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Operating System Specific Discussions => MorphOS => MorphOS -- Application questions and support => Topic started by: zylesea on May 27, 2013, 10:24:37 PM

Title: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on May 27, 2013, 10:24:37 PM
MorphOS 3.2 is out. And the update is simply massive!
Support for G5s, more Powerbooks, g4 ibooks and R300 3D-support are highlights at the hardware side, a new netstack (much faster!) and many, many more improvements, additions are part of this free update.

Read the release notes: http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.2
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: kickstart on May 27, 2013, 10:33:23 PM
Really nice!

Thank you all involved.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Crumb on May 27, 2013, 10:54:18 PM
oh yeah!
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on May 27, 2013, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736107
MorphOS 3.2 is out. And the update is simply massive!
Support for G5s, more Powerbooks, g4 ibooks and R300 3D-support are highlights at the hardware side, a new netstack (much faster!) and many, many more improvements, additions are part of this free update.

Read the release notes: http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.2


IMPORTANT:

The current iso file has a corrupted boot.img that fails on Mac computers. Don't burn the iso unless you want to install to Pegasos or Efika. Wait for a fixed iso (should be released very soon) for Mac computers..
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 27, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736107
MorphOS 3.2 is out. And the update is simply massive!
Support for G5s, more Powerbooks, g4 ibooks and R300 3D-support are highlights at the hardware side, a new netstack (much faster!) and many, many more improvements, additions are part of this free update.

Read the release notes: http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.2


Woohoo!  Downloaderising now.

Thank you very much MOS-Team, truly the best coders in the Amiga scene by far! :)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Kawazu on May 27, 2013, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736113
IMPORTANT:

The current iso file has a corrupted boot.img that fails on Mac computers. Don't burn the iso unless you want to install to Pegasos or Efika. Wait for a fixed iso (should be released very soon) for Mac computers..



Thank you for the information.
Just tried my new burnt cd and i got an error about it on my mac mini. You juat saved me alot of googling :-)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 27, 2013, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736113
IMPORTANT:

The current iso file has a corrupted boot.img that fails on Mac computers. Don't burn the iso unless you want to install to Pegasos or Efika. Wait for a fixed iso (should be released very soon) for Mac computers..


So I shouldn't just copy the files from the iso image to MOSSYS: then?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on May 27, 2013, 11:47:32 PM
nicholas:

No without the 3.2 boot.img (i.e. with teh 3.1 boot.img) MorphOS 3.2 will not work properly. Wait for the fix.

I guess the boot.img is just wrongly zipped or something like that, hence I expect the fixed iso really soon (tonight or tomorrow).
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 27, 2013, 11:55:00 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736120
nicholas:

No without the 3.2 boot.img (i.e. with teh 3.1 boot.img) MorphOS 3.2 will not work properly. Wait for the fix.

I guess the boot.img is just wrongly zipped or something like that, hence I expect the fixed iso really soon (tonight or tomorrow).


OK thanks.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on May 28, 2013, 12:05:51 AM
Command back - I was messing with the wrong boot.img.
_Update_ process on macs is easy:
Copy boot.img from the CD's drawer Mac_ppc32 to your boot: partition (mount it if necessay) by hand, then boot from teh CD and proceed with teh installation. That way worked fine for me, but be careful when messing with teh boot: partition, you can render your system easily to non booting.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 12:09:11 AM
Quote from: zylesea;736122
Command back - I was messing with the wrong boot.img.
_Update_ process on macs is easy:
Copy boot.img from the CD's drawer Mac_ppc32 to your boot: partition (mount it if necessay) by hand, then boot from teh CD and proceed with teh installation. That way worked fine for me, but be careful when messing with teh boot: partition, you can render your system easily to non booting.


I just saw a comment on morphzone saying the same thing, thanks anyway. :)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2 [ISO-problem solved!]
Post by: takemehomegrandma on May 28, 2013, 12:15:16 AM
Quote from: nicholas;736123
I just saw a comment on morphzone saying the same thing, thanks anyway. :)


Piru (1): "We've identified the issue that makes the ISO unbootable, and are now trying to identify the root cause for the problem. Apologies for the trouble this has caused. We're looking to fix the issue as soon as possible."

Piru (2): "We're making progress and if all goes well will have a fixed ISO momentarily."

So hold your horses a few more minutes, and watch Pirus status reports on the matter in this MZ thread (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2046&mode=flat&order=0&storypage=-1&Start=16)!
.

EDIT:

Piru (3): "New ISOs are now online. This new image should resolve the issue of not being able to boot the ISO properly. If you however managed to install the earlier ISO (via copying the boot.img manually for instance) there is no need to install or upgrade again. Apologies again for the inconvenience caused."

