Wolfenstein 3D IS technically possible on stock A500 shocker!

[Digiman]

I've never seen Wolfenstein 3D run on a stock Amiga, suspect if it even exists it is not full screen (320x200 NTSC not PAL 320x256 full screen).

And how did I come to this conclusion? Well simple. Search out a little game by Domark called Battle Frenzy/Bloodshot for the Sega Megadrive...a machine with no blitter and just powerful sprites/scrolling hardware via a 7.5mhz 68000 CPU with DMA channels just like an Amiga. Of course I presume it has no DSP in the cartridge because it is not one of the ultra rare DSP games for that system unlike the pathetic lump of shit by Nintendo which needed a DSP even for launch games like Pilot Wings :roflmao:

So if anyone knows where Wolfenstein 3D in full screen engine is for Amiga 500 please point me towards it

Now interestingly if this game engine can be ported to Amiga 500 (it's 68k code after all) then you should be able to easily do a passable and FAST Doom full screen in 32 colours too with the extra CPU grunt of a stock 2mb Amiga 1200. All that's different is the textured floor and wall superficially. Doesn't have to be perfect but it would be better than anything else I've seen on AGA running on a stock A1200 really.

You tube it, you will be impressed.

*zips up flame proof jacket VERY tightly*

[B00tDisk]

I've never seen Wolfenstein 3D run on a stock Amiga, suspect if it even exists it is not full screen (320x200 NTSC not PAL 320x256 full screen).

And how did I come to this conclusion? Well simple. Search out a little game by Domark called Battle Frenzy/Bloodshot for the Sega Megadrive...a machine with no blitter and just powerful sprites/scrolling hardware via a 7.5mhz 68000 CPU with DMA channels just like an Amiga. Of course I presume it has no DSP in the cartridge because it is not one of the ultra rare DSP games for that system unlike the pathetic lump of shit by Nintendo which needed a DSP even for launch games like Pilot Wings :roflmao:

So if anyone knows where Wolfenstein 3D in full screen engine is for Amiga 500 please point me towards it

Now interestingly if this game engine can be ported to Amiga 500 (it's 68k code after all) then you should be able to easily do a passable and FAST Doom full screen in 32 colours too with the extra CPU grunt of a stock 2mb Amiga 1200. All that's different is the textured floor and wall superficially. Doesn't have to be perfect but it would be better than anything else I've seen on AGA running on a stock A1200 really.

You tube it, you will be impressed.

*zips up flame proof jacket VERY tightly*

Citadel is a Wolf-3d like game that'll run on an A500 with 1mb RAM (if that counts as "stock").

(Also, Wolf3d is available for both the Apple II/GS and the Atari 800! )

[Tempest]

Nah, that would be impossible, the a500 is totally underpowered.
The following videos might be shocking to some people...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ODNdKanGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZywAxfGkw

[Digiman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9MU6NO-FU

Check that video out, it is the Wolfenstein engine to all intents and purposes really. Neither Megadrive/Genesis has any extra hardware beyond the 7.???mhz 68000 cpu to help render the graphics so why is it possible on the Sega and not on Amiga. Different game but the engine is very similar. Just like Lotus 2 + hacked graphics = dirty port of Outrun for Amiga.

(1mb is fine, even today a 1mb upgrade for Amiga 500s cost peanuts on ebay and there were a fair number of 1mb only games even early on like Dungeon Master)

[psxphill]

And how did I come to this conclusion? Well simple. Search out a little game by Domark called Battle Frenzy/Bloodshot for the Sega Megadrive...a machine with no blitter and just powerful sprites/scrolling hardware via a 7.5mhz 68000 CPU with DMA channels just like an Amiga. Of course I presume it has no DSP in the cartridge because it is not one of the ultra rare DSP games for that system unlike the pathetic lump of shit by Nintendo which needed a DSP even for launch games like Pilot Wings :roflmao:

The major difference is the tile vs bitmap, so it wouldn't be easy to just port it.
 
The trick of having the bottom of the screen being a mirror image of the top would be easy with a copper list though.
 
Lack of sprites might be a problem for bullets, enemies, barrels & weapons. You may have to use dual play field for that or not use a copper list for the mirroring and just copy the data twice (either with the cpu or the blitter).
 
S.F: Bloodshot is one of the only 3d games for the Megadrive. How powerful was the Megadrive when it came to doing 3D games?
J.B: Not at all. It is a bodge based on the character-based hardware. You had about enough characters to uniquely map about a third of the screen. The ‘polygons’ were inspired by the Wolfenstein 3D approach, they are all made from vertical strips. You might notice that the walls are effectively ‘reflected’ about the centre line using the character map. This is so only half of the walls actually needs to be drawn. I used a palette effect to disguise the reflection, and sprites for the ceiling light to further hide it. The rasterisation was done with about 750K of pre-generated code in order to reduce the cycle-time per pixel and to draw it all in time. It was quite an innovative effect in my opinion, and as you say it is fairly unique to have 3D on the Megadrive.

