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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on October 23, 2010, 07:58:22 PM

Title: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 23, 2010, 07:58:22 PM
We at Amiga.org like to keep a positive attitude and a glass half full approach. While we don’t think the Amiga well displace all the Windows machines in the world tomorrow we do feel there is room in the computer industry for Amiga OS, AROS & MorphOS. 10,000-100,000 active users is a nice goal to shoot for, even one million active if we get really lucky. Even if it’s a secondary machine or hobby, fans of these alternative operating systems should not be persecuted for their choice of computer fun.

Constructive criticism is of course welcome and helps developers improve their products. But if you come to Amiga.org solely to spew hate and negativity towards MorphOS, X-1000, AROS, Amiga, Etc this will no longer be tolerated.

Negative comments will be taken in context of the rests of your posts. Idea exchanges and great debates are welcome but Amiga.org will not be a platform for any Amiga hate spreading or fud. If this is your repeated goal you might just find your account no longer working here. If another platform not Amiga, MorphOS or AROS related is your passion then perhaps a forum for that system is a better fit for you? We like to keep the site family friendly and fun. Amiga fans new and old are welcome here and positive communication is recommended. If you only have something bad to say maybe you should keep it to yourself? Jokes are still welcome of course as is healthy debate and intellectual exchanges. This is just a general message and is not aimed at any one member.

Enjoy Amiga.org and keep it happy.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 23, 2010, 08:14:09 PM
And so it begins.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: runequester on October 23, 2010, 08:31:59 PM
To be honest, I've gotten tired enough of this stuff, that with a few exceptions, I pretty much ignore any threads on here that are not explicitly classic hardware / software.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Amiga_Nut on October 23, 2010, 09:00:23 PM
I have no issue with people who want to use OS4, MOS or AROS. I don't believe MOS is Amiga as such, but AROS is a great project and OS4 still has features Windows would be wise to implement. But then again I don't count any of these as actual next gen' Amigas.

I would love someone to make something at least remotely value for money AND fast to run OS4 today. I would love for something mass produced in this category to appear and be an alternative (I don't like Apple...any company who thinks iPhone and iPad that can't access Flash based websites is acceptable is stupid) and we all know Windows is bloatware. Windows is a 3 tonne GT cruiser, what the world needs is a Formula 1 style 600kg 1500bhp/tonne agile machine as an alternative. PS3/360 get by quite happily using a less powerful CPU than the fastest i7 based PC gaming rigs but they don't do anything better at 400% of the cost of PS3. This is the kind of niche you want, intelligent design giving you more bang for less bucks. That's what Amiga always was and that's where her immortal soul will always rest as far as I am concerned. I am sad to say there is no hardware for sale that I would consider buying today.

Call me mad but even a few years ago had the right geek met the right entrepreneur with money to burn met we could have got something really amazing and still PPC compatible. I just wish some people as talented as the VIC-II/SID or Paula/Agnus/Denise designers would just come along and glue together certain bits of certain disposably cheap console and just make something a bit more 'special' out there in price/performance terms than Macs (no games) and OTT PC gaming rigs spending 50% CPU just executing the Win7 kernel for people to go 'wow' over that's all. Call me negative if you want for that but I think that's what all old skool Amiga fans who lived those days want too.

And for the record Amiga 1000 launch was the only time I ever really dropped my jaw over a personal computer's specs and the reality of owning it in my life...you can't get more enthusiastic about classic Amiga than me.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ChaosLord on October 23, 2010, 09:12:24 PM
@Transition

Yeah! :banana:
  Thank God you had the boing balls to say that!  :bowdown:



If I had purchased Amiga.org I would have posted such an announcement the very first day.


Transition = Best Admin Ever!
Transition FTW!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: koaftder on October 23, 2010, 09:38:12 PM
Keep this site the way it was when Wayne was in charge, that's all I ask.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on October 23, 2010, 09:51:11 PM
You forgot the FPGA based Amiga camp.

Hold on... "Windows 7 rules! I can play Crysis and BFBC and NFS and GTA on my 8 core Xeon. I probably have a job in Microsoft as a mail clerk or janitor. Amiga is a joke with only 5 users. Macs are overpriced and turn you into a zombie when you use it!"


So I assume this is mostly aimed at the MorphOS and AROS bashing? What about fair criticism of the X1000s ridiculous price?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 23, 2010, 09:57:17 PM
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;586505
You forgot the FPGA based Amiga camp.
 
Hold on... "Windows 7 rules! I can play Crysis and BFBC and NFS and GTA on my 8 core Xeon. I probably have a job in Microsoft as a mail clerk or janitor. Amiga is a joke with only 5 users. Macs are overpriced and turn you into a zombie when you use it!"
 
 
So I assume this is mostly aimed at the MorphOS and AROS bashing? What about fair criticism of the X1000s ridiculous price?

Off with your head!
 
:)
 
Just kidding, as already stated, fair criticism is allowed and can be a learning experience for developers. Amiga.org is very tolerate and this warning is to prevent someone from getting way out of line and upsetting many members. Posts are also taken in context to what the poster has contributed to Amiga.org in the past. Everyone has a bad day now and then.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: crawff on October 23, 2010, 09:58:44 PM
I'm glad this has been brought up now, it is a shame how bad Amiga World has got over the last few months and we can't allow Amiga Org to follow the same path.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kolla on October 23, 2010, 10:00:11 PM
For my own account, turn amiga.org into amigaworld.net and I'm outta here.

In my view, amiga.org is one of the _very few_ international amiga sites where one is actually allowed to express ones views without constantly having the troll-screaming crybabies and insane moderation ruining everything - remove that I don't see the point in this site.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: crawff on October 23, 2010, 10:05:57 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kolla on October 23, 2010, 10:07:57 PM
Quote from: crawff;586507
I'm glad this has been brought up now, it is a shame how bad Amiga World has got over the last few months and we can't allow Amiga Org to follow the same path.


We clearly have completely different views on things - I see thread as a threat to do exactly that, turn amiga.org into what amigaworld.net is (and has been for quite a few years already).

The crap on amiga.org started when a bunch of amigaworld.net "activists" came over here to repeat their nonsense, people like DAX, takemetograndma etc. The liberating thing with amiga.org is that here one has so far been allowed to call bullshit on these people, and let them know.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 23, 2010, 10:08:42 PM
Quote from: kolla;586509
For my own account, turn amiga.org into amigaworld.net and I'm outta here.
 
In my view, amiga.org is one of the _very few_ international amiga sites where one is actually allowed to express ones views without constantly having the troll-screaming crybabies and insane moderation ruining everything - remove that I don't see the point in this site.

No worries, that is not going to happen.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kolla on October 23, 2010, 10:11:20 PM
Thanks, I was starting to worry a little :)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 23, 2010, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: kolla;586509
For my own account, turn amiga.org into amigaworld.net and I'm outta here.

In my view, amiga.org is one of the _very few_ international amiga sites where one is actually allowed to express ones views without constantly having the troll-screaming crybabies and insane moderation ruining everything - remove that I don't see the point in this site.


Agreed 100%

Some of us have very long memories about where that particular path led AW too.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 23, 2010, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: kolla;586514
The liberating thing with amiga.org is that here one has so far been allowed to call bullshit on these people, and let them know.


Not just liberating, damned funny to watch and participate in :D
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: crawff on October 23, 2010, 10:19:23 PM
I think Amiga Org is in safe hands. This site has by far the the best community.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: koaftder on October 23, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: kolla;586509
For my own account, turn amiga.org into amigaworld.net and I'm outta here.

In my view, amiga.org is one of the _very few_ international amiga sites where one is actually allowed to express ones views without constantly having the troll-screaming crybabies and insane moderation ruining everything - remove that I don't see the point in this site.


Absolutely. I agree 100%. Spot on.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: TheGoose on October 23, 2010, 10:35:08 PM
So let's test our troll loving abilities and freedom of expression with my video reponse to the sysop remarks about things like "spew hate and negativity towards MorphOS, X-1000, AROS, Amiga, Etc this will no longer be tolerated.
": :hammer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUxhH1tD9E&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 23, 2010, 10:42:28 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;586522
So let's test our troll loving abilities and freedom of expression with my video reponse to the sysop remarks about things like "spew hate and negativity towards MorphOS, X-1000, AROS, Amiga, Etc this will no longer be tolerated.
": :hammer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfUxhH1tD9E&NR=1&feature=fvwp


Ahh liberty cap, how I missed you ;)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 23, 2010, 11:07:06 PM
Personally, I figure most of us have been around long enough to know the difference between trolling and heated but otherwise reasonable debate.