:)

(BTW, that was really fast response!)

Great, problem solved! Everyone is free do download away again (remember, it doesn't cost anything at all to download and try the full version of MorphOS. Unregistered [demo]versions has about 30 minutes uptime before the OS turns unbearable slow, but it's fast to reboot, and you can reboot as many times you want, and it's really a full version during those 30 demo minutes, no other limitations!

:)

If your HW is listed here (http://morphos-team.net/hardware), then simply download your free MorphOS ISO Here (http://morphos-team.net/downloads)!

:D
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on May 28, 2013, 12:29:31 AM
UPDATE:

A fixed iso is now available on all official MorphOS sites!

Rock on
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: commodorejohn on May 28, 2013, 12:54:54 AM
Any TiBook support yet?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: takemehomegrandma on May 28, 2013, 01:21:58 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;736128
Any TiBook support yet?


Doesn't seem so? While they do have expanded the supported range of PowerBoks downwards quite a bit from the top-of-the-line models they previously supported (now they support *all* Aluminium models with Radeons), I think they drew the line there, just before the Ti models. Who knows, maybe they will support the older and slower Ti generations in the future, who knows?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 02:02:00 AM
(https://sintonen.fi/pics/mplayer_benchmark.png)
(https://sintonen.fi/pics/lame_benchmark.png)

I think the figures speak for themselves here! ;)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Matt_H on May 28, 2013, 02:16:34 AM
New season of Arrested Development and MorphOS in the same weekend. Woo hoo! :)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on May 28, 2013, 02:38:31 AM
Now I have a reason to buy a G5.   :-)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 02:56:06 AM
I wish Hyperion would port OS4 to Macs too then people could compare the two side by side so to speak.

They seem to be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 03:00:05 AM
Now I have to test the new Netstack to see if I can reach the 4 Megabytes per second downloads I get under Linux on my Macbook Pro.

I notice there is no bcm4138.device for the Airport adapter in my PowerBook though. :(
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2 [ISO-problem solved!]
Post by: LoadWB on May 28, 2013, 03:00:29 AM
Hell, yeah!!  I've been wanting to get MorphOS on an aluminum PowerBook I picked up a while back.  Can't wait to give it a whirl.  Once wireless is working I'll be REALLY rockin'!
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2 [ISO-problem solved!]
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 03:12:24 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;736142
Hell, yeah!!  I've been wanting to get MorphOS on an aluminum PowerBook I picked up a while back.  Can't wait to give it a whirl.  Once wireless is working I'll be REALLY rockin'!

I use one of these for now.  Once the Airport adapter is supported I'll just use it on my A3000.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251234223296?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2 [ISO-problem solved!]
Post by: Crumb on May 28, 2013, 11:25:44 AM
looks nice for powerbook, I think there are 3G&WiFi ones too
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: ciVic on May 28, 2013, 12:43:17 PM
I can see that iBooks are now supported. Since they are cheap, I would like to buy one. But I cannot find any info that the internal network adapter of the iBook is supported?

And another question: I've tried to boot MorphOS on a Powermac7,2 (G5). As stated on the support hardware list, this does not work. I can only see a blank screen. But why it is not supported? Would be nice if I could use it on my Powermac.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: stevee617 on May 28, 2013, 01:34:39 PM
ciVic: This supported G5 is a PowerMac G5 7,3 (A1047). It may work on a 7,2, make sure you have an supported ATI video card.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Geit on May 28, 2013, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: ciVic;736171
I can see that iBooks are now supported. Since they are cheap, I would like to buy one. But I cannot find any info that the internal network adapter of the iBook is supported?


Network is supported, wifi is not.

Quote from: ciVic;736171
And another question: I've tried to boot MorphOS on a Powermac7,2 (G5). As stated on the support hardware list, this does not work. I can only see a blank screen. But why it is not supported? Would be nice if I could use it on my Powermac.


Why is it not running on x86 or ARM? It would be so nice!

This update supported tons of new systems, so take it or leave it. :)

 Geit
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: takemehomegrandma on May 28, 2013, 02:23:26 PM
Quote from: nicholas;736135
(https://sintonen.fi/pics/mplayer_benchmark.png)
(https://sintonen.fi/pics/lame_benchmark.png)

I think the figures speak for themselves here! ;)


Very nice indeed! :D

:)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: ciVic on May 28, 2013, 02:37:11 PM
Actually it is a nvidia card. Any suggestion which Radeon card I should use to replace the nvidia one?

