Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: FarQuad on June 04, 2003, 02:46:39 PM
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It would seem that Amiga doesn't even own the trademark to "Amiga" any more... According to the USPTO, they haven't owned the trademark since January 3rd, 2003..
Thanks to the pointer on ANN, and direct from the Patents and Trademark Office of the USA at the following URL (Type in Amiga):
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=7feq3f.1.1
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Word Mark AMIGA
Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer software used to facilitate development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices; operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 76096557
Filing Date July 11, 2000
Filed ITU FILED AS ITU
Published for Opposition April 9, 2002
Owner (APPLICANT) Amiga, Inc. CORPORATION WASHINGTON 34935 SE Douglas Street, Suite 210 Snoqualmie WASHINGTON 98065
Attorney of Record P. Weston Musselman
Prior Registrations 2319266;2369059
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator DEAD
Abandonment Date January 3, 2003
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The word Amiga is simply a generic name referring to any alternative powerPC computer or OS capable of running a set of programs, which I will recursively refer to as Amiga programs.
It does not refer to the products of any specific company for sometime now, as examples I give, MorphOS, AROS, and Amiga OS 4.
So, now that Amiga, Inc. has let this lapse, it cannot legitimately trademarked by anyone in the United States, as it is a generic term.
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Does this mean anyone can pick it up? :-?
-edit-
forget it - MarkTime's post covers my question.
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@MarkTime
Please do not just make things up.
IIRC Amiga Inc had ownership of the trademark passed to them ( or licensed ) from the prime owner of that subsiduary company that owns the LIVE trademark also in that article.
The records for ownership could just be not up to date. Either way Gateway owns ( according to that database ) the company that owns the LIVE trademark.
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yes and no.
I would think anyone can try, and with the patent office having a reputation for being stupid, it's hard to say what they would do...however, ultimately it would be up to a judge to decide if the patent office was correct or acted in error.
I suggest above, no one can *legitimately* pick it up.
However, that doesn't mean someone can't pick it up.
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I didn't make anytihng up DaveP.
If the name Xerox had lapsed into general use
and became the generic term for making a photocopy, than Xerox corporation would lose the word mark on the term 'Xerox'
that is just law.
Gateway, if they want to protect their wordmark Amiga, would have to do so.
I am making nothing up. I used examples.
The term has gone into generic use, and
Gateway has let it lapse.
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@MarkTime
You just made up that it stood for a generic PPC computer.
PS: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=t1kabp.2.10
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I'll bet their auction is for paying P. Weston Musselman...
:-D :-D :-D
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It seems that transfer of trademarks does not get reflected in the database, I guess that must be a matter of contractual rights on a company purchase?
Anyone with a knowledge of company law on here?
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Amiga is a word in the spanish dictionary. Quite how they managed to trademark it in the first place is beyond me.
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computer software used to facilitate
development of software applications that can run
on multiple platforms and other electronic devices;
operating system software for personal computers
and other electronic devices
IMHO It seems to refer to two things, the first one
being AmigaDE SDK or AmigaDE API and the
second one to AmigaDE itself.
if some kind, entitled, person can answer the next
question please feel free to do it:
Does the above text mean that trademark "Amiga"
for those two particular products has expired?
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*edit*
I'm leaving this conversation...smiles
I think I could some salient points, but I don't want
to discuss it....sorry for the change of heart.
-previous comments removed-
the reason is, as I look into it further its a big quagmire...many groups have chosen to attempt
to protect the word 'amiga' as a trademark in
relationship to computers, but they suggest
amiga, inc. owns it, not gateway.
I don't care who owns it, and I know we will
continue to use the word indefinately, and we
all know what it means without confusion.
So, I don't want to be part of a flame fest for no
reason this morning.
see ya's.
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umm just to add.
Amiga means Friend in spanish :-)
:ak47:
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by mdma on 2003/6/4 15:15:25
Amiga is a word in the spanish dictionary. Quite how they managed to trademark it in the first place is beyond me.
Easy as you can use almost any name you like. from the dictionary when you tie it to a product & make it a brand name.
Made up names are alot harder be used by anyone even in differents fields with out permition from the name holder in most cases. it depends on the strength of the brand.
There is even a Hotel called AMIGA as long as what your making is in a different field to what the other name holders are doing you can use & register the name.
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FYI...
:-D (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=352&forum=3) (click on the smiley, silly!)
See post #4... :-o
R&B :-)
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Hello
I search using
Tess (http://tess2.uspto.gov)
On living Trademark with the owner "Amiga":
Serial Number
Reg. Number
Word Mark
75642361
2319266
AMIGA
75343350
2369059
POWERED BY AMIGA
74031353
1761068
WORKBENCH
73571532
1401045
AMIGA
There are several Dead Trademarks with owner "Amiga".
IIRC the owner of Intent patent is Tao Group (UK), (registered in Swiss), not Amiga Inc. Perhaps AmigaDE is OEM products / Trademark from Amiga Inc.
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...registered Workbench too!
Who knows!
R&B 8-)
P.S. Maybe, we will donate the Amiga name to Wayne if we get lucky! :-D
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Now it is hard even for me to believe. :-)
To be honest I have little understanding of the information's sources, impact, meaning and results. But I'll wait and see.
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BBRV,
You have no idea how happy that would make me... :)
Wayne
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Commodore still own it apparently: there are many "Amigas" there (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=tbsv1b.2.23).
(REGISTRANT) COMMODORE-AMIGA, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 983 UNIVERSITY AVENUE LOS GATOS CALIFORNIA 95030
:-? :-? :-? Not that I know anything about trademarks - I'm probably completely wrong :-D
---edit---
But this may have consequences for Amiga Anywhere :-?
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bbrv wrote:
...registered Workbench too!
The day that happens I'm leaving the Amiga.
Wayne wrote:
You have no idea how happy that would make me... :)
I'll be leaving here aswell, which is a shame because I've got mates here now :-(
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Wayne wrote:
BBRV,
You have no idea how happy that would make me... :)
Wayne
I just can't get over the crazy stuff that happens around here!!
:roflmao:
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If it works then I'll laugh my socks off for sure :-)
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P.S. Maybe, we will donate the Amiga name to Wayne if we get lucky!
You have no idea how happy that would make me... :)
**LICK**
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Perhaps if BBRV managed to get Atari and Amiga then they'd both cancel each other out and he'd be left with nothing? It just isn't right for a company for have both - ex-Atari and ex-Amiga people would probably have a nervous breakdown - don't do it BBRV; you only risk destroying the fabric of space-time :-o
@Vincent
Leaving Amiga.org? Why? OK, things might get out of hand occasionally (this thread certainly hasn't) but you'd be missing out on a lot - Talk-about for a start :-D
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Copyright laws are stupid.
Not the idea, just the implementation. What a jungle for such a simple thing. Stupid.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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I'll be leaving here aswell, which is a shame because I've got mates here now
Why would you go and do that? Answer, no you wouldn't. Just sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy the show:-)
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If BBRV's part of the show, I'm going and not looking back.
Edit by nOMAAM : Personal atack
If he buys the rights to Amiga, then I'm going for good.
I was wondering when this would've got edited ;-)
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bbrv wrote:
...registered Workbench too!
Who knows!
R&B 8-)
P.S. Maybe, we will donate the Amiga name to Wayne if we get lucky! :-D
Bill and Raquel,
Please promise me that if your are successful in registering these trademarks, that you will serve AInc with "Cease & Desist" papers. Pleeeeeeeeeease?
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Vincent wrote:
If he buys the rights to Amiga, then I'm going for good.
He won't, it's just more of the usual BS.
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Blomberg wrote:
He won't, it's just more of the usual BS.
I'm getting used to that from BB.
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Moderation pending :-D.
-edit that took a while ;-)-
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If BBRV's part of the show, I'm going and not looking back.
I don't like BBRV, never have never will, he's an arsehole as far as I'm concerned.
If he buys the rights to Amiga, then I'm going for good.
On his defense you have to know that all this begun as an ANN post accusing Genesi with TradeMark infringement.
Then it seems it backfired... BTW I don't believe that it will have serious impact or consequences, yet it's the joke of the month. :-) We'll see though.
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Joke of the month?
I really hope so.
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Blomberg : He won't, it's just more of the usual BS.
Vincent : I'm getting used to that from BB.
No, actually BS is -
"Gary Hare? We don't know a Gary Hare. Oh, you mean GARRY Hare ... hmmm, he was just here a few minutes ago..."
- or -
"Someone hacked our phones"
"Everyone who claims the Amiga Inc offices are vacated is a vile FUDder"
"The check is in the mail, Bolton"
"We finally moved. You were wrong about it when you were saying it. But now it is true"
"It's just a few old crappy chairs and outdated computers we don't use any more"
"On schedule and rocking"
(please feel free to add to list)
...
So get real, you two! You've been swallowing BS and calling it honey. And vice versa.
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Hey BSberg, send me your email and we will send you the confirmation from the USPTO!
:lol:
Amigans are Great! Morons are Morons!
R&B :-)
P.S. ...and anyone else that wants to see it!!! We will alter it slightly to protect the application.
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@greenboy
I thought all that Garry Hare stuff was bs aswell.
I'm not an A.Inc man, I'm sitting on the fence to see what's going to happen, but if BB's a main part of the Amiga's future, then I won't be here.
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Ah! The cavalry!
The show is warming up.
/me gets the popcorn and opens a bottle of Grolsch :-D.
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bbrv wrote:
Hey BSberg, send me your email and we will send you the confirmation from the USPTO!
:lol:
Amigans are Great! Morons are Morons!
R&B :-)
P.S. ...and anyone else that wants to see it!!! We will alter it slightly to protect the application.
No chance, mate, you'll just start sending me vira :lol:
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@Vincient
Silly, if you think about it there are certain A-Inc employees who have said things far worse than BBRV has ever said IMO.
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@red
True. I don't like them either.
It's the personal attacks and general bs that's coming from BB AND A.Inc that's really pissing me off. If A.Inc posted here, then I'd give them what for aswell.
And btw, I would leave here for good. It's not worth staying just for Talk-about.
The name's Vincent btw ;-)
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greenboy wrote:
So get real, you two! You've been swallowing BS and calling it honey. And vice versa.
And what makes you think I believe any of that shyte?
I just happen to think that a certain person with a boing(?)butterfly avatar is even worse in the BS department.
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@Vincent
You gotta do what you gotta do. Personally I think you should make product decisions based on the product, not the man behing the curtain;-) I happen to be typing this on a Pegasos-I which performs far better than my old frankenstein A3000-060 ever could.
I also still mantain a far amount of interest in OS4, even though I have lost all respect for Amiga Inc and it's management. Heck do you have a WintendoXP computer at home? Bill Gates is the biggest ^&&# of all, but I bet you own a Windows box at some time or other;-)
BTW: I'm a sloppy typist sorry for the name error :-o
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It's not hard for your peg to be faster than a classic Amiga.
I've got a Win2k box here that's not mine. And we have NEVER bought anything from M$. I'm not going to buy anything from BBRV either.