Or at least I'd like to think so.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: cecilia on October 23, 2010, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;586479
I have no issue with people who want to use OS4, MOS or AROS. I don't believe MOS is Amiga as such, but AROS is a great project and OS4 still has features Windows would be wise to implement. But then again I don't count any of these as actual next gen' Amigas.


really?

here's my easy definition of an Amiga:

Can I use ImageFX on it???

(you can substitute your favorite software. not games, actual productive software).

MOS can run IFX. AROS can't yet as far as I know, but there's things I like about AROS and it seems to be improving all the time. It still gives me that 'Amiga Feeling'. So, I don't have a very strict rule here.

Frankly, I don't see what the fuss is all about. The OS's themselves are very Amiga-like.


I've become a very big fan of Linux - especially Ubuntu - because it lets me be very productive. But Amiga will always have a special place in my heart. I would not be here today without it. :knuddel:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: cecilia on October 23, 2010, 11:24:17 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586531
Personally, I figure most of us have been around long enough to know the difference between trolling and heated but otherwise reasonable debate.

Or at least I'd like to think so.
it's the socks.

somehow they clear the head

LOL
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: smerf on October 23, 2010, 11:26:07 PM
Hi,

@Transition,
=================================================================
Negative comments will be taken in context of the rests of your posts. Idea exchanges and great debates are welcome but Amiga.org will not be a platform for any Amiga hate spreading or fud. If this is your repeated goal you might just find your account no longer working here
=================================================================

You make um big joke, negitive comments on Amiga.Org, who would do such a thing, Amiga hate spreading on an Amiga site, must be one of those darn MAC users.
Account no longer working here. This is pure torture.

=================================================================
 
Constructive criticism is of course welcome and helps developers improve their products. But if you come to Amiga.org solely to spew hate and negativity towards MorphOS, X-1000, AROS, Amiga, Etc this will no longer be tolerated.

=================================================================
Constructive criticism, on Amiga org, where, and when did this happen?

ok I had my fun

smerf
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: smerf on October 23, 2010, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586531
Personally, I figure most of us have been around long enough to know the difference between trolling and heated but otherwise reasonable debate.

Or at least I'd like to think so.


Hi,

@Karlos,

Karlos you ruined about 80% of my trolls, you sorry sack of MAC software and then you come out with a remark like this. You are no fun at all.

smerf
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: golem on October 23, 2010, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: crawff;586507
I'm glad this has been brought up now, it is a shame how bad Amiga World has got over the last few months and we can't allow Amiga Org to follow the same path.


Yes. As long as everyone has open minds and fanboyism is not allowed to predominate I will keep coming here. Thats why I'm here more often than any other Amiga site. That and the fact that most items regarding Classic systems get posted here (but maybe that goes hand in hand).
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 12:32:37 AM
Quote from: smerf;586544
Hi,

@Karlos,

Karlos you ruined about 80% of my trolls, you sorry sack of MAC software and then you come out with a remark like this. You are no fun at all.

smerf


Take it back! I use linux :lol:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 12:39:06 AM
Quote from: Karlos;586531
Personally, I figure most of us have been around long enough to know the difference between trolling and heated but otherwise reasonable debate.

Or at least I'd like to think so.


No, we're obviously not intelligent enough for that and we need a forum moderator to censor what is said here so as to protect us from all the sticks and stones!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: koaftder on October 24, 2010, 12:45:06 AM
Who put Aros in the tag list?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: spihunter on October 24, 2010, 01:05:37 AM
I think Im outraged? I don't know?. This is a very confusing thread?.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Franko on October 24, 2010, 02:12:02 AM
Quote from: spihunter;586559
I think Im outraged? I don't know?. This is a very confusing thread?.


Hear, hear, I think !!!

Im just as confused as to what is allowed and what isn't... :confused:

Would someone care to clarify a wee bit what, who, why, when & if something can't be said... :confused:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 24, 2010, 02:13:37 AM
Common sense is your friend.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 02:38:54 AM
I'll bite.
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;586479
I don't believe MOS is Amiga as such, but AROS is a great project
Is MorphOS a great project, too?
Do you believe AROS is not Amiga as such?
Quote
I would love for something mass produced in this category to appear and be an alternative (I don't like Apple...any company who thinks iPhone and iPad that can't access Flash based websites is acceptable is stupid)
So you consider the Apple stigma to prevail even if the original company no longer gets any profit from the sales?

Quote
I just wish some people as talented as the VIC-II/SID or Paula/Agnus/Denise designers would just come along and glue together certain bits of certain disposably cheap console and just make something a bit more 'special' out there in price/performance terms than Macs (no games) and OTT PC gaming rigs spending 50% CPU just executing the Win7 kernel for people to go 'wow' over that's all. Call me negative if you want for that but I think that's what all old skool Amiga fans who lived those days want too.
Call me a realist but that's just not going to happen. Commodore designers had it easy in comparison to has to be done today. HW designers do remarkable things today, you can't even remotely compare it with VIC-II/SID or Paula/Agnus/Denise stuff.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 02:49:06 AM
Quote from: Transition;586445
Negative comments will be taken in context of the rests of your posts. Idea exchanges and great debates are welcome but Amiga.org will not be a platform for any Amiga hate spreading or fud. If this is your repeated goal you might just find your account no longer working here. If another platform not Amiga, MorphOS or AROS related is your passion then perhaps a forum for that system is a better fit for you? We like to keep the site family friendly and fun. Amiga fans new and old are welcome here and positive communication is recommended. If you only have something bad to say maybe you should keep it to yourself?
I find it disturbing that you find it necessary to post something like this here on amiga.org.

Such posts as this have a chilling effect, regardless of your good intentions.

If the posting guidelines are broken, moderate the comments. Other than that IMHO it is poor judgement to try steer the discussion with posts like this. The posting guidelines should be enough.

I for one am not welcoming our new mind controlling overlords.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 24, 2010, 02:50:28 AM
If it's chilling perhaps I should have waited to post this on October 31st.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kedawa on October 24, 2010, 03:00:29 AM
It may have a spine-tingling effect!

btw, can someone fill me in on what the story is on Amiga World?
This is the only Amiga forum I belong to, so I don't really know what people are talking about when they say we don't want to be like Amiga World.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 03:06:35 AM
Piru is right.  Censorship defeats the purpose of even having a forum. How can anyone here now expect to speak freely or have a different point of view if you're standing there threatening to ban them if you don't agree with what they have to say?  The posting guidelines are pretty clear so I'm a bit disturbed by your post as well.  At best, it seems threatening.  Not the kind of place where I want to share ideas or debate.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: SysAdmin on October 24, 2010, 03:09:17 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;586584
Piru is right.  Censorship defeats the purpose of even having a forum. How can anyone here now expect to speak freely or have a different point of view if you're standing there threatening to ban them if you don't agree with what they have to say?  The posting guidelines are pretty clear so I'm a bit disturbed by your post as well.  At best, it seems threatening.  Not the kind of place where I want to share ideas or debate.


Your reading too much into it. Trolling is different then expressing your ideas. It's only intent is to damage and hurt others.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: desiv on October 24, 2010, 03:12:35 AM
I don't see it.
The mods said that they will moderate trolls.
How is that a bad thing?
(Unless of course you're a troll.  ;-)

I'm glad the mods stated that, and I do feel it was necessary to let people know.

Just my $0.000002.

desiv
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 03:18:54 AM
Quote from: Transition;586585
Your reading too much into it. Trolling is different then expressing your ideas. It's only intent is to damage and hurt others.


Then maybe you should take a stab at defining "trolling" and adding that definition to the posting guidelines?!!!!

I've seen several people on here with points of view that weren't popular and they were accused of trolling, even though they hadn't made ANY personal attacks or said anything vulgar or indecent.  You initial post in this thread actually sounds like you're ready to ban anyone who says anything that you deem to be anti-Amiga, anti-MOS, or anti-AROS.