@Geit The question was rather if I can do something to make MorphOS possible on it. And it seems so :-)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: som99 on May 28, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
Time to dust of my 1,42GHz mac mini again, big thanks :)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on May 28, 2013, 03:23:14 PM
Someone can confirm me if this card works with my Powerbook:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-476106913-adaptador-wireless-108mbps-placa-pcmcia-d-link-dwl-g650-_JM
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 28, 2013, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;736193
Someone can confirm me if this card works with my Powerbook:

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-476106913-adaptador-wireless-108mbps-placa-pcmcia-d-link-dwl-g650-_JM


If this is a rev B or C then it might work with the atheros5000.device driver.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: billt on May 28, 2013, 05:41:42 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736107
MorphOS 3.2 is out. And the update is simply massive!
Support for G5s, more Powerbooks, g4 ibooks and R300 3D-support are highlights at the hardware side, a new netstack (much faster!) and many, many more improvements, additions are part of this free update.

Read the release notes: http://www.morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.2


Sounds like it's finally time to get my LCD fixed for my A1134 iBook, and find a new battery for it.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: billt on May 29, 2013, 12:17:47 AM
Quote
iBook & PowerBook:

    Turn on the PowerBook.
    In order to eject a previously inserted disc from your optical drive, press and hold your left mouse button during the reboot or power on process.
    Insert the MorphOS CD immediately while holding the 'C' key.
    If the notebook does not boot MorphOS or it has already booted another operating system, reboot and press and hold the 'C' key immediately after the welcome chime. Alternatively you can press and hold the Alt key to get to the Powerbook's boot menu.
    MorphOS will now start booting. Once it is done booting, follow the on screen
    instructions.


Left Mouse Button? It's a Mac. Uhh... :p
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: takemehomegrandma on May 29, 2013, 12:27:49 AM
Quote from: billt;736235
Left Mouse Button? It's a Mac. Uhh... :p


I was recently instructed by a 7-year old that there is actually a 4-finger sweep mode on the IPad! And it actually turned out to be kind of useful... ;)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Colani1200 on May 31, 2013, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: stevee617;736174
ciVic: This supported G5 is a PowerMac G5 7,3 (A1047). It may work on a 7,2, make sure you have an supported ATI video card.


Mine has a 9600 Pro, which is supposed to be supported. But I also get a blank screen only, just like ciVic. Bad luck, seems MorphOS doesn't work on the 7,2.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Duce on May 31, 2013, 04:20:12 PM
Supports the built in wifi on all the compatible laptops now, I assume?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 31, 2013, 04:24:16 PM
Quote from: Duce;736476
Supports the built in wifi on all the compatible laptops now, I assume?


No, that needs a bcm4138.device to be written.

I'm using a Netgear WG511T PCCard for now and it works very well.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Duce on May 31, 2013, 07:46:45 PM
Thanks for the reply, Nicholas.  Any eta on that particular device driver?

Had a ppc mac laptop sitting here for ages, but it's essentially a doorstop to me without the inbuilt wifi working.  I've tried an add on card.  Wifi works fine with that obviously, but battery life falls right apart.  It's not an option on a portable machine to me as I have very limited access to mains power on portable machines.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: mykrowyre on May 31, 2013, 10:13:49 PM
How do I upgrade my 3.1  mac mini to 3.2?  I can't seem to be able to burn an iso from MorphoOs, I can't boot from a thumb drive because the mac won't boot from a USB device which is not OSX...

Ideas?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 31, 2013, 10:34:43 PM
Quote from: Duce;736494
Thanks for the reply, Nicholas.  Any eta on that particular device driver?

Had a ppc mac laptop sitting here for ages, but it's essentially a doorstop to me without the inbuilt wifi working.  I've tried an add on card.  Wifi works fine with that obviously, but battery life falls right apart.  It's not an option on a portable machine to me as I have very limited access to mains power on portable machines.


I get at least 2 hrs battery life under heavy use (Compiling C, surfing tbe net, reading PDFs etc) with the PCCard and when I used an Ethernet WiFi dongle I got about the same. With light use I get more.

Not sure when the Broadcom driver will be released, maybe with 3.3?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on May 31, 2013, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: mykrowyre;736508
How do I upgrade my 3.1  mac mini to 3.2?  I can't seem to be able to burn an iso from MorphoOs, I can't boot from a thumb drive because the mac won't boot from a USB device which is not OSX...

Ideas?