I'm supporting Eyetech and Hyperion because they're doing some good work, ok it's all late, but they're dealing with A.Inc.
If it was just A.Inc doing the Amiga, then I would've left a while ago.
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I'm supporting Eyetech and Hyperion because they're doing some good work
Yes. Rebranding a busted board and adding a buncha dollars to the price is real good work. Of course one might have to do that to accomodate the Value Subtracted Reseller (VSR) tax seen alternately as the Seehund Dongle ; }
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@Vincent
You should consider A1/OS4 or Pegasos/MorphOS based on availability, if it's fun, if the product is what you want. If you will remember, C= was also known as "the bigevil" by many developers for their absolutely dirty business tactics. Did we still buy our Amigas then? Yes, of coarse we did.
If you don't want to buy a computer from a company that uses any dirty tactics at all, you will not buy from ANY computer company. Yes, that is an all inclusive statement. It's a good thing you don't feel that way about food; otherwise, you would have to take up farming as a profession.
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Hi Vincent, just forwarded you the email from the USPTO. Hope you have the courage to admit that it sure is real!
:-D
And, why not stick around. We are sure we can re-direct some of that enthusiasm into something useful! ;-)
R&B :-)
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Isn't it a tad silly to not buy a product if you don't like the person who makes/sells it if the product is good ? (Note; don't have a Peg or MOS 1.x so don't know on a personal level if the product is good ;))
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I've never said that I wouldn't buy it. I said in a previous post that I'm on the fence.
I'm just getting fed up of everything that's going on in the Amiga/Genesi world of BS.
Cheers for the mail BBRV, I stand corrected.
I'll have to see A1 and Pegasos working before I decide which way to go. I won't let the fact that I don't like BB stop me from buying a Pegasos, I'm just really fed up of the scene.
I can see myself leaving if no-one grows up (and I know I'm included in that).
Even if I leave, I'll still be using my classic 68k Amiga.
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@Vincent
I heard that. We all have a hard time being "grown up" though when so many of us have our hearts and souls tied up into this platform, no, this community.
I hope you can get to AmiWest. :-) I can't say what showing will be made on Hyperion/Eyetech's behalf, but THIS (http://www.morphzone.org/amiwest) is the current known Genesi/MorphOS/Pegasos offering. As a general rule of thumb, Bill McEwen usually comes to AmiWest... So, I'm sure this AmiWest will be one for the history books. In fact, I know it will be.
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seer wrote:
Isn't it a tad silly to not buy a product if you don't like the person who makes/sells it if the product is good ? (Note; don't have a Peg or MOS 1.x so don't know on a personal level if the product is good ;))
When the userbase is this tiny, it is all down to trust. Yes it is important.
Right now I don't really trust anyone, but may be willing to forgive and forget if they stop ####ing around and spreading bs and/or get the products out.
Half the community admits amiga inc have lied in the past but still prefer them over Genesi (thats gotta hurt.) This isn't going to change. All we can do is see what happens.
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I'll have to see A1 and Pegasos working before I decide which way to go. I won't let the fact that I don't like BB stop me from buying a Pegasos, I'm just really fed up of the scene.
I can see myself leaving if no-one grows up (and I know I'm included in that).
Even if I leave, I'll still be using my classic 68k Amiga.
I know how you feel, seems like people think one can only like 1 computer.. Hell, I used to have an Amiga500 (and a +) a 4000, an Atari ST, a Mac... If I could, I would have a iMac, an AmigaONE and a Pegasos nexct to this WinXP box...
But to be honest, this is how it has always been... Ya either had an Amiga or a Atari ST or a console or a MAc or a PC... If you had 2 or more you were nuts and a traitor..
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"Cheers for the mail BBRV, I stand corrected."
Er.. WTF? Can you specify that a little better?
"I can see myself leaving if no-one grows up..."
Well, Vincent sorry but grown up people are like that. Sucks doesn't it?
I never like the "new " AInc. from the day they were leaving AmigaOS. And I keep thinking that the only reason they allowed others to do it, is because 1- they saw that users were pissed off and leaving 2- Might give them some profit without much work.
To me the only thing can still make me stay in the Amiga scene is the continuation of the Classic AmigaOS (ie. OS4).
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When the userbase is this tiny, it is all down to trust. Yes it is important.
Important ? Maybe... IMHO quality products to attract ex amigans back and to get new users are more important.. People that are still here using Amiga OS on whatever hardware and/or MOS are not going away NOW.. They've come to far to quit now..
The ex users and new users will give sh*t about who Bill Buck, Fleecy, Garry Hare, Bill Gates are and what they have done in the past...
--edit--
Think about it, how many products do you buy and have you "talked" with the CEO of the company that makes that product on a public forum ? Sony ? Philips ? Micro$oft ? You think Yoe Average cares if the CEO of Philips is a nice chap or not when he buys a new TV ?
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>"Someone hacked our phones"
>
> "Everyone who claims the Amiga Inc offices are >vacated is a vile FUDder"
In defense of Amiga—and there is much that is indefensible. Amiga employees quickly admitted that they left their offices and that the fact that they got a lot of prank calls had nothing to do with it. Now they didn’t post this on their site, but to those who asked, they admitted it. It was Amiga fanatics that took the above points of view or half-truths and made excuses, but most of this didn’t come from Amiga Inc.—the apologists made many of the inferences.
I’ve never seen this as a choice between Amiga or MorphOs (although I suppose that Genesi would like us to see it that way). I have an interest in Amiga OS and BSD but I don’t have the time or money to run every OS. My reasons for not buying MorphOs has nothing to do with Amiga 4.0 and everything to do with my assessment of factors relating to the MorphOs product, its future, and my personal impressions. But that’s how a product, in my opinion, should be judged, and I won’t run out and purchase Amiga 4.0 either, unless it similarly satisfies my demands for it.
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All of this uproar is completely unfounded.
Amiga can on the basis of its tradename alone oppose any use of the Amiga trademark by other parties.
Tradenames do not require any prior registration.
Moreover, US trademark law also recognise "common law" trademarks which also do not require registration.
In short, I'm seeing a lot of fuss about nothing .
To the extent that the quoted database is even up to date, the fact that are or are not registered there doesn't prevent you from having a perfectly valid "common law" trademark under US law.
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Ben! You here now too!? Welcome back!
Are you sure about that Ben? Better check those books again! ;-)
But, do not worry, if the trademarks fall into our hands Wayne will probably kindly extend a license to Hyperion with his best wishes. We would be turning everything over to him and this site if things work out. :-o
Now get back to work! We need a "real" Amiga OS for the Pegasos besides 3.X (which we have well over 1000 copies of already still in boxes)! We need that "OS4 Kit" for Pegasos II owners Fleecy has been talking about!!!
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill 8-)
P.S. Hey Vincent! Cheers to you man! Thanks!
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We need that "OS4 Kit" for Pegasos II owners Fleecy has been talking about!!!
Ok, I missed somehing ??? :-)
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Vincent wrote:
@greenboy
I thought all that Garry Hare stuff was bs aswell.
I'm not an A.Inc man, I'm sitting on the fence to see what's going to happen, but if BB's a main part of the Amiga's future, then I won't be here.
What was BS Vincent, that Fleecy and company acted that they didnt know who he was then coming up with oh Garry Hare, hes the guy the VC sent to help us, but Bills the CEO. And of course they still do not answer the question, did Garry Hare a well known and respected senior manager/CEO level guy with a very respectable resume hand out cards saying he was the CEO of Amiga Inc. They know he did, Bill Buck is not the only one who got one, I have a count of either 4 or 5 who have had them. Now either Bill Buck, and a bunch of other high level managers are colluding and randomly picked Garry Hare as the guy handing out the CEO cards miraculously at the same time Garry Hare was in fact at Amiga Inc on behalf of the venture capitalists (we call this the Fleecy theory), or Garry did hand out those cards. Given the recent coverup of the auction of their siezed assets, Rays recent confession he isnt being paid by Amiga Inc, McEwen comments at Bolten trial, etc, do you really want to believe a "Fleecy" theory.
-Tig
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NihilVor wrote:
>"Someone hacked our phones"
>
> "Everyone who claims the Amiga Inc offices are >vacated is a vile FUDder"
In defense of Amiga—and there is much that is indefensible. Amiga employees quickly admitted that they left their offices and that the fact that they got a lot of prank calls had nothing to do with it. Now they didn’t post this on their site, but to those who asked, they admitted it. It was Amiga fanatics that took the above points of view or half-truths and made excuses, but most of this didn’t come from Amiga Inc.—the apologists made many of the inferences.
I'm sorry, they posted in answer to questions about Phones, Offices etc, that they were still there, that they had changed phone numbers etc. If they fessed up in private conversations to a few close friends what was really happening, thats great for you guys, but it does take away that they lied to the Amiga community as a whole. Blaming it on H&P or Genesi FUD is ridiculous when someone is posting the truth. They were locked out of their offices, there stuff is being auctioned off in less then 2 weeks, this isnt rumors by competitors, this the honest truth, unlike Fleecies we are still in the offices comment that went for months after they were locked out.
-Tig
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Yes. Rebranding a busted board and adding a buncha dollars to the price is real good work. Of course one might have to do that to accomodate the Value Subtracted Reseller (VSR) tax seen alternately as the Seehund Dongle ; }
Are we going to have to bring that argument on here as well?
Or should I let this pass as a silly post designed to wind certain persons up?
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Now get back to work! We need a "real" Amiga OS for the Pegasos besides 3.X (which we have well over 1000 copies of already still in boxes)! We need that "OS4 Kit" for Pegasos II owners Fleecy has been talking about!!!
I realize how far apart MorphOS and AmigaOS developers are, but if you'd figure out some way to work together instead of constantly attempting, and consequently succeeding, to discredit each other, I would think, and others may agree, that far more progress would be made in delivering an up-to-date OS. Or does this idea make too much sense?
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Well, Amiga is going like a nomad.
These things sees Jay Miner and I don't know what he will do if he gets angry!!! :-o
These are not news to see for father of Amiga.... :-?
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These are not news to see for father of Amiga.... :-?
Well Jay Miner passed away a long time ago.. I don't believe he would find the AmigaONE or the Pegasos a true succesor to his baby, but then, he was the hardware guru, and we are talking OS succesor now-a-day, real custom hardware is a long dream away.. (AG2 stuff right ;-))
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Hello Vincent,
I'm with you. IMHO bbrv are the biggest BS talkers I ever virtually met.
ciao...
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This war never ends? Why would someone buy the trademark just to screw things up for AmigaINC? Sure they have troubles.. but why make it worse? Biggest reason for their money problems is probably all this crap..... sigh :cry:
I must say this is pretty childish of you guys... specially bbrv... I was actually considering a peg+mos when i managed to dig up some money... but not after this.. Trying the best to kill off the competitiors is not the way to do it.. you wont get customers this way. GROW UP
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Hi ensu, Vincent changed a bit on that position...;-)
When did we meet?