So what will constitute trolling?  Will advocating an x86 processor over PPC be viewed as trolling?  What about people who prefer AROS over OS4?  Will they be accused of trolling?  What about people who prefer emulation instead of using classic hardware?.........After reading your initial post you have more people than me wondering about it.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: klx300r on October 24, 2010, 03:46:22 AM
@ Transition

thank you!..this has been long overdue

@ those who pretend not to know what a troll is

if a thread is about OS A and you repeatedly come into saying that it's crap etc. and that OS B is better blah blah blah then Transition wrote that note for you..very simple:afro:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 03:52:52 AM
Quote from: klx300r;586594
@ Transition

thank you!..this has been long overdue

@ those who pretend not to know what a troll is

if a thread is about OS A and you repeatedly come into saying that it's crap etc. and that OS B is better blah blah blah then Transition wrote that note for you..very simple:afro:


Oh, so having a different opinion is grounds for being banned?  And Transition has appointed you as his spokesman?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: slayer on October 24, 2010, 03:56:02 AM
LOL

What did you expect guys? Did you really think the Amiga Boards were going to be left to completely degrade without check? Now that a few more people are realising the Amiga does infact have a continuing future they have begun to understand the REASON for Amiga forum boards exisiting

It is to SERVE the Amiga NOT the individual(s)

It ain't going to get better for you, so perhaps you should transplant yourselves now before you make yourselves look extremely silly

Onward and Upwards Custom AmigaHW and AmigaOS4.x

@admins: slow start but still positive
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: MobbyG on October 24, 2010, 03:56:19 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that trolling is kind of like trying to define obscene porn.. It can't be defined as easily as say a noun or verb.. but as Justice Potter Stewart said... "I know it when I see it."
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 04:11:16 AM
Quote from: slayer;586596
Did you really think the Amiga Boards were going to be left to completely degrade without check? Now that a few more people are realising the Amiga does infact have a continuing future they have begun to understand the REASON for Amiga forum boards exisiting

It is to SERVE the Amiga NOT the individual(s)

It ain't going to get better for you, so perhaps you should transplant yourselves now before you make yourselves look extremely silly

Onward and Upwards Custom AmigaHW and AmigaOS4.x
I think you've severely misunderstood something here.

@Transition

You really don't see what kind of can of worms you opened with these comments?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: desiv on October 24, 2010, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;586595
Oh, so having a different opinion is grounds for being banned?
No, Transition didn't say that, just (an interpretation of) klx300r's opinion.  

 
Quote from: ferrellsl;586595
And Transition has appointed you as his spokesman?
No, didn't see that anywhere.

:roflmao:

desiv
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: smerf on October 24, 2010, 04:24:40 AM
Quote from: Franko;586569
Hear, hear, I think !!!

Im just as confused as to what is allowed and what isn't... :confused:

Would someone care to clarify a wee bit what, who, why, when & if something can't be said... :confused:


Hi,

@Franko,

The way I understood it, is that you can't get anyone mad about using Morphos, or AROS or the Amiga, but Linux and Window people are fair game. You can say anything you want to make them mad or troll for them to bite.

I am still confused about MAC people, I don't know if we can make them angry or not since there systems are being used for experimental purposes for both the Amiga and Morphos. I guess Transition is going to have to clear this one up.

smerf
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: klx300r on October 24, 2010, 04:25:31 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;586595
Oh, so having a different opinion is grounds for being banned?  And Transition has appointed you as his spokesman?

it has nothing to do with a different opinion as was already nicely explained in Transition's warning note.

as for being a spokesman, all I can say is that I don't like trolling and I don't care if trolls are coloured red, blue or white and I got a hunch the majority of Amiga enthusiasts on this site feel the same way:rtfm:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 04:28:19 AM
Quote from: smerf;586604
Linux and Window people are fair game. You can say anything you want to make them mad or troll for them to bite.

uh huh
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Cammy on October 24, 2010, 04:28:42 AM
This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion:


Original-Poster: This is a new Amiga related project I am working on. It has feature X and it can also do feature Y.

Positive-person: Great work! I'm glad you have taken the time to start this project which is something that various Amiga users may find a use for and enjoy!

Not-a-troll: Looks okay, can you add feature Z as well?

Another-non-troll: Have you considered compiling it for my Amiga-like OS of choice? I would use it if you do. Keep up the good work!

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.

Troll-Feeder: Where can I download the iPhone version from?



The trolls are pretty consistent, they will continue to post cheeky or cruel remarks at any chance they get. They prefer to start a fight and back out of it while others join in and continue it, or take a stab when they feel there's no chance of retaliation. I have no problem with cowards like this being removed from the forum.

I'm sure the moderators don't regard passionate, opinionated Amiga users who like to debate about their favorite platform as trolls. I think a lot of people are getting upset about something that's not going to affect them in any negative way, and in fact it could be just what we need to get more Amiga-related discussion happening on this site. I know for a fact, from chatting to hundreds of Amiga users around the world on IRC, MSN and through forum private messages, that there are many people who would post a lot more often about Amiga-related projects and ideas if they weren't afraid of having their thread derailed by someone whose only intent is to crush their spirit and stop them from wanting to go any further with their idea.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: smerf on October 24, 2010, 04:29:07 AM
Quote from: crawff;586520
I think Amiga Org is in safe hands. This site has by far the the best community.


Hi,

@crawff,

Don't know which site you have been looking at, are you sure you are talking about amiga.org, or the other Amiga station. The only thing at Amiga.org, is us loonies, but I guess you could call that the best community.

smerf
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: smerf on October 24, 2010, 04:34:38 AM
Hi,

@Cammy,

Wow!!

Will feature X work on the new Amiga X1000, and you also get a feature Y for the same pirce. I will buy it as soon as it hits the market for the Amiga X1000.

smerf
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ChaosLord on October 24, 2010, 04:37:06 AM
Quote from: Cammy;586607
This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion:


Original-Poster: This is a new Amiga related project I am working on. It has feature X and it can also do feature Y.

Positive-person: Great work! I'm glad you have taken the time to start this project which is something that various Amiga users may find a use for and enjoy!

Not-a-troll: Looks okay, can you add feature Z as well?

Another-non-troll: Have you considered compiling it for my Amiga-like OS of choice? I would use it if you do. Keep up the good work!

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.

Troll-Feeder: Where can I download the iPhone version from?



The trolls are pretty consistent, they will continue to post cheeky or cruel remarks at any chance they get. They prefer to start a fight and back out of it while others join in and continue it, or take a stab when they feel there's no chance of retaliation. I have no problem with cowards like this being removed from the forum.

I'm sure the moderators don't regard passionate, opinionated Amiga users who like to debate about their favorite platform as trolls. I think a lot of people are getting upset about something that's not going to affect them in any negative way, and in fact it could be just what we need to get more Amiga-related discussion happening on this site. I know for a fact, from chatting to hundreds of Amiga users around the world on IRC, MSN and through forum private messages, that there are many people who would post a lot more often about Amiga-related projects and ideas if they weren't afraid of having their thread derailed by someone whose only intent is to crush their spirit and stop them from wanting to go any further with their idea.
+1
and thanks for saving me all that typing! *whew* :)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Argo on October 24, 2010, 04:58:31 AM
Quote from: smerf;586610
Hi,

@Cammy,

Wow!!

Will feature X work on the new Amiga X1000, and you also get a feature Y for the same pirce. I will buy it as soon as it hits the market for the Amiga X1000.

smerf


Exhibit A.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: orb85750 on October 24, 2010, 05:10:04 AM
IMHO, rather than announcing this issue to the whole board, the admins could contact the few suspected trolls directly and warn them that this is not the place for the wholesale destruction of any Amiga camp.  It's clear that 99% of the users on this board are not engaged in such malicious behavior.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: LoadWB on October 24, 2010, 05:28:14 AM
While reading through here I was just thinking about how much fun trolls can be, provided you do not feed the them, and just realize that these sad fecks have nothing better to do with their lives.

And then I saw a troll trolling and anti-troll thread.  Pretty neat stuff.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: marcfrick2112 on October 24, 2010, 06:42:28 AM
Another +1 for Cammy's post! :)

TRUE Trolls should be moderated ..... And there's been a bit o' trolling lately on A.org....
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kickstart on October 24, 2010, 06:53:02 AM
Add another kind of poster, the persistent one.

This kind of poster write again and again the same idea, by example: morphos isnt amiga.

If thread speak about pancakes you can read (again) the same, too boring

Anyway a power-demostration-thread-like isnt a good idea but if anyone thinks that world is a safer place after that...
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: koaftder on October 24, 2010, 06:55:55 AM
A note for the mods:

Thanks for not being jerks. Thanks for not abusing your privilege. Thanks for making this a great site.

A note for the new owner(s):

Thanks for not changing this place. Thanks for keeping everything alive and running.

A note to the community:

In my opinion this is the best site for an Amiga enthusiast. The culture here is awesome and I'm glad to be a part of it. I hope it continues.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: runequester on October 24, 2010, 07:46:58 AM
Its easy kids: Answer a few questions before posting:

A: Am I posting this purely to be a dickweed ?

B: Will my post add anything useful to the conversation ?

C: Has my post been repeated 10.000 times before ?


Most variations of "MORPH OS IS NOT AMIGA" and "X1000 IS EXPENSIVE" fail the third test, and likely the second as well.n
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: runequester on October 24, 2010, 07:48:42 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;586595
Oh, so having a different opinion is grounds for being banned?  And Transition has appointed you as his spokesman?

There's a difference between having a different opinion and being a dick about it.


