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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: mahen on September 11, 2015, 10:11:22 AM
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After a first beta at the end of 2014 and a first public version in June, Rok Krajnc and the Minimig / MiST / FPGA community release a first revision of the Minimig AGA core for the MiST FPGA, labelled 1.1.
It fixes quite a few major bugs. Here is an excerpt from the readme file :
- fixed mouse issues (fixes games Like Ishar 1, 2, 3, Robinson's Requiem, and many cracktros)
- fixed keyboard issues (fixes game Walker and probably many others)
- changes to FPGA clock handling, hopefully this will make a more stable minimig core
- entering the OSD menu using UP+DOWN buttons on a DB-9 connected joystick has been disabled
- 1MB kickstart ROM support added (enables you to run AROS ROM or your custom kickstart ROM)
- firmware now again supports using 256kB kickstart ROMs
- firmware now again supports using Cloanto AmigaForever encrypted kickstart ROMs
Official site & download : http://somuch.guru/minimig/minimig-mist/
Make sure you read the readme.txt !
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Anyone tried this? How close to a real a1200 is it? Also, does it output at 50hz?
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I own a MiST and I've tested 1.3 & 3.1 ROMs with WB 1.3/3.1 HD-images, and I can't tell the difference with a real A500/A1200. It outputs 50Hz perfectly; smooth scrolling in games and especially vertical scrolling in pinball games is perfect. Also 24-bit pictures looks the same as it is with a real A1200. It's amazing! I've hooked up a wireless keyboard & mouse and I'm very happy with it.
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I own a MiST and I've tested 1.3 & 3.1 ROMs with WB 1.3/3.1 HD-images, and I can't tell the difference with a real A500/A1200. It outputs 50Hz perfectly; smooth scrolling in games and especially vertical scrolling in pinball games is perfect. Also 24-bit pictures looks the same as it is with a real A1200. It's amazing! I've hooked up a wireless keyboard & mouse and I'm very happy with it.
Hmm, if it this good now might be a good replacement for real hardware? I wonder if the Mist can go in an A1200 or ATX case?
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Looks like up to 24MB fast ram, what sort of speed is it in mips etc?
thanks
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Last benchmark was the same speed as an A1200. There is no awesome speed improvement yet. It will be good when it gets past an 030 @ 50mhz.
edit: On Youtube the latest benchmark is 12.52 mips. That is a bit more impressive.
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Found this video suggesting some nice speed mips wise, just being compatabile is good though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frYemE1p_58
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Hmm, if it this good now might be a good replacement for real hardware? I wonder if the Mist can go in an A1200 or ATX case?
Check this : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/a1200housing/new-amiga-1200-cases-made-from-new-molds
Compatibility is not perfect yet although it's improving a lot. CPU speed is on par with a fast 030.
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If it plays Breathless full speed it must be fast...
So can you boot one of these direct into Work Bench, install on Hard drive or hard drive file, etc. How does all that work or is this basically a floppy disk image loader?
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Check this : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/a1200housing/new-amiga-1200-cases-made-from-new-molds
Compatibility is not perfect yet although it's improving a lot. CPU speed is on par with a fast 030.
A shame about the last campaign falling over, glad to see they're trying again. To fit in the case though wont you also need a keyboard to match?
On the fence about spending 79 Euros, converting that to NZD is painful. But will see how my finances are towards the end. Would love a keyboard to go with it too., although I could use something like a keyrah. They're a good price, would still give me the retro feel.
I'm use to running an 060@MHz A1200 so that is why I've been holding off on these FPGAs, hopefully the speed will keep on improving.
A 060@80MHz is just over a 100mips, Quake/Doom and even Quake 2 is playable. Also play scummvm alot. Workbench screams too. So imagine an FPGA that is capable of 100+mips, the hobby scene would take off.
So having a look at again, would love the transparent case. But it appears that is more, with the standard case that is $190 NZD with shipping.