Please remind us...;-)
Hey Tomas, give it a rest sport. We did not kill them. They died of self-inflected wounds.
"bbrv" :-)
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@ensu
The definition of BS is when words are not backed up by action.
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@Tomas
I am a bit surprised at your answer. BBRV has no interest in killing off the Amiga. Competition is a good thing. All he said was that, as a laugh, he'd try to submit an application for the now OFFICIALLY ABANDONED trademark -- and he did.
How could you possibly turn that around on BBRV? Hell, if I had $335 (or 670 considering it's software), I'd have tried to register it myself....
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DaveP : Or should I let this pass as a silly post designed to wind certain persons up?
Hi DaveP,
If the obverse were posted (and it has been many times as well), would it really wind anyone up who isn't already wound up? Though I did enjoy the look I imagined on Seehund's face, I admit, I don't really just want to spend time to take a cheap shot. But what I alluded has been a point of contention for some time, both on financial and technical fronts.
I suppose the marketplace will ultimately decide what hasn't already been decided though. And it won't stop at the boundary of the miggy 'hood. In fact, other companies not concerned with our platform allegiances in particular have already seen this and made tough decisions to cancel sales of what they consider sub-par products.
To extend that, it's also been very obvious that PPC-based products designed some time ago have a long way to go in terms of price and functionality. Genesi has chosen to address this in their fashion though it was a big hit on the timeline to say that Pegasos One was not worth continuing because of Mai, and it is costing a lot to work toward competitive improvement. Even though April has made for a pretty nice board for those who have felt starved of replacement, or those who are searching for development continuance opportunities, it still has cost too much for too little. Meanwhile, time continues to rush by in the x86 sector.
Now I'm severely off-topic, having replied to a post I might have just ignored - and now again ; } But I appreciate your indulgence.
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@Targhan
Unfortunately I can't afford to attend AmiWest. Hell, I can't even afford to attend a UK show :-(
I would've liked to have gone to see what the announcements would be. I guess I'll have to catch up on it in the news.
@Zudo: I'm the same. I don't trust a lot of people here, either people like me or the people trying to make the change. The only people I like and trust that are in a position to do something are Eyetech, Hyperion and a certain bunch of people on here that have certain jobs. (I'm not saying anything so they're kept out of one of my arguments).
@seer
I've never been bothered about the rivalry between computers/consoles. If I want one I'll buy it. All the computers/consoles I've ever had:
3 Spectrum 128k's, 1 48k
2 MegaDrives, 1 SNES
2 PSX (the original PS1's), 1 PS2
1 Gameboy, 1 GameGear
1 A1200T, 1 A500, 1 A600
1 Amstrad PCW
3 PC's
I'm after a GameCube just now aswell, so I've got no problem with having a Pegasos or A1 or both. I just don't like certain people in the situations regarding them.
@Jose
If you read BBRV's posts to BSberg (:lol:) you'll know what I mean. If you don't I suggest you read Wayne's post on here aswell.
@Tigger
I *thought* all the Garry Hare stuff was bs. I still don't know quite what to make of it. I never heard the Fleecy theory and I don't much care. I don't read what he's got to say, and I don't usually read what other people say about it either (especially on here eh Wayne? ;-), jk) I don't even visit the forum that Fleecy does his speeches on. I couldn't even tell you the name of it just now either. I have no opinion of Fleecy at all. I was going out of the Amiga scene when he was becoming more important (or more talkative), so I haven't really had any basis to form an opinion of him.
@ensu
I was only insulting BB, not RV. Personally I don't think I've had any contact with RV. Mind you, I haven't really had much contact with BB either, just enough to form an opinion tho ;-)
@tomas
I can't remember anything saying that BBRV were trying to gain the Amiga name just to screw over Amiga Inc.
@all
I haven't changed my opinion of BB, but after today he's gone up slightly in my opinion, he's been quite courteous and helpfull - he even fulfilled a request I made that I bet he wasn't expecting. Which I must say thanks for (even if I still don't agree with some things).
I'm still not happy with some things that BB has done, but I might change my tune in future, who knows? There might be a better chance that I'll post a *good* joke in future! :-P
That reminds me, where's that Groaner's Reloaded thread?.........
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Wayne wrote:
Hell, if I had $335 (or 670 considering it's software), I'd have tried to register it myself....
Me too, just for the laughs! :-D
I think people are taking this a little too serious! Don't read too much into this, will ya?
But then, you never know ... ;-)
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Wayne wrote:
Hell, if I had $335 (or 670 considering it's software), I'd have tried to register it myself....
I think we would've all tried that :-D
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Hey, could I get one of those boxes? My A1200's been dead due to a set of bad ROM's.
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@bbrv
I must confess, I am rather appalled at your bad-faith "joke" registration of the Amiga trademark, and the glee with which you constantly make fun of Amiga Inc. Here's a fact for you: Amiga Inc is *not* dead, and yes, you may not agree with everything they do, but the right thing to do in this circumstance would be to graciously let Bill McEwen sort this issue out with regards to their *own* trademark.
@Wayne
You justify this with the statement that the mark is "officially abandoned" like that justifies it. Have you thought that something like this can be an easy oversight for a company? You are blinded by your hatred of Amiga Inc and your desire to see them fail. Why can't you just let this kind of stuff rest?
@everyone
Well, this is aimed at those mostly who take glee in wanting to see Amiga Inc brought down - there are a lot of people (like myself, for instance) who have invested a *lot* in terms of time, effort (and for some, money) in developing for the Amiga DE, and your attacks on Amiga Inc are therefore also attacks on us. Please, just get a life and let this be. If you're not interested in the Amiga DE, that's fine, go buy a Pegasos/Morphos machine. Why you have to be so personal about all this is totally beyond me.
Regards,
Gabriel
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You are blinded by your hatred of Amiga Inc and your desire to see them fail.
BZZT wrong answer. I could as easily say you are blinded by your hero worship of Bill McEwen. That would be an untrue statement now wouldn't it?
The Amiga market has been unhealthy for too long, people exposed to it see reality a little off center. Trust me, I was there too.
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Gabriel...While I dont take direct 'glee' in watching Amiga.inc fail I do think that if they do it can only mean good things for the communuty... I pity you guys for following them... my best wishes to you... to them... I have no pity... I dont judge them... I just dont like them and what they've done to amiga... AmigaDE in my opinon was a shallow attempt to milk the name it has about as much to do with amiga as honey has to do with vinegar, the ROM is another milking attempt, the constant BS surrounding them e.g garry hare,offices,phone lines,auction, now this....its just more and more and more nonsense... I dont trust them at all... and I dont think very many people who look at this objectively can trust them either...
I'm not stating anything but my opinon...for what its worth I think you should look at this objectively... .
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BZZT wrong answer
Is it? Wayne clearly by his repeated statements against Amiga Inc shows he hates Amiga Inc. He is blinded, because he thinks it would be a *good* thing to obtain the trademark for himself, or see bbrv obtain it. I didn't say he had a blind hatred of Amiga - he has his reasons and has made his decision. His follow-on actions here are what I question.
I could as easily say you are blinded by your hero worship of Bill McEwen. That would be an untrue statement now wouldn't it?
Well, what does the evidence of my (few) postings say?
The Amiga market has been unhealthy for too long, people exposed to it see reality a little off center. Trust me, I was there too.
You are assuming I am in the same place now as you once were. You don't know me, so you have no idea if I am seeing reality "off center" or not.
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...While I dont take direct 'glee' in watching Amiga.inc fail I do think that if they do it can only mean good things for the communuty...
You know, that has *never* made any sense to me. Why is the "community" so negatively influenced by Amiga Inc that the company failing would be a "good thing for the community". I mean, really. Aren't you in control of your own destiny? If you choose to support a different platform, do so. Find others who support that platform, and move your "community" there and just forget about Amiga Inc, if you don't wish to be associated with Amiga Inc.
I pity you guys for following them...
Oh, gee, thanks for your generosity here.
I just dont like them and what they've done to amiga...
And that's a fair enough opinion for you to have. Doesn't justify belittling those who do not agree with your opinion, however, and (I know this may not apply to you directly) it does not justify this "take Amiga Inc down!" attitude evident by so many on this forum.
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Hmmm, I just remembered something.
"registered workbench aswell?" (or something like that)
I hope that doesn't mean you'll use the Workbench name for MOS! :-x
AOS is WB and WB is AOS.
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You know, it seems people tend to jump to conclusions very quickly here (I prolly do too). In the sense that when you're saying negative stuff about one 'side' you must be a cheerleader for the other 'side'. And vice versa....
Just keep in the back of (some of your thick skulled) minds that there also is a middleground...where people stand who think that both sides suck to a more or lesser degree.
Y'all just suck! :whack:
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I can't remember anything saying that BBRV were trying to gain the Amiga name just to screw over Amiga Inc.
What else should he do with it? Buy it then give it back to AmigaINC for free? i really doubt so...
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Tomas wrote:
What else should he do with it? Buy it then give it back to AmigaINC for free? i really doubt so...
I don't think so either, but if they're a registered company, then there's nothing he can do about A.Inc using the name at all.
@odin
I'm also on the middle ground, but I'm more for A1/AOS than I am for Peg/MOS
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I couldn't care less if Genesi and/or A. Inc gets nuked cos the USA thinks they're producing WMD.
I just want OS4 for my crappy Blizz :-x.
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@Tomas
Relax.
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Tulip has the Commodore name but they don´t use it why????
I don´t think anyone has the right to the Loraine name anymore, why not use that for Peg II?
It wouldn´t be more than fair if Amiga DE Inc lost the name as they don´t care for the amiga at all and if BBRV gave it to Wayne or the AROS people it would show all those name followers what the truth is.
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Tulip is near death AFAIK. (And good riddance).
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Y'all just suck!
Yay!! Finally, some balance! :-D
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Targhan wrote:
@Tomas
Relax.
umm aint allowed to say my opinion on this matter before someone tells me to relax or call me a Troll?
I guess this isnt a discussion board is it?
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@Tomas
That isn't it. It just read like you were about to blow a gasket.
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It is odd how its okay to bash AmigaINC, but if someone say their opinion on how genesis acts, you are a troll... sigh
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Targhan wrote:
@Tomas
That isn't it. It just read like you were about to blow a gasket.
You definitely helped me there :-P
When someone tells me to relax, i get more upset..
But anyway... im gonna give this thread a rest... I still think genesis is acting really childish here.. 2 companies/platforms should be able to exist without bashing eachother, sue eachother and such...
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[color=FF3333]And now[/color]
For something completely different
Number one
[color=FF3333]THE LARCH[/color]
(http://thorn5.bg.biology.uwo.ca/plantCamp/Larch.jpg)
:python:
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:lol: sorry Tomas, didn't mean to make it worse.
It is a very interesting situation. I think, as far as the name game goes, I'll just sit back and relax. I'll take my own advice, and try to get too involved in it.
/me hands Tomas the pot of popcorn
and something to :pint: wash it down with...