The best analogy here is someone telling you "please don't piss in the pool" and the people being outraged: "we can't piss anywhere within 20 miles of the pool!"
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: LoadWB on October 24, 2010, 08:55:45 AM
Quote from: runequester;586627
There's a difference between having a different opinion and being a dick about it.


The best analogy here is someone telling you "please don't piss in the pool" and the people being outraged: "we can't piss anywhere within 20 miles of the pool!"


And, frankly, the trolling IS completely off-topic in the first place.  All it does is serve to drive the thread into the ground, obfuscating the original content and intent.  Even more so when people take the bait.

If you have a burr up your butt that falls into the categories specified previously, blog about it or start your own anti-amiga.org and leave the rest of us alone.

And, as Cammy has demonstrated, it works both ways.  If obvious troll is obviously trolling, just let it ride.  Read the post with pity, and move along.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: runequester;586627
There's a difference between having a different opinion and being a dick about it.


Problem is that all too many folks are happy to leap up and down and whine like little children whenever they come across opinions that differ from their own.

If there was a problem then as orb85750 stated, it would have been far better for this to have been taken private with the individuals concerned rather than this.

Quote from: LoadWB;586633
All it does is serve to drive the thread into the ground, obfuscating the original content and intent.


Which to be blunt it absolutely deserves. As to the original intent, whatever that may have been it died the moment this thread was started. Piru and ferrellsl are bang on the money - all that has been achieved is a chilling effect.

This threat/thread serves no useful purpose. Speak directly to those involved.

Quote from: LoadWB;586633

If you have a burr up your butt that falls into the categories specified previously, blog about it or start your own anti-amiga.org and leave the rest of us alone.


Yes, how dare people have descenting opinion on this site! Burn the strangers!

Hmm, where have I read crap like that before? Wait don't tell me, it'll come to me...
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ajlwalker on October 24, 2010, 09:19:49 AM
+1 Cammy
and +1 Transition, big time, it needed said.

I seem to recall reading somewhere theat a.org is pushing to achieve 10,000 users.  This won't happen if the current state of a.org is allowed to continue.  Perhaps the trolls will say this won't happen anyway.

Day in, day out, we see childish antics on here.  I rarely post any more at all, and will probably just give up on this site at some stage.  Don't worry I won't be making an announcement and flouncing off.  If I don't like a club, I just leave, simple as that.

However, if the owners do decide to pursue this, then perhaps those it is aimed at will like to consider their future here.  Maybe then we would see the silent membership start contributing.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: amigadave on October 24, 2010, 09:32:26 AM
@Transition,

I find it interesting that some of the members that are complaining the loudest, are also the same members that are often seen disrupting threads with off topic, negative, thread derailing, crap postings that serve no useful purpose to the community, or this site.  I am glad that the administrators and moderators here have put the members on notice that too much nonsense will have consequences (and hopefully repeated offenses will result in more lengthy vacations from A.org).

@Cammy,

+1

@who ever said that many members here may be hesitant to post, or would post more often if they felt that there were less trolls that criticize posts for no better reason than to try to humiliate other posters, or create bad feelings where none should exist (or something to that effect), I totally agree.  With stricter enforcement of the existing posting guidelines, or even enforcement of some new guidelines that are aimed at lessening the amount of negative comments and trolling, there is a chance that the number of posters may go up.  If not, I would prefer quality of posts, over quantity any day.

Thanks for bringing up this topic and I hope that it will stem the tide of "noise-to- useful content" here and lead to more productive interactions between all flavors of the Amiga Experience.  Differences are valued, but confrontation without a constructive purpose is a useless waste of time and energy for everyone.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: amigadave;586637
I find it interesting that some of the members that are complaining the loudest, are also the same members that are often seen disrupting threads with off topic, negative, thread derailing, crap postings that serve no useful purpose to the community, or this site.


And using the passive aggressive is absolutely not negative or liable to cause aggravation in any way, right?

Quote from: amigadave;586637

@Cammy,

+1


There's a shocker.

Two words: Project Natami (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=584236&postcount=54).

;)

Quote from: amigadave;586637

@who ever said that many members here may be hesitant to post, or would post more often if they felt that there were less trolls that criticize posts for no better reason than to try to humiliate other posters, or create bad feelings where none should exist (or something to that effect), I totally agree.  


Because your first paragraph totally wasn't about trying to humiliate people into your way of thinking...

Quote from: amigadave;586637

or even enforcement of some new guidelines that are aimed at lessening the amount of negative comments  


Welcome to Amigaworld.net!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 11:15:33 AM
Quote from: kickstart;586623
If thread speak about pancakes you can read (again) the same, too boring.


Pancakes are an amiga.org tradition. Every forum gets a few house memes over the years.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: cha05e90 on October 24, 2010, 11:16:09 AM
Quote from: the_leander;586644
And using the passive aggressive is absolutely not negative or liable to cause aggravation in any way, right?

Interesting personal interpretation.  

Quote from: the_leander;586644
There's a shocker. Two words: Project Natami (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=584236&postcount=54).

Yes. Especially if the price tag for this will be revealed.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: cha05e90;586651
Interesting personal interpretation.  


Accurate too. ;)

Quote from: cha05e90;586651

Yes. Especially if the price tag for this will be revealed.


I expect less than the X1000, possibly around the same price as the Sam 440.

The point about my linking to that thread however is, as much as I'm a total douche at times, I have trouble stomaching moral guidance from someone who less than a month ago lied to this forum about what was happening in the Natami project's management in an apparent attempt to torpedo it.

inb4whiteknights
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: VingtTrois on October 24, 2010, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586607
This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion....


+++1
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Cammy on October 24, 2010, 02:15:58 PM
the_leander, I think you have misinterpreted something in the Natami thread, I never lied about anything at all. I was removed from the Natami team without any explanation, and although Gunnar provided an IRC log which he claims was the basis for my removal, Forcie has told me on IRC that he doesn't know exactly who removed me or why. I admit I should have handled it with a little more tact considering how blown out of proportion the reactions in that thread were, but if you'll look back through my entire history of posts on this and other Amiga forums you'll see that one post where I got a little too personal is the exception among what I think has been mostly positive or constructive conversation over the years. I don't see any point in lying.

And I don't know where you got the idea I was offering moral guidance, my post in this thread was an attempt to stop the fighting by explaining in my own terms what I think would be considered trolling and what's not.

If you have a problem with me personally, how about we deal with it on IRC? I don't think you'll succeed in turning my friends against me by persisting the way you are here.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tension on October 24, 2010, 02:18:10 PM
So basically if i criticise anything amiga-related i must be a troll?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tension on October 24, 2010, 02:25:10 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586682
the_leander, I think you have misinterpreted something in the Natami thread, I never lied about anything at all. I was removed from the Natami team without any explanation, and although Gunnar provided an IRC log which he claims was the basis for my removal, Forcie has told me on IRC that he doesn't know exactly who removed me or why. I admit I should have handled it with a little more tact considering how blown out of proportion the reactions in that thread were, but if you'll look back through my entire history of posts on this and other Amiga forums you'll see that one post where I got a little too personal is the exception among what I think has been mostly positive or constructive conversation over the years. I don't see any point in lying.

And I don't know where you got the idea I was offering moral guidance, my post in this thread was an attempt to stop the fighting by explaining in my own terms what I think would be considered trolling and what's not.

If you have a problem with me personally, how about we deal with it on IRC? I don't think you'll succeed in turning my friends against me by persisting the way you are here.


This sounds like trolling to me.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Cammy on October 24, 2010, 02:26:48 PM
Tension, of course it would, you have had an unfounded grudge against me for a long time now.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 02:30:41 PM
Look, let's not lose sight of the main issue here. That being, you all have to do as I say.

/me runs away :D
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586682
if you'll look back through my entire history of posts on this and other Amiga forums you'll see that one post where I got a little too personal is the exception


I don't have to look back through your post history - I've seen your name crop up often enough with helpful suggestions on threads about software issues to know that.

Quote from: Cammy;586682

If you have a problem with me personally


I don't know you nearly well enough to have a problem with you. Tbh I think this is actually the first time I've ever spoken with you... I might be wrong.

Quote from: Cammy;586682
I don't think you'll succeed in turning my friends against me by persisting the way you are here.


You credit me with a plan of action that wouldn't in a million years occur to me.

Honestly, I'm not that smart, or devious. If you haven't guessed by my posting style, I'm not a particularly subtle creature. If I genuinely had a problem with you, I'd tell you straight up.

Machiavelli I ain't.

If you say that I've somehow misinterpreted what I read on that thread - fair enough. I'll go with that and I formally retract my previous comment.

As a side note: I've been in the same IRC chan as you for the past two hours. ;)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586688
Look, let's not lose sight of the main issue here. That being, you all have to do as I say.

