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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: DJS on December 17, 2015, 06:46:34 PM

Title: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: DJS on December 17, 2015, 06:46:34 PM
We are pleased to inform about new versions of the Mediator 1200 TX and Mediator 4000 Di models:

Mediator PCI 1200 TXblack (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-1200-TX-black/62) and
Mediator PCI 4000 Di 3V (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-4000Di-3V/63).

New version of Mediator 1200 TX has the additional logic for signalizing the power management states. The red LED of the Mediator PCI 1200 TXblack (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-1200-TX-black/62) indicates when PCI cards cannot be removed or inserted. The solder mask of this Mediator is black.

New Mediator 4000 Di is a busboard in format of the daughter board for Amiga 4000 in the desktop case. It is equipped with four PCI 2.2 slots and four Zorro III/II slots (one of them used by the Mediator 4000 Core Logic card). Mediator 4000 Di 3V (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-4000Di-3V/63) allows to use the wider range of the PCI cards, including cards which require 3.3V power rail. The solder mask of Mediator PCI 4000 Di 3V is also black.

Availability: from 21 December 2015.

Information on the current versions of Mediator drivers is available in the DOWNLOADS (http://elbox.com/downloads.html) | Mediator (http://elbox.com/downloads_mediator.html) section. The current list of supported PCI cards is available in the Mediator Driver Guide (http://elbox.com/mdg.html). Information about Mediator-related sources you will find in the COMMUNITY (http://elbox.com/community.html) section.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 17, 2015, 09:00:25 PM
I wish there would be AGP slot or something like SATA, memory slot... after 15 years of "development", but lack of competition kills innovation in some cases.

I'm still happy to be able to use Mediator :), but...
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: mechy on December 17, 2015, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: kreciu;800386
I wish there would be AGP slot or something like SATA, memory slot... after 15 years of "development", but lack of competition kills innovation in some cases.

I'm still happy to be able to use Mediator :), but...

Why would you need a agp slot, there are no drivers for agp cards, besides,pci is still way faster than the zorro3 bottleneck. that bottleneck will always be the problem.
I seem to recall drivers for sata cards under os4x,but dont recall them for 3/x. I think it was non bootable anyway.

if anything i would like to see pci-e..

I dont think its so much a lack of competition as its become such a small market no one wants to take the chance since they won't sell enough. its a monsterous investment to develop stuff like this.  The grex was the best idea of the bunch since it had a true pci bus,and didn't suffer from the zorro3 bottleneck.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: billt on December 17, 2015, 10:07:22 PM
Does the 1200 version also support 3.3V PCI cards? or does only the 4000 one do that?
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: carvedeye on December 17, 2015, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: billt;800390
Does the 1200 version also support 3.3V PCI cards? or does only the 4000 one do that?


I have a Radeon 9200 card in my towered 1200 and I think mine is 3.3v but I will have to check to be certain.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Rob on December 17, 2015, 10:30:51 PM
Quote from: mechy;800389
Why would you need a agp slot, there are no drivers for agp cards, besides,pci is still way faster than the zorro3 bottleneck. that bottleneck will always be the problem.


The existing Voodoo 3 and Radeon R200 drivers would work but as you said, the bottleneck is elsewhere and there would be no performance advantage whatsoever.

Quote
I seem to recall drivers for sata cards under os4x,but dont recall them for 3/x. I think it was non bootable anyway.


They may be bootable on a soft reboot once OS4's kickstart has loaded but otherwise there is no way for the OS to know that about PCI cards until the pci.library is loaded.  
They could license 3.1 ROMs and source from Hyperion like Individual have.
Parts of kickstart could be moved to hard disk but would there actually be enough space in a 1MB ROM for pci.library, a SATA driver and the necessary OS components to actually be able to boot from a PCI card?

The other question is would PCI SATA or IDE card actually be any faster than Elbox's FastATA cards and it still wouldn't offer DMA.

Quote
if anything i would like to see pci-e..


Still pointless since compatible PCI cards are still easy to source.

Quote
I dont think its so much a lack of competition as its become such a small market no one wants to take the chance since they won't sell enough. its a monsterous investment to develop stuff like this.  The grex was the best idea of the bunch since it had a true pci bus,and didn't suffer from the zorro3 bottleneck.


