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Author Topic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 136529 times)

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Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« on: December 08, 2019, 03:19:46 PM »
OS4 is a pile of steaming shit (and i have a copy of it),

why, all so often, such exaggerations?   
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 08:10:45 PM »
All the news about OS3.2 are exciting. It's very welcome you are heading towards eliminating as many bugs as possible in the OS! Thanks a lot for the passion and taking the time to develop and also posting the "Explanation Episodes"! :) :)
Are you developers hoping to get to a stage where will OS3.x be considered "completed" one day or will most or almost all the functionality of v3.9 be implemented (without wanting to step on anybody's toes, only those features which you developers deem to be sensible and worth implementing--of course)? And maybe possibly reach close to OS4 functionality (for those classic machines with more powerful expansions and/or vampires)? Well, the answer to this question might as well be something which is discussed internally in the dev-team, and is rather kept hidden 'till the time is right. ;)

Here a couple of questions regarding some features of which I not even know if it's possible to implement at all:

- I was wondering if it is somehow possible to change how the Pointer is rendered on some Screen Modes.
For example when using Multiscan the "Hi-Res" Pointer has right proportions. Using PAL Hi-Res interlace and the setting "Low-Res" pointer in pointer prefs, renders a huge Pointer; the "Hi-Res" setting in the latter preference editor, display a distorted pointer. Kind of ugly. I would love it, if it had the proper proportions instead.

- enhancement for “copy”, add a "pattern" option. So “copy PAT=#?.info ALL sys: TO backup:icons/“ wold be handy to use.
- Scroll wheel inversion, for those using a mouse with a scroll wheel and spoiled by a fruitOS
- For the Workbench, change "Delete" keyboard shortcut from RAmiga-D (yes, it's really "Delete" and sadly not "Duplicate") to RAmiga-Backspace and/or RAmiga-Del. To have a little more consistency with the shortcuts of the rest of the system. What does the Style guide say about it?
- Have the possibility to change the icon type in the WBInfo window. e.g., from "Project" to "Tool". Actually the RAWBInfo is really useful! :)
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 08:40:47 AM »
Are you developers hoping to get to a stage where will OS3.x be considered "completed" one day or will most or almost all the functionality of v3.9 be implemented (without wanting to step on anybody's toes, only those features which you developers deem to be sensible and worth implementing--of course)?
Well, what's "complete" then? It's probably "complete" when everybody lost the motivation to continue working on it. Whether someone will pick up to re-implement the reaction prefs is hard to say. I believe we should continue shipping the gadtools preferences for a while as the intention is not to exclude particular machines. However, that should not preclude us to implement additional alternative programs users may install instead.

