Using the CS8900A in 8 bit mode.'
Have fun!
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I was looking for the CS8900 or the RTL8019 (I think it`s the 8019!..can`t remember without digging out the schematics),
Just can`t find them in the UK in small quantities, Maplins used to do it, but they`ve cut right back on their semiconductor range. Couldn`t find them at Farnell or RS either.
I might have to resort to buying an ISA card and getting out the blowtorch :flame:
How`s your 24bit IO card coming along? Have you scrapped the clockport version to concentrate on the parralel port verion?
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@Doobrey,
For the CS8900, have you contacted
Unique Memec (http://www.unique.uk.memec.com), UK distributors for Cirrus Logic parts?
Another option is SMSC, their 91C96, 91C100 and 91C111 will work with an 8 bit interface for the clockport.
Insight Memec (http://www.insight.uk.memec.com) distribute SMSC parts.
Both variants of my 24 bit I/O card have been built. I have tested the parallel port version and I designed a modified version for Xeron's CD1200 project. PCBs were made for the CD1200 board, not sure of current progress.
Details of both designs are on my website, with photos of the PCBs.
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Not strictly about the topic, but I opened my 1200 up, only to find that half the pins on the clockport were missing... Why is this? Are half the pins not in use?
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You mean you have the rightmost 22pins on P9B ?
That is the clockport, all other pins were left over from the days when CBM were gonna make the A1200 with 1MB RAM, and sell an extra 1MB module that plugged into the P9A&B connectors.
When they decided to make the A1200 a 2Mb machine, they simply didn`t bother soldering the pins to the unused holes to save money.
BTW, I`ve heard that some A1200s were built wrong, and had the 22pins meant for the clockport soldered to the leftmost side of the connector, if your A1200 is like that, dont plug anything into it, you could let out the magic blue smoke.
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Yep, the rightmost ones is the ones I have... I always thought that the clockport consisted of all the pins, so to speak... :)
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Hi,
Take a look at Cirrus Logic, their CS8900 Ethernet chip, will work in an 8 bit ISA type mode. See AN181 'Using the CS8900A in 8 bit mode.'
(http://www.amigaupgrades.com/ethernet.jpg)
:-P :-)
(PS: Prototype, not tested, probably wont work.)
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Hi Oli..
Have you seen this ??
(http://www.embeddedether.net/ee100_pinout.jpg)
More details from their site www.embeddedether.net (http://www.embeddedether.net/hardware.html)
Looks like it only needs Reset,AEN,and INTR inverted ..er and the small matter of a driver.At $49, it`s gonna be cheaper than getting my own PCB and the time spent burning my fingers.
BTW, I seem to remember Jens Schoenfeld saying something about the interrupt line on the CS8900 not working when 8 bit mode, so the driver would have to do polling :-(
Also, www.edtp.com (http://www.edtp.com) do a nice line in embedded network stuff, both kits and assembled.
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Dunno if anyone is actually interested in a clockport network card,
But there`s also this..
(http://www.embeddedethernet.com/appnotes/crystalv3.jpg)
Apart from the layout, it looks pretty much the same as the one above except it costs $70..from www.embeddedethernet.com (http://www.embeddedethernet.com/)
Again..roll yer own drivers..
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I talked to Jens and he mentioned that his Ethernet module for the C64 uses a standard clockport connector (ofcause it's Jens we're talking about) to connect to the RR and it would work with the Amiga clockport if only there was drivers. However it would meen about an 80% CPU hogg and a silly low speed of something like 100Kbit.
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Oh I think there IS a market for Clockport network cards... think of all those poor people who dont want t0o have PCMCIA cards hanging out their machines or buy Powers £20 rightangle adaptors for tower use!!!
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If there was a clockport network card, I'd buy one, as I plan to use my pcmcia port for a cdrom...
Robert
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Methanoid wrote:
think of all those poor people who dont want t0o have PCMCIA cards hanging out their machines or buy Powers £20 rightangle adaptors for tower use!!!
Even with a right angle adapter, I had problems with my network card. The dongle cable was so stiff, it couldn`t bend out the way of the case without creating a bad connection on the network card!
I ended up removing the PCMCIA port, and soldering a short length of SCSI ribbon (68w IDC, just right!)between the motherboard and the now loose PCMCIA socket. :-o
That way, I could move the network card to the bottom of the case and not have to worry about jiggling the dongle to get a connection!
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Has anyone here (apart from E3B or Individual Designs) ever built and tested their own clockport card?
I've designed a serial card and such but as I am now an ex-Amiga user, it will not get built.
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Not yet..fingers crossed,very soon though.
I`ve got a couple of things ready to go to the PCB makers, and the software`s almost done for one of them.
Just waiting until I`ve finalised the design of another project, then I`ll be getting all the PCBs made at once to save some of money.
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Come on Doob, share with us :-o
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Nothing that special Meth,
The MP3 player is almost there, the chips finally arrived the other week after a world shortage, doing the stripboard version at the moment.
The flashrom gizmo is just waiting for me to get the software finished, got a stripboard version that`s ugly as hell, but seems functional.
Apart from that, everything else is nothing more than untested schematics or ideas.. RDS radio module for the mp3 player, probably with a controllable mixer too, Colour LCD display for the player, network card, serial card with one rs232 port, and one irda port..
But with work, life etc ,things get done when I have the time and enthusiasm (and money!) for them.
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Might be a silly question but how will we will run this and a network adaptor off clockport? Are there such things as working "clockport doublers"???
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CD32Freak wrote:
[idiot-mode]
The A1200 revision 1A (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/a1200mbr1abig.jpg) has two clockports and the extra port is located at P9A near the keyboard connector on the right
[/idiot-mode]
:lol:
Post Edited, see below :-D
Wow, do u know ive never noticed this, ive got a 1A mobo( lucky aint i, had it from new) and i know its got the one clock port, but didnt know about the secon one by the keyboard connector will have to check that out
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@JJ, Don`t wanna burst your bubble, but did you read on a few posts after that ??
@Meth, don`t worry..the FlashRom design has a built in splitter.
BTW, I hope it hasn`t got anyones hopes up, but I won`t be selling anything. I`ll post the PCB designs and any needed software on my site when it`s ready. If a muppet like me can solder, I`m sure others can too :-)
I was also thinking along the lines of an extended clockport..having a 16bit datapath and maybe an extra address line or two.
No use for existing cards, but could be handy for other people designing stuff.
Any hardware hacker types got any ideas/thoughts about it?
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@Doobrey
Stop pissing about, make an extender/adaptor board for the CPU slot, then you have a 32 bit, 14 MHz bus to play with!
It has _RTC_CS, _NET_CS and _SPARE_CS. What does the _BEER signal do? :-)
Failing that, the two kickstart ROMS have the Address and Data bus of the 68EC020.
@Methanoid
Once there was the Quadroport clock port expander. There are designs posted in this topic but not tested.
Have fun.
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GAH.. typed this out,just about to hit submit and ####ing BSOD :pissed:
_BEER tells the CPU that a bus error happened during the current cycle, and depending on _HALT, the CPU either retries or generates an exception.
Anyway, put yer handbag away Stedy..
For what I have in mind, tapping direct into the bus is overkill, sure for a decent network card it`d be the best option though.
As for the rom signals..where do you think my flashrom fits?
Unfortunatley,it blocks access to the clockport (actually the stripboard version blocks most of East Anglia :-o), so I figures that since I was gonna extend the signals to a header on my board, I might as well split it.