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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Troika on February 05, 2009, 04:43:38 AM

Title: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Troika on February 05, 2009, 04:43:38 AM
Dear Amigans,
Back in 2007 at TroikaNG, we changed our product development goals. The system codenamed Prometheus/Amy05 had taken us into one direction, grown and as time progressed became costly, and slightly dated with regard to the technology used.

A new project, codename Athena, was commenced. This was a lower cost system which provided a more effective price point for the current markets. The initial hardware was developed and tested towards during 2007.

We are very pleased at this point in time to present a sneak preview of the updated design of this new motherboard designed for Amiga OS4x.    The focus is a low cost entry level system designed to kick around Os4, and maybe do some developer work.  Our new series will be known as the Amy Developer.

In addition we have an active development roadmap around a higher higher performance core, with a 1 GHz processor and numerous enabling technologies.

Since this is a sneak peak we won’t reveal all the specifications only that she can compete with other motherboards running at speed of 500-700 mhz. The feature set includes USB 2.0  high speed, Gigabit Ethernet, SATA and support for DDR RAM (DIMMS).

(http://troikang.com/images/Athena.gif)

Graphics are provided by an off the shelf PCI card as this provides the most cost effective solution, to you, the end user.

Customer feedback is important to us.  We realize that in the past, our announcements have not always been universally well received. It is because of this that we have spent the best part of the last two years developing and testing our system before announcing the product.

We look forward to hearing your opinions.
Also we are running a Poll on AW and could use your input
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28102&forum=33&poll_id=744

Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: mikrucio on February 05, 2009, 05:05:18 AM
1ghz? sigh....PCI VIDEO WTF? sigh....DDR RAM sigh...
you wont get my money.. not with decade old Hardware.

i KNOW cost is a problem for small hardware developers. and this will never change... but seriously... rethink.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: FluffyMcDeath on February 05, 2009, 05:22:20 AM
Would they get your money if they provided today's technology in two years time at five times the price? Would that be better?

Go buy a PC if you want a PC.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: hooligan on February 05, 2009, 06:38:39 AM
You are doing this as Amy is, quote, slightly dated with regard to the technology used?

You out of your mind?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: keropi on February 05, 2009, 07:09:03 AM
maybe it will be cheap? and not 500-600eur
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Trev on February 05, 2009, 08:14:41 AM
We could encourage Hyperion to support OS4 on IBM's bleeding edge Power series of systems, but the cheapest models start at $5500. Not exactly cost-effective for hobbyists.

Or, we could live with the mediocre performance of the Cell/BE PPU, port OS4 to the PS3, and be done with it. PS3s aren't exactly rare or at risk of going out of production any time soon. ;-)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: utri007 on February 05, 2009, 08:16:31 AM
From amigaworld, price would be 300-350$ or 227€

Not that bad if that ever appear, I would denifinetly buy one.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: paolone on February 05, 2009, 08:57:09 AM
Quote
1ghz? sigh....PCI VIDEO WTF? sigh....DDR RAM sigh... you wont get my money.. not with decade old Hardware.


I think people too often look to hardware specs first, and then don't consider what those specs may produce as final results. A DDR1 memory driven architecture with a 1 GHz CPU won't be slower than a DDR2 with a 667 MHz CPU and, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember of other Amiga architectures using DDR2 or DDR3, apart my AROS machine (that's not 'exactly' an Amiga for most people).

The problem with ageing hardware, however, is not efficiency but ease to buy. I can't understand why Amiga hardware developer still rely on damn PCI video cards: they are difficult to spot, technologically dead and more costy than the lower-price, entry level average PCI Express card. Even AGP is dead. Maybe creating the logic for a PCI to PCI-E bridge, needed to drive communications between CPU and video would add a cost, and maybe is not feasible, but users would be really more happy if they could afford a 40 euro Radeon HD2400/3400/4500 card and place it into their Amiga systems.