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The more I think about it the more tempted I am to sell some of my Amiga gear and get:
Kickstarter transparent case - 79 euro for a standard case.. 160 euro for a transparent :-(
Amiga Keyboard - Wish I could get a new one, but have a spare I can use. Black would be nice.
Raspberry Pi - $35 USD + USB power/charger.
Keyrah - 34.90 euro
Should give me a fast experience, faster than the 060 in an A1200 wedge... hmmm...
Does anyone know the best option of powering the keyrah and raspberry pi2 at the sametime? Can power be taken from the raspberry pi2 internally?
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I believe the Keyrah is designed to be powered via the hosts USB. I would hope it has a relatively low current draw similar to a normal USB keyboard/controller. Where the PI will be mounted and in what orientation isn't clear yet so which ports will be internal and which available at the back of the case isn't known by me. If all the USB ports are at the back you'll probably need to loop back into the case to plug in the keyrah, if not then I would expect they can be connected internally, but you may need to bring other connectors out via trailing (extension) leads out of the case or by making some kind of custom rear panel/adapter board. The new case should have a place to take 2 (rapid road) USB ports.
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Lurch, transparent cases are 79 Euro, it's one of the standard case base colour options. A keycaps / A1200 keyboard kickstarter is also planned. I don't know if it will only happen if this kickstarter fails but if they both reach their goals I would imagine there's a good chance of the keyboards being ready before the cases.
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If it plays Breathless full speed it must be fast...
So can you boot one of these direct into Work Bench, install on Hard drive or hard drive file, etc. How does all that work or is this basically a floppy disk image loader?
Yes, you can boot directly into Workbench. Kickstart ROM & HD image-file must be on the SD card. The HD image-fle can be made with WinUAE. A harddisk image-file can be treated just like a real HD with HDToolbox. This is the Mist I bought: MiST FPGA computer (http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=96)
The MiST is more compatible with software then WinUAE (often the sound is not synchronized with sound-samples in games, etc...). Heck I even have a NES ROM installed for playing old NES games like Super Mario Bros!! I think it's a very cool device!
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Please think twice before replacing your Amiga with a Raspberry Pi (if it's for Amiga emulation purpose). You're bound to have sync, 50 Hz, input delay, performance, blurriness... issues. Depends on your criterias of course, and the situation will probably improve eventually. Will be more compatible than a MiST, for the time being, though, but the overall experience is not comparable. (IMHO)
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I think the only important thing Mist lacks is HDMI.
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Is there a wi-fi or ethernet solution for MiST?
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I see ethernet is on the TODO list (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rkrajnc/minimig-mist/master/TODO) along with RTG and AHI. The ST core already has ethernet support YouTube vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXxGhNXtb54).
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I believe the Keyrah is designed to be powered via the hosts USB. I would hope it has a relatively low current draw similar to a normal USB keyboard/controller.
So I could move the Raspberry Pi inside the case further and then use a USB hub for the external ports that way I could possibly keep all the cabling inside the case.
Lurch, transparent cases are 79 Euro, it's one of the standard case base colour options. A keycaps / A1200 keyboard kickstarter is also planned. I don't know if it will only happen if this kickstarter fails but if they both reach their goals I would imagine there's a good chance of the keyboards being ready before the cases.
Good to know, I've always wanted a transparent case. 79 Euro is probably as much as I would pay for a new case.
Hopefully they reach their goals this time.
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I have my doubts regarding this Kickstarter, even though I have pledged myself. It seems like it is completely stuck, same like it did with the first launch, sure there is plenty of time left, but like with every Kickstarter, interested people would have pledged within the first couple of days already.
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I've decided that the project sounds far fetched. Why not get a slimcase and modify it for the A1200. I hope they get the funding though, I might be proven wrong.
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Never mind...