/me runs away :D


Well, that's torn it

All hail the king!

 :D
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: lsmart on October 24, 2010, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: Piru;586578

If the posting guidelines are broken, moderate the comments.


If it is done repeatedly ... why not delete the account? I don´t think trolls have a special right to post. A german news site has a particular useful feature: you can set ignore lists for people of whom you don´t want to read comments from. The rest of the forum remains visible. That´s peace of mind.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 02:39:16 PM
Quote from: lsmart;586691
If it is done repeatedly ... why not delete the account? I don´t think trolls have a special right to post. A german news site has a particular useful feature: you can set ignore lists for people of whom you don´t want to read comments from. The rest of the forum remains visible. That´s peace of mind.


You do know that this place has an ignore feature, right?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586607
This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion:


Original-Poster: This is a new Amiga related project I am working on. It has feature X and it can also do feature Y.

Positive-person: Great work! I'm glad you have taken the time to start this project which is something that various Amiga users may find a use for and enjoy!

Not-a-troll: Looks okay, can you add feature Z as well?

Another-non-troll: Have you considered compiling it for my Amiga-like OS of choice? I would use it if you do. Keep up the good work!

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.

Troll-Feeder: Where can I download the iPhone version from?



The trolls are pretty consistent, they will continue to post cheeky or cruel remarks at any chance they get. They prefer to start a fight and back out of it while others join in and continue it, or take a stab when they feel there's no chance of retaliation. I have no problem with cowards like this being removed from the forum.

I'm sure the moderators don't regard passionate, opinionated Amiga users who like to debate about their favorite platform as trolls. I think a lot of people are getting upset about something that's not going to affect them in any negative way, and in fact it could be just what we need to get more Amiga-related discussion happening on this site. I know for a fact, from chatting to hundreds of Amiga users around the world on IRC, MSN and through forum private messages, that there are many people who would post a lot more often about Amiga-related projects and ideas if they weren't afraid of having their thread derailed by someone whose only intent is to crush their spirit and stop them from wanting to go any further with their idea.

Well, then why can't you be an adult and just ignore the trolls instead of coming up with ambiguous reasons to just ban people?  Are the people on this forum really so immature and intellectually feeble as to need a censor to remove comments that they might not like?  Wait, don't answer that question.  I'm beginning to see a trend here.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 02:45:13 PM
Quote from: the_leander;586690
Well, that's torn it

All hail the king!

 :D


Was thinking more like this:

(http://extropia.co.uk/img/modfather.png)

Respect me, respect the family...:lol:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 02:46:23 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586695
Was thinking more like this:

(http://extropia.co.uk/img/modfather.png)

Respect me, respect the family...:lol:


:rofl:

So, you've found your next avatar then eh? ;)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: gazgod on October 24, 2010, 03:10:01 PM
I fail to see the point of this thread, if the moderation policy of this site is changing than a change to the T&C is in order and a news item to point this out to regulars that probably haven't read them for years. If the policy isn't changing than WTF is this thread about?

On a side note it interesting to see several of the aw regulars pop up on this thread, we all know how they feel about moderation and where it will lead if unchallenged.

Gaz
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Golem!dk on October 24, 2010, 03:21:47 PM
@Transition

-1

I quite like amiga.org and the current moderation here, don't ruin it.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: LoadWB on October 24, 2010, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: Tension;586683
So basically if i criticise anything amiga-related i must be a troll?


Asked and answered.  The point is not that if you have anything anti-Amiga to say you cannot say it -- at least, that is my interpretation.  The point has been elegantly demonstrated already: there are a number of posters who not only do not have positive things to say about Amiga-related subjects, but flame the shyt out of threads with vitriolic negativity.  Constructive criticism is a good thing, IMHO, but not the constant "your an idiot for developing anything on a dead platform," and such ilk.  It really seems like some people have nothing better to do than to spew garbage into otherwise good threads.

Personally, I am not in favor of wielding the ban hammer against those who troll, nor mega-moderating their posts.  People have opinions and that is a Good Thing(tm).  I think the distinction is whether those opinions are relevant to the thread in terms of providing something constructive, whether in support or criticism of.  I feel the community can moderate itself to a large extent by simply ignoring asshole-ish posts which contribute nothing.

Either way, it seems Amiga.org could start heading the way of extinction.  Either by being overrun with trolls and feeders, or by being aggressively moderated to the point of uselessness as debate is quelled due to fear of reprisal.  Neither of these is a pleasant option.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: TheGoose on October 24, 2010, 03:43:48 PM
LOL. You can have any color suite you like sir, as long as it's gray.

Moderation is always, inherently entangled in a slippery slope toward censorship. And that's way you have to stay away from it. And no one person communicates in categorical way, where some litmus test can be applied.

@ Transition - So what tipped the scale? What thread caused all this, do tell.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Gulliver on October 24, 2010, 04:14:28 PM
It is a pitty. I enjoy heated discussions, reading, and being a part of them.
Common sense depends on the eye of the beholder, and the same goes to the interpretation and missinterpretation of trolling.

In this moments of genuine threats to freedom of expression (you can call them whatever you please), is that I remember how I really miss that guy called Wayne, and that Amiga online forum he had.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 05:14:30 PM
@Transition
Finally! This is something i have been waiting for. I have been avoiding this forum alot because some certain people here troll and flame certain "camps" no matter what.
I hope this will finally lead to all OS alternative being discussed without having to get see people spread fud and lies about my OS/platform of choice.
I am all ok for constructive criticism and discussion though.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 05:19:53 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586607
This is what I think the difference is between trolling and expressing an opinion:


Original-Poster: This is a new Amiga related project I am working on. It has feature X and it can also do feature Y.

Positive-person: Great work! I'm glad you have taken the time to start this project which is something that various Amiga users may find a use for and enjoy!

Not-a-troll: Looks okay, can you add feature Z as well?

Another-non-troll: Have you considered compiling it for my Amiga-like OS of choice? I would use it if you do. Keep up the good work!

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.

Troll-Feeder: Where can I download the iPhone version from?



The trolls are pretty consistent, they will continue to post cheeky or cruel remarks at any chance they get. They prefer to start a fight and back out of it while others join in and continue it, or take a stab when they feel there's no chance of retaliation. I have no problem with cowards like this being removed from the forum.

I'm sure the moderators don't regard passionate, opinionated Amiga users who like to debate about their favorite platform as trolls. I think a lot of people are getting upset about something that's not going to affect them in any negative way, and in fact it could be just what we need to get more Amiga-related discussion happening on this site. I know for a fact, from chatting to hundreds of Amiga users around the world on IRC, MSN and through forum private messages, that there are many people who would post a lot more often about Amiga-related projects and ideas if they weren't afraid of having their thread derailed by someone whose only intent is to crush their spirit and stop them from wanting to go any further with their idea.

Exactly!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;586714
It is a pitty. I enjoy heated discussions, reading, and being a part of them.
Common sense depends on the eye of the beholder, and the same goes to the interpretation and missinterpretation of trolling.

In this moments of genuine threats to freedom of expression (you can call them whatever you please), is that I remember how I really miss that guy called Wayne, and that Amiga online forum he had.
Who said that constructive discussions arent allowed??
It is clearly some people here who enjoy trolling as it is the same names showing up in every thread. Take for example when X1000+ custom mouse/keyboard was first showed. Some even managed to dig up shit about the keyboard/mouse claiming trevor is a evil dude who is only doing this to rip off naive OS4.x fanboys.

And it is no longer a real discussion anymore when the trolls here have driven away nearly every OS4.x user to other sites.
I think this change in moderation will lead to more users coming back which will be good for all our OS alternatives.
We should just work more together instead of fighting. I myself would not mind owning a MOS box either and have nothing against either people who choose aros, mos, classic or whatever over 4.x.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586729
Take for example when X1000+ custom mouse/keyboard was first showed. Some even managed to dig up shit about the keyboard/mouse claiming trevor is a evil dude who is only doing this to rip off naive OS4.x fanboys.
Would you be kind enough to specify who that "some" includes? Just to clear any potential misunderstanding.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 05:42:01 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586729

And it is no longer a real discussion anymore when the trolls here have driven away nearly every OS4.x user to other sites.


Say what?

That's some nice historical revisionism you have going there.

See the rest of us remember Mikey_C whining like a prissy bitch when Wayne refused to disallow MorphOS and AROS discussion on here. This in turn led to him taking the OS4 fanbois and other assorted ditto heads over to the newly created AW.net - the exodus.

Remind me again, how did that work out for you folks anyway?

Oh yes that's right, he aided in the commission of the single largest fraud this community has ever had perpetrated against it. Then he enacted yet another exodus to amigans.net when yet again those evil people with their own, non mikey approved viewpoints showed up and started asking some hard questions.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tension on October 24, 2010, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: Cammy;586607

Troll: I have no use for this (because I don't use an Amiga-like system at all), so why are you bothering to make it?

