Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: on July 19, 2006, 10:10:33 AM
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Please Mr Griffin et al, practice what you preach for once (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5192634.stm)
Do us all a favour.
"We believe that they also prevented the native British genes getting into the Anglo-Saxon population by restricting intermarriage in a system of apartheid that left the country culturally and genetically Germanised.
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oh god they are blaming germans again in the form of anglo-saxons. :-(
no bigger than germany is, it seems they caused a lot of stuff. :lol:
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jkirk wrote:
oh god they are blaming germans again in the form of anglo-saxons. :-(
no bigger than germany is, it seems they caused a lot of stuff. :lol:
Don't mention the war! ;-)
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Don't mention the war!
Don't mention the war(s) ! :-)
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jkirk wrote:
oh god they are blaming germans again in the form of anglo-saxons. :-(
no bigger than germany is, it seems they caused a lot of stuff. :lol:
Never seem the gold plated sun lounger dug up at Sutton Hoo, then? ;-)
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jkirk wrote:
...
it seems they caused a lot of stuff. :lol:
Yes - we are quite a busy nation, aren't we?
;-)
Without us Germans there would not be the UK as we know it today, there would not be the USA as we know them today (IIRC nearly the half of the inhabitants immigrated from Germany around the time the US was founded), there would have been no landing on the moon in 1969...
and:
there would have been no soccer world championship in Germany this year...
:-D
We have an (ironic) saying here:
If one works, mistakes can occur.
If one works a lot, a lot of mistakes can occur.
If one doesn't work at all, he can't make any mistakes.
If one doesn't make any mistakes, he deserves a gratification...
As we Germans work a lot, we already made a lot of mistakes.
And we made the biggest mistake humans can make:
We allowed that an Austrian mislead the majority of our nation to behave like beasts and start off a war with nearly the whole world, which finally costed about 60 million (!) lives.
This number alone makes me shiver - I must not start to imagine, what *personal fate* each of these numbers had - or I would go mad.
I feel ashamed and somehow guilty for what happened in the name of our nation, although I was born 12 years after the end of WW II.
I was born in Magdeburg, East Germany - and my parents took flight with me from the communists to Cologne, West Germany, when I was just 2 years old.
I had the big luck to grow up in the West, but since I was 5 years old we visited our relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins) as far as possible at least once a year (they had an amnesty in the German Democratic Republic around that time for all those that flew from them - without this amnesty you had the risk as a refugee to get arrested and sentenced when coming back for a visit).
I could not go and visit my Granny after school as my schoolmates could do - if I wanted to visit her, I had to tell her about two maonths before.
Then she had to go to the local police station in Magdeburg and make an application for my entry visum.
About four weeks after that she got the entry permit for me (max. 30 days per year) from their authorities and sent it over to us.
Then I could buy my ticket and get on the train.
At the border the train had to stop for one hour for the controls.
Herefor the border guards with their maschine guns in aiming position entered the train and locked the doors behind them (really nice feeling), while guard dogs ran up and down under the train with more border guards accompanying them on both sides of the train.
They looked everywhere - under the seats, in the luggage, they even opened the wall- and ceiling-coverings to see whats behind them.
And oh yes, I was forced to exchange 25 DM (west currency, the first years they took just 13 DM) per day at an rate of 1:1 to MDN (east German currency), while the official exchange rate was about 1 (DM) : 10 (MDN); even when one was a poor student or unemployed.
This was part of the price *I* had to pay for crimes others committed against humanity between 1933 and 1945...
EDIT:
I would like to add that in my point of view "the price I had to pay" is nothing compared to what the victims of WW II had to suffer.
So the price is O.K. for me.
EDIT 2:
Hmmmmm - yesterday - when I wrote this - I was not aware whate date we have.
But when I sat at home watching the news last night, they said it was the 62. anniversary of Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg's assault on Hitler...
Makes me think that I wrote such words on such a day without being aware of it...
:roll:
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I feel ashamed and somehow guilty for what happened in the name of our nation, although I was born 12 years after the end of WW II.
don't feel bad we all feel like this when our home country does stupid things. believe me germany is not the only one just one of the easier one's to pick on. america is quickly becoming popular in this respect too and this embarrasses be to no end. i try to justify what we are currently doing but i can't at least not completely. so don't let it get to you.
btw: it is a shame you went through what you did. i hope things are better now and not more of the same old stuff.
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@Dandy
And we made the biggest mistake humans can make:
We allowed that an Austrian mislead the majority of our nation to behave like beasts and start off a war with nearly the whole world, which finally costed about 60 million (!) lives.
This number alone makes me shiver - I must not start to imagine, what *personal fate* each of these numbers had - or I would go mad.
To be fair, had the treatise of versaille not been so ludicrously hard on the german economy (which was made worse by the worldwide depression) leading to deeply trying and humiliating times for the people it is questionable wether or not anybody would have taken the nazi party seriously enough for them to become so popular.
