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AuthorTopic: HDMI to Component questions  (Read 493 times)

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Offline amigadave

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HDMI to Component questions
« on: November 20, 2014, 11:14:06 PM »
This is not entirely related to Amiga Gaming, but does apply to very narrow circumstances when talking about NG Amiga Gaming display from the HDMI output on some of the newer video cards and trying to connect that output to the input on an older (one of the first made) HD televisions that does not have HDMI inputs, only Coaxial, Composite, S-Video, and Component.

The Component input on my old rear screen projection HD television is the best available input of all those I listed above.  The TV has 2 separate Component inputs, so multiple devices can be connected and switched to with the Input Select function of the TV.

My question is this; HDMI is a digital signal, while Component RGB is an analog signal, but I see many cables available which are HDMI on one end and Component Video and Stereo Audio (5 RCA jacks) at the other end.  How can such a cable work, if no conversion of the digital to analog signal is taking place?  Would the use of such a simple and inexpensive cable harm any devices at either end, if plugged in to see if it would work?

I have looked for HDMI to Component Video and Stereo Audio adapters/convertors, but they are fairly rare.  Most devices are only designed for the reverse, to convert Component output to HDMI input, so that some of the older Game Consoles, like the PS3, or X-Box One (which I believe have Component output RCA jacks, but no HDMI outputs), can work with newer monitors or TV's which only have Composite, Coaxial and HDMI inputs (some of the newest monitors and TV's don't even come with coaxial inputs any longer).

I have no problem buying the correct convertor box to do the digital to analog conversion from HDMI output from my video card (as well as my Blu-Ray player) to Component Video & Stereo Audio, so I can connect to the best inputs on my old large screen projection 1080i or 1080p TV, but I thought I would ask the smartest people I know (fellow Amiga.org members) if they have ever had any experience with these cheap cables, to ask if they will damage any of my equipment if I plug them into my TV to test what results I would get.

I don't understand why such a cable would be manufactured (and there are tons of these cables available), if they can't be used on anything.

Can any of you explain this to me, and why such cables exist in such large numbers from so many different outlets, if they won't work, because of the digital to analog signals present on the two different connection standards?
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Offline magnetic

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 01:07:13 AM »
Dave good luck with that one id suggest using an actual rgb to component adaptor. I think a couple people in the community make them.
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Offline Rob

 

Offline magnetic

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 01:12:47 AM »
good find!
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Offline amigadave

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Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 04:41:36 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys, but I have already found a few HDMI to Component Video & Stereo Audio converter boxes that I can buy.  Converting to S-Cart and then using an S-Cart to Component cable set doesn't really help answer any of my questions, though I appreciate you finding that and trying to help.

If you read my OP again, you will see that the questions I am asking are about the widely available HDMI to Component Video & Stereo Audio cables, and how they can be of any use when the signals are digital on one side and analog on the other side.  Also, can any of the connected devices be damaged by plugging in one of those cables when no conversion is taking place?  In other words, what happens when you plug a digital HDMI Blu-Ray player into an analog Component TV input?

I have found the adapter I need and will order one of them today or tomorrow.  I also have a $4 cable that will arrive in a few days, but did not want to risk damaging any of my equipment by testing it, unless my smart friends at Amiga.org know the answer and tell me that there is zero chance that testing the results of that cable will damage any equipment at either end of the cable.  I had already ordered the cable before I thought about the differences in the two signal types used and wondered how such a cable could work.  Since so many of those cables are being sold, I wondered what they are being used for and if they had the potential to cause damage, I would think that they would be pulled off the market, instead of selling in the tens of thousands by every distributor who sells them.  There is another potential problem with those simple pass-through cables that do zero conversion of digital signal to analog signal, and that is HDCP.  It is my understanding that all output from devices designed to display copyrighted media send the signal out encrypted for it to be decrypted at the other end, so if this old HD rear projection TV does not have HDCP built-in, it won't be able to display the video output from my Blu-Ray player anyway, but my understanding of HDCP is very limited, so I might be wrong.

