Theo de Raadt says Pegasos Bad

[hirschma]

Got this from the OpenBSD Misc mailing list today - from the head of the OpenBSD project:

"The saga continues.

I urge everyone to spread the news far and wide that the Pegasos powerpc platform vendor ... is quite simply, a con-artist company.

Nothing really works, it is all about 4 years from ever going anywhere, they are essentially bankrupt, the machine architecture is  more closed than the PC architecture -- the machines are SLOW and will be expensive -- and it is all a fraudulant rip-off operation as far as
we can see.  I suspect the North American wing of this is an
investment scam operating; since it owns nothing, and it appears some
European outfit owns all the hardware.

In time, Dale or I may post some mail to show what has really gone on between them and us.

I cannot remain quiet.  After 3.5 is out, the code to support that platfrom will be removed from the source tree.

In any case, I am quite confident that there are almost NO WORKING machines in existance -- and we've got some mail that makes that clear.  Apparently there are only a handful of working G4 cpus in North America...

As I said, I believe it is smoke and mirrors and investment games."

I find this interesting, as Genesi promotes OpenBSD as one of their main operating systems. Comments?

You can find the same messages in the OpenBSD archives. Here's a link:

Theo's scathing Pegasos message...

[KennyR]

Ooh, suspicious single post poster with possible anti-Genesi material. I wonder if I know who you are... But the link seems genuine enough, so I'll bite.

Theo is gravely mistaken, and I'm left wondering how he managed to come to such a strange backwards conclusion... Or why he's suddenly so hostile to a platform he doesn't know, when he represents an OS that will supposedly run on anything. Does he know something we don't? Or is such arrogance typical of BSD advocates?

If about 1400 boards is "almost none", then he is right with one statement at least, but it's obvious that he's very wrong that NO boards are in existence, since I'm using one now, and there are almost now as many G4 machines as there are G3 ones.

As for smoke and mirrors investment, if giving a away free boards to build a community and operating at quite a serious loss to woo the Amiga community is some kind of con game, Genesi aren't very good at it: aren't con games supposed to make money?

[hirschma]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I saw this on the OpenBSD Misc list, and I passed it on. I was interested in getting a Pegasos specifically for running OpenBSD, and well, now, I ain't gonna do it No other agenda.

At any rate, the quote is genuine enough. Do a search, and you'll find a quote from a few weeks ago about how the firmware is totally broken - also from Theo.

Jonathan

[itix]

Interesting reading and no wonder he is saying it is not working... Pegasos based on Articia was pure crap. Peg2 has been available only for short time and G3@600MHz probably is not fast enough for OpenBSD. And Pegasos *is* expensive in the North-America.

Let's hope things improve upon time. Would be shame if OpenBSD is not supported.

Shame but that is Amiga world today.

[itix]

Do a search, and you'll find a quote from a few weeks ago about how the firmware is totally broken - also from Theo.

I tried but could not find that. Could you provide a link?

x86 is probably the best platform to run Linux or OpenBSD. And after Pegasos there aint any other sensible platforms... Macs pay like a fortune.


Edit
But Genesi must improve... working like this is no good.

[KennyR]

Sorry Jonathan, it's just that some people like to restart old issues as anonymous posters.

I'm not attacking you. ;-) I appreciate knowing about this, even if I don't like what I read.  I don't understand Theo's hostility, and I want to understand it. If that means uncovering things I don't like then that's how it's gonna have to be. Anyway, I hope the issue with Theo can be resolved soon, possibly by the baseball bat method. (Kidding )

I think that BSD does actually run on Pegasos though, even Peg-1. I have a friend who has it running.

[Hooligan_DCS]

Not that I care about BSD at all.. but..


Subject: Theo De Raadt
 To: None
 From: Adam Glass
 List: netbsd-users
 Date: 12/23/1994 11:26:09
On December 20, Theo de Raadt was asked to resign from the NetBSD
Project by the remaining members of 'core'.  This was a very difficult
decision to make, and resulted from Theo's long history of rudeness
towards and abuse of users and developers of NetBSD.  We believe that
there is no place for that type of behaviour from representatives
of the NetBSD Project, and that, overall, it has been damaging to the
project.