Download the 3.2 iso to your DH1: partition.
Boot the Mac from your old 3.1/3.0 CD.
Rename DH1:MorphOS to DH1:MorphOS_3.1
Rename DH0:boot.img to DH0:boot.img_3.1
Double click the morphos-3.2.iso you saved to DH1:
Drag the MorphOS folder to DH1:
Double click the macppc32 folder and drag boot.img to DH0:
Eject CD.
Reboot
Profit! :)

ps To burn an iso from MorphOS you just need to right click the .iso file and click Burn.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: mykrowyre on June 01, 2013, 01:51:52 AM
Quote from: nicholas;736511
Download the 3.2 iso to your DH1: partition.
Boot the Mac from your old 3.1/3.0 CD.
Rename DH1:MorphOS to DH1:MorphOS_3.1
Rename DH0:boot.img to DH0:boot.img_3.1
Double click the morphos-3.2.iso you saved to DH1:
Drag the MorphOS folder to DH1:
Double click the macppc32 folder and drag boot.img to DH0:
Eject CD.
Reboot
Profit! :)

ps To burn an iso from MorphOS you just need to right click the .iso file and click Burn.


AAhhhh that's just embarassing.  I didn't know you could just right click and choose burn.

Thanks for the info on both methods... have archived it away just in case I need it again.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: billt on June 01, 2013, 02:21:08 AM
Quote from: nicholas;736511

ps To burn an iso from MorphOS you just need to right click the .iso file and click Burn.


Again with the left or right clicking on a Mac. Does MOS follow the ctrl-click for right-click tradition? or is there something different in MOS?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on June 01, 2013, 04:15:40 AM
Quote from: billt;736530
Again with the left or right clicking on a Mac. Does MOS follow the ctrl-click for right-click tradition? or is there something different in MOS?


Two finger tap on the track pad for right click, my Apple Magic Mouse has 5 buttons, I don't think Apple have sold mice with only one button for about 7 or 8 years at least.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: LoadWB on June 04, 2013, 05:09:00 PM
I have an iBook G3 and a Titanium G4.  What's the MorphOS support position for these?  I'd been holding on to the G4 for a future MorphOS release, and I'm thinking I just need to jettison the G3.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: pVC on June 04, 2013, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: billt;736530
Again with the left or right clicking on a Mac. Does MOS follow the ctrl-click for right-click tradition? or is there something different in MOS?

There are many ways to achieve RMB on MorphOS.

Easiest is of course to use any standard USB mouse and that's what sane people do instead of using touchpad ;)

But then other options:

- You can use ramiga+ralt keyboard combination as on any Amiga (rapple+key next to it on PB for example)

- You have configurable options for trackpad. RMB can be achieved with two fingers click or holding two fingers and pressing the one and only button

- You can use ShiftClick commodity provided with the OS. With it you can configure qualifier key which you should hold while pressing the button. Selectable qualifier keys are: left shift, right shift, control, left command, right command, left alt and right alt.

There might be other options too, but these are by default at least :)


Quote from: mykrowyre;736525
AAhhhh that's just embarassing.  I didn't know you could just right click and choose burn.

You could also browse to SYS:Applications/Jalapeno and start the burning software yourself.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on June 04, 2013, 10:25:44 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;736776
I have an iBook G3 and a Titanium G4.  What's the MorphOS support position for these?  I'd been holding on to the G4 for a future MorphOS release, and I'm thinking I just need to jettison the G3.


I think there's rather litle hope for support of these older computers. The cost/benefit ratio supportimg these is probably not a good one. ibooks G4 and Al-Powerbooks are plentiful and cheaply available.
Some Ti-Powerbooks have still atrractive enough specs though.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 04, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
If I were them, I would stop supporting new hardware immediately.
How many different Amiga models we had back then?
I would focus on making the OS run 100% perfect, supporting all hardware features of few great machines like: Mini G4 1.42 (A1200?), PowerMac G5 model XXX (A4000?) and PowerBook 1.67 (A1200m?): Wireless, Bluetooth and etc...

If you compare the most expensive Powerbook 1.67 17 Hires from eBay with the x1000, for example, that decision makes even more sense...

so, IMHO, adding support for new hardware is a waste of precious time from a small group.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on June 04, 2013, 11:04:14 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;736812
If I were them, I would stop supporting new hardware immediately.


My point as well. Polishing MorphOS further and prepare the huge step (i.e. ISA switch) should be #1 now.

PS: your sig seems to be outdated - I guess 3D on your sytems should run now.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 05, 2013, 02:00:37 PM
Signature updated.
BTW, what's ISA switch? Where can I gather more information about it?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: gaula92 on June 05, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
I believe they should have taken advantage of cheap ARM boards (Raspberry Pi, Pandaboard, Beagleboard) and jump in.
PowerPC is a dead end, it's been said hundreds of times before, but paying for a propietary OS on legacy hardware isn't very attractive anymore. I sold the Mac Mini G4 machines I was reserving for future MOS usage and I'm into GNU/Linux + wayland and FPGA Amigas.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 05, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
I think they should add an App Store, make MOS cheaper (~24.99 euros), and get a share (30%?) of app sales. That would boost everything: sales, new software for MOS, interest and etc...
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: gaula92 on June 05, 2013, 02:31:02 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;736890
I think they should add an App Store, make MOS cheaper (~24.99 euros), and get a share (30%?) of app sales. That would boost everything: sales, new software for MOS, interest and etc...