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There are still fewer backers than the first attempt and Philippe Lang said that many of the backers for the second try were new ones which suggest either the message hasn't got out fully or something is preventing the old backers from returning. In regards to the message, it's harder to generate publicity the second time for something that failed the first time, it's "old news". The second attempt is buried in old threads on some of the Amiga forums. What else could be preventing old backers from returning? I know there was a lot of negativity about the campaign on at least one European forum but I'm not sure what it was about. There always seems to be some negativity in the Amiga community. Some of the original backers may have missed out on the limited edition they pledged on originally as the Lukash and Scoopex cases went very quickly so maybe they haven't pledge again yet.
The campaign needs to average about 1200 Euros a day from now on to hit the goal but over the weekend it only averaged about 1000 Euros. I really hope this campaign works and delivers, it's touch and go at the moment.
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@all
This is very interesting news! Could someone explain me the difference between the FPGA Arcade and the MiST? I am confused because both are FPGA-based and can run AGA games...
Thanks! :)
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This is very interesting news! Could someone explain me the difference between the FPGA Arcade and the MiST? I am confused because both are FPGA-based and can run AGA games...
They both use a configurable FPGA to reproduce hardware logic (more efficient and accurate than emulation). What they do is pretty much the same but how they do it and what features they have varies significantly.
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Someone asked about the speed. I measured with the Minimig AGA "newcpu" core 1.0,with SysInfo : CPU speed was on par with a 65 MHz 68030. (although the emulated CPU is a 020). It's better than what I had back in the days so I'm happy ;)
The readme of version 1.1 says CPU speed was reduced a little bit to increase stability / compatibility, but I guess there is still room for improvements as there was a HUGE increase between the previous beta and version 1.0.
The current problem is compatibility. Former ECS core was close to 100% compatible. The current AGA one has issues at the moment but it's very recent (first public version at the end of june). Actually, quite a few AGA games have graphical glitches, and some require the "Turbo chipset" mode to be fullspeed, which reduces ECS compatiblity. Temporary workaround, but I'm quite confident :) That's why I disable the TURBO mode most of the time. I can play my favorite AGA games perfectly : Slam Tilt and Roadkill !
As for the MiST vs FPGAArcade. From a user point of view, they are not so different for the time being. The MiST has more cores and features from a software point a view for the time being, probably because the it is way cheaper and more widely available. From a hardware point of view, the FPGAArcade is supposed to be much better though (larger & faster FPGA, better audio converter, future 060 daughterboard support, DVI output...). However, the MiST has some cool stuff built-in (4 USB, 2 MIDI ports, USB power input).
Also, it's important to note that the cores developements are separate. The MiST Amiga core is built upon the Minimig one and the FPGAArcade seems to follow its own route. Same for the Atari ST core. There is cooperation regarding the TG68 (68k emulation), though.
In the long run, we can expect great stuff like Ethernet, RTG and AHI support. If those meet enough success and maybe if other developers jump in I guess :)
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Someone asked about the speed. I measured with the Minimig AGA "newcpu" core 1.0,with SysInfo : CPU speed was on par with a 65 MHz 68030. (although the emulated CPU is a 020). It's better than what I had back in the days so I'm happy ;)
SysInfo's CPU performance measuring is a joke. The 68020 actually has more integer instructions than the 68030 although there is a good chance that CALLM and RTM are not even emulated in any FPGA CPU cores. The 68030 received an MMU (with instructions) which is mostly not used on the Amiga and a data cache. There is very little difference between a 68020 and 68030 on the Amiga as far as compatibility.
It is possible to reach 68040 and possibly even 68060 integer performance in an FPGA like the Mist or FPGA Arcade uses. Maximum performance is unlikely to be seen in these devices because the CPU cores are not that advanced and target maximum compatibility instead of performance.
In the long run, we can expect great stuff like Ethernet, RTG and AHI support. If those meet enough success and maybe if other developers jump in I guess :)
Maybe if open standards and cooperation reduces the amount of work needed to bring these kinds of boards out. Informing the Amiga community about these products might help their success but seems to be a slow process.
Mist info and de facto forum:
http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewforum.php?f=101
FPGA Arcade info and forum:
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/replay/
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/punbb/
There are various threads on this site and others like EAB if searching for topics like the board names or FPGA. There are also various youtube videos.