Not counting how difficult is to spot a value DDR1 module of 512MB or 1GB size.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Darrin on February 05, 2009, 09:34:17 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "hard to spot" PCI graphics cards when all the major retailers (including Walmart) have bucket loads of brand new ones cluttering up the shelves.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: zylesea on February 05, 2009, 10:07:31 AM
Quote

1ghz? sigh....PCI VIDEO WTF? sigh....DDR RAM sigh...
you wont get my money.. not with decade old Hardware.

i KNOW cost is a problem for small hardware developers. and this will never change... but seriously... rethink.



I don't read there anything about a 1 GHz cpu. It is written there:
Quote

in addition we have an active development roadmap around a higher higher performance core, with a 1 GHz processor and numerous enabling technologies.


There is stated in addition. I.e. it is *not* the board they ask about now, but an *additonal* vapour ware project.

The current vapour board is specified as:
Quote

Since this is a sneak peak we won’t reveal all the specifications only that she can compete with other motherboards running at speed of 500-700 mhz. The feature set includes USB 2.0 high speed, Gigabit Ethernet, SATA and support for DDR RAM (DIMMS).


... and then the use this silly 3rd person female talk for a motherboard which should be neutral gender.

Troika: Don't come again with your vapor ware bla bla if you wanna be taken serious, but with a *real* product.
Then, but not a mintue b4, we may talk.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: ChaosLord on February 05, 2009, 11:53:08 AM
Has Troika ever released a manufactured product before?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: itix on February 05, 2009, 11:55:57 AM
So... what OS this board is capable to run?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: paolone on February 05, 2009, 12:09:17 PM
Quote
I'm not sure what you mean by "hard to spot" PCI graphics cards when all the major retailers (including Walmart) have bucket loads of brand new ones cluttering up the shelves.


Are you sure they aren't PCI-EXPRESS ones?

The day you'll plug a PCI EXPRESS card in a PCI slot and you'll succeed running it, please call me and tell me how you did. Until that, it's impossible, and PCI cards (not the easy-to-spot-since-there-are-loads-of-them PCI Express ones) are now rare, obsolete and pricey.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: EvilGuy on February 05, 2009, 12:28:50 PM
I had to re-read the post because I thought I was reading something out of 2001.

DDR RAM is horrendously expensive round these parts and the only time I've seen PCI video cards in the last five years has been on EBay.

Good luck to Troika, but spending good $$$ on something based around ten-year old technology (and its not a "real" Amiga!) is foolhardy.

They'd be better off picking some tech which is expensive today and working on making that function properly so that in two years+ time when they finally have a prototype then the rest of us could afford the hardware..
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Darrin on February 05, 2009, 01:06:10 PM
Quote
Are you sure they aren't PCI-EXPRESS ones?

The day you'll plug a PCI EXPRESS card in a PCI slot and you'll succeed running it, please call me and tell me how you did. Until that, it's impossible, and PCI cards (not the easy-to-spot-since-there-are-loads-of-them PCI Express ones) are now rare, obsolete and pricey.


Absolutely.  I do know the difference.

Is there a chance that what you think are PCI-E cards are actually PCI cards?  You'll have a hell of a time trying to fit a PCI card into your PCI-E slot.  If you do manage it then give me a call and tell me how you did it otherwise it's impossible you know.  

PCI cards are still everywhere here and are extremely cheap, unlike the more expensive PCI-E cards.  Places like Walmart love them because almost everyone has a spare PCI slot in their PC and most of their customers probably don't know the difference between PCI, AGA and PCI-Express (although they do sell all of them online).
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: weirdami on February 05, 2009, 01:07:03 PM
Quote
and then the use this silly 3rd person female talk for a motherboard which should be neutral gender.


grammar police irony
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: arnljot on February 05, 2009, 01:08:00 PM
Cool, now make sure that you get OS4.1 to it, and the target price.

Also, make sure that it hits the market soooon!

And give us something more than a schematics picture, what about a prototype pic?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: hooligan on February 05, 2009, 02:20:51 PM
Quote
And give us something more than a schematics picture, what about a prototype pic?