They did actually innovate with the Dragon but I can only assume that they never achieved the CPU performance necessary to make it viable.  Without a CPU and RAM being local to the Mediator or it's PCI bus, there isn't really much more worthwhile you can add to the existing design.  It will always be limited by the bottle necks of the Amiga it's plugged into.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: tonyvdb on December 17, 2015, 10:42:30 PM
$500 is a bit rich for my blood and Im sure others.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 17, 2015, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;800394
$600 is a bit rich for my blood and Im sure others.

?

Current EUR --> USD exchange rates are the lowest they've been in a decade.  These would be $346.64 USD not $600.  If I owned a 4000D I'd snap one of these up in a heartbeat.  :hammer:
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: tonyvdb on December 17, 2015, 10:49:19 PM
Sorry, your right although to CAD its still $480
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Bennymee on December 17, 2015, 10:51:31 PM
At last this makes it possible to try a Sonnet card in the Amiga 4000 3volt version.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on December 17, 2015, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: tonyvdb;800397
Sorry, your right although to CAD its still $480

I saw the "$" dollar sign and just assumed USD.  Sorry!  :(
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: mechy on December 17, 2015, 11:27:55 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;800399
I saw the "$" dollar sign and just assumed USD.  Sorry!  :(

the one driver i would of liked to see was for the mpeg/dvd decoder cards...

Any old style mediator can be hacked to use 3.3v if you are using a atx psu with 3.3v .. i simply ran a wire to the baqck of my board to the proper place on the slot, i run a 3v radeon in my mediator pro tower.

the new boards must simply use a vreg or more likely dc-dc comverter to make 3.3v from 5v rail.
you could also build a small regulator board to do the same if you only had the original amiga psu.

Also the reason i suggested we get pci-e is just for futureproof...and usb3 might be available(but not its full capable speed of course).
The mediator could of had a flashrom on it that installs itself with pci.library etc like any zorro card i would imagine, i always wondered why this was not done- It would of made the pci cards bootable and available at boot time.

I wonder if it would be possible to put the mediator stuff in the deneb flash rom or a eflash,romy,etc?
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: slaapliedje on December 18, 2015, 01:34:16 AM
I was just thinking the same thing Mechy, with romy, adding in the pci.library.

I was not aware of how you'd mod an older Mediator with 3.3v, and was actually wondering if Elbox would sell the parts, or upgrade older models to support it.  Of course for me it's kind of pointless, since I finally found a 5v Radeon, but still would have been nice.

But definitely would be nice to have pci.library from boot up.  I ended up getting some custom roms when my Cyberstorm MK1 kicked the bucket, but I'm not 100% sure on what was put in it besides basically the kickstart from 3.9.  Is there an easy way to tell?
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 18, 2015, 01:44:10 AM
Quote from: mechy;800389
Why would you need a agp slot, there are no drivers for agp cards, besides,pci is still way faster than the zorro3 bottleneck. that bottleneck will always be the problem.


Try to by PCI graphic card? Drives? Someone can write drivers.

Quote
I seem to recall drivers for sata cards under os4x,but dont recall them for 3/x. I think it was non bootable anyway.

if anything i would like to see pci-e..


...but what about drivers and bottlneck for pci-e ;)

Quote
I dont think its so much a lack of competition as its become such a small market no one wants to take the chance since they won't sell enough. its a monsterous investment to develop stuff like this.  The grex was the best idea of the bunch since it had a true pci bus,and didn't suffer from the zorro3 bottleneck.