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Nice way to kill the thread odin. :-x
Boring git! :-P
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Victory is mine!
:-D
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Core blimey! What happend!
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Substance people, please don't spam the thread with empty posts. I know it was in humor, but still :-P
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Ah some moderator woke up ;-).
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People, please don't spam ,the nice moderators have told you too. Anyways, it's my opinion that not the trademark, but the sourcecode of 3.1 (or later for that matter) is what makes the OS 'Amiga' not that I'm against other OSes which also happen to be very nice.
hmph page 5
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Bodie along with Blomberg is a moron
:-D
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You know, that has *never* made any sense to me. Why is the "community" so negatively influenced by Amiga Inc that the company failing would be a "good thing for the community". I mean, really. Aren't you in control of your own destiny? If you choose to support a different platform, do so. Find others who support that platform, and move your "community" there and just forget about Amiga Inc, if you don't wish to be associated with Amiga Inc.
cheap dodge... they control amiga IP...and this is the amiga(and now clones) community...telling people 'agree with amiga.inc or leave the amiga community' is a pathetic outlook... this community is older then amiga.inc and will be here after they are done... that is fact...
And that's a fair enough opinion for you to have. Doesn't justify belittling those who do not agree with your opinion, however, and (I know this may not apply to you directly) it does not justify this "take Amiga Inc down!" attitude evident by so many on this forum.
well I think it does...some feel jaded... some are angry about things they've had done to them and seen done to others... this isnt a fanclub of people devoted to amiga.inc...if people feel their hurting the community and doing wrong...they are free to let them know about it...
Oh, gee, thanks for your generosity here.
your welcome...
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I realize how far apart MorphOS and AmigaOS developers are, but if you'd figure out some way to work together instead of constantly attempting, and consequently succeeding, to discredit each other,
How do you get the idea that all these developers are in some private war? All that was posted was a fact.. At this moment, Amiga Inc does not legally own the trademark to the name Amiga. That again is a fact, but I understand that Amiga Inc is currently trying to spin it as yet another mysterious "database error on the part of the USPTO."
This makes what? The third such error against Amiga Inc in the last year? First was the lapsed business license, then came the foreclosure that Ray and Fleecy lied about, now the entire US Government is out to ruin their reputation by screwing up a document LEGALLY SUBMITTED by A LAWYER saying that the trademark has BEEN ABANDONED.
It wasn't as though this was a simple mistake or some automatic "oops I forgot to pay the light bill" Trademarks DO NOT expire in three years (since Amiga Inc has been in business).... This was a legal filing by (presumably their) lawyer saying that the trademark has been abandoned by Amiga Inc.
Anything said to the contrary is simply not factual. I'm not -- as suggested by others on other sites -- trying to beat up on Amiga Inc yet again... It might be difficult to hear, and you might not want to hear it, but it is nonetheless the truth in this situation.
Amiga Inc may be begging for money to resolve this issue, and they may re-file shortly, but as of this moment, according to the USPTO, Amiga Inc does not own the trademark in question as of the time of this news article.
(and yes, I did call them to verify -- 800-786-9199. I got transferred around a bunch and finally ended up talking to a clerk named Susan this afternoon)
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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Well, if A.Inc are trying to get this sorted they don't have long to do it.
It takes about 6 months for things to go through, and BB submitted his form on the 4th of January.
It'll be interesting to see who gets it. I still have big doubts about BB though.
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You justify this with the statement that the mark is "officially abandoned" like that justifies it. Have you thought that something like this can be an easy oversight for a company? You are blinded by your hatred of Amiga Inc and your desire to see them fail. Why can't you just let this kind of stuff rest?
-- Facts --
1) I didn't post the original article.
2) RE: "officially abandoned" -- Because it's a FACT, verified by the USPTO this afternoon via telephone call.
--- My Opinions ---
3) I haven't tried at all to harm Amiga Inc in my statements or actions. All I have done is verify the truth which is out there. I cannot verify however that they won't update it tomorrow if McEwen gives them a credit card number (which I doubt very much he has any more of).
4) Amiga Inc is dying. They are doing so by multiple self-inflicted gunshot wounds. All we are doing is watching the proverbial car wreck come to a stop in slow motion. There is absolutely nothing that anyone here outside of a multi-millionaire willing to throw away money can do to stop it.
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You know, that has *never* made any sense to me. Why is the "community" so negatively influenced by Amiga Inc that the company failing would be a "good thing for the community".
No offense, but that is spoken like a true "newbie". Those of us who've been deeply involved for YEARS remember what it was like when we had a true, large, supportive community. That's not a slam against anyone here, but the remaining community is simply NOTHING like it used to be.
As someone who has seen things from a community perspective before the end of Commodore, I can tell you 100% straight up that the sorry state of things today rests totally on the shoulders of Bill McEwen, "Fleecy" Moss, and Amiga Inc.
Hell, even under Gateway's Amiga Inc, the community was supported and appreciated. Amiga Inc does not do, nor have they ever done either.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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Wonder how much it would cost to buy - I mean if folks can pony up money for a Mozilla port project, how much could be ponied up to buy the damn name and let the community decide who uses it.
Wouldn't that open a can o' worms!
:-D
Siggy
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Tomas wrote:
Targhan wrote:
@Tomas
Relax.
umm aint allowed to say my opinion on this matter before someone tells me to relax or call me a Troll?
I guess this isnt a discussion board is it?
"Discussion" is a two-way street. Relax. :-D
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cheap dodge... they control amiga IP...and this is the amiga(and now clones) community...
They control Amiga OS and the Amiga DE. They do not control MorphOS (currently Amiga OS 3.x compatible), they do not control AROS. Unless there is an IP issue that could tie the noose around MorphOS's neck, then there shouldn't be a problem, unless I'm missing something. The community is not "beholden" to Amiga Inc. Only those who wish to follow the "real" (according to some definition of "real") AmigaOS rely on Amiga Inc. There *are* alternatives. Or are things really so insecure that MorphOS needs official validation by Amiga Inc?
telling people 'agree with amiga.inc or leave the amiga community' is a pathetic outlook...
That's *not* what I said. Let me say it again - if Amiga Inc does not go in the direction that the "community" wants it to go, then the "community" is perfectly capable (well, maybe not, seems like there is some sort of weird name-dependency cult going on) of moving in another direction - again, I call as witness the existence of MorphOS and AROS.
well I think it does...some feel jaded... some are angry about things they've had done to them and seen done to others... this isnt a fanclub of people devoted to amiga.inc...if people feel their hurting the community and doing wrong...they are free to let them know about it...
Yeah, some feel jaded and all that. They are genuine feelings that people are allowed to have. But how on earth does that justify belittling others (like myself) who have different experiences/different opinions? I'm not saying noone's been wronged, noone's been hurt, I just don't think that justifies certain actions - there are much more mature ways of dealing with things.
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I haven't tried at all to harm Amiga Inc in my statements or actions. All I have done is verify the truth which is out there.
No, that's not *all* you did. I appreciate your clear separation in this posting regarding fact and your opinion, but you made it quite clear that if bbrv had not gone ahead (as a "joke") to try and register the Amiga trademark, you yourself would have done so, you'd love to get your hands on it, you said. Considering that Amiga Inc is not actually dead (you might say "well, not *yet*"), why would you do so, knowing that it might very well make certain things more difficult for them?
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They control Amiga OS and the Amiga DE. They do not control MorphOS (currently Amiga OS 3.x compatible), they do not control AROS. Unless there is an IP issue that could tie the noose around MorphOS's neck, then there shouldn't be a problem, unless I'm missing something. The community is not "beholden" to Amiga Inc. Only those who wish to follow the "real" (according to some definition of "real") AmigaOS rely on Amiga Inc. There *are* alternatives. Or are things really so insecure that MorphOS needs official validation by Amiga Inc?
yes .... perfectly true...
That's *not* what I said. Let me say it again - if Amiga Inc does not go in the direction that the "community" wants it to go, then the "community" is perfectly capable (well, maybe not, seems like there is some sort of weird name-dependency cult going on) of moving in another direction - again, I call as witness the existence of MorphOS and AROS.
see by saying that your implying 'like it or leave it' ... and thats simply not going to happen... trying to pursuade people to 'shutup and be a nice little zealot' ... or give pity to those zealots who believe somehow that making games for cell phones is 'amiga oriented' ... aside from the name Amiga I dont see how DE has anything to do with this community at all... some propogandists have tried to spin it so it sounds like it does...but DE dosent run on Amigas, cant run Amiga apps...and it isnt developed with anything amiga (the genre not the name) in mind.... I know people say 'OS5' and whatnot... I dont buy it...
Yeah, some feel jaded and all that. They are genuine feelings that people are allowed to have. But how on earth does that justify belittling others (like myself) who have different experiences/different opinions? I'm not saying noone's been wronged, noone's been hurt, I just don't think that justifies certain actions - there are much more mature ways of dealing with things.
if belitting amiga.inc is belitting you then complain to them...they made their bed and if you feel you belong in it...then maybe you can explain all the nonsense going on with them???....
If wayne or anyone else wants to make things more difficult for them... I think its fine... they have certinly made things difficult for some people in this community by their inaction, indifferance, negligence and even what I would consider distortion of the truth...
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by Siggy on 2003/6/4 21:52:19
Wonder how much it would cost to buy
If I were to win the lottery, I'd buy out the controlling interest. I would do the following things in this order:
1) Fire Bill McEwen and Fleecy Moss, if they weren't bought out.
2) Pay the owed back wages.
3) Pay the owed back rent.
4) Pay the judgements levied against Amiga, Inc.
5) Hire a new CEO that has some expierence.
While all that was being accomplished, operations would be suspended. (Not that they aren't right now!)
Or course, that assumes I won a large enough prize! :-P
And before someone says "You hate Amiga, Inc!" Can it! I DO NOT hate Amiga, Inc. What I *DO* hate is to see is the multitude of people that have gotten screwed in one way or another by Amiga, Inc's mis-management team. It's not right and it's not fair. As the CEO of a company, you have the obligation to do right by your shareholders, lenders, employees AND customers.
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No offense, but that is spoken like a true "newbie"
Actually, spoken by someone who has a different opinion than you do. Shock! Horror!
That's not a slam against anyone here, but the remaining community is simply NOTHING like it used to be.
Of course it's not. It's been in decline for a whole *decade*.
As someone who has seen things from a community perspective before the end of Commodore, I can tell you 100% straight up that the sorry state of things today rests totally on the shoulders of Bill McEwen, "Fleecy" Moss, and Amiga Inc.
You gotta be kidding, right? Hey, do you remember how good it was back in Egypt, before that fellow Moses (who does he think he is, anyway?) led us out here in the desert to die? (Note, I am *not* saying that Amiga Inc is like Moses, necessarily leading the people to the "promised land" - this was a comment on the fact that it is so easy to forget the bad things of the past because the immediateness of the "bad" things in the present make them so much bigger in our minds.)