To hook up a Commodore Amiga with RGB port for video output, I will look into buying one of the community hand made RGB to Component adapters, but that is another topic and problem to solve, not related to these questions.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 04:57:44 AM by amigadave »
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Offline AmmoJammo

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 11:37:00 AM »
Some devices with a HDMI output can (I believe) output an analogue signal from the HDMI port, and therefore be used with a passive cable.

If your device doesn't support this, it won't work.

Any kind of digital to analogue converter is going to be a compromise, resulting in a pretty average picture.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 11:56:27 AM »
Quote from: AmmoJammo;777927
Some devices with a HDMI output can (I believe) output an analogue signal from the HDMI port, and therefore be used with a passive cable.

If your device doesn't support this, it won't work.

Any kind of digital to analogue converter is going to be a compromise, resulting in a pretty average picture.


There is no provision for analog in the HDMI spec: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

DVI does offer the option of an analog backup, but it's not used much nowadays the pins seem to be missing from modern devices.

Offline Jose

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 09:49:44 PM »
Have you ever heard of the HDFury ? It was deemed illegal after a few years, don't know the current situation, but you can get one on eBay (as much as I don't like eBay company for having raised fees through the years...). It has a great DAC, I'm using the 1st version that came out with an old Nokia CRT monitor and the image is great. The 1st generations spawn 3 versions. Be carefull to choose your version as some production runs had some problems but the good ones were very very good, about as good as CRT and analog projectors can get.
Later on there were also newer versions which included a scaler but IIRC needed a modified firmware to bypass the HDCP problem. That was the way they found to circumvent it without anyone coming after them. The irony is that there are and were lower quality devices mainly from china, offering the same function on eBay and other sites and nobody said anything about those...
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Offline Jose

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 09:54:52 PM »
BTW, for component output you'll need at least an HDFury2 (again be careful to choose the version, IRC there were some problematic 1st runs of the HDFury2 and it's firmware), the 1st version only supports RGB output.
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Offline stefcep2

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 03:24:05 AM »
Apologies if I offend but Jesus H Christ some of you need to actually READ the OP's post before firing off with totally irrelevant to him suggestions of hardware he could buy.

He DOES NOT WANT YOUR HARDWARE RECOMMENDATIONS!!!  <------read several time before posting.

He wants to know why would there be so many converter cables without DAC converters for sale

He wants to know if he uses one could it damage his hardware.

Thats all he wants.

FFS!
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2014, 10:09:46 AM »
I found this one on eBay: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=171379946068

Note the description: "Some buyers said it useful, Some say it not, but the cable is the same, not the quality issue,it's the usage problem. Please consideration carefully before bidding"

This is clearly just a scam, a few $0.1 components stuck together with no hope of working, charging $2, the seller is making quite a profit per cable and it's so cheap, no one will bother to complain.

Offline Terminills

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 01:06:29 AM »
They are used on some modern capture cards.  Avertv HD DVR Uses an hdmi header on the board with a breakout cable for analog inputs.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 01:16:59 AM by Terminills »
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edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline billt

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2014, 02:31:01 AM »
Bill T
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Offline billt

Re: HDMI to Component questions
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 02:36:16 AM »
Quote from: AmmoJammo;777927
Some devices with a HDMI output can (I believe) output an analogue signal from the HDMI port, and therefore be used with a passive cable.

If your device doesn't support this, it won't work.

Any kind of digital to analogue converter is going to be a compromise, resulting in a pretty average picture.


I was surprised to learn of these cables the other day. It seems a lot of buyers on Amazon thought that they were converters, but are unhappy that they are nonfunctional cables only, which must be some non-standard thing.

http://www.amazon.com/eForCity-538581-HDMI-Cable-5-Feet/dp/B005QWH4QA/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416710068&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=hdmu+component
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