Can anybody actually tell how many Amiga users is "there"? They are selling Mediators for VERY long time.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Darrin on December 18, 2015, 02:25:29 AM
@ Kreciu:  I've got one in my A4000.  Great piece of kit.  I've got the Radeon card with most of the card's RAM assigned to the system and a great 1920x1080 Workbench.  I have two "Spider" USB cards and a Soudblaster 128 taking up the PCI slots.  On the Zorro side I have a FastATA board for all of my drives and I need to see if I can cram my Emplant card in there too.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: danbeaver on December 18, 2015, 02:49:45 AM
It is not the Zorro III slot that is slow, it is the Buster 11 that limits the speed.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 18, 2015, 03:51:08 AM
Quote from: Darrin;800407
@ Kreciu:  I've got one in my A4000.  Great piece of kit.  I've got the Radeon card with most of the card's RAM assigned to the system and a great 1920x1080 Workbench.  I have two "Spider" USB cards and a Soudblaster 128 taking up the PCI slots.  On the Zorro side I have a FastATA board for all of my drives and I need to see if I can cram my Emplant card in there too.


Me to I have Mediator TX and I'm quite happy with it, but Mediator TX was "on market" last 7 years and apparently Amiga did not dye! I think today in general people "rediscover" old computers and there is MANY, MANY new users trying to get to idea what were old computers and here Amiga environment allowed the to experience "real old hardware" (other old computers are quite dead...). My point is that there is new market for "new old hardware" for Amiga computers.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Darrin on December 18, 2015, 04:59:08 AM
Quote from: kreciu;800411
My point is that there is new market for "new old hardware" for Amiga computers.


Ah, with you.  I think the main problem is that big box A3000/4000 Amigas are becoming harder to find in working order and the A1200 needs to be in a tower for the Mediator.  So, I don't think there is a new market, just us old farts who want to squeeze a bit more performance out of our trusty old machines.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 18, 2015, 06:00:18 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;800396
?

Current EUR --> USD exchange rates are the lowest they've been in a decade.  These would be $346.64 USD not $600.  If I owned a 4000D I'd snap one of these up in a heartbeat.  :hammer:


I dunno, man.  I'm waffling on it.  I have a 4000D with a Picasso IV and a Deneb USB.  I have a difficult time justifying it for this system since between these two cards I have everything I need.

Now, if I were to go on a hoarder rampage, I might to build another desktop system or to hold onto as the collectible value will inevitably increase and some collector might pay me a nice premium in the future.

I guess.  In any case, I'm just not compelled right now.  Not saying I couldn't be persuaded for that price, but I just can't bring myself to it.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: danbeaver on December 18, 2015, 06:29:58 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;800417
I dunno, man.  I'm waffling on it.  I have a 4000D with a Picasso IV and a Deneb USB.  I have a difficult time justifying it for this system since between these two cards I have everything I need.

Now, if I were to go on a hoarder rampage, I might to build another desktop system or to hold onto as the collectible value will inevitably increase and some collector might pay me a nice premium in the future.

I guess.  In any case, I'm just not compelled right now.  Not saying I couldn't be persuaded for that price, but I just can't bring myself to it.

Well, when someone goes out freshly these days looking for a Picasso IV and a Deneb, they are looking at spending about $400 plus $300 USD (or $700 USD total) with a long wait time for them to show up for sale; a Mediator, fully loaded would be < $500 USD instead, and the wait time would be only a few weeks as it crawled from Poland to its destination.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Acill on December 18, 2015, 07:17:46 AM
Just picked up a Voodoo 5 5500 for my 4000T Mediator. Do you know if I need to plug in one of the power connectors to the board? It has a molex on it. I'm about to put my mediator back in and see if I can get it working for the first time in awhile. Haven done one since my A3000 towered system several years back.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: danbeaver on December 18, 2015, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: Acill;800423
Just picked up a Voodoo 5 5500 for my 4000T Mediator. Do you know if I need to plug in one of the power connectors to the board? It has a molex on it. I'm about to put my mediator back in and see if I can get it working for the first time in awhile. Haven done one since my A3000 towered system several years back.

I used the power connector when I had that board, but only one CPU is used by the driver, the board is noisy, and not really much faster than a Voodoo 4 (4500)...
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: nicholas on December 18, 2015, 09:12:08 AM
Quote from: danbeaver;800424
I used the power connector when I had that board, but only one CPU is used by the driver, the board is noisy, and not really much faster than a Voodoo 4 (4500)...

 I used to have one in my A1200 tower many years ago, it sucked a lot of juice and was a tad unstable compared to my Voodoo 3.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 18, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
Quote from: Darrin;800413
 So, I don't think there is a new market, just us old farts who want to squeeze a bit more performance out of our trusty old machines.