Yeah, Amiga Inc is probably responsible for some of the decline in the last few years, but to blame it all on them is just stupid. There have been all sorts of stupid battles (powerup vs warpup), failed/unkept promises (anyone remember the Phase 5 A/box?), companies changing directions too many times to count (Amiga when owned Gateway), others going bankrupt (Escom), software publishing houses abandoning a still profitable Amiga market for the much more profitable PC clone market, and so on.
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So, Who's going to win the Pepsi Billion?
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:ranting: Guys, calm down. This really doesn't mean anything. Even if Genesi did lay claim to the name, so what? sheesh. I hope he DOES turn it over to Wayne; but honestly, aside from what he says, I think you and I and Wayne and BBRV know there is not a snowballs chance in hell of that happening. He might let Wayne *use* it for free... :-o
It doesn't change a damn thing. BBRV is trying to wind you up, and man, did he succeed.
BTW BBRV, the way you responded to Ben was wholly unnecessary. Being a beancounter and a salesmen in NO FRIGGIN WAY makes you a better man than him. That comment just dropped you -100 points in my book.
(paraphrased)
Hey Ben!! Get back to work and make me an OS!! LOLOMG!!
Sub-par, BBRV... sub-par.
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see by saying that your implying 'like it or leave it'
*sigh* I give up.
aside from the name Amiga I dont see how DE has anything to do with this community at all...
because it was given "birth" by people in the Amiga community. No, it's not Amiga OS (even though it might become an integral part of it down the track), but (and here I'm speaking as one who has a reasonable idea of where AmigaDE is heading, since I am on the "inside", so to speak) it is definitely being influenced in its development by various things that are unique to the Amiga (sorry, can't go into details). But you're right, a lot of people in the Amiga community don't care about the DE, their interests lie elsewhere, and that's ok. And Amiga Inc have recognised that, and have a definite plan for ongoing development of the AmigaOS to satisfy that need. And, if the direction AmigaOS is heading doesn't satisfy, then maybe throwing weight behind something like AROS would be a productive thing to do (which you may very well be doing). Personally, I am happy with the direction Amiga Inc is taking (although I wish there hadn't been so many bumps along the way) and so I focus on that area, but I also would *love* to see AROS succeed, too. I can only spread myself so thin, though... :-(
if belitting amiga.inc is belitting you then complain to them
Your "I pity those..." quote was not directed at Amiga Inc, but at people (like me) who have poured time and effort into developing for the DE. Maybe I misunderstood you, that maybe you didn't mean it in the sense I took it (hence my reference to you "belittling"), but rather you feel compassion for those who will, if Amiga were to go under and the AmigaDE with it, would have wasted so much time and effort in support of the DE? If you were genuinely meaning the latter, then I apologise for jumping to an unwarranted conclusion about your attitude.
they made their bed and if you feel you belong in it...
I have, by my actions/committment, aligned myself with the direction and vision that Amiga Inc has for the DE, yes.
then maybe you can explain all the nonsense going on with them???....
May sound like I am weasling out, but, honestly, that is not my place to comment on such matters. That is for Bill McEwen, Fleecy, et al to make clear what is going on, should they so choose. I know that's not a satisfying answer, but in reality, all it means is that we do what we've gotta do given the circumstances we find ourselves in, whether that means we need to look for/directly support alternatives (like AROS) or wait around and see if things turn around with Amiga and we see a strong future for the "real" AmigaOS.
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Vincent wrote:
If BBRV's part of the show, I'm going and not looking back.
Edit by nOMAAM : Personal atack
If he buys the rights to Amiga, then I'm going for good.
I was wondering when this would've got edited ;-)
Who cares what the product is called... As long as the operating system Hyperion is developing comes out for AmigaOne boards, i dont care if the boards are called TerronCXs or the OS is called HyperOS.. The fact remains OS4 is based on the foundations of commador. That's why and many other peole would be useing it.
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Rodney wrote:
Who cares what the product is called... As long as the operating system Hyperion is developing comes out for AmigaOne boards, i dont care if the boards are called TerronCXs or the OS is called HyperOS.. The fact remains OS4 is based on the foundations of commador. That's why and many other peole would be useing it.
Ok.. Now (after a couple years of bickerin, namecalling etc.. ) both sides have finally reached same conclusion It's not the name that matters... it's the product that get delivered. Good, I see progress.
Now we only have to wait and see those products to make decisions what to use ans what to support.
And for note about my signature... Yes, I can also purchase computer for running OS4 if it's good enough. Pegasos/Morphos just got there first.
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This is interesting, we have people blatantly ignoring the LIVE Amiga registered trademarks on the database.
We have people grinding out their anti-Amiga Inc feelings.
We have people going OTT in an anti-BB fever ( calm down! ).
We also have an interesting case, what happened did AROS people say no, I mean you did offer the name to them first Bill?
@Wayne
Right, you are a pretty incisive guy and I admire you a lot but you ARE strongly influenced by your anger with Amiga Inc. Its laced in practically every post you make these days. You do have a justifiable reason for that but can't you recognise in yourself what you criticise in others? Jeez even though Im #1 arrogant bastard I recognise the bias in myself.
@Tomas
Don't worry, Targhan isn't a moderator here anymore, he resigned and will not moderate threads because he recognised his own bias. I could fish out the thread if you feel like it. So if he tells you to relax you can go tell him to go to hell ;-)
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Yes. Rebranding a busted board and adding a buncha dollars to the price is real good work.
Busted, well if its busted how come mine works just fine and i'm posting from it ?
As your trademarks have already been registered to including pheonix :-P
Have about regestering
Pegasorry and MorphOZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ instead
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People, please don't spam ,the nice moderators have told you too. Anyways, it's my opinion that not the trademark, but the sourcecode of 3.1 (or later for that matter) is what makes the OS 'Amiga' not that I'm against other OSes which also happen to be very nice.
It's Haage & Partner which owns the right for the latest official AmigaOS. Not Amiga Inc, and neither Hyperion. And guess what - it's Hyperion which owns the rights for OS4 [with some additional conditions]. Coincidence? :-)
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Jeez even though Im #1 arrogant bastard I recognise the bias in myself.
In an ideal situation and a calm, prospering community it'd be easy to find some ideal, unbiased ppl. Yet, this community has been twisted, torn with insults, outright lies, etc. I bet there are no unbiased ppl anymore, just a few utterly biased citizens claiming that they are unbiased.
Yet as to amiga.org - I still ready to say that it's the most balanced amiga site. And while accusing Wayne, you have to admire his self restraint he presents at times.
It's not that easy to be unbiased (I'm biased too), yet I think, despite that many claims the contrary, he is aware of that and tries to remain somewhat balanced.
He is biased in a special way though. Under normal conditions one may protect all sides to some reasonable degree, in order to maintain the community. Amiga Inc achieved however, that Wayne just ignores them when trouble happens - he just verifies the facts, and that's all: he won't protect or screen their operation the way he do for anyone else.
Yet, it's up to him, and I have to mention: he does not do actual damage to Amiga Inc, just steps away and let the damage caused by AInc for themselves happen.
Lost of truth - parties harming the community may sooner or later loose the initial good will.
As to which is better for the community? Protecting AInc, or exposing the naked truth? Regarding that matter I trust Wayne's belief.
I have to add, that it's most probably because I personally don't like the current Amiga Inc management that much than I did when they started operating.
Forgive my ranting :-)
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Forgive my ranting :-)
Ok, my turn.
And while accusing Wayne, you have to admire his self restraint he presents at times.
Well I don't. He shows very little restraint. Always jumping in to defend bbrv and fuel the flames. I wish he would just let go and say what he feels. Get it out of his system and stfu. Same goes for Buck.
Crap like this isn't doing anyone any good. If it is a joke, it's not funny.
I've now decided the only reason I am sticking around is to see OS4 in action. If any of this does enough damage to delay that anymore, I'm out of here. Screw this.
-
@Warface
You completely underline rather than undermine my point.
If you find this confusing, read again what I wrote.
Regards
Dave.
-
You people seriously need your heads beating.
MarkTime, you are seriously out of touch. "Amiga" is not a generic term for alternative operating systems. It's a SPECIFIC term for a very SPECIFIC range of computers, operating systems, and associated technologies.
On that note, It doesn't matter that it's a word in the Spanish dictionary. Windows is a word in the English dictionary but Microsoft have a trademark on that. Intuition was too, how do you trademark immediate cognition?
You don't. Trademarks are not people snatching dictionary terms. It's about services and competition.
Trademarks are simply words which associate uniquely with your product in a specific marketplace, the point being that the unique association is protected by law.
This stops some other company coming along and selling stuff under your name, or similar.
For instance if I created a system now called the Genesi GameCube, as a small box that had a wired controller and played games, and started selling it, I'm sure Nintendo would send a band of Yakuza after me to make sure I never did it again.
If I made a Playstation and it was a baby toy with bells and buzzers and Korean-accented voices, Sony might be annoyed too, because you would be stealing their momentum and familiar brand name to advertise your product.
You see, people might be under the misguidance that the Tomy Play-Station, even though it's not a games console, was getting a bit close seeing as it is a child entertainment device.
But if I marketed a set of cat carriers and called them "Amiga Carriers", then Amiga Inc. couldn't sue me for it or even complain. There is no company association in the cat carrier market that Amiga Inc. can defend.
Note that there are plenty of "Lego" clones out on the market, but none of them will ever mention the word Lego. They may be compatible but they won't mention it directly..
So, basically, if Amiga do not hold the trademark, then anyone can use it without fear of legal retribution. In the Lego case, we could put a big sign on it saying "Works with all your old Lego!", which would normally be infringing their trademark (using their established brand to sell your product) but if they didn't own it then they can't protect it.
Who does own the trademark? Well.. we'll see. It would be hilarious if BBRV actually are successful in the application, since he could wipe Amiga Inc. out if he wanted to.
He's not that cruel, though, all you Amigans can breathe a sigh of releif.
I saw he was offering it to Wayne. THAT is something you can all be nervous about :)
-
Who does own the trademark? Well.. we'll see. It would be hilarious if BBRV actually are successful in the application, since he could wipe Amiga Inc. out if he wanted to.
He's not that cruel, though, all you Amigans can breathe a sigh of releif.
What compels him to post so much ####e and cause so many arguments if it isn't out of cruelty and self-interest? I think he would like to wipe Amiga Inc out, surely that is the point?
If amiga inc die and Wayne does end up with the trademark (not that I believe any of this crap) then he should just sell it to those Spanish lesbians and use the money to start a new site like genesi.org or welovebbrv.org (bad joke... all the rage.)
-
DaveP wrote:
@Warface
You completely underline rather than undermine my point.
The difference is that I find it acceptable.
-
@Warface
Not at all. There is no difference. What I find "unnacceptable" is Wayne calling a guy a total newbie ( just because his POV differs and that is just one example from this thread ) and then giving other people hell for wearing bias blinkers.
In fact I don't find it unnacceptable, I find it perfectly normal behaviour. I was just delivering a reminder.
-
This community is definitely in a pathetic state.