Another-Troll: Pfft, I can do that on my iPhone.



Have I got this right?

So if somebody asks you why you are doing something that makes them a troll?

If somebody points out that they can use their iPhone to do the job instead, then that makes them a troll?

What a load of excrement.  This digital extremism is quite shocking.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 05:59:55 PM
Come on guys, let's not use the thread as an excuse to dredge up old conflicts.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 06:10:51 PM
Quote from: the_leander;586733
Say what?

That's some nice historical revisionism you have going there.

See the rest of us remember Mikey_C whining like a prissy bitch when Wayne refused to disallow MorphOS and AROS discussion on here. This in turn led to him taking the OS4 fanbois and other assorted ditto heads over to the newly created AW.net - the exodus.

Remind me again, how did that work out for you folks anyway?

Oh yes that's right, he aided in the commission of the single largest fraud this community has ever had perpetrated against it. Then he enacted yet another exodus to amigans.net when yet again those evil people with their own, non mikey approved viewpoints showed up and started asking some hard questions.

What the heck are you talking about?? I clearly said i want equal discussions of all platform, just not mindless fud or trolling. I disagree as much with Mikey_C opinionw on moderation as much as you. I think all Amiga/amiga like oses should be treated equally.

And again i have to make it clear that i have absolutely nothing against constructive critism or discussion. There are things i dont agree about in the OS4.x world as well even though it is my OS of choice at the moment.

Oh and i stay away from Amigans as well because i dont like the moderation there. So i clearly dont want this site to become like another amigans clone or how amigaworld was in the past.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Boot_WB on October 24, 2010, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586725
@Transition
Finally! This is something i have been waiting for. I have been avoiding this forum alot because some certain people here troll and flame certain "camps" no matter what.
I hope this will finally lead to all OS alternative being discussed without having to get see people spread fud and lies about my OS/platform of choice.
I am all ok for constructive criticism and discussion though.

+1
Nice post Tomas.

I especially liked that this could have come from a user of either MorphOS, AmigaOS 4.x, AROS, or 68K.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Duce on October 24, 2010, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: koaftder;586503
Keep this site the way it was when Wayne was in charge, that's all I ask.

Exactly.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 06:18:05 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586739
What the heck are you talking about?? I clearly said i want equal discussions of all platform, just not mindless fud or trolling.


What you said was that the reason for the OS4 fanboys leaving was due to trolling.

This is patently untrue. That is all.

You'll note I didn't comment on the rest of your post. There is a good reason for that - there was nothing in it that warranted comment that hadn't already been brought up. Likewise with your response, beyond this bit, there isn't anything needing to be discussed.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 06:22:39 PM
Quote from: the_leander;586743
What you said was that the reason for the OS4 fanboys leaving was due to trolling.

This is patently untrue. That is all.

You'll note I didn't comment on the rest of your post. There is a good reason for that - there was nothing in it that warranted comment that hadn't already been brought up. Likewise with your response, beyond this bit, there isn't anything needing to be discussed.
And there you go with name calling again. But anyways why does other members at amigaworld express that they feel the same way as me?? They used to be regulars at amiga.org, but started avoiding this forum more and more as the trolling developed.
Now most active users here are mainly either classic users, mos users and aros users.

And cant we please stop with the name calling? Why call someone a fanboy because they choose AmigaOS4.x over for example MOS?
Most OS4.x users dont have anything against the alternative. It is a few select fews that got problem with the alternatives just like how it is a few select few who keeps trolling every 4.x related threads on this forum.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586745
And there you go with name calling again.


And there you go trying to change the subject again. Damn it really must be chafing you to try to dodge again.

What makes you think given that it didn't work the first time, that it'd work this time?

Your claim regarding the reason the OS4 fanboys left is wrong and no amount of bawwwing about my use of the word fanboy is going to change that.

Quote from: Tomas;586745


Still doesn't make your claim any more accurate though.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: desiv on October 24, 2010, 06:47:51 PM
Nice..

Insults..
Digging up old threads which are unrelated to this discussion.
Hyperbole at it's finest...

I don't see why people think amiga.org might need more moderation.  ;-)

I look at it this way.

If you think there's enough of a possibility that your posting style might be considered trolling, then you might want to consider why that is??

And, for the record, I don't think that someone being correct is a "get out of jail free card" for trolling.  You can be smart and correct, and still a troll.

Can't we all just get along!!  

desiv

p.s.  The above statements are the poster's own and are not endorsed by management in any way.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 06:54:11 PM
Quote from: the_leander;586748
And there you go trying to change the subject again. Damn it really must be chafing you to try to dodge again.

What makes you think given that it didn't work the first time, that it'd work this time?

Your claim regarding the reason the OS4 fanboys left is wrong and no amount of bawwwing about my use of the word fanboy is going to change that.



Still doesn't make your claim any more accurate though.

Okay.. Show me that i am wrong then. And of course i am going to respond when you call people who use OS4.1 for a fanboy. Do you scream fanboys at people who use linux or windows as well? Why cant you respect that i choose OS4.x?

I have been active on this forum for a decade now and been a reguluar guest visitior since beginning as well. I have seen the changes with my own eyes, i have seen people who have expressed those very same views as me and seen how the OS4 users have slowly shifted more towards sites like amigaworld.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 07:01:14 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586729
Some even managed to dig up shit about the keyboard/mouse claiming trevor is a evil dude who is only doing this to rip off naive OS4.x fanboys.
Who are these "some"? It would be fair to specify who you're accusing of trolling.

Surely you're able to name them considering you thought it was important enough to pick this thread as an example of bad behavior.

(I asked this once already, I bet you missed my first question)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: zylesea on October 24, 2010, 07:03:43 PM
I like straight talk. Sometimes it may get harsh and rough. But in general you should not forget to keep a civilized behaviour. I understood transition's post not as an announcement of a politics change, but just a reminder about the terms of use.
Say what you wnat to say, but try to keep it civilized. Often discussions get hot and then one word gives the other - that should still be allowed, that is discussion culture.
And for the straight talk. I guess there are ppl who think the world becomes wonderfull lala-land when all ppl talk politically correct. But I guess the world becomes dumb and stupid then. The real world isn't a lala-land and that is good IMHO. Also I guess "political correctness" is differently popular is different countries. Personally I am not a fan of this, but rather prefer the "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" approach.
A discussion should contain facts, view points and a good share of emotion, but of course you should avoid to directly insult other ppl.  Moderation should take care that it doesn't get too personal and/or OT (look for example at the bunny, while I kind of like it I guess it's probably a bit too much for most ppl and definitely not always constructive (though there *are* good discussions)).

Keep it as it recently was and most ppl should be fine with that.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: klx300r on October 24, 2010, 07:14:27 PM
@ piru

Surely you know how to use the search function if you so desperately want to find out ?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 07:22:23 PM
Quote from: klx300r;586759
@ piru

Surely you know how to use the search function if you so desperately want to find out ?
I've read the threads of course. I didn't find the answer from them. Thus I have to ask Tomas directly.

It has to go both ways. If someone is being accused of trolling there has to be a way for the accused to defend oneself.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 07:24:05 PM
Quote from: Piru;586752
Who are these "some"? It would be fair to specify who you're accusing of trolling.

Surely you're able to name them considering you thought it was important enough to pick this thread as an example of bad behavior.

(I asked this once already, I bet you missed my first question)

I dont think that would be a wise idea when i am got attacked for using that thread as example in first place.
I dont have a photographic memory, dont feel like going so low to mention any names and dont feel like digging for such threads.
It was just one simple example out of many.

Again i wonder why we cant just put the past behind us and stop the damn namecalling.
I dont see why a person should be attacked for their choice of OS or fud and negativity being spread in nearly every single post about OS4.x.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: Piru;586762
I've read the threads of course. I didn't find the answer from them. Thus I have to ask Tomas directly.

It has to go both ways. If someone is being accused of trolling there has to be a way for the accused to defend oneself.
I am not accusing any individuals about anything. I just provided a example of what i define as trolling.
It wasnt just one individual either...
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 07:30:33 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586763
Again i wonder why we cant just put the past behind us
It was you who brought those threads up. So I wonder, why did you?

I don't see any blatant trolling in those threads. Neither can I see anyone calling Trevor evil.

If you throw such accusations in the air you better be prepared to back them up with facts. If you don't you could be accused of trolling.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 07:35:30 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586751
Okay.. Show me that i am wrong then.


I believe you have that backwards - show us where we're right.

You forget, just as you were here from the beginning, so too were we.