I'm not THAT old... but in some way you are right. Old farts want to see their Amiga be as fast as possible, since 20+ years ago thierAmigas could not run 256 color in reasonable speeds. So, in some way "old Mediator" is still "new Mediator". It is like adding GTX 980ti 6GB for my A1200 :) and my Workbench would work almost the same as on VirgeDX 4MB.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 18, 2015, 11:53:44 AM
Quote from: danbeaver;800419
Well, when someone goes out freshly these days looking for a Picasso IV and a Deneb, they are looking at spending about $400 plus $300 USD (or $700 USD total) with a long wait time for them to show up for sale; a Mediator, fully loaded would be < $500 USD instead, and the wait time would be only a few weeks as it crawled from Poland to its destination.

Absolutely. Considering what you get technically out of Mediator (GPU, network, sound etc.) this solution is much better and cheaper then anything out there. Picasso IV vs. Voodoo 3 or 4 or... Only one exception is problem of putting PC cards into Amiga :spitting on the floor: and using Sound Blaster to listen Amiga mods :never!: ;). (I can't play Canon Fodder theme under UAE it is just wrong ;) )

PS. Amigakit will deliver Mediator within week...
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: aggro_mix on December 18, 2015, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: kreciu;800429
Absolutely. Considering what you get technically out of Mediator (GPU, network, sound etc.) this solution is much better and cheaper then anything out there.


The Mediator and Mirage tower are probably the best things I ever bought for my A3k!
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 18, 2015, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: kreciu;800429
Absolutely. Considering what you get technically out of Mediator (GPU, network, sound etc.) this solution is much better and cheaper then anything out there. Picasso IV vs. Voodoo 3 or 4 or... Only one exception is problem of putting PC cards into Amiga :spitting on the floor: and using Sound Blaster to listen Amiga mods :never!: ;). (I can't play Canon Fodder theme under UAE it is just wrong ;) )

PS. Amigakit will deliver Mediator within week...


You're both right, but I already have the two cards and I have an 1152x768 24-bit Workbench with built-in 15kHz FF/SD and pass-through, 100Mb/s network, USB sound, wireless USB keyboard/mouse, and USB card reader.  I couldn't justify replacing this setup.  But it's a really good price for Amiga PCI.

Plus, that just sounds cool.  PCI in my Amiga.  AAAARRRRRRGH!!
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Darrin on December 19, 2015, 02:25:51 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;800417
I dunno, man.  I'm waffling on it.  I have a 4000D with a Picasso IV and a Deneb USB.  I have a difficult time justifying it for this system since between these two cards I have everything I need.

Now, if I were to go on a hoarder rampage, I might to build another desktop system or to hold onto as the collectible value will inevitably increase and some collector might pay me a nice premium in the future.

I guess.  In any case, I'm just not compelled right now.  Not saying I couldn't be persuaded for that price, but I just can't bring myself to it.


I justified mine because it allowed me to put my Deneb and Cybervision643D in my A2000.  :)
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Lurch on December 19, 2015, 08:25:11 AM
So I'm not seeing any difference between this black version and my green TX mediator?
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 19, 2015, 03:47:14 PM
Quote from: Lurch;800469
So I'm not seeing any difference between this black version and my green TX mediator?

You don't have red LED... Time to upgrade.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 20, 2015, 02:51:20 AM
Quote from: kreciu;800483
You don't have red LED... Time to upgrade.


It's not blue?! Oh, well, that makes up my mind.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: kreciu on December 20, 2015, 04:46:19 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;800508
It's not blue?! Oh, well, that makes up my mind.