One made on Paint suffice? They already have the know-how  :-D
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: jorkany on February 05, 2009, 02:35:22 PM
Laughable
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: A1260 on February 05, 2009, 04:30:53 PM
the troika strikes again with its vaporware. at least try vaporware us some 2ghz motherboards at 200 euro this time.   :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: ferrellsl on February 05, 2009, 05:34:26 PM
Troika has never released anything other than fake pictures for fake developer boards.  This is just more of the same and the specs they're quoting for this "new" board are the same ones they mentioned a few years back.  Just change the dates and they're talking the same old crap.  I wish the site admins would ban them from posting their crap here.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Andeda on February 05, 2009, 06:33:41 PM
We need a little bit more than this picture to believe you this time, but if this is true and you really can come up with this board and get os4.1 ported to it, well then i could be interested
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Methuselas on February 05, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
There's a card game I used to play in Texas. I feel like I'm playing it now.

I call Bullsh!t.  8-)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Tomas on February 05, 2009, 08:35:52 PM
Why are everyone complaining? This is $300-350 is much cheaper than the Sam board, which i thought would be a good thing for the Amiga community?

Cheaper hardware running OS4.x is always a good thing in my opinion.
I still have high doubts about it ever being released considering their previous broken promises though.
I really think they should have waited until they had something real to show though. Even a working prototype running linux would help.

If this was genesi i am sure everyone would be jumping with joy. :-P
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: hooligan on February 05, 2009, 08:40:35 PM
Quote
Why are everyone complaining? This is $300-350 is much cheaper than the Sam board, which i thought would be a good thing for the Amiga community?


Yes, but nothing priced at $300-500 is a lot, IMO.

Quote
If this was genesi i am sure everyone would be jumping with joy.


You bet your ass we would. They have a trackrecord of actually delivering qualitystuff.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Tomas on February 05, 2009, 09:18:00 PM
@hooligan
I was talking about the people who complain about the specifications and price. Is not like they ask you to pay now. :-P
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: billt on February 05, 2009, 09:46:40 PM
Quote
Are you sure they aren't PCI-EXPRESS ones?


walmart.com doe shave some typos in their item headlines, but the DO have old-school PCI graphics cards. You can get them elsewhere as well.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5700425
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4765188
(and that Radeon 9250 above is the Radeon that is most supported for OS4.1 compositing!)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0500000%23%230%23%2311a~~cabcat0507000%23%230%23%233b~~cabcat0507001%23%230%23%231z~~cabcat0507002%23%230%23%231p~~nf156%7C%7C504349&list=y&nrp=15&sc=abComputerSP&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&usc=abcat0500000
(OK, they're NVidia, we can't use 'em, but they're PCI)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201069609642&name=PCI
Newegg currently has 47!! PCI graphics cards

Amazon's PCI category also lists PCI-Expres cards, but they have a variety. I won't list the antique ATI Rage cards there, but here's some Radeons, including an HD2400!
http://www.amazon.com/HIS-9250-64-bit-Graphics-Card/dp/B000PCD8ZW/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1233870070&sr=1-22
http://www.amazon.com/HIS-H925H256RPN-R-Radeon-256MB-128bit/dp/B000X9FBVG/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1233870110&sr=1-29
http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-2400PCI256-2400PRO-GDDR2-Video/dp/B0015RFFIY/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1233870110&sr=1-33
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Data-Products-S60PCI64-Graphics/dp/B00065XSPS/ref=sr_1_44?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1233870110&sr=1-44
http://www.amazon.com/HIS-Radeon-7000-64MB-Video/dp/B000075ANY/ref=sr_1_74?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1233870180&sr=1-74

There are still lots of PCI graphics cards out there.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: A1260 on February 05, 2009, 09:47:39 PM
Quote
Poster: ChaosLord  Posted: 2009/2/5 5:53:08

Has Troika ever released a manufactured product before?



if i remember correct hyperion denied troika a licence for aos4.1......

and that is understanable, a unseriouse bs vapor company like troika will never get any licence.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: hooligan on February 05, 2009, 10:02:42 PM
@Tomas

Still, you can't deny that there is a .. how to put it kindly, a bit lack of confidence in their doings :)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Troika on February 05, 2009, 10:38:32 PM
Quote
From amigaworld, price would be 300-350$ or 227€


Yes we could user your input into the poll we are running a Poll on AW.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Piru on February 05, 2009, 10:43:58 PM
http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/troikasucks.html
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Methuselas on February 05, 2009, 10:47:07 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


That's *SOOOOO* awesome, Piru!