Please please please guys stop being so agressive / touchy / involved. Take some distance. Just consider what products you are offered. Stop your holy war.
/me is fed up of everyone
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>sell it to those Spanish lesbians
Spanish lesbians...now 'that' sounds strangely
interesting...;)
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@mahen
Hey man does that include da Rudei? :-)
just sell it to those Spanish lesbians
I want to be a lesbian!
What this community needs is some humour.
Horse walks into a bar, bartender says "Why the long face?"
Whats the difference between an egg and a w*nk?
You can beat an egg!
Man walks into a bar and says"Ouch!"
How many Amigans does it take to change a lightbulb?
Who cares, lets have a slanging match!
Why do women have legs? (sorry ladies)
Have you seen the mess that slugs leave?
Saddam Hussain`s main advisor goes to see Saddam`s lookalikes the night after the first decapitation attack and says to them all
"Now I`ve got some good news and some bad news!"
"The good news is Saddam is still alive!" Theres a general feeling of Hurrah! One lookalike says "And the bad news?"
"He`s lost his legs...."
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@Warface
It's Haage & Partner which owns the right for the latest official AmigaOS.
Actually they own the code. Whether they own the right is another kettle of fish altogether.
In fact, even ownership of the code is debatable if some of the stories from the people who wrote that code are to be believed.
Let's say that H&P are in possession of the code and leave it at that.
-
This thread is getting long and veering OT, it may go locky locky soon :-o
-
OT? Was it ever on topic? Is this OS Development?
Gah, sorry. I'm in a bad mood today. I've already said a few things I'd normally keep to myself... But I feel better for it :-)
-
I saw he was offering it to Wayne. THAT is something you can all be nervous about :)
Nah.. He offered it to AROS first... and I have the proof :-D
-
This thread is getting long and veering OT, it may go locky locky soon
yeah ur good at doing that aren`t ya? :-D
-
redrumloa wrote:
This thread is getting long and veering OT, it may go locky locky soon :-o
FINALLY, the first sensible words in this thread. Well apart from the larch that is :-P.
-
The topic was pretty off in the first place
-
Does the trademark change over relate to the lawsuit mentioned earlier?
NB: Good luck to Genesi, having the Amiga name would be a great boost. I wish them luck.
-
NB: Good luck to Genesi, having the Amiga name would be a great boost. I wish them luck.
I so hope this doesn`t happen.
-
@zudo
Ok, my turn.
Quote:
And while accusing Wayne, you have to admire his self restraint he presents at times.
Well I don't. He shows very little restraint. Always jumping in to defend bbrv and fuel the flames. I wish he would just let go and say what he feels. Get it out of his system and stfu. Same goes for Buck.
Crap like this isn't doing anyone any good. If it is a joke, it's not funny.
I've now decided the only reason I am sticking around is to see OS4 in action. If any of this does enough damage to delay that anymore, I'm out of here. Screw this.
I've noticed this about Wayne aswell. He is very quick to anger at A.Inc's news/fud whatever, but when it coems to BBRV he's got a completely different tune.
We all know that he hates A.Inc and likes BBRV, but why all the bashing? Blomberg said it best:
**LICK**
@Neko
It would be hilarious if BBRV actually are successful in the application, since he could wipe Amiga Inc. out if he wanted to.
Wrong. Amiga Inc is a registered company. They have the rights to the Amiga Inc name. If BBRV get the rights to the Amiga trademark, there's nothing they can do about Amiga Inc. They would *both* be allowed to use the name.
Anyways, as someone pointed out, Amiga is still a registered trademark in Europe. Which means that A.Inc can keep the name here.
@zudo (again ;-))
If amiga inc die and Wayne does end up with the trademark (not that I believe any of this crap) then he should just sell it to those Spanish lesbians and use the money to start a new site like genesi.org or welovebbrv.org (bad joke... all the rage.)
:lol: Unfortunately, I agree with you. :-(
@redrumloia :-P
This thread is getting long and veering OT, it may go locky locky soon :-o
Hmmm, I can't remember it being on topic since page 1! :lol:
@wonea
NB: Good luck to Genesi, having the Amiga name would be a great boost. I wish them luck.
You're having a laugh ain't ya? :-x
-
GHauber a newbie?!
:-D :-D :-D
Wayne, you're really losing it this time!
Here's a clue... http://www.gabrielhauber.com/
:-o
Ian :-)
-
Just where exactly can I find these spanish lesbians :-P .
-
{RANT ON}
What I find "unacceptable" is that some people here ACTIVELY refuse to differentiate the fact that Anti-Amiga Inc does NOT automatically equal pro-Genesi.
Up front and out in the open, it's true. There is not a single, solitary member of Amiga Inc's management that I have met personally that I either like, or would trust to return 50 cents. Unlike most of you -- except those out $150 for the pack and the t-shirt/coupon scandal -- I have EARNED my position wherein Amiga Inc's management is concerned.
Amiga Inc have repeatedly threatened me and this site.
When Amiga Inc hosted Amiga.org on their server, it was repeatedly turned off -- almost on a monthly basis -- for lack of payment (the aforementioned "bulldozer incidents" -- yes, I lied about those when I was an Amiga Inc cheerleader). This in itself was a big factor in our most recent move to our own servers.
Amiga Inc has consistently taken money from this community with promises and zero in return except for a volunteer written newsletter. (The difference is, we at Amiga.org wouldn't charge you $50 per year for a simplistic club newsletter).
Amiga Inc, and it's contractors have repeatedly lied about every single situation they are in, from T-shirts to trademarks, from evictions to auctions.
Amiga Inc have continually ignored the Amiga community which has created EXACTLY this type situation where everyone has gotten exceptionally touchy and pedantic about every little word (this post too will be picked apart by the likes of DaveP and others with their own agenda imposed).
Now, let's look at the "other side".
BBRV is abrasive and very blunt. He can at times be his worst enemy. 99.99% of all problems that some of you have with Genesi are caused by your dislike of BBRV's tactics and mannerisms.
You seem to have forgotten that Bill McEwen is, and has been in the past, the exact same way wherein public statements are concerned. (It's been almost a year since McEwen has even said one single word publicly, so I'll grant that most of you have probably forgotten this fact).
(Those of you who judge Genesi on the personality of Bill Buck are not bloody likely to buy any system in any event.)
Genesi has two working Amiga related products
Genesi has a shipping product which came delayed, but as promised. (Yes, some resellers still have a few in stock, so it is still technically available).
Pegasos 2 is on the way and I personally have ZERO reason to doubt it's creation or arrival based on the fact that the Pegasos I and MorphOS actually exists.
That does not make me a Genesi cheerleader by any stretch of imagination. Aside from my rant on BBRV's bluntness, these are facts. Amiga Inc has zero shipping available products (AmigaOne == Eyetech), Genesi has two, both of which are very, very cool.
Let's get something straight here. The subject of my "agenda". I am not here to sink Amiga Inc, nor am I here to praise Genesi, AROS, Amiga Forever, or any other specific alternative to the Amiga. I am here trying desperately to save what is left of the Amiga community despite what I clearly see as the best efforts of Amiga Inc to destroy it. Unlike some of you here (mostly the AI cheerleaders) I refuse to view the Amiga community in terms of black and white (or in this case Red or Blue) and that pisses some of you off. Can't help you there.
The Amiga community to me has several options available to it, from the AmigaOne/Linux platform, to the Pegasos/MorphOS platform, to emulators, to AROS, to any single thing that YOU feel is an alterative to the Classic Amiga.
I don't really care if a single person on this site likes my interpretation of "Amiga community" or not. I personally don't feel that Amiga Inc BOUGHT this community when they licensed the trademarks, and they damned sure have not done a single thing to earn our respect or support. That's just my opinion.
As I said however, I'm not here to kill Amiga Inc. They're doing that just fine without my help.... All I'm doing is running the projector, displaying all the facts that I can find on the big screen so that the audience can make up their own minds. The truth for some of you is very difficult to swallow.
By the way, the pictures of all that "second hand furniture and partitions -- (Quote `Fleecy` Moss)" are available on the auction site.
I guess we were lying about that too huh?
- Amiga Inc has no known employees (non-paid people are called `Volunteers`)
- Amiga Inc has no known offices. (I personally want the foosball table)
- Amiga Inc has no legal trademarks (just to stay on topic)
- Amiga Inc has only one shipping product (Microsoft Game pack), and whether it's "Amiga related" is extraordinarily debatable. Remember folks, neither the AmigaOne or AmigaOS is an Amiga Inc product.
- Amiga Inc has taken yearly "dues" for what they now claim (after taking the money) was for a newsletter, and they have yet to even deliver the aforepromised t-shirts.
What I can't understand is why everyone is so enamored with a group of amateur manager-type-wannabes who cannot even manage the trademark procedure to their own IP. These are the people you feel are able to deliver a working computer platform?
That makes Amiga Inc what? A user group?
-
@Wayne, about the Amiga Inc hosting Amiga.org business...
Is it not true that you offered to sell the site to Amiga Inc for a large amount of cash, but they declined?
(No flame, just a question! :-))
Ian :-)
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@Ian,
It has never been a secret that I have offered to sell this site to a number of Amiga related companies or to anyone who is willing to meet my price. That offer is no longer available.
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@Amimonkey
From the ruesume:
Operating systems/environments:
Windows XP, NT4, 98, 95, AmigaOS 1.3, 2.0, 3.0, AmigaDE/Amiga Anywhere, TAO Intent JTE,
Red Hat Linux 6.2 & 7.0, Mandrake Linux 8.1, SunOS
Programming languages: (number in brackets indicates length of commercial experience)
J2SE (2 ½ years), J2ME/MIDP (6 months), XML (2 ½ years), SGML (18 months), Omnimark
(18 months),Korne shell script (18 months), RPG/400 (6 months), C, Virtual Processor
assembly, Bash shell script, Modula 2, Pascal, Prolog, Ada, AMOS Basic
Tools:
Jakarta-Ant, Jakarta-Tomcat, JUnit, HttpUnit, Apache, jEdit, MS Office 2000, MSSQL 6.5, 7.0,
Oracle DB 8, The Gimp, CVS, ArgoUML, CodeGuide 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, Open Office
A newbie indeed :lol:
@Wayne
You seem to have forgotten that Bill McEwen is, and has been in the past, the exact same way wherein public statements are concerned.
I don't remember Bill or any A.Inc person personally attacking Amiga customers without provocation, something that BB has done a few times in the past.
(Those of you who judge Genesi on the personality of Bill Buck are not bloody likely to buy any system in any event.)
I must be in the minority, I'm still on the fence. If I see something I like from Genesi, then I will buy it. I didn't like Escom, but I still bought an Amiga from them.
@amimonkey
Is it not true that you offered to sell the site to Amiga Inc for a large amount of cash, but they declined?
Nah, are you sure it wasn't Genesi? :-P (joke!)
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@Wayne
Way to misread what I said. This has NOTHING to do with being pro-genesi or pro-Amiga Inc it has to do with you putting down this guy just because he has a difference of opinion with you WHEN you berate others for doing the same.