They would still be running on stupid Apple legacy hardware. That's nonsense to begin with.

Just imagine MOS being released on the Raspberry Pi. That's a HUGE opportunity to get a good piece of OS market share! Look at Risc OS: no one knew about it years ago (outside the retro-computing scene, and even then it was a very exotic OS) and now it has became very popular thanks to the Pi.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 05, 2013, 02:33:35 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736892
They would still be running on stupid Apple legacy hardware. That's nonsense to begin with.


Would you rather have *available for cheap* Apple legacy hardware or a overpriced one-off motherboard thats also a deadend and expensive to replace?
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: gaula92 on June 05, 2013, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;736893
Would you rather have *available for cheap* Apple legacy hardware or a overpriced one-off motherboard thats also a deadend and expensive to replace?

Well, I would prefer an good-priced board  that's not a deadend and cheap to replace, like the Raspberry Pi. What we have now, overpriced deadend hardware (OS4) or legacy Apple crapware (MOS) is not desirable at all.
I wouldn't touch an OS4 board with a 10mts pole, if you're talking about that.

But it's Amiga we're talking about. Rational decisions that are good for both final users and developers aren't very common in Amiga-land.

 It has the best user community I have ever seen, tough :)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 05, 2013, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736894
Well, I would prefer an good-priced board  that's not a deadend and cheap to replace, like the Raspberry Pi. What we have now, overpriced deadend hardware (OS4) or legacy Apple crapware (MOS) is not desirable at all.
I wouldn't touch an OS4 board with a 10mts pole, if you're talking about that.

But it's Amiga we're talking about. Rational decisions that are good for both final users and developers aren't very common in Amiga-land.

 It has the best user community I have ever seen, tough :)


Gaula, most of your arguments are strongly subjective. I'll respond in some hours (in a meeting now! :) )
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 05, 2013, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736894
Well, I would prefer an good-priced board  that's not a deadend and cheap to replace, like the Raspberry Pi. What we have now, overpriced deadend hardware (OS4) or legacy Apple crapware (MOS) is not desirable at all.
I wouldn't touch an OS4 board with a 10mts pole, if you're talking about that.

But it's Amiga we're talking about. Rational decisions that are good for both final users and developers aren't very common in Amiga-land.

 It has the best user community I have ever seen, tough :)


I'm not too concerned with a new mobo setup.  I'm content with my G5 and hopefully soon a PowerBook :-)

Baby steps first...I'm sure the MorphOS Dev Team knows which direction to head.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: kickstart on June 05, 2013, 03:03:57 PM
@gaula92

Are you joking about mos on raspberry pi? These motherboards are good for some experiments but for a daily use like main computer i dont see the point.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Crumb on June 05, 2013, 03:09:11 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736894
Well, I would prefer an good-priced board  that's not a deadend and cheap to replace, like the Raspberry Pi.


Unless you plan to run your OS hosted like AROS I would prefer avoiding ARM hardware as the interesting bits like 3D&Video acceleration are usually closed source and the support is achieved through the use of binary objects supplied by manofacturer. I would prefer x86-64 hardware as it's more open, more powerful and even easier to replace than ARM hardware.

Since team's resources are tight I prefer having nice powerbooks, mac minis and G5 machines to wait the years we'll need to wait for a proper port. Losing 68k transparent compatibility won't be nice but I guess we'll have to stick to UAE based solutions (not so nice but better than nothing).

About Raspberry Pi: even wondered why there's no proper Android port? the cpu is very weak without GPU assistance.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: gaula92 on June 05, 2013, 03:28:55 PM
Hey Crumb! Another spanish amigan :D

Quote
Unless you plan to run your OS hosted like AROS I would prefer avoiding ARM hardware as the interesting bits like 3D&Video acceleration are usually closed source and the support is achieved through the use of binary objects supplied by manufacturer.

Well, I can program the accelerated DispmanX interface on the Raspberry Pi without any binary blobs. It's enough for an accelerated desktop compositor, as you can see in the Wayland for Raspberry Pi project.

Quote
About Raspberry Pi: even wondered why there's no proper Android port? the cpu is very weak without GPU assistance.