This decision was difficult to make because Theo has a long history of
positive contributions to the project.  He was the principal caretaker
of NetBSD's SPARC support, and has written too much code to mention.
We are certainly willing to accept (and would very much like to see)
future contributions from Theo, but we believe that it is
inappropriate for him to be an "official" representative of the
project any longer.

Please direct replies to core@NetBSD.ORG.

later,
Adam Glass



source: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/1994/12/23/0000.html

[Batman]

The fact that Theo is a bit "egocentric" and "rude" doesn't imply that he isn't good at his job: programming and creating operating systems. This is even confirmed in that netbsd's mail.  :-)

BTW, badmouthing a very well known and competent person like Theo is a very very bad way of defending Genesi/Pegasos. :-( The next time you and your fellowship play this fair game with Theo and other very brave non amiga-people, I'll point this thread to their attention. :-D

[AmigaWun]

This Theo looks like part of the younger "ME ME ME" generation. All wanting everything NOW and not prepared to wait a little while with no sense of community and awareness of the people around who he would be supporting by just being more patient with Genesi

Like Amiga os 4 we will wait until an OS is complete and truly bug free before it is release. That's the nature of Community, and anyone falling out already is in my mind maybhe not someone who deserves respect. The same I can see with Genesi if they take a little longer to ship a product it's out of support for the community and getting thing's right.

I've written Theo to tell him to wait. It might take a month or two until he gets his Pegasos board but it's worth it in the end. If we all do the same we can perhaps drag him back to a sense of something hes lost.

Or maybe he'll want to stay part of the "now" generation as in I WANT IT NOW NOW NOW.!!

[KennyR]

Batman wrote:
BTW, badmouthing a very well known and competent person like Theo is a very very bad way of defending Genesi/Pegasos.

Who's badmouthing Theo here? Nobody I can see. According to what Hooligan (NOT magnetic :-P) posted he was asked to resign for being rude. Nobody here is badmouthing Theo, and more to the point nobody here is badmouthing him to defend Genesi or Pegasos.

So I'm afraid the evil Genesi followers can't be blamed for this one, sir.

[Hooligan_DCS]

>The fact that Theo is a bit "egocentric" and "rude" doesn't imply that he isn't good at his job: programming and creating operating systems. This is even confirmed in that netbsd's mail.

I haven't said so.


>BTW, badmouthing a very well known and competent person like Theo is a very very bad way of defending Genesi/Pegasos. The next time you and your fellowship play this fair game with Theo and other very brave non amiga-people, I'll point this thread to their attention.

Lets see... his points one by one

"Nothing really works, it is all about 4 years from ever going anywhere, they are essentially bankrupt, the machine architecture is more closed than the PC architecture -- the machines are SLOW and will be expensive"

If nothing works, how I was able to use Pegasos1 for a year or so, and now Pegasos2, both as my mainmachines.
About bankcrupsy.. wonder on what he bases this information of his.
Plus, I don't find 1ghz Pegasos2 either slow, or expensive.

"I suspect the North American wing of this is an investment scam operating; since it owns nothing, and it appears some European outfit owns all the hardware."

Could be. Would like to see some documents or proof of this though.

"In any case, I am quite confident that there are almost NO WORKING machines in existance -- and we've got some mail that makes that clear."

Here he is just lying and making an ass of himself.

"Apparently there are only a handful of working G4 cpus in
North America..."

Again more BS. Unless he is talking about G4 for Pegasos1, that is.


Whats left of his post? Pretty much nothing. I'm sure he is a competent coder, but a lot of of things doesnt match on his post. Credibility is down to zero unless he backs up some of his claims.

[Batman]

Read the reply to Theo on that mailing list, from a coder who essentially has confirmed his impressions.

http://www.sigmasoft.com/~openbsd/archive/openbsd-misc/200403/msg01084.html

Please, don't start bluetrolling again and look at the bare facts.  :-)

[Hooligan_DCS]

I read it long time ago. How does this change anything?

Is Genesi now more fraudcompany?
Is Genesi now more ready to file bankcrupsy?
Are there now even less working G4's?
Are there now even less working Pegasos-machines?


All I need is some backing for his claims, thats all. And calling me a blue troll will only make me more red ;-)

[Batman]

Well, there is Diana's experience with Genesi to back up Theo's claims. I think it's enough as a proof.  :-D

[Hooligan_DCS]

@Batman

Ok...