[Digiman]

Nah, that would be impossible, the a500 is totally underpowered.
The following videos might be shocking to some people...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ODNdKanGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZywAxfGkw

Doom port exists for the Spectrum too....essentially 1bit graphics though :eek:

The A8 port of Wolf is not really finished, there is no allowance for game code, and I believe it is using some weird 80x80 pixel screen mode. Looks good though, hope they have enough CPU time to make it into a game and it isn't another let down like the Shadow of the Beast rolling demo coded for the 128k Amstrad 8bit computers which can never be used for a game.

[Digiman]

The major difference is the tile vs bitmap, so it wouldn't be easy to just port it.
 
The trick of having the bottom of the screen being a mirror image of the top would be easy with a copper list though.
 
S.F: Bloodshot is one of the only 3d games for the Megadrive. How powerful was the Megadrive when it came to doing 3D games?
J.B: Not at all. It is a bodge based on the character-based hardware. You had about enough characters to uniquely map about a third of the screen. The ‘polygons’ were inspired by the Wolfenstein 3D approach, they are all made from vertical strips. You might notice that the walls are effectively ‘reflected’ about the centre line using the character map. This is so only half of the walls actually needs to be drawn. I used a palette effect to disguise the reflection, and sprites for the ceiling light to further hide it. The rasterisation was done with about 750K of pre-generated code in order to reduce the cycle-time per pixel and to draw it all in time. It was quite an innovative effect in my opinion, and as you say it is fairly unique to have 3D on the Megadrive.

Ahh ok yes, tile graphics make a big difference, it's why Powerdrift on the C64 is more impressive than the Amiga port (which is an ST-port anyway)

[Franko]

After looking at those vids, I'd reckon none of them would be worth bothering about trying to convert them to the Amiga... just more of the same old stuff that's already available for the miggie...

[commodorejohn]

Yeah, it's frankly amazing that anybody got 3D games running on the Genesis at all - it pushes tiles and sprites beautifully, but tile-oriented 3D rendering is at least as terrible as planar 3D rendering. I don't doubt that it's possible to run Wolf3D on a 500 (given sufficient RAM,) but it would take a smart coder who knows more than just how to re-jigger the source code into compiling for the 68K - you're not going to get acceptable performance running a renderer written for chunky bitmaps on planar hardware.

[Tempest]

Doom port exists for the Spectrum too....essentially 1bit graphics though :eek:

The A8 port of Wolf is not really finished, there is no allowance for game code, and I believe it is using some weird 80x80 pixel screen mode. Looks good though, hope they have enough CPU time to make it into a game and it isn't another let down like the Shadow of the Beast rolling demo coded for the 128k Amstrad 8bit computers which can never be used for a game.

Yes, there's even a Doom port for the Spectrum, I haven't tryed it yet. The Atari port of Wolfestein is just a proof of concept (for now), but it really looks good.

That's what I love most about the 8-bit scene, people are trying to get the most out of  the available hardware. There are also some very cool demo's for the zx81 (my first computer), like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpsvgWsTX1I&feature=related.

That's something you don't see very often for a stock Amiga 500 nowadays.

[nicholas]

Yes, there's even a Doom port for the Spectrum, I haven't tryed it yet. The Atari port of Wolfestein is just a proof of concept (for now), but it really looks good.

That's what I love most about the 8-bit scene, people are trying to get the most out of  the available hardware. There are also some very cool demo's for the zx81 (my first computer), like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpsvgWsTX1I&feature=related.

That's something you don't see very often for a stock Amiga 500 nowadays.

In the 8bit scenes people accept that the past has passed and just enjoy the hardware for what it is.

Unlike some of the loonies we get in the Amiga scene.

[Tempest]

In the 8bit scenes people accept that the past has passed and just enjoy the hardware for what it is.

Unlike some of the loonies we get in the Amiga scene.

Excactly.

[nicholas]

Excactly.

I love my 64 and Plus/4 like they are my own children.

I'm tempted to buy an Atari 800 one of these days though.

[Digiman]

After looking at those vids, I'd reckon none of them would be worth bothering about trying to convert them to the Amiga... just more of the same old stuff that's already available for the miggie...

More about porting that superfast engine and tacking on Wolf3D graphics. Wouldn't be bothered about the actual game.

Just a nice two fingered salute @ 386 PC fanboys :roflmao:

[Tempest]

I love my 64 and Plus/4 like they are my own children.

I'm tempted to buy an Atari 800 one of these days though.

The Atari 8bit is a very cool computer, it was my second computer and I always regret selling it to get a c64.

I've got one now expanded with 256K, Super Video upgrade and a SIO2SD which I put in a 1064 memory expansion case.