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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« on: June 30, 2010, 12:48:25 AM »
Quote from: Tension;568054
I bet he could have got AmigaOS converted to x86 for 200000 quid!


Excellent point!
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 05:08:51 AM »
Quote from: koaftder;568082
That works out to like 3 guys @ 80k USD for 1 year. Could three guys port AOS 4 over to x86 in one year?


Well, it's OS4 Devs, who knows since it took six years to port to PPC.  Now if we are talking Dr. Schulz (AROS), I wouldn't think that would be a problem, in his spare time besides his work and family time.  Now if you had thee coders like Dr. Schulz working full time, I think they would have a reasonable chance of creating a next generation OS that would be x86_64 based within a year's time.

It's a massive shame that 200K GBP wasn't spent more wisely.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2010, 09:20:02 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;568100
Better 100% of 100 systems than 0.001% of a billion eh?



Depends on the cost - Zeta (an ill fated BeOS derivative) for instance sold several thousand copies.



Tbh if AROS had had 200K injected into it you would be seeing a renaissance over there. Oh and as for paying developers, Hyperion doesn't exactly have a stellar track record of that itself.


Hyperion might have been able to pay the OS4 Devs if they had sold a decent "Amiga" keyboard and mouse over the past ten years.  Note I didn't say decent Amiga computer, if they just had sold what the market had wanted, Hyperion could have paid for the source code of OS4.

What I'm wondering now is A-EON-Hyperion only planning to build 100+ Dev systems and 250 retail systems for the elite Devs and rich end users, what was the point of the A1X1K project in the first place?  To sell less then 400 systems @ year in this economy?  I can't figure out what the point of this 200K GBP investment is.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 09:26:02 AM »
Quote from: Andre.Siegel;568104
It is not overly far fetched to assume that if somebody invested 200.000 EUR to have a reasonably attractive PowerPC-based OS ported to selected x86 computers in exchange for receiving all software revenues until the investment is paid back, that person or organization might actually break even.


Problem for Hyperion for porting to another arch, unless things have changed from the time of the final court paperwork, they don't own OS4's source code, just binary rights.  Less their contract with the OS4 Devs says they have the right to port to another arch of Hyperion's choosing, how can they do so without paying the OS4 Devs off first?
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 12:49:46 PM »
Quote from: yoodoo;568141
To create a more powerful (PPC) board than the others that run AmigaOS4?

Trevor has stated several times that he is not necessarily expecting a massive return - he would like to break even. That suggests that he is in effect supporting his hobby in the hope it lasts a few more years.


Doesn't make sense to spend that type of money on so few possible sales.   Apple apparently only guaranteed production for three to five years and that was in 08.  Unless someone pays Apple big money for PA6T license, it's EOL in the not too distant future.  How anyone can generate a ROI in such a short time and so few sales without raping the customer is beyond me.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 09:32:00 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;568185
And what does A-Eon get out of your imaginary deal here?

And BTW its $245160 USD at current exchange rates.  The article said 200,000 EURO.

I think we all know A-Eon has about a snowball's chance in hell to "break even" on $245160 USD (and counting).  But whats the point about imagining about them giving the money away on purpose?

And why such a slave to the brand?  Run AROS if you want x86.


So what was their point in investing that type of money for mobo sales in the triple digits with low triple digit sales likely?
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 09:37:55 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;568227
Its a hobby community jorkany.  More choices within a hobby are usually beneficial, it gives people another way to explore their hobby, assuming they can afford it.

Sure, if your goal is for "Amiga" to transition from a group of hobby systems and into a competitive role with other computing platforms as actual working platforms then anything taking people away from AROS on any level is bad news.  Realistically though people in general are entrenched and are not going to unite under AROS.  And so the X1000 is another option for hobbyists to play at their hobby.  How can that be bad?


Is sure not being hyped as a hobby.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 11:16:06 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;568268
I think Trevor has been pretty upfront.  He wants a true desktop machine that can get the brand name AmigaOne on it.  If he breaks even he will be happy, if he does not at least he achieved his dream.