Nope, it is red. You know red is color of Amiga :)

BTW. I REALLY like Mediator! It is just good to get little bit sarcastic. I just got RED Radeon 9250 :). But this also shows how all this upgrades are quite unrealistic. The same will apply to PC or Apple products, such as GPU back plates, GOLD iPhone... etc. etc.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Damion on December 20, 2015, 08:28:19 AM
What kind of throughput is there to, say, a PCI Radeon on the Mediator? I know the Picasso IV was something like 9-10 MB/s. I suppose I'm only hoping it's not slower.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: wawrzon on December 20, 2015, 04:28:31 PM
Quote from: Damion;800510
What kind of throughput is there to, say, a PCI Radeon on the Mediator? I know the Picasso IV was something like 9-10 MB/s. I suppose I'm only hoping it's not slower.

it is, im afraid. been experiencing about 7mb/s to voodoo3..
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: HammerD on December 20, 2015, 07:42:14 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;800511
it is, im afraid. been experiencing about 7mb/s to voodoo3..


GREX with it's direct connection to the CS PPC or Blizzard PPC gets 18-25MB (for GREX 1200) and higher for GREX 4000 - up to 40MB/sec).
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Damion on December 21, 2015, 06:23:07 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;800511
it is, im afraid. been experiencing about 7mb/s to voodoo3..


Ah, bummer. I suppose given the various limitations of something like this, it's understandable. Should still be enough for reasonable performance with large screens and whatnot. I imagine the "Shark" would have solved some of these issues?

Quote
GREX with it's direct connection to the CS PPC or Blizzard PPC gets 18-25MB (for GREX 1200) and higher for GREX 4000 - up to 40MB/sec).


The "ultimate", of course. Wish I would have picked one up years ago when you could still buy them.

Given the cantankerous nature of upgraded Amigas in general, I can only imagine setting one up with PCI is the Amiga masochists's wet dream... :P
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 21, 2015, 01:36:26 PM
Quote from: HammerD;800513
GREX with it's direct connection to the CS PPC or Blizzard PPC gets 18-25MB (for GREX 1200) and higher for GREX 4000 - up to 40MB/sec).


If only one could be had :(
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: HammerD on December 21, 2015, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;800528
If only one could be had :(


I have a GREX 1200 for sale on Amibay.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 21, 2015, 09:03:11 PM
Quote from: HammerD;800531
I have a GREX 1200 for sale on Amibay.


Haven't been to AmiBay in a while.  Guess I should head over.  I would, however, need a GREX 4000i :)
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: HammerD on December 22, 2015, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;800536
Haven't been to AmiBay in a while.  Guess I should head over.  I would, however, need a GREX 4000i :)


GREX 4000 are next to impossible to get.  If you do find one the prices are usually crazy.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: LoadWB on December 22, 2015, 08:11:06 AM
Quote from: HammerD;800545
GREX 4000 are next to impossible to get.  If you do find one the prices are usually crazy.


Yup, that's been my experience.  But hope lives on.  After Christmas I'll decide if I want to jump on the Mediator.  How do native video modes work as the Mediator lacks a video slot?
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: jack-3d on November 22, 2016, 08:55:09 AM
Do you know if latest Mediator 3/4000T MK3 (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-34000T-MK-III/7) supports 3V or not? Most of the MK3 models do (but they have "3V" mentioned in their names), so I am wondering if the Tower version would also support my Sonnet Crescendo PCI.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: Acill on November 22, 2016, 02:40:23 PM
Quote from: jack-3d;816706
Do you know if latest Mediator 3/4000T MK3 (http://eu-shop.elbox.com/en_US/p/Mediator-PCI-34000T-MK-III/7) supports 3V or not? Most of the MK3 models do (but they have "3V" mentioned in their names), so I am wondering if the Tower version would also support my Sonnet Crescendo PCI.


Does not, but its really easy to add it if your using an ATX PSU.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: agami on November 23, 2016, 06:16:59 AM
Best thing I ever got for my A4000. Allowed for low cost ethernet and audio to be added, and a Voodoo 3, which is cheaper and easier to obtain than native Zorro RTG cards.

Moving to PCIe would be nice. Not for the speed but for the connection compatibility, as there are fewer and fewer PCI cards available out there. But I guess all good things must come to an end; It's a minor miracle that the late '80s/early '90s architecture can still function at all.
Title: Re: Elbox: Black MEDIATORS Available
Post by: jack-3d on November 23, 2016, 01:47:21 PM
I have MK3 in my A4000 Desktop, but I am thinking about Tower version too. But I need 3V support. I am not skilled with soldering wires or so then I would need a proper 3V support.