Quote from: Tomas;586751

Do you scream fanboys at people who use linux or windows as well? Why cant you respect that i choose OS4.x?


Scream? lulz.

Lets see, on occasion, depending on the situation, yes I'll call fanboy, regardless of the hardware or OS being evangelised. I don't care that you use OS4 any more than I care about Piru using MorphOS or runequester linux or arkhan use windows. So long as it works for you fantastic. I'm not however going to give you special consideration based on your choice of OS.

Quote from: Tomas;586751

I have been active on this forum for a decade now and been a reguluar guest visitior since beginning as well. I have seen the changes with my own eyes, i have seen people who have expressed those very same views as me and seen how the OS4 users have slowly shifted more towards sites like amigaworld.


As have I. And I watched whilst both the red and blue camp ripped each other to pieces during 03-04. I watched Mikey_C lead the exodus to AW when Wayne refused to silence the other side. The blues moved more toward Morphzone leaving this place to be a more or less neutral territory mainly catering for classic and AROS. With the worst offenders from both sides in their respective sites gone this place actually prospered.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586764
I just provided a example of what i define as trolling.

Could you elaborate your definition of trolling a bit? What in those threads was trolling? Who claimed Trevor to be evil?

If such threads are trolling and this website is going to ban the trolls then certainly we need to know.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Amiga_Nut on October 24, 2010, 07:42:40 PM
Quote from: Piru;586577
I'll bite.

Is MorphOS a great project, too?
Do you believe AROS is not Amiga as such?

So you consider the Apple stigma to prevail even if the original company no longer gets any profit from the sales?


Call me a realist but that's just not going to happen. Commodore designers had it easy in comparison to has to be done today. HW designers do remarkable things today, you can't even remotely compare it with VIC-II/SID or Paula/Agnus/Denise stuff.


Yes MOS IS a great project, I am glad all three OS choice exist and hope all continue to flourish with further development. The worst thing that happened to the computing world is we went from Acorn/Atari/Commodore/Apple/PC compatibles to today.

Apple hardware -OS and BIOS/bootstrap = PPC generic hardware....give me a boing ball sticker to cover that Apple logo and it's fine most of the time. I don't like Apple mice or keyboards but they're easy enough to change on USB machines thankfully so OS4 ported to fast PPC Macs is fine with me still. My comment about iPad and iPhone's lack of ability to use flash based sites/technology was more to show they do have quite moronic moments...web enabled devices that can't access flash sites...what were they thinking ;)

My point was more about taking what exists ie Xenon PPC compatible CPU + ATI GPU + 400mhz SDRAM and an engineer creating the logic to assemble a motherboard for it. I too do not ever envisage a small company doing what IBM do on a yearly basis for the console manufacturers (making a better price/performance CPU for their customers). I know that you won't make a better CPU than IBM or a better GPU than ATI/Nvidia in your garage but that doesn't mean you have to purchase hugely redundant and expensive tech based on G5s as in the case of x1000s. Little bit of savvy and talent in engineering can go a long way, the pieces of the puzzle are their for a fantastic new OS4 machine if someone really tries, and at less than 1/2 price of your average* PC

(ie not the bargain bucket cheap crap netbooks/laptops/towers with Intel GMA graphics hardwired on motherboard that can't even run games from 2001 with Transform and Lighting missing from the GPU)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 07:50:20 PM
Amiga_Nut

I'd just like to say thankyou.

Not for the content of the post, but the fact that it was so far away from where this discussion was heading.

I can't honestly see this going anywhere at this point beyond further south.

Not that I could see much good coming of it to begin with but that's beside the point.

I think perhaps, for everyone involved, it might be a good idea to lock this thread. Either way I'm out of here.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Akiko on October 24, 2010, 07:51:12 PM
@Transition

Thank you for making your intentions clear to clean up this site, I hope now that some certain individuals
will think twice before hijacking OS4 related threads again, indeed that goes for any of the other platforms.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 07:55:12 PM
@the_leander
This is the last post from you that i will bother to respond to. I dont want to waste more time on people who act so childish.
Quote

I believe you have that backwards - show us where we're right.

You forget, just as you were here from the beginning, so too were we.


Huh? How can i prove something like that? I just stated my own observations and what other OS4 users have expressed earlier.
But i guess you are suggesting i am lying now?
Can you explain why there are so few OS4.x users here and why most hang out in amigaworld or at amigans these days?
Quote
Lets see, on occasion, depending on the situation, yes I'll call fanboy, regardless of the hardware or OS being evangelised. I don't care that you use OS4 any more than I care about Piru using MorphOS or runequester linux or arkhan use windows. So long as it works for you fantastic. I'm not however going to give you special consideration based on your choice of OS.


But yet you pretty much called me and other OS4 users a fanboy without even considering that alot of us might also be interested in alternative oses and even use other platforms as main system.
I myself have been looking recently for a mac system so that i can also run MOS, i have a linux box, a windows laptop, mac ibook, classic amiga systems and a sam running 4.1. How can i be a OS4 fanboy when i even trying to get hold of a MOS system?
Yes, there are fanboys in every "camp", but those are few in minority.
And i never asked for any special consideration. All i want is the baseless trolling to stop as it drives away people from this site. I am not sure which "camp" you are in, but would you like it if every thread about your platorm was filled with baseless negativity and fud from people who have not even used said OS?
There is huge difference between constructive criticism and people filling every thread with fud.

Quote
As have I. And I watched whilst both the red and blue camp ripped each other to pieces during 03-04. I watched Mikey_C lead the exodus to AW when Wayne refused to silence the other side. The blues moved more toward Morphzone leaving this place to be a more or less neutral territory mainly catering for classic and AROS. With the worst offenders from both sides in their respective sites gone this place actually prospered.

Why do you consantly keep bringing up the past and Mikey_C? Is it not time to leave the past behind us like most mature users have already done? It is people like you that are the reason why there is still conflicts in this community.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 07:58:01 PM
Ok, I have the acid test for those that aren't sure what constitutes trolling. Read on!

If you are posting purely to solicit this reaction:

(http://extropia.co.uk/img/ffffuuuu.jpg)

you are probably trolling and should stop.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Piru;586765
It was you who brought those threads up. So I wonder, why did you?

I don't see any blatant trolling in those threads. Neither can I see anyone calling Trevor evil.

If you throw such accusations in the air you better be prepared to back them up with facts. If you don't you could be accused of trolling.
Did you not read my reply?? I provided an example on what i think is going over the line, so that you could see what i meant by trolling. I would not have had a problem if a person said that the keyboard was maybe a bit too price for him/her or that he/she did not like design.
I do however have a problem when people accuse people like trevor for using this keyboard as a way to ripoff OS4.x "fanboys"

You must be really blind if you dont think that it would be trolling to suggest that Trevor is ripping off people on purpose.

I was warned to not bring up such stuff in this thread, so it would not be a good idea to dig up those examples.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 08:00:31 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586779
@the_leander

It is people like you that are the reason why there is still conflicts in this community.

Ouch.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 08:02:02 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586779

Why do you consantly keep bringing up the past and Mikey_C? Is it not time to leave the past behind us like most mature users have already done?


We'll leave the past alone when you stop trying to re-write it with your unproven claims.

Quote from: Tomas;586779

It is people like you that are the reason why there is still conflicts in this community.


You keep telling yourself that.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 08:03:01 PM
You lot seem determined to make me lock this thread :-/
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Piru on October 24, 2010, 08:05:33 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586781
Did you not read my reply??
Yes.
Quote
I provided an example on what i think is going over the line, so that you could see what i meant by trolling.
Yes, that is what you said but I really don't see it. Thus, I'd like you to explain it in more detail so that even I can understand.

Quote
I would not have had a problem if a person said that the keyboard was maybe a bit too price for him/her or that he/she did not like design.
Yes, I can see that in the said thread.
 
Quote
I do however have a problem when people accuse people like trevor for using this keyboard as a way to ripoff OS4.x "fanboys"
Who said that? Where? I really can't find such post. Maybe I'm reading a wrong thread?

This is important. We wouldn't want to have opinions and heated discussion being labeled trolling for wrong reasons, now would we?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 08:10:34 PM
@piru
Like i said, i dont know who said that. I dont know exactly what the thread was named and i dont think it would be a good idea for me to provide names even if i could dig it up.
It was in a thread about the show in beligum i think when the keyboard and systems was first shown.
I cant promise you will find the word evil there though :P It was more the tone and context that got me to include that word. And like i said, it wasnt just one guy.

But cant we just put this to rest now?? I regret already mentioning that thread even though i am still standing by my opinion that it was pure trolling.

Also dont get me wrong... I am not blaming any side or "camp" here as there are plenty of such trolls on the red side as well.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Argo on October 24, 2010, 08:42:45 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586784
You lot seem determined to make me lock this thread :-/


How ironic!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: ferrellsl on October 24, 2010, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: Argo;586795
How ironic!