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jkirk wrote:
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i try to justify what we are currently doing but i can't at least not completely.
At least you can try to justify it - but if I just think about trying to justify the crap that happened in the name of the German nation, I very quickly have to understand that you can not justify such big crimes against humanity.
They are unexcusable and I as well as evry other German has to live with that burden (although I'm afraid I have to admit that the most (younger) Germans seem not to spend a single second on thinking about this and so are most likely not aware of that burden).
jkirk wrote:
btw: it is a shame you went through what you did. i hope things are better now and not more of the same old stuff.
Yes - thank god - things are better now here!
But it was a hard time - I could tell you stories (I should write a book on this)...
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Karlos wrote:
@Dandy
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To be fair, had the treatise of versaille not been so ludicrously hard on the german economy
...
Of course you are right here, but even the treatise of Versaille cannot be an excuse for what happened - at the best it can explain why it happened...
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@Dandy
I didn't say the treatise caused it to happen directly or excuses it, I am saying that perhaps had things have been less burdensome on the population they'd never have listened to the nutcase and his promises in the first place. He'd just have ended up being the leader of some fringe loony party rather than getting any serious support.
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jkirk:
Well if you mean WW, sorry no "only" (sorry no better term for that) WWII was caused by the germans,
WWI was "started" by Austro-Hungary, as an answer for the murder of Prince Ferdinand through serbian
nationalists, thus resulting in war declaration from Austro-Hungary against Serbia. Germany was alied
in the middle-axis and took part (after Russia entered in to help serbia),
this is where Germany entered the war, but they didn't start it.
However WWI differes in many ways from WWII, for example there never was a "real" guilty nation and
in the end Germany simply had "bad luck" (again sorry no better word for that). But old Europe back in
that time was a "tinderbox" (hope this expression works in english too ;)) with the middle axis on one side
and the triple entente on the other, and war was just "in the air" Ok, I could start an Essay now about relationships
between e.g. the british and german monarchy (Germany's emperor William II was a grandson to the british Queen Victoria)
or about a stupid emperor William II and some very stupid comments he made, about the Colonies and Germanys whish
to be on par with the rest of old europe, however I am a bit lazy to do that(and my english sucks to much too), and there are several historical sources
where you can inform yourself, also how Germany actually was treated at the end of WWI which as an result lead to
the dark Era of Nazi Germany.
Of course this will *never ever* excuse all the cruelty which happend during this time,
and this should *never ever* have happend (and for sure never ever *will* happen in the name of Germany) in the first place
and I thank God (ok, as an atheist i don't believe in such an higher beeing, but you get the idea) that I was born 30 Years
after WWII ended, however I just want to correct the missbelive (which is btw very common in Germany too) that *both* WW
where started by Germany. WWI was definetly more complicated then WWII (and probably the reason why WWI was never tought
as much as WWII in our history classes during school).
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Well if you mean WW, sorry no "only" (sorry no better term for that) WWII was caused by the germans,
i was just joking with nick when i made that statement i know the huns were the main antagonists. i played wings ;-) anyway i was referring more towards the participation side than anything.
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Well if you mean WW, sorry no "only" (sorry no better term for that) WWII was caused by the germans,
Ahhhhh!
Someone tell the historians they can stop discussing it, the single identifiable cause of WW2 HAS now been identified.
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Well if you mean WW, sorry no "only" (sorry no better term for that) WWII was caused by the germans,
WWI was "started" by Austro-Hungary, as an answer for the murder of Prince Ferdinand through serbian
nationalists, thus resulting in war declaration from Austro-Hungary against Serbia. Germany was alied
in the middle-axis and took part (after Russia entered in to help serbia),
this is where Germany entered the war, but they didn't start it.
That geezer getting shot just gave a pretext for war, just like pearl habour or 9/11.
Actually the real cause of world war 1 was the germans nearly completing the berlin to baghdad railway, which would have given them a hugely strategic advantage in the region. Fact is that this would have been unacceptable to the uk and others. If you look beyond the text books its amazing what you can discover!
As for hitler, i suppose the harshness of the treaty of versai{sp} did lead to the radicalisation of the german people, if only the same nations that implemented the treaty would learn from there mistakes.
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Boot_WB:
The Wehrmacht invaded Poland in 1939, this is when WW2 begun so whats wrong with what I said?
But indeed I probably should have better used the word "started" instead of caused.
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Blade wrote:
Boot_WB:
The Wehrmacht invaded Poland in 1939, this is when WW2 begun so whats wrong with what I said?
But indeed I probably should have better used the word "started" instead of caused.
IIRC, it should have kicked off when the Sudatenland was invaded, but I guess the powers that be figured "oh well, we better write that one off and pick Poland. And mean it, this time."