That's not true at all. The Rpi foundation has expressed many times that they're not wasting resources on a proper Android port with full hardware integration because running this OS is not among the Rpi project goals. And I understand it perfectly. I ran Android on the Pandaboard_ES for a while (with both accelerated video and audio APIs) and I came to the conclusion that it's nonsense to have it as a development/experimentation/desktop OS.
Rpi's CPU may not be very fast, but there's no Android platform running the graphical layer on the CPU: it's naturally bounded to GPUs.

This is the future of Amiga OS, the only possible future it has in the long term. Behold, for you will remember my words: AROS on an open hardware platform. It's already booting on the Pi.
When this OS4/MOS absurdity ends, open source Amiga OS will rule, as it's naturally destined to be.

http://www.imagecheese.net/images/img2013031.jpg
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 05, 2013, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736901


When this OS4/MOS absurdity ends, open source Amiga OS will rule, as it's naturally destined to be.

http://www.imagecheese.net/images/img2013031.jpg


pass me some of what he's smoking.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: pVC on June 05, 2013, 04:19:46 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736892
Just imagine MOS being released on the Raspberry Pi. That's a HUGE opportunity to get a good piece of OS market share!

Uh, no thanks. I don't think we'd need any other Efika like experience anymore. MorphOS is for desktop use and it needs memory nowadays, and reasonable powerful CPU doesn't hurt either.

You just couldn't run for example OWB reasonably with Pi's memory.

Switching from PPC to anything else will be really HUGE job. Unti you can't have much better specced system there isn't any point to talk about it. I'll think Pi's life is over before we could get MorphOS ported to it. I bet it's forgotten soon when you get little more powerful comparable systems available. It just got little hype, but that won't last too long. We'd need long term continuity and availablility for any systems we go. Used Macs have been sold that much during the years, that they are safe bet for now.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Crumb on June 05, 2013, 04:19:59 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736901

Well, I can program the accelerated DispmanX interface on the Raspberry Pi without any binary blobs. It's enough for an accelerated desktop compositor, as you can see in the Wayland for Raspberry Pi project.


oh! it seems that 6 months ago Broadcom opensourced some closed source drivers and that most manofacturers won't give you access to the sources.

I was looking at the sources and it looked like external libraries to me (closed source ones until 6 months ago, like most ARM stuff out there).
-DUSE_EXTERNAL_OMX -DHAVE_LIBBCM_HOST -DUSE_EXTERNAL_LIBBCM_HOST
src/rpi-bcm-stubs.h

Quote
That's not true at all. The Rpi foundation has expressed many times that they're not wasting resources on a proper Android port with full hardware integration because running this OS is not among the Rpi project goals.


Afaik Broadcom lost interest on it and without opensource drivers it was more difficult, but I may be wrong

Quote
And I understand it perfectly. I ran Android on the Pandaboard_ES for a while (with both accelerated video and audio APIs)


If the manofacturer of a motherboard (sold with linux as main OS) didn't even support LINUX it would be sad, wouldn't it? That doesn't mean the chip manofacturer is going to supply valuable information to develop drivers for some strange, unknown OS

Quote
and I came to the conclusion that it's nonsense to have it as a development/experimentation/desktop OS.
Rpi's CPU may not be very fast, but there's no Android platform running the graphical layer on the CPU: it's naturally bounded to GPUs.


it's linux after all.

Quote
This is the future of Amiga OS, the only possible future it has in the long term.


Running on ARM instead of x86-64? I don't think so. Phone me when you use ARM desktops. Do you compile all your ARM stuff on x86-64 machines or do you use those ARM toys? Just curious, because most of people developing for ARM simply crosscompile from a serious proper and fast machine.

Quote

Behold, for you will remember my words: AROS on an open hardware platform. It's already booting on the Pi.


I read Kalamatee's message on Aros-Dev list some time ago,

Quote

When this OS4/MOS absurdity ends, open source Amiga OS will rule, as it's naturally destined to be.


It's funny but sometimes linux users preach about opensourceness while they are using closed source drivers :-) It seems they confuse linux with opensourceness and don't know that if something runs linux or runs on top on linux it doesn't mean everything is opensourced or documented.

I would prefer using some nice i7 with a powerful Radeon instead of a toy. But people advocating for ARM usually doesn't even use amiga like systems at all so they don't feel the need of power. Do you use your Raspberry Pi as your main computer? don't you? If you don't then perhaps your arguments are bogus.

I like opensource but I like OS variety. Now go spam linux users complaining about distro absurdity and ask them to join a single distro.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 05, 2013, 04:31:23 PM
Quote from: pvc;736909
uh, no thanks. I don't think we'd need any other efika like experience anymore. Morphos is for desktop use and it needs memory nowadays, and reasonable powerful cpu doesn't hurt either.

You just couldn't run for example owb reasonably with pi's memory.

