Wow! C-USA's first commercial.

[Iggy]

As posted earlier by Redrumloa:

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/2289-commodore-c64x-launches-april-5th-2011-at-midnight-eastern-usa?lang=en#2305

pretty cool!

[Iggy]

Any clue to when they will be selling product and not hype?

According to everyone, supposedly tomorrow. But I'll only believe that when someone offers to take money in exchanges for one. And I'm not going to be first in line (my next buy is going to be a Powerbook for future MorphOS use).

Edit - Uh, is it after midnight? Thanks Red. I guess now.

[Iggy]

Right, I wantched it and...

err...

umm...

yes.

I still think it needs more function keys.

I thought about it and then...

595 DOLLARS, OMFG, NO WAY!

I can get an Intel Atom system for half that.

Which means its a $300 case?

[Iggy]

I see now that commercial has been released the other thread here "CommodoreUSA Partners with Disney" has now been closed...

Kinda makes you wonder if Barry had this planned all along to drum up interest in his new commercial...

So does that mean this thread will get closed when they release something else, call me suspicious but something don't smell right round here and it's not just that commercial or me feet...

See my signature. You're ALL in on it (and Redrumloa eats puppies, he even said so).

[Iggy]

If you look, you can buy the case, keyboard, and card reader for $250.  That custom keyboard is VERY expensive even at a OEM cost.

I remember contracting for similar keyboards when I worked for a small outfit that built PCs. They were well under $100.

I think I'll gut a non-functional A500, A600, or A1200 and use a keyboard converter. It would be cheaper.

[Iggy]

-=Moderated=-

[Iggy]

But again, this is for the C64 folks, this is not a Commodore Amiga, that's further down the road.

I'm not sitting at either one of these poles (positive or negative), but the Commodore and Amiga names aren't important to me (that's why I'm using the OS I am).
I'll let you and Franko argue out the import of new "Amigas".

[Iggy]

really???  
"...So £99-109 is more than enough for just a case "

BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH, TRY TO ENGAGE YOUR BRAIN FOR 2 SECONDS, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS REALLY COSTS:

custom injection mold ABS case, that is available nowhere on this planet, a custom keyboard (like DAS), with custom dual shot injection molded spherical keys, Cheery Blue key switches, metal UL bracket for dvd & hdd, dual SATA & Power cable harness(custom), LED/Power switch combo,  rubber feet, custom logo badge (not a sticker) 40mm x 10mm high velocity silent fan, 42 format card reader w/ USB port, case plates for dvd opening and card reader, screws and cable ties, full color glossy printed showcase package carton, shipping carton, labor to assemble (not little Chinese kids), 100% assembly in USA, printed insert material, incoming freight charges, ADD TO THAT AN AMORTIZED AMOUNT FOR THE COST OF DESIGN & MOLD CONSTRUCTION (ALMOST 100K US$) AND THE FCC & UL CERTIFICATIONS.

"..crap motherboard specs worth about £50-75 AT BEST."  

GO PRICE OUT AN INTEL ATOM DUAL CORE 525 @ 1.8 GHZ, WITH ON BOARD DC POWER CONVERSION (CRITICAL) WITH NVIDEA ION2 GRAPHICS, WiFi/n BLUTOOTH on board or mini pcie card,EXTERNAL 90 WATT 12 Vdc universal power adaptor, incoming freight. YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS ANYWHERE, REGARDLESS OF THE MANUFACTURER, FOR LESS THAN OVER US$200+.  AND THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE MEMORY!

THE ACTUAL KEYBOARD CANNOT BE BOUGHT FOR LESS THAN $135-$160, AND THAT WILL STILL NOT GIVE YOU THE CUSTOM EXACT STYLE AND SHAPE AND COLOR OF THE ORIGINAL C64, JUST UPDATED WITH MODERN FUNCTIONS.

NOW YOU KNOW WHY THIS MACHINE IS PRICED AS IT IS. BUY IT OR DON'T..JUST BE AWARE OF WHAT IT IS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, BEFORE YOU FORM YOUR OPINIONS AND MAKE RIDICULOUS COMMENTS.

All caps is hostile and unpleasant.
FCC certification procedures no longer require testing, rather the manufacturer merely states that they guarantee the product meets FCC regulation.
UL testing is not mandatory.
Every other manufacturer of hardware faces similar tasks listed in this rant.
Similar spec systems without a C64 look alike case (but supplied with Windows 7).

1) Acer Aspire Revo $344.99

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103297

2)Acer Veriton $434.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103324

Or about $165 to $255 less.

[Iggy]

No shit.  Are you seriously wondering why Commodore USA can't match the price of an Acer spec for spec?
 
No one competes with low-end PCs from Acer/Dell/HP anymore unless they have something unique.  There's no profit to be made.  Commodore USA's selling point is the Commodore name, unique case, and retro appeal.
 
Commodore USA is banking that people will pay a premium for that.  Will they?  I think some will.  We'll find out.
 