And maybe possibly reach close to OS4 functionality (for those classic machines with more powerful expansions and/or vampires)? Well, the answer to this question might as well be something which is discussed internally in the dev-team, and is rather kept hidden 'till the time is right. ;)
Who can say? Actually, I don't think we would be able to re-implement everything from Os 4 as we have much less powerful machines available.
Well then, I suppose it's "completed" when it will not be possible to add functionality without excluding some machines.
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- I was wondering if it is somehow possible to change how the Pointer is rendered on some Screen Modes.
For example when using Multiscan the "Hi-Res" Pointer has right proportions. Using PAL Hi-Res interlace and the setting "Low-Res" pointer in pointer prefs, renders a huge Pointer; the "Hi-Res" setting in the latter preference editor, display a distorted pointer. Kind of ugly. I would love it, if it had the proper proportions instead.
This is pretty much a limitation of the graphics system, both the hardware and the actual implementation of graphics.library. Graphics.library has to be replaced at some point, but this is a major task.
That's a pity as it is one of the most prominent every-day visual things which catches the eye!
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- enhancement for “copy”, add a "pattern" option. So “copy PAT=#?.info ALL sys: TO backup:icons/“ wold be handy to use.
I can keep this as a feature request, though you can probably create a script nowadays that does that with list and lformat. Actually, the shell is not very powerful - it should at least include better means for iteration.
yes, a two stages script is ok, you are right, one to create the subdirectories and one to copy the files itself.
The above example I posted would not work anyway as there is a need for an additional optional keyword (e.g. MULTIPLE) in order to tell "copy" to create the subdirectories as well. Else the files will probably all be copied to the directory given as argument, possibly creating naming conflicts.
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- Scroll wheel inversion, for those using a mouse with a scroll wheel and spoiled by a fruitOS
The native hardware does not have input for scroll wheels, though some USB stacks send the right events. However, it also takes programs to handle these events. It is not simply a matter of the scroller as it is not directly the receiver of the events, but the window the scroller is in is. Thus, it would require to upgrade programs using scrollers to make use of these events.
Oh dear, this is complicated and updates for old software are highly unlikely to happen. Thanks for explaining this. I take back my proposition.
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- For the Workbench, change "Delete" keyboard shortcut from RAmiga-D (yes, it's really "Delete" and sadly not "Duplicate") to RAmiga-Backspace and/or RAmiga-Del. To have a little more consistency with the shortcuts of the rest of the system. What does the Style guide say about it?
My style guide says that we shouldn't change such traditions lightly.
looks like my suggestions are very too much influenced by other OSs. I apologise. However, I still think it is a good idea to have the delete/backspace key do what it is usually associated with.
Not trying to force your decision here at all, but if this change was going to far, many of those ones concerning consistency should be discarded too.
And window dragging beyond the screen corner is weird to Amiga OS too. Or the new options in the early-boot to update some ROM modules from disk. Or kind of eliminating AUX.. I'll stop, it starts to read a rant. ;)
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- Have the possibility to change the icon type in the WBInfo window. e.g., from "Project" to "Tool". Actually the RAWBInfo is really useful! :)
Frankly, the info window should not replace an icon editor. There are specialized programs to modify icons in all possible ways. Arguably, the included icon editor is a very primitive one.
Yes, you are right here too, it was just a matter of being handy, probably only personally to me; because I am the lucky one here, encountering icons with the wrong type associated to them surprisingly often.

I might in this regard have a little bug to report for IconEdit. I can reproduce this on a vanilla 3.1.4.1 and also 3.1.4.1 plus the latest BestWB v1.3. If I try to exchange the images of the AWeb icon included in the official AmigaOS 3.14 IconPack (Masons)--the Keyboard-shortcut is RAmiga+e--it will not do it. This happens with all new official multicoloured icons so far. The images of the 1992 4-col icons do swap.
I managed to swap the images of the new official Mason icons for 3.1.4 with the OS4 IconEditor however. :)
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 04:15:27 PM »

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an *information window*

that can not..
* display the version of a file
* does not show what filesystem is used on a device/volume (but hey, random information of a filesystem - blocksize - always what I look for!)
* the content size of a drawer (but hey, you can edit tooltypes of drawers - awesome!)

One has to admit, these are all very valid points. I do fully agree with Kolla here.
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It is a job for an icon editor. We have one. Again a very basic one.

Then, for the sake of consistency, shouldn't also editing tooltypes, default tool, stack size, priority etc. also be left as a job to the icon editor?

The current icon editor is nothing but a very simple and extremely basic graphical editor, and not really so useful for editing icons as it doesn't grasp the "new" icon format properly (read only?), doesn't support more than the 8 basic pens, pasting brushes from programs like PPaint etc doesn't work as intended etc.

Its _only_ metadata editing capabilities IconEdit can do, is setting the "icon type".

And I also see the logic here.
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Besides, Rawbinfo or swazinfo are not patches. They just implement the info hook of the workbench. If you want features implemented there, bug their authors. It's ok to have third party tools.

RAWBInfo (ReAction-WorkBench-Info) has all features one can wish for, only problem is that it is buggy and unmaintained, and it currently needs 020+, but that could just be a matter of ReAction classes not supporting 68000.
If it's true it's unmaintained, then it's unfortunate.
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 04:22:13 PM »
Some other changes of C: components:

- SetDate gets a new keyword "FROM" that copies the date over from another file.


Will SetDate and Date be able to use the date format set in locale too, or will it--for consistency reason--force everybody using the shell to use a foreign format?
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2019, 04:21:19 PM »
Will SetDate and Date be able to use the date format set in locale too, or will it--for consistency reason--force everybody using the shell to use a foreign format?
Why "will"? Date and Setdate use StrToDate from the dos.library, and this function is patched over by the locale.library since a long time. It accepts input in the current locale since WB 2.1, I would say.