He's just bluffing!  A censor would never censor himself!  That would be an admission of some sort!  LOL
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Well, seeing as my attempts to lighten the mood have failed so badly, I might as well. The moment moderation policy is mentioned, it seems as if the sky is falling.

I may be misreading the situation, but I can't really see anything in the original post that isn't already covered in the site rules. I've always maintained that trolls - as distinct from people that are just highly opinionated - are a waste of space anyway, but thankfully we don't have much in the way of working examples.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: nicholas on October 24, 2010, 09:28:12 PM
Please do not let this place turn into AW.net or (God forbid) the loony bin that is amigans.net!

Pretty please with pink ribbons and knobs on! :D
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: nicholas on October 24, 2010, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586819
people that are just highly opinionated


Pretty much all of us then! ;)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tension on October 24, 2010, 09:32:27 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586819
Well, seeing as my attempts to lighten the mood have failed so badly, I might as well. The moment moderation policy is mentioned, it seems as if the sky is falling.

I may be misreading the situation, but I can't really see anything in the original post that isn't already covered in the site rules. I've always maintained that trolls - as distinct from people that are just highly opinionated - are a waste of space anyway, but thankfully we don't have much in the way of working examples.


The danger is that people's interpretations of trolling are vastly different.

Providing an opinion should not be looked at as trolling, even if the person's opinion is wrong.

Disagreeing does not a troll make.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Karlos on October 24, 2010, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: Tension;586822
The danger is that people's interpretations of trolling are vastly different.

Providing an opinion should not be looked at as trolling, even if the person's opinion is wrong.

Disagreeing does not a troll make.

Nobody is suggesting otherwise. It's how you present your opinion that matters.

A synthetic example:

Stating an opinion: "Well, for me XYZ is not a solution compared to the alternatives, I'd not be able to justify the , but if other people want to go for it, that's up to them."

Obvious trolling: "XYZ is a pile of shit loved by retarded fanbois that I'd never touch in a million years and totally deserves to fail!"

The space inbetween is all shades of grey.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: cha05e90 on October 24, 2010, 09:45:27 PM
Quote from: nicholas;586820
Please do not let this place turn into AW.net or (God forbid) the loony bin that is amigans.net!

Is being offensive against other Amiga-related sites trolling or not?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: kolla on October 24, 2010, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: Tomas;586751
I have seen the changes with my own eyes, i have seen people who have expressed those very same views as me and seen how the OS4 users have slowly shifted more towards sites like amigaworld.


For my own account, I did not change much - but the entire "OS4 sphere", if one can call it that, changed alot, and in general, not for the better.

Luckily for all "fail and balanced" forum users, there's a new movie coming along now, "Troll hunters", I suggest you go  see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy2nAOdBUlw

:laughing:
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: nicholas on October 24, 2010, 10:11:14 PM
Quote from: cha05e90;586825
Is being offensive against other Amiga-related sites trolling or not?


Well, as I've not been moderated for that comment and at least one moderator is online and active within this thread I think you can probably deduce the answer to that question yourself.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: utri007 on October 24, 2010, 10:19:30 PM
There are lots of people who are NOT interested OS4 or hardware projects involved to it, but they jump every thread where those are discussed and start to negative whining.

I just don't get it why to read OS4 threads if you are not interested?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: nicholas on October 24, 2010, 10:21:10 PM
Quote from: utri007;586833
There are lots of people who are NOT interested OS4 or hardware projects involved to it, but they jump every thread where those are discussed and start to negative whining.

I just don't get it why to read OS4 threads if you are not interested?


This is an OS4 thread?
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Iggy on October 24, 2010, 10:33:22 PM
Guys, I have been censored on the Natami site for repeating things Gunnar posted and accusing him of unfair bias.
I was just censored two days ago for defending A-eon and Acubes pricing (I used to manage a company that sold low volume systems we built ourselves and it was damned expensive). Then again, I probably shouldn't have suggested that the Austrailian I was responding to was talking out his ass when he apparently had no understanding of ecomonies of scale. But think about it, I got a one day suspension of posting and a warning notice for defending the manufacturers of AOS4 hardware (and I'm a MofrphOS user)!

The point I'm trying to make is HERE if my comment was a little off color BUT I had a POINT, the worst that might happen is a warning from a moderator.

I love a little humor or attitude thrown into the mix and I've come to respect the opinions of many of you that I've had past disagreements with. I don't care what system you use (as long as it isn't Windows or OSX), I'm just glad you're supporting some segment of our market. Because that's now the point! It's OUR market. We have three deirivitive OS' and still see development on legacy systems and software. And think about it Bill McEwen can't selling AOS (and we all know CUSA's plans on using the Amiga name have little influence on our futures).

I think we all agree to disagree here, but as fractious as we can be (and occassionally down right silly) I don't see much real trolling here.
So, instead of saying something over the top (like I love you guys), let me just congradulate you on participating in tne of the few Amiga related forums that isn't totally f**ked up.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: the_leander on October 24, 2010, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Iggy;586836

The point I'm trying to make is HERE if my comment was a little off color BUT I had a POINT, the worst that might happen is a warning from a moderator.

I love a little humor or attitude thrown into the mix and I've come to respect the opinions of many of you that I've had past disagreements with.


Ditto.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tomas on October 24, 2010, 11:22:33 PM
Quote from: Karlos;586784
You lot seem determined to make me lock this thread :-/

I for one am done discussing this.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: giZmo350 on October 24, 2010, 11:33:36 PM
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! STFU already!
Consistantly the same peeps keep this thread going.
I'm glad you're not in charge of 3rd world armed countries!
This is EXACTLY the dribble people hate! You geniuses that think you are the masters of the universe with the use of the english language to preach diatribe are unbearable!

(http://www.yadamnfool.com/images/whambulance.jpg)

On the other hand, I always enjoy everyone's contribution to this site. Posts that don't interest me - I don't read. Simple as that. And as far as trolls go... regular members usually put them in there place real fast anyway. Besides, Transition's threat didn't seem to be aimed at drive-by trolls.... I think the offending member(s) know who they are. And for all those that need an explanation for every term, phrase or even euphemism, by a dictionary or consult a therapist!

And HAVE A NICE DAY!
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Tension on October 25, 2010, 12:57:44 AM
Locking threads isn't a very 'Amiga.org' thing to do. Does seem to be happening these days though...
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: cecilia on October 25, 2010, 01:09:43 AM
holy cow!
FOUR PAGES!!!!!

DO i GET A COOKIE FOR READING THE WHOLE THREAD?

:)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Argo on October 25, 2010, 01:12:23 AM
(http://www.thefoodsection.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/09/cookie.jpg)
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Wayne on October 25, 2010, 11:56:28 AM
Quote from: koaftder;586503
Keep this site the way it was when Wayne was in charge, that's all I ask.
The problem is -- and it's one that's difficult to see unless you're standing where I am -- it's not the site, or it's running that has changed.  It's the community as a whole.

A lot of people are now (finally) reaching that threshold between having a lot of friends here, and accepting that the Amiga isn't going to be the next Windows competitor.

Yeah, I know, it's 2010, not 1993, but I'm serious.  A lot of people in this community still believe that the Amiga still has a shot as a commercial platform, and the resulting backlash has very much become like a virus.

One devoted follower "gets it" and gets depressed about it, he shares that depression with two friends.  They "get it" and share it with four friends, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.  

In the end, what you end up with is a few dozen people who are still hanging around because they always have, and spreading their discontent to everyone else because they can't see the Amiga having a future any more.

Honestly, it's one of the smaller reasons that I left.  I -- like most of the troublemakers here -- just got to where, even if I wanted to be helpful, I found myself being more negative in replies than I thought was justified.

That being said, the owners aren't changing anything.  

They're just taking the same stance against the negative trolling that I should/would have taken had I stayed.  Trouble is, at the end of my ownership here, I honestly didn't care enough to do so any more, so in that regard, the new owners are 10 steps up on me.
Title: Re: A cautionary warning note for anti Amiga, AROS & MorphOS trolls
Post by: Pyromania on October 25, 2010, 11:55:13 PM
If your just a regular member of Amiga.org you should not read to much into this caution note. Truth be told no one knows how well Amiga OS 4.x & MorphOS will sell tomorrow. No one can say how many will or will not install AROS. There are trolls who sole mission seems to be trying to damage MorphOS & Amiga OS 4.x sales. We are just putting them on notice that their FUD campains are not welcome here and they might find their accounts no longer work if they insist on verbal malice and harm to others. Developers have spent many long hard hours making AROS, MorphOS & Amiga OS. Their efforts appreciated.