Heck, if some people are willing to pay a much bigger premium for sub-standard, slow hardware based on an obsolete platform just to run an obscure OS that is incompatible with the vast majority of software and hardware out there... perhaps Commodore USA has a chance!

I think I've mentioned in previous posts that the Commodore and Amiga  names aren't important to me (while the seem to be a point of religious  reverence to others).
The case is cute. But not two hundred dollars worth of cute. And retro appeal is more than appearance.

As to obscure OS' and incompatible systems, that just a hobby. And when I use an X86 PC, its just an appliance.

However, I will agree with you that C=USA is likely to sell a few of  these. There probably  is a market for them. And the introductory price  has to leave some room for profit for third parties. Also, in time it  could go down.

You also forgot to mention (as a selling point) the promise of a future Commodore OS (with emulation of  older hardware).

But as to "Are you seriously wondering why Commodore USA can't match the price of an Acer spec for spec", absolutely. Computers are mere commodity items these days. You can attempt to market with unique features, but unless those features offer utility (rather than the intangibles you've mentioned) you're going to have difficulty justifying a price premium.

[Iggy]

I disagree.  Many things allow a company to sell at a price premium.  Aesthetics is one of them.  There are companies out there whose business is selling $200+ computer cases.  Do they really offer any utility above a standard $40 PC clone case?  I'd say no, but nonetheless people do pay a premium for them.
 
What I don't understand is why so many people on here feel the need to attack Commodore USA's business plan so emotionally.  These same people would rather have Commodore USA invest in AmigaOS 4.x, PowerPC, AROS, whatever... Do these people really think that's a more sound business plan?

Let the market decide.

Personally, If I pay a premium for a computer case, it due to features I want not aesthetic appeal. So yes, it had better have an advantage in features or i'm not paying a premium for it.

But I do believe there are people who would buy solely on that basis.

And I don't think that the people that are attacking C=USA would want the company involved in their hobbyist pursuits  either. You're way of base there.

Further, I don't view my statements of personal preference in anyway as an attack.
I think C=USA has a fairly good business plan targeting practical systems that would be of greater use to the average computer user.
Apparently the systems don't appeal to some diehard Amiga fans.
So what? That's little more than a small percentage of their potential market.

[Iggy]

So what DO they want?

Good question. I think in each niche market it comes down to control of the direction that their system of choice heads toward.
That's why there are several different Amiga related hobbyist communities.
Basically, a flavor for any preference.

That's one of the reason's it not important for C=USA to market to or worry about these people. They represent a small target of highly opinionated hard sells.
Better to go after the larger general market.

[Iggy]

At $300 I might buy it as a gag, but the thing is going to be so difficult to type on that $600 is way too much for a gag.

$300 is definitely on the low side. Even I don't think they should go that low. While it is an Intel Atom, its the highest performing Atom tied to an Nvidia GPU.
From the systems I've previously compared a $400 to $450 price might be more realistic.

[Iggy]

You are such a pathetic liar. I'll buy 10,000 of them right now from you for that price. Why would you say such insane things that are so easily shown as lies. Do get pleasure from saying things just to see the reaction from people here who don;t know any better?

Absolutely! Under $120 dollars? Obviously the poster intended to insult everyone's intelligence.

While they could lower the cost with AMD Fusion  (zacate should be out next month), you have to factor in beyond the  components, like assemble fees, insurance,  end user tech support,  marketing, and then profit for not only for C=USA but for the retailers  selling the C64x as well that goes into figuring a MSRP and a MAP.   There are just so many hands in the pie, that profit is whittled down to  nothing, then the US government takes it's 38.5% and whatever the state  charges for corp taxes.  

Considering this is a start up and a quick production timeline, the  prices are within reason.  I'm sure Leo will be working on cost  reduction for production over the Summer (well, Winter for him).

The comparisons I've made so far are only based on hardware specs and in no way relate to the market realities or scales of production that each company faces.
Further, if you'd followed my original post, the comparisons were based on utility.
Obviously the C64x does have some appeal that goes beyond its utility.

Those comparisons are only really valid if you're looking for a computing appliance.

[Iggy]

$395 actually seems fairly reasonable.

[Iggy]

If only the differences were clear!  Sounds like possibly a different revision that Cybernet will most likely also be selling, though usually WiFi is a MiniPCI addon (redesigning a motherboard to have it integrated seems like a waste.)

$100 less, without WiFi:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zero-Footprint-PC-Duo-2-93GHz-3MB-Processor-2GB-SD_W0QQitemZ280487322532QQcategoryZ37821QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8266865179676164712

Hey look, they don't seem to be selling at that price, either.

The unit listed  on Ebay includes Windows.
The C=USA model only lists "OPERATING SYSTEM COMPLIANCE:"
I don't see WIFI listed in the Vic Pro specs, only "1 Gigabit (GbE) Fast Ethernet, using Realtek RTL 8168B/8111C".