Mmh.. it does not here. Locale is set to Denmark, Workbench shows the date in format YYYY/MM/DD. The shell shows in format DD-MMM-YY.

6. Ram Disk:> date
Lørdag 14-Dec-19 16:56:49
6. Ram Disk:> setdate testfile.txt 2019/06/14
SetDate failed: Invalid DATE of TIME string!

It talkes back half Danish, half English btw, even tho the preferred language is Danish

I changed locale "country" to use Austria, "preferred language to Deutsh": Workbench displays YYYY-MM-DD for a folder with the option "Show by name" format. A new shell still shows DD-MMM-YY.

6. Ram Disk:> date
Samstag 14-Dez-19 17:01:27
6. RAM Disk:> date 2019-12-13
***Bad args
- use DD-MMM-YY or <dayname> or yesterday etc. to set date
        HH:MM:SS OR HH:MM to set time

And here too, it speaks with me in English not in Austrian (granted 3.1 didn't do it either)

Version c:date 37.2, version c:Setdate 37.1. Verified if it's the same version on the Workbench3.1.4 disk.

I tried the above, starting from OS 2.1 up to OS4.1FE Update 1
The latter is the only OS accepting the date format as set in locale.

Can you confirm this or show me how to do it correctly? Thanks! :)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 04:22:36 PM by rxxic »
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 05:28:21 AM »
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[..] because you are stupid enough to allow Hyperion to exploit you. [..] I believe that if a private business wants you to do something to make them money then they should pay you to do it.

And that grants you the right to call him stupid? What do you exactly mean by that anyway, that he is not intelligent or that he does lack common sense?
Personlally, I don't think he lacks any.

If he likes to code and wants to use his skills to improve something why would would we, or you in this case, arrogate to personally attack him?

Even more so, as per your own words this OS is completely unimportant.

I would love to see my suggestions implemented, because, probably like him too, there is something in us (us a general term) that likes perfection. And maybe that is what he is trying to work towards to. To take this old OS to a state where it is--without altering or taking it too far from what it is--as bugfree and perfect as possible.
His ideas might very well be different than mine or yours, that does not make it right to show inapropriate behaviour towards him.
Like others said already, if it is so important to you, learn the skills do what he had to do and try to join the development team.

Or next time when that anger boils up in you, just remember yourself

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The OS isn't a homeless person needing help or any other kind of charity case, it's just old computer stuff. Nobody is stuck in a coma since CBM died, needing new OS version to wake them up. Rather it's the opposite of that, completely unimportant.
 
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Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 05:50:05 AM »

@kolla

thank you for your help in post #507.
I knew how to use the "Date" and "SetDate" commands. You probably know that, but what I was asking in my then previous post was if I was doing something wrong in entering the date as
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Quote from Thomas Richter  Reply #490 on: December 13, 2019, 05:10:09 PM
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Quote from: rxxic on December 13, 2019, 04:22:13 PM

    Will SetDate and Date be able to use the date format set in locale too, or will it--for consistency reason--force everybody using the shell to use a foreign format?

Why "will"? Date and Setdate use StrToDate from the dos.library, and this function is patched over by the locale.library since a long time. It accepts input in the current locale since WB 2.1, I would say.
But turns out, there was some incorrect information in the help text.
IMHO it would be nice if the shell would reflect the date format of the rest of the system but it's also ok if it is not.

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And, as mentioned you can du superduper useful things like
Code: [Select]

Date Gestern
Date Morgens

to jump the system time back and forth.

I have no idea what the usecase is for the above ways of setting system time.
mmh.. maybe if you are coding in a night session, fall into a microsleep just around midnight, while typing and, oh dear when you push the save button it is today already. But as a perfectionist with maybe some OCD you want the date of the file to be "yesterday".. So here it comes.
I could imagine it happened often during the early OS development phases, often enough for the early gods to implement that option! :D
 

Offline rxxic

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2019, 02:23:22 PM »
Oh no! CBH has won...
You might want letting him know that you also stopped 3.2 development, he and a couple of others will then, most likely, enjoy Christmas that much more this year!

I suppose you could top that only by convincing Hyperion to pay you. Big bucks of course, the OS3.2 update should then cost at least 159,99 Gold pieces. Probably--and for some, hopefully--nobody will buy it; oh can I sense their happiness!