Switching from ppc to anything else will be really huge job. Unti you can't have much better specced system there isn't any point to talk about it. I'll think pi's life is over before we could get morphos ported to it. I bet it's forgotten soon when you get little more powerful comparable systems available. It just got little hype, but that won't last too long. We'd need long term continuity and availablility for any systems we go. Used macs have been sold that much during the years, that they are safe bet for now.


qft
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on June 05, 2013, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: gaula92;736894
Well, I would prefer an good-priced board  that's not a deadend and cheap to replace, like the Raspberry Pi. What we have now, overpriced deadend hardware (OS4) or legacy Apple crapware (MOS) is not desirable at all.
I wouldn't touch an OS4 board with a 10mts pole, if you're talking about that.

But it's Amiga we're talking about. Rational decisions that are good for both final users and developers aren't very common in Amiga-land.

 It has the best user community I have ever seen, tough :)


The raspberry pi is underwhelming weak. It's appeal is the low price while able to replay full hd. A driver for the gfx accelerator for MorphOS would be rather unrealistic to expect. What would remain is a weak small board with few connectors.
A mac mini is not much more expensive (if you count in PSU, case, MSD), but way more powerful.
Next target: x64!
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: nicholas on June 05, 2013, 05:47:10 PM
Quote from: zylesea;736913
The raspberry pi is underwhelming weak. It's appeal is the low price while able to replay full hd. A driver for the gfx accelerator for MorphOS would be rather unrealistic to expect. What would remain is a weak small board with few connectors.
A mac mini is not much more expensive (if you count in PSU, case, MSD), but way more powerful.
Next target: x64!


Perhaps x32 would be an easier target?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: OlafS3 on June 05, 2013, 06:04:48 PM
some of the "NG" fans are high without even needing something :-)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on June 05, 2013, 06:34:06 PM
maybe easier, but to be future proof you should make most new things in the one jump that introduces incompabilities. Hence, x64 directly.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 05, 2013, 06:42:47 PM
As interesting as it sounds ....let's steer this topic back to 3.2 MorphOS and not porting to other platforms.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: Acill on June 05, 2013, 07:06:51 PM
I just picked up a very nice MDD 1GHZ Powermac for $60 in my area. You can find some great systems if you just look. I dont see the point in wasting time writing in support for something like the Pi when you have a solution like this.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 05, 2013, 08:34:53 PM
The problem is that, any strategy/action might seem pointless if no one envisioned the objective.
What's exactly the "objective" for MorphOS/AROS/AmigaOS4?

For Apple and Microsoft it was always clear: Grow their users base as much close as possible to 100% market share.

If they're trying to "recreate"/"reimagine" what using an Amiga would be nowadays, maybe the best parallel with Commodore would be... Apple and they ended up with "a selected subset" of x86. I'll get back to this later.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: kickstart on June 05, 2013, 09:14:26 PM
mos, os4... are hobby OS, nothing more, but some people here think like a CEO
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: LoadWB on June 05, 2013, 09:23:47 PM
Quote from: kickstart;736941
mos, os4... are hobby OS, nothing more, but some people here think like a CEO


Might not be such a bad thing.  Linux was once just a hobby OS.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 05, 2013, 09:40:33 PM
Quote from: kickstart;736941
mos, os4... are hobby OS, nothing more, but some people here think like a CEO


Well, not me...
That's why I asked about what's the objective. You say "Hobby OS". Fine.
Can you please help me with that definition? I tried Wikipedia with no luck....
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on June 05, 2013, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;736937
The problem is that, any strategy/action might seem pointless if no one envisioned the objective.
What's exactly the "objective" for MorphOS?


AFAIU: Making a good Amigaish OS and having fun.
World domination probably was #3 on that list.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: TheMagicM on June 06, 2013, 12:19:48 AM
All I know is that I'm having a great time with this release.  Never did I think we'd be running on a G5.  :-)
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: jdryyz on June 06, 2013, 04:10:31 AM
Is there going to be an update of the Ultimate.iso for MOS 3.2? Seems my existing iso is saying I do not have MOS installed.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: pVC on June 06, 2013, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: jdryyz;736989
Is there going to be an update of the Ultimate.iso for MOS 3.2? Seems my existing iso is saying I do not have MOS installed.


Ultimate has been renamed to Chrysalis. There is 3.2 version of it: http://www.morphzone.org/modules/news/article_storyid_2050.html
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on June 06, 2013, 01:42:30 PM
I think they just updated it to 3.2.1:

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/news/article_storyid_2050.html
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: jdryyz on June 06, 2013, 01:51:57 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: jdryyz on June 08, 2013, 02:08:34 AM
Hmmm....for a while there things were good after applying the 3.2 update. Then I received that old error message regarding my network connection again today. Anyone know how to get rid of it?