But yeah, course, I got an agenda. Right. :-o
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@DaveP
Never claimed to be perfect. Can you? If I've misunderstood, I apologize but we are all very touchy.
-
@Wayne
You have to understand that from my point of view, I do not know the management of Amiga Inc, nor do I know you, so I cannot decide whether you are justified in the constant animosity towards them.
However, you have said the Amiga Inc have put you through hell for* YEARS* - was this before or after you offered to sell them the site?
Ian :-)
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Wayne wrote:
@DaveP
Never claimed to be perfect. Can you? If I've misunderstood, I apologize but we are all very touchy.
Oooo err missuss!!! ;-)
-
- Amiga Inc has no known employees (non-paid people are called `Volunteers`)
Does this mean that Garry Hare is not an employee of A.Inc? :lol:
-
@Wayne
Never claimed to be perfect! Ever!
You KNOW that I have tried to do the right thing by you in the past and hopefully I don't have to go into that.
And I get it wrong and have to apologise. But I am not pro-Amiga Inc but nor am I pro-Genesi. I AM however pro-AOS4 because Ive tried it and like it. No secrets there.
I apologise for calling you out on this in public, I should have done it in p-mail then I could have made myself clearer and then we wouldn't be having this misunderstanding.
It was purely because you do a good job of kicking those that label other people in the nuts when they need it I was surprised to see you getting carried away and doing it here and calling that guy a newbie.
But #### happens, we are all human and I was WRONG to call you out on it in public. I certainly didn't expect to be labelled as a man with a serious agenda as a result.
And Im sorry if I offended you.
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@Ian
Amiga Inc's management, to include Bill McEwen, "Fleecy" Moss and others have lied to me, face to face for years before any offer was made. Indeed, I have never had a single incident of meeting "Fleecy" face to face (circa 1997) -- or by e-mail for that matter -- where he did not blatantly lie to me, only he now defends it as "market speak" which is (to him) "perfectly acceptable" and "part of his job".
I hold no animosity towards Amiga Inc for not buying the site. I'd rather they have used the money for paying their employees.
-
@Wayne
I'd hope some of the money would go towards the releasing of products aswell ;-)
-
@Wayne
Have you thought about handing control of the site to someone a little less involved?
-
@Wayne
Fair enough, I don't know the ins and outs of past events, so I'm not going to comment further (some other people may want to take note of this ;-)).
However, I find it pretty disgusting that people would see Amiga Inc going bankrupt as "A Good Thing" - they're just normal people like everybody else, not the demons they are made out to be IMO.
Ian :-)
-
Anyone for a pint?
Seems it's getting a little hot around here :-D
Regardless, nobody gets a McBill or Buck along the package of the next Amiga successor, so if peeps keep saying that they don't want to buy left or right because of this or that, maybe they should sign up for a Herbalife course. Those guys are very good at animating people regardless of validity of product.
nobody has any gains from splitting the commity .
we are all there's left. move up and move on.
cheers lads :pint: :pint: :pint:
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@DaveP
Certainly no need for you to apologize. I do think however that you completely misunderstood the context of my message to the "newbie".
My point was that anyone who doesn't understand this animosity towards Amiga Inc obviously wasn't around pre-current owners to experience what the true Amiga community was like.
I honestly intended no insult nor degrading of his technical skills or whatever.
In reference to OS4, if you used it and you like it, cool. I have never seen it, and I don't own a single piece of old PPC hardware to run it on. Not interested in buying any either.
I might be interested in running it on an AmigaOne, but as I said before (and was shouted down for), AmigaOS4 is not available on the AmigaOne, nor will it be for several months.
I have on the other hand tried MorphOS on my PegasosPPC motherboard and I do like it. I don't personally have a lot of professional use for it, but it's much faster and much more usable than any other Amiga I've ever owned in the past.
I'm not saying that I like one more than the other. After all, having never SEEN AmigaOS4, how would I know that? I can say that I can put my hands on the physical 600mhz machine running MorphOS, meanwhile OS4 on an AmigaOne is nowhere to be seen.
It's all a perspective issue.
-
@Rudei,
Never going to happen. Anyone "less involved" would have closed this site years ago.
-
I have on the other hand tried MorphOS on my PegasosPPC motherboard and I do like it. I don't personally have a lot of professional use for it, but it's much faster and much more usable than any other Amiga I've ever owned in the past.
Don't use that word [EDIT: "usable"] :-) DaveP will eat you for breakfast ;-)
Just kidding tho :-D
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@wayne
It has never been a secret that I have offered to sell this site to a number of Amiga related companies or to anyone who is willing to meet my price. That offer is no longer available.
Out of curiosity, seeing that its no longer on offer so theres no harm in telling us, what exactly was your asking price to these companies?
Id also like to know why its no longer on offer now? are you dead set against and why?
my usual rant, why is this topic not in talk about? even if it had stayed on topic to the title its still not relevant to OS development (unless you want to try and use a lame excuse such as "hyperion wont be able to use the amiga name for aos4 if ainc dont own the trademark" which would be a real stretch)...
-
why is this topic not in talk about?
Because bad news for amiga inc is good news for amiga.org and it's sponsors. And thus deserves a place on the front screen (which it wouldn't get in the correct forum.)
-
The only important issue now is that a proper company with a solid checkbook, experience, and willpower to succeed steps up and takes over.
All of us want that! right?
;-)
-
I need to stop right here and make a very clear distinction please.
When I look at Amiga Inc managers, I see two very distinctive differences.
1) The Manager
If Amiga Inc's management is ousted tomorrow, that would be none too soon for me. They've done a pitiful job at it and this is where I would see a change in management at AI as a "Good Thing for this community". If real managers -- such as Garry Hare -- were brought in, Amiga Inc might stand a chance, and a new Amiga might have been born. According to Amiga Inc however, this is not the case. There is no new management, and I personally consider that a damned shame.
2) The People involved.
Bill McEwen, "Fleecy" Moss, Gary Peake, Ray Akey and the others are indeed human beings. I have considered each of them (save "Fleecy") good friends at one time or another on a personal basis.
I do not have anything against any of these people outside of their official capacity as Amiga Inc management and staff. I do not wish that any other human being suffer through bankruptcy and hardship for following their dreams.
Bad Karma don'tcha know.
The trouble, and the reason for this post is that keeping the dividing line drawn between the official management and the people is rather difficult at times.
Most of you see my stances as being attacks on the personal people involved where that simply is not true. My stance is strongly against the official management, not the people behind Amiga Inc.
-
What was the topic again, oh yes, trademarks.
Maybe someone will Ask Fleecy (TM)
Which reminds me, where is the BBRV interview?
-
@DaveP
RE: Ask "Fleecy" -- why bother? We all know his answer will be some derivation of the truth and outright lies... Sorry, benefit of doubt no longer applies to "Ask `Fleecy`".
RE: BBRV Interview -- Dunno, let me ask BBRV and Kees what the holdup is?
-
If real managers -- such as Garry Hare -- were brought in, Amiga Inc might stand a chance, and a new Amiga might have been born.
Simple question:
Is Garry Hare part of Amiga Inc's management or not then?
It's not meant to be flame bait, it's just a simple question.
-
DaveP:
And I get it wrong and have to apologise. But I am not pro-Amiga Inc but nor am I pro-Genesi. I AM however pro-AOS4 because Ive tried it and like it. No secrets there.
Cool, when did you get to do that? Is there any way for other, to play with it?
Wane:
Have you tried AROS? just wondering what you think of it. :-)
-
"- Amiga Inc has no legal trademarks (just to stay on topic)"
This apears to be incorrect.
Word Mark POWERED BY AMIGA
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computers, computer peripherals, and computer operating systems. FIRST USE: 19970900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19970900
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 010725 261701
Serial Number 75343350
Filing Date August 19, 1997
Filed ITU FILED AS ITU
Published for Opposition May 4, 1999
Registration Number 2369059
Registration Date July 18, 2000
Owner (REGISTRANT) AMIGA DEVELOPMENT LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 600 NORTH DERBY LANE NORTH SIOUX CITY SOUTH DAKOTA 57049
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record P WESTON MUSSELMAN JR
Description of Mark Stippling in the drawing is a feature of the mark and is not intended to indicate color.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Word Mark AMIGA
Translations The English translation of "Amiga" is friend.
Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: computer magazines. FIRST USE: 19860300. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19860300
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75642361
Filing Date February 17, 1999
Published for Opposition November 23, 1999
Registration Number 2319266
Registration Date February 15, 2000
Owner (REGISTRANT) Amiga Development LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 600 North Derby Lane North Sioux City SOUTH DAKOTA 57049
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record P. Weston Musselman, Jr.
Prior Registrations 1401045
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
It also apears the original trademark is still live:
Word Mark AMIGA
Translations FRIENDLY
Goods and Services IC 009. US 026 038. G & S: COMPUTERS, COMPUTER DISK DRIVES, RAM EXPANSION CARTRIDGES, COMPUTER MONITORS, AND COMPUTER MODEMS. FIRST USE: 19850723. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850806
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73571532
Filing Date December 4, 1985
Published for Opposition April 22, 1986
Registration Number 1401045
Registration Date July 15, 1986
Owner (REGISTRANT) COMMODORE-AMIGA, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 983 UNIVERSITY AVENUE LOS GATOS CALIFORNIA 95030
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record JEFFREY C. KATZ
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
-
Vincent wrote:
If real managers -- such as Garry Hare -- were brought in, Amiga Inc might stand a chance, and a new Amiga might have been born.
Simple question:
Is Garry Hare part of Amiga Inc's management or not then?
According to "Fleecy" and Ray, they've "already answered that question".
It's amazing to me however that no one here knows the answer.
Yes or no please, no "as far as I'm awares" or "as of right nows".
-
Thanks Wayne.
As I've said before I don't ready anything from Fleecy at all.
More bs then, but from who I'm not saying :-P
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MayhemMaybe wrote:
"- Amiga Inc has no legal trademarks (just to stay on topic)"
This appears to be incorrect.
No, it doesn't. None of the trademarks in question are registered to, or by Amiga Inc in Snoqualmie Washington.
Amiga Development LLC was Gateway's Amiga as noted by their address "600 NORTH DERBY LANE NORTH SIOUX CITY SOUTH DAKOTA 57049". They no longer exist as a company.
The live one regarding Commodore-Amiga is the only interesting one of the bunch....
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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Wayne, you seem to have skipped my previous questions...
-
Read what you pasted, Gateway x2, Commodore x1.
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@teo
No, I didn't skip them, I ignored them.. There's a difference.
1) whether you see a "harm" in telling you or not is irrelevant. The issue of the ownership or sale of this site is none of your (or anyone else's) business. The ownership of this site for the record has never changed.
2) it is very much on topic. The topic is the trademark ownership by Amiga Inc. "OS Development" is just the grouping, and this is an important enough subject that it NEEDS to be on the main page. As such, which grouping would you prefer it to be in? It's not an Amiga.org announcement, nor does it seem to fit anywhere else.
