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AuthorTopic: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4  (Read 39679 times)

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Offline mikej

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #360 on: August 25, 2017, 10:08:40 PM »
Quote from: LoadWB;830023
@mikej

You looked familiar...

I only just put two and two together.


Lol. I've been quiet (and busy).

This is the image map of the netlist the tools are running. Credit to Oliver Galibert for the hard work.

http://fpgaarcade.com/68k/

Data IO pins are round the bottom. Op-code flows bottom left to right then up through the microcode on the RHS of the die.
The A and D registers are the vertical strips on the left, along with a very simple ALU slice.
/Mike
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #361 on: August 25, 2017, 10:31:44 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830020
Yeah, Gunnar did not exactly take it kindly that I pointed out how a 5 dollar Raspberry Pi Zero outperforms the Vampire cards on his own benchmark tests.

Ironically, I have a Zero W in the A600 along with the Vampire :laughing:

It is what it is, one nice enhancement over the 68000. You would think they'd be satisfied with that, but no...
Their going to kick ARM, PPC, and X64's ass too.

For God's sake, it an FPGA.  That limits it to begin with.

But it definitely does outperform a Motorola processor (as long as fpu or mmu functions are not required).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline sean_sk

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #362 on: August 26, 2017, 04:15:12 AM »
Quote from: kolla;830020
Yeah, Gunnar did not exactly take it kindly that I pointed out how a 5 dollar Raspberry Pi Zero outperforms the Vampire cards on his own benchmark tests.

Yeah and? Who of us would react any differently if we put in a lot of time and energy into a project only to have someone sledge our work. Sure Gunnar goes on a bit about his core, but you know what? I would to if I worked on something that I was proud of. OK so the Apollo core doesn't have an FPU or MMU. So what! It's highly unlikely that it will continue to be this way indefinitely.
 

Offline magnetic

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #363 on: August 26, 2017, 04:23:48 AM »
Quote from: sean_skroht;830046
Yeah and? Who of us would react any differently if we put in a lot of time and energy into a project only to have someone sledge our work. Sure Gunnar goes on a bit about his core, but you know what? I would to if I worked on something that I was proud of. OK so the Apollo core doesn't have an FPU or MMU. So what! It's highly unlikely that it will continue to be this way indefinitely.


So what? lol. The whole point of running a classic amiga, at least to me, is legacy classic compatibility and MMU and FPU is important for this..
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline sean_sk

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #364 on: August 26, 2017, 05:00:24 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;830047
So what? lol. The whole point of running a classic amiga, at least to me, is legacy classic compatibility and MMU and FPU is important for this..

If Commodore were still around I  can tell you now their current line up would not be beholden to your  idea of legacy compatibility. In fact, far from it. And I certainly  can't see why the Vampire project should be either.
 

Offline PPC

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #365 on: August 26, 2017, 06:28:20 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;830047
So what? lol. The whole point of running a classic amiga, at least to me, is legacy classic compatibility and MMU and FPU is important for this..


Rome wasn't build in one day either, For Apollo core to come at this point has taken years of development.
MMU you don't really need with AmigaOS and applications, the FPU is really nice to have to run more of the newer software/games (quake)/scene demos etc.
All i can say is be patient, keep in mind it's being developed continuously every day.
I think the current Vampire packs enough really cool features&speed never seen before on A500 and A600 for lots of fun.
Amiga is addictive coz it is fun to use

A1200 Elbox power tower, BPPC 040/25+603e 240 Mhz, 128 MB RAM,Bvision,Zorro IV&Zorro IV PCI busboard,X-surf,Buddha IDE
A4000 Elbox power tower,CSPPC 060/60+604e 233Mhz, 128 MB RAM,CvisonPPC, AriadneII
A600+Vampire V2,A604N+RTC,SUM USB keyboard controller,Topolino with logitech wireless keyboard&mouse
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #366 on: August 26, 2017, 06:58:55 AM »
Quote from: sean_skroht;830048
If Commodore were still around I  can tell you now their current line up would not be beholden to your  idea of legacy compatibility. In fact, far from it. And I certainly  can't see why the Vampire project should be either.
If CBM would still be around, there would also be new products around, and updates of old products to new interfaces. However, they are not, so the situation is a completely different one. The entire platform lives from its legacy, and ignoring that is not exactly helpful.
 

Offline sean_sk

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #367 on: August 26, 2017, 07:02:33 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;830053
If CBM would still be around, there would  also be new products around, and updates of old products to new  interfaces. However, they are not, so the situation is a completely  different one. The entire platform lives from its legacy, and ignoring  that is not exactly helpful.