The error message appears in a window:

"startup message
Need version 0 of bsdsocket.library"

I cannot use any network applications after this appears.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on February 12, 2016, 01:00:57 AM
Quote from: hbarcellos;736812
If I were them, I would stop supporting new hardware immediately.
How many different Amiga models we had back then?
I would focus on making the OS run 100% perfect, supporting all hardware features of few great machines like: Mini G4 1.42 (A1200?), PowerMac G5 model XXX (A4000?) and PowerBook 1.67 (A1200m?): Wireless, Bluetooth and etc...

If you compare the most expensive Powerbook 1.67 17 Hires from eBay with the x1000, for example, that decision makes even more sense...

so, IMHO, adding support for new hardware is a waste of precious time from a small group.


Glad to see that, even 3 years later, they're probably following my advice:
"
When such a time does come, expect us to support one desktop motherboard (with one family of CPUs and GPUs) and one laptop. We'll of course make sure it's hardware that's actually available one way or another.
"

A wise decision! Software is SO MUCH better when you know exactly what to expect! Amiga is not PC! Just take ONE MOBO, ONE PROCESSOR, ONE GPU (popular ones, of course) and code directly to that specific hardware!! Leave all the layers and virtual machines to the mainstream OSes...
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: gertsy on February 12, 2016, 06:46:23 AM
And on the third year it rose again.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on February 12, 2016, 02:04:26 PM
found my original post @ MorphZone:

"The lack of a clear roadmap shouldn't be a surprise for me. It's a hobbyist project and it's clearly managed in that way. The only thing that's unusual is to charge prices over 100 euros for a hobbyist product...

Trying to think about strategy here, most probably the money does not make a huge difference. I can't imagine more than a couple copies being sold per month (average) and I can suppose they're not splitting that fortune equally among developers. How much are they? So, if money is really not the key point here, why the heck are MorphOS team always trying to support new/different/sometimes exotic hardware?

IMHO, trying to keep the spirit of the amiga, would be to choose a fixed system (remember, when developers know exactly what to expect, there's nothing preventing them to go, as low level as they want..., just like an Amiga)

i.e. Mac Mini 1.5 with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, at least 1gb of ram, etc... Set the exact detailed model
That machine would be considered AMorph 500 or anything like that.

They should invest all human resources and efforts to make the system run perfectly on that machine. With everything supported. Why add an eMAC for example? Who wants those white elephants?

When MOS is running flawlessly, perfectly on AMorph 500. They might start to consider an AMorph 1200 (maybe the Powerbook 1.67 High-Res)...

Let people with old 1.25 minis or Powerbook 1.5 complain. It will be better to get another machine, than to have an incomplete operating system.
"
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: pVC on February 12, 2016, 03:44:14 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;803916
I can't imagine more than a couple copies being sold per month (average)


It's 91 months since MorphOS went commercial and about 3143 registered machines since then.

It makes 34 licenses per month, more than one per day.

And this graph (http://mm.pl/~recedent/wykres2.png) shows that the more there has been supported machines the faster licences have been sold.
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: hbarcellos on February 12, 2016, 04:22:55 PM
Quote from: pVC;803917
It's 91 months since MorphOS went commercial and about 3143 registered machines since then.

It makes 34 licenses per month, more than one per day.

And this graph (http://mm.pl/~recedent/wykres2.png) shows that the more there has been supported machines the faster licences have been sold.


I can almost bet it's not barely close to a linear distribution. Not to mention that the market is extremely limited and probably NOTHING would make them double that figure.

Yet, ~40.000 €/yr of gross revenue does not sound like a lot for a "team" + expenses.

So, I highly doubt money is their primary concern. Or, if it is, if that would be the right strategy...
Title: Re: Public release of MorphOS 3.2
Post by: zylesea on February 12, 2016, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: hbarcellos;803916

When MOS is running flawlessly, perfectly on AMorph 500. They might start to consider an AMorph 1200 (maybe the Powerbook 1.67 High-Res)...

Let people with old 1.25 minis or Powerbook 1.5 complain. It will be better to get another machine, than to have an incomplete operating system.
"


The Mac mini 1.5Ghz (and the 1.42, 1.33 and 1.25GHz versions) is brilliantly supported and everything works. Except Bluetooth - and that is due to license issues (really prohibitive cost). There's really not much more to expect from hardware support side for these models (FW stack is 3rd party though).

But I agree that not too much work should be spend to support every exotic model that probably brings close to no new users. Focus should be to do the necessary ISA switch ASAP.

Btw.: Registration fee got reduced for many systems. For most systems it's 79 EUR. IMHO a rather a fair ammount.