-
Because bad news for amiga inc is good news for amiga.org and it's sponsors. And thus deserves a place on the front screen (which it wouldn't get in the correct forum.)
You sir are very much out of line. Remember, Hyperion is also a sponsor here.
This is not in talk about because the idea that Amiga Inc has lost the trademarks *IS VERY IMPORTANT*. I'll be more than happy to remove the block on Talk about so that it appears on the main page if you like, but there is no more adequate grouping for it to be in.
Conversely, the only reason you're so hype on getting it taken off the front page is that you're very interested in covering up the truth.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
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Hi GHauber : }
If Amiga Inc will not or can not meet such obligations as paying Bolton Peck, needs to be sued for this, and STILL cannot pay or will not pay, why are they deserving of community respect or support? It's sad that others have financial outcomes riding on involvement with a company that uses the community as it sees fit, ignores it as it sees fit, does not seem to honor its commitments, of which paying Bolton Peck is only one of many, and I sympathize with their situation. But that does not mean Amiga Inc should be given a community license to abuse their responsibilites elsewhere.
It also blows me away that community supporters who are probably NOT DE developers, nor are they [ex?]-employees hoping to see stock options, would continue to think the matter of not honoring such obligations is no big deal.
But if any such persons were in the same position as Bolton has been in maybe they would realize that it sux bigtime and that it is not an honorable company that would abuse such a responsibility. Sheesh, being willing to overlook any wrongly-treated individual's well-being just because you want Amiga Inc to survive is just crazy! Put yourself in the shoes of those who have been wronged and perhaps you will begin to see that glee is not involved.
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@redrumloa,
The Amiga market has been unhealthy for too long, people exposed to it see reality a little off center.
Amiga Market? What you calling a "Market"?!
It's a CULT damnit. :)
Anyone who gets excited about 10 year old computers should know.
Zoltan
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*yawn*
Once again I'll repeat myself.
Y'all just suck.
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Conversely, the only reason you're so hype on getting it taken off the front page is that you're very interested in covering up the truth.
Uhoh, busted!
/me makes a quick get away.
You'll never catch me. woohoohahahaha!
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@Wayne
Hyperion is not really in this discussion. They only have the right to AmigaOS.
I read it as zudobug meaning Amiga Inc. NOT Hyperion. Amiga Inc has no control over Hyperion, so Hyperion does not belong in this topic.
I'd have to agree with zudo, bad news for Amiga Inc is good news for Genesi, which is the direction A.o is always leaning towards.
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@ghauber,
Don't take too much said on this board seriously, most of us I think just come here for fun now. Every now and then I see some stuff that that just mkes me laugh out loud. Laughing good- then I get back work.
Fact is, outside of this and a few other boards, few people really care what's going on Amiga or Gensi. The real test will be in a year or two.
There are some hard-core Amiga-haters here, and I'm sure there are some financial motives behind Amiga.org's drift to an anti-Amiga slant (check who pays some of the the moderator's salaries), but I'm sure it's only short term.
Zoltan
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@MayhemMaybie
None of those trademarks belong to Amiga, Inc however. Two belong to Amiga LLC, a subsidiary of Gateway, one belongs to Commodore, a subsidiary of Tulip.
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@ghauber,
Don't take too much said on this board seriously, most of us I think just come here for fun now. Every now and then I see some stuff that that just mkes me laugh out loud. Laughing good- then I get back work.
Fact is, outside of this and a few other boards, few people really care what's going on Amiga or Gensi. The real test will be in a year or two.
There are some hard-core Amiga-haters here, and I'm sure there are some financial motives behind Amiga.org's drift to an anti-Amiga slant (check who pays some of the the moderator's salaries), but I'm sure it's only short term.
Zoltan
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odin wrote:
*yawn*
Once again I'll repeat myself.
Y'all just suck.
:lol:
O c'mon, we like you! :-D
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T_Bone confessed:
O c'mon, we like you! :-D
Are you sure? :-P
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I'd have to agree with zudo, bad news for Amiga Inc is good news for Genesi, which is the direction A.o is always leaning towards.
I not only disagree, but I am actually a bit offended by your comments.
Anti-Amiga Inc != pro-ANYTHING.
If this site is leaning towards Genesi, isn't it at all even possible that it's 100% natural simply because GENESI HAS A PRODUCT AVAILABLE whereas Amiga Inc doesn't?
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Is there any chance that this thread can be moved somewhere (ie talk-about). It's hardly relevent to OS development, and doesn't exactly look good on the front page.
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alx wrote:
Is there any chance that this thread can be moved somewhere (ie talk-about). It's hardly relevent to OS development, and doesn't exactly look good on the front page.
I think this tread is in the correct forum, just some of the posters arn't :-D
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Anti-Amiga Inc != pro-ANYTHING.
That's my point.
If this site is leaning towards Genesi, isn't it at all even possible that it's 100% natural simply because GENESI HAS A PRODUCT AVAILABLE whereas Amiga Inc doesn't?
I don't think you'll be pro Amiga Inc even when they have a product out. You'll be pro Hyperion/Eyetech, but I can't see you being pro A.Inc. This is due to your hatred towards certain members of the management at A.Inc, which I can't see change either. (I know you've explained this, so you don't need to say anymore about the management)
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@alx
Read page 9 (I think) Wayne has posted reasons why this thread is still in this section.
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by DaveP on 2003/6/5 15:05:51
@Wayne
Way to misread what I said. This has NOTHING to do with being pro-genesi or pro-Amiga Inc it has to do with you putting down this guy just because he has a difference of opinion with you WHEN you berate others for doing the same.
Agreed
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by zudobug on 2003/6/5 15:52:14
Quote:
why is this topic not in talk about?
Because bad news for amiga inc is good news for amiga.org and it's sponsors. And thus deserves a place on the front screen (which it wouldn't get in the correct forum.)
Agreed
Im glad im not the only one seeing this trend.
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Tomas wrote:
I must say this is pretty childish of you guys... specially bbrv... I was actually considering a peg+mos when i managed to dig up some money... but not after this.. GROW UP
I wasnt going to buy a pegasos or mos regardless of what bbrv said.. I want the real thing.. AOS 4 running on the A1.
zee4 said:
"There are some hard-core Amiga-haters here, and I'm sure there are some financial motives behind Amiga.org's drift to an anti-Amiga slant (check who pays some of the the moderator's salaries), but I'm sure it's only short term. "
I'm sure there are Amiga haters here but I could care less what they think. I dont know of any drift to anti-amiga on A.org..otherwise, I myself would spill the beans and get banned for it. LOL I dont know of any moderator being paid on this site. That is the stupidest thing you've posted so far.
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@Vincent
Oops! With all the comments here, I'd managed to completely miss that :roll:
Just to be pedantic, I'd still say that this is more suited for "Software issues and discussion" than "Amiga OS Development" - but since everyone will get at it from the front page, than it doesn't really matter.
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alx wrote:
@Vincent
Oops! With all the comments here, I'd managed to completely miss that :roll:
I'm not surprised :-D
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I'd have to agree with zudo, bad news for Amiga Inc is good news for Genesi, which is the direction A.o is always leaning towards.
BZZZT wrong.
Don't ASSUME because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U & ME.
This is the thing I was talking about seeing reality a little off center.
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I am here trying desperately to save what is left of the Amiga community
@Wayne,
Good luck, I don't think there's much of a community to save anymore. I think most of us have fond memories of that community from 10-15 years ago, but most of us have moved on.
True, there are people who are trying to bring the "Amiga" back, but you have to relize that limiting the Amiga to the desktop is self-defeating. Amiga for me was as much about the people as the technology. After all, most of us relize that that the technolgy angle was in serious trouble by 1990.
This brings us to the alternatives- I simply find nothing interesting in desktop alternatives that fall short of Linux in many areas. Amiga Forever/Amithlon are fine, but at it's core it's UAE, which you can run on a PC, a PDA or even some phones. It's existance simple illustrates how far behind the Amiga is today.
At some point these "alternatives" are going to have to show what makes them worthy of calling them real alternatives. I've looked at MorphOS's reviews, I've looked at AmigaOS4's specs, and I don't see much in the the current incarnations that would excite an Linux user (maybe a Windows user might be impressed with the boot time).
That's why I got into the AmigaDE stuff, which is real; it's not a replacment desktop OS, that was investigated, and rightly rejected. It's fun OS to program with a very supportive community. In some ways more AmigaOS-like than monkeying around with DirectX. This makes sense- the people who wrote it (both at Tao and Amiga) started off on the Amiga. Now I don't know what qualifies a product as Amiga, but having Amiga people all over it and the Amiga name on it sound like a fair definition. Maybe there's some kind of communistic "Amiga purity" test they skipped, but I'm not aware of one.
Like it or not, DE is also going to provide the funding to keep Amiga Inc. going more so than a few thousand AmigaHeads buying OS4. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I doubt mine and a few hundred others are going to do it.
...yes, I lied about those when I was an Amiga Inc cheerleader...
I appreciate your efforts in keeping Amiga.org going, but since you missled for Amiga (Inc.) before...
Zoltan
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Guess what? Locky locky time. You know why too. :-x
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I don't follow these things as well as you all apparently try to do so I had no idea there was a difference between Amiga Inc and Amiga Development.
I'm just a lowly computer user waiting for AOS4. I had already decided Pegasos I, II, etc/Morphos to be things I would not be purchasing, I just don't see a future in them and already have enough 'orphans' without buying new ones, so no amount of bad attitude from people involved in it really mattered there. If OS4 never comes out, no skin off my back and only $50 out of my pocket which I would just have wasted some other way I'm sure. I've already made it back by not going to more than 5 movies that turned out to be crap anyways, buying some used DVDs instead of new ones and a myriad of other ways.
It would seem that anyone owning the rights to Serial Number 73571532 would be able to contest anyone else using the Amiga name for a computer. My guess would be, that went to Escom, then Gateway with Amiga Inc having a right to use it.
All in all I don't see any value in any of the discussion here. Never have, still don't.
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Hmmm, ok, my last post was deleted, so I'll just post it again. It's not slanderous, or personal attacks, it's the way I see things here.
@redrumloa
Everytime A.Inc is in the same thread as Wayne, I always see Wayne put them down (with good reason).
Everytime I see Wayne and BBRV in the same thread as each other all I see is praise (they do have a product out, but I can't see that being the only reason). Maybe it's got something to do with getting PayPal money from BBRV, I don't know.
But Wayne certainly has it in for Amiga Inc. Anyone who's seen his posts are bound to see the same thing.
Don't ASSUME because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U & ME.
I WASN'T ASSUMING anything! I was simply saying what I saw.
Wayne's done a good job of keeping this site open with all the problems, but there's no reason for him to aggressively attack A.Inc everytime they are mentioned.
I might be going from here sooner than BBRV getting Amiga's name if this is the way it'll continue.
Don't worry, if I go I won't let the door hit my ass on the way out. ;-)
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It was supposedly locked, you got passed, it's locked again.