Not necessarily saying that legacy compatibility should be ignored but holding back development and progression of the platform for the sake of compatibility purposes is not helpful either.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 07:28:53 AM by sean_skroht »
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #368 on: August 26, 2017, 07:49:10 AM »
Quote from: sean_skroht;830046
Yeah and? Who of us would react any differently if we put in a lot of time and energy into a project only to have someone sledge our work.


Most people. It is a normal event that takes place every day, and especially in the field of technology. Gunnar is also among the first to sledge other people's work, and boasting about the superiority of his own without any modesty.

Quote
Sure Gunnar goes on a bit about his core, but you know what? I would to if I worked on something that I was proud of.


You know what? Most people manage to be proud of their work without having illusions of grandeur. I am really sorry that you don't have anything that you are proud of, maybe time to step up the game somehow? :)

Quote
OK so the Apollo core doesn't have an FPU or MMU. So what! It's highly unlikely that it will continue to be this way indefinitely.


Well, it has both FPU and MMU. The fastest FPU and the most advanced MMU, of course. But neither are available, nor compatible with existing 68k software. For the MMU I can understand it. For the FPU I am less forgiving, since it is something that was "real soon now" for years already.

But - the lack of compatible FPU and MMU is not the big problem. What pisses people off is when we are told that we have no use for FPU and compatible MMU, and that we are stupid to ask for such silly things.

As for Gunnar's knowledge about the Amiga... considering how surprisingly ignorant he has been about various operating system fundamentals (which for example led him to state out of the frustration that AROS was to be future OS for Vampire), I am not so sure. It will surprise me if Vampire boards for A3000 and A4000 will ever show up, since they then will have to deal with a whole can of worms in terms of legacy problems (Zorro3). I totally expect them to say "buy standalone instead!".
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #369 on: August 26, 2017, 08:01:26 AM »
Quote from: sean_skroht;830054
Not necessarily saying that legacy compatibility should be ignored but holding back development and progression of the platform for the sake of compatibility purposes is not helpful either.

You know what's holding back development and progress? Shunning off developers. The Amiga has _very few_ developers left, and it is extremely hard to attract new developers, so when you make a new processor for Amiga, keeping developers happy should really be priority number one! Gunnar has been under the illusion that developers somehow automatically show up if only the core is super fast. But they are not, much to his frustration (I guess).
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline sean_sk

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #370 on: August 26, 2017, 08:55:08 AM »
Quote from: kolla;830055
I am really sorry that you don't have anything that you are proud of, maybe time to step up the game somehow? :)

No need to make insulting assumptions mate. No one insulted you.
 

Offline grond

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #371 on: August 26, 2017, 09:36:11 AM »
Quote from: kolla;830055
Gunnar is also among the first to sledge other people's work, and boasting about the superiority of his own without any modesty.

You know what? Most people manage to be proud of their work without having illusions of grandeur. I am really sorry that you don't have anything that you are proud of, maybe time to step up the game somehow? :)


And then there are those personalities who like to stalk other people's projects pointing out their deficiencies and expect to be thanked for it like "thank you for pointing out what an MMU and FPU may be used for; we know how to build a CPU but didn't know that!"
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #372 on: August 26, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
Quote from: grond;830062
And then there are those personalities who like to stalk other people's projects pointing out their deficiencies and expect to be thanked for it like "thank you for pointing out what an MMU and FPU may be used for; we know how to build a CPU but didn't know that!"

'Personalities' who 'stalk' others, wow, we're moving right into psychotic thought here.
I'm glad they're aware of the deficiencies of the core, and its never been my intent to be a irritant (unless those irritations help produce a pearl).

What we are, is potential consumers. And, now that the project has moved beyond a hobbyist venture, there IS an expectation of some level of professionalism on the part of the developers.
That would include addressing the market's concerns about the product, unless they intend to continue this 'Stanley Brothers' form of marketing (qualifying the buyers).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline grond

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #373 on: August 26, 2017, 02:17:12 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;830065
this 'Stanley Brothers' form of marketing (qualifying the buyers).

Are you referring to the famous Bluegrass act?
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #374 on: August 26, 2017, 03:01:39 PM »
@kolla
ok, we already really well know how gunnar is ignorant and hurting people who know better, how he should proceed with his project. and good to know, that an amiga compatible is not capable of running a linux distro, because it is very important for every true amiga user to run linux on his hardware. thanks for pointing this out constantly.