Well, that's a good thing.  What I don't get why he even bothered with the configuration of the A1X1K since it's a white elephant at best because of multiple marketing issues.  If he and his partner were going to spend that type of cash, why not on something that would generate sales of units in at least 4 digits?  Lots of sales benefit everyone in the A-EON/Hyerion/OS4 community.  Crap sales hurt everyone, their best dream machine comes down in flaming wreckage is going to demoralize everyone.  Especially those trying to make money within the OS4 community.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 11:58:55 AM »
Quote from: ffastback;568290
Come now, many of the Moo Bunny regulars will squeal in delight, or at the least be pleasantly amused.  You hang out there often, so you should be very aware of this.


Yes, I do hang out there as well.  But you would only know that if your a regular MooBunny as well.   Some post with their regular handles, some post via anonymous proxies.  

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Isn't it obvious that Trevor had built what his dream of an Amiga is?  Or at least the best approximation he could muster?  Is there any indication that he would have rather had 1000 units sold of something that was not his dream instead of 250 of what is his dream box?  I have not seen any indication of that.  In fact he has mentioned SAM multiple times for the explicit reason that he considers them fulfilling the less expensive box.  Its pretty obvious that he is not interested in making a $300 unit that they could sell much more of that would come in at a price point under SAM.


That's one main problems, in order to have sales of high end machines at very high end prices, there has to be demand for it.  Problem is that there is no demand for it because there is no significant user base willing to pay that much out for a machine that will be under used by the intended OS.   I do wonder how many OS4 Devs are going to be jumping on this, even with a major discount.

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It appears he was partially blinded by a dream.  He'll almost certainly lose money on this.  What's really to get beyond that?  Does Ben have a different intention?  Quite possibly.


You left out the reason of the third partner.

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True, but that is not Trevor's responsibility, nor is it A-EON's.  Its Hyperion's.


Apart of being a partner is to share in the glory as well as the failures.

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If they can't encourage Acube to make the entry level $300 box then they should look elsewhere, thats assuming its even monetarily feasible.  There is no guarantee someone would make back their money on such a box.  


They would have been far better off and offering at a far cheaper price if they had bought new but surplus Apple PPC mobos.  If Apple is willing to sell them the CPUs, Apple might have been willing to license out one of their old Apple mobo designs.

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Lets look at another real world example, should Tesla Motors be looking to make an electric car more like the small hybrids of late or what they are instead making (a big 4 door sedan).  Well to make money better they should be making the smaller cars.  But they don't want or desire to do that.  They want to be the company of "High Performance Electric Vehicles".  Right now A-Eon is looking to be the "high end Amiga workstation company".  Is that silly, a mistake, etc?  Yep most likely.  But there is no need or reason to demonize them for it either.  If Trevor had not been motivated by this dream what really would the difference be for the community.  Lots of folks would be bitching the SAM 460 is too expensive instead, when what they really all should probably be doing is buying an iMica (IMHO).


What your missing is the shear number of drivers/car owners out there.  That is a huge pool to skim a few rich people from so it's doable marketing wise.  Worse yet, it would be like Tesla selling for full value but the motor will only produce half the horse power and only use half the batteries with a promise that in the future, the owner can use all the batteries to fully power the engine.  And all instructions written in Aramaic.  Somehow I think it would be a disaster for Telsa, don't you?
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 12:16:09 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;568270
How do you figure?  There are no illusions to the limitations of AOS 4.x.  There are no illusions about the available applications.  And who is really listening but hobbyists?  And even if a non-hobbyist heard of the machine none would ever spend such money.  The specs and limited OS support for the machine, where the OS does not even support the hardware fully is of no use to a non-hobbyist.


I can agree with you it's not a serious machine for the real world, but what is with all that X hype and all the attention of outside media?  Why international media if they are just for small group of OS4 hobbyist who can afford it?  Answer is they are trying to go beyond the OS4 community as they desperate looking for additional sales.  That's not the actions of a company producing a hobbyist machine, that's a company trying to go beyond the current hobbyist market.  Please don't tell me they are trying to expand their hobbyist market with a price tag that makes their own hobbyist group faint.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Interview with Trevor Dickinson
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 02:42:04 PM »
Quote from: persia;568394
AROS needs to fork at some point into AROS classic and AROS NextGen.  That is unfortunately less likely now the Anubis will no longer be hunting chickens.... A shame really.


AROS TNG was suppost to have been AROS64, but we know how well the idea of AROS64 breaking 3.1API went over.  I think a complete rewrite will have to be done which was the late Anubis-OS project.  Perhaps something new in the fall, we shall see.
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