I knew I smelled bullsh!t!

:roflmao:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Troika on February 05, 2009, 10:47:38 PM
Quote
Cheaper hardware running OS4.x is always a good thing in my opinion.
:eureka:

Quote
I still have high doubts about it ever being released considering their previous broken promises though.


Our Athena project is based on a very reliable reference design, and has been a working system running Linux  from day one. It currently runs a variant of Debian Linux.

Hope this pic of one of our Software development and testing systems (taken today) helps?

(http://troikang.com/images/AthenaBBC.JPG)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Damion on February 05, 2009, 10:56:49 PM
Fool me once... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A) :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: A1260 on February 05, 2009, 11:04:13 PM
Fool Me Once, Shame On You, Fool Me Twice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUZggUv5o3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3hDBOH8cII

 :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Plaz on February 05, 2009, 11:23:05 PM
Quote
Hope this pic of one of our Software development and testing systems (taken today) helps?


Nope, sorry. I've got several systems sitting around that look better than that and they still won't run OS4. Why should your announment or photo change our minds? Your going to need a more serious effort especially given your past disappointments.

Plaz
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Piru on February 05, 2009, 11:28:17 PM
Your system?

It sure looks more like the said Freescale reference board.

At least the board on that pic has some extra components on it (two extra NIC connectors, 4 extra PG234002, and the local bus expansion connector.
 
(http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/pics/AthenaBBC_yeah_right.jpg)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Troika on February 05, 2009, 11:48:48 PM
Quote
Your system?

Yes,
 This is one of our Software development and testing systems used in our development program.  You have something against using reference designs, or reference boards?



 :huh:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Piru on February 05, 2009, 11:56:07 PM
Quote
You have something against using reference designs, or reference boards?

Only when you're trying to present them as your own design:
"new motherboard designed for Amiga OS4x".

Since when did Freescale design motherboards for OS4?

But sure if your business will be reselling rebranded Freescale reference boards, as long as you indicate them as such I have no problem.

Here are the system specifications for anyone interested: MPC8349E-mITX Office-in-a-Box Reference Platform (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=RDMPC8349EOIB&nodeId=0MFB28tQ4M)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: magnetic on February 06, 2009, 01:08:31 AM
PIRU FTW!
 :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: TheMagicM on February 06, 2009, 02:47:47 AM
pwnage by Piru.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I'm tellin ya...  The Amiga Community isnt the one of old.. there's alot of smart folks that can weed through the B.S. (like this "announcement").
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: jorkany on February 06, 2009, 03:10:32 AM
Quote

Hope this pic of one of our Software development and testing systems (taken today) helps?

Yes, the picture of the unmodified Freescale board shown in your picture helps prove how full of crap Troika is. But I commend you on your steel sac for coming back and trying to hoax the OS4 community yet again, I keep chuckling as I watch. Please continue.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: redfox on February 06, 2009, 03:56:23 AM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: yakumo9275 on February 06, 2009, 04:33:53 AM
Guess someone found a use for all the defective cherrypal boards that were returned that genesi told us were all defective.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Darrin on February 06, 2009, 09:09:17 AM
Quote
Hope this pic of one of our Software development and testing systems (taken today) helps?


Why are you apparently testing it on the floor on a nylon carpet?  I recommend some sort of workbench - it will save you some back pain.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: mschulz on February 06, 2009, 09:56:16 AM
@Piru

Damn, you were faster :)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4607/freescale2ey7.jpg)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/993/freescalekv7.jpg)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Methuselas on February 06, 2009, 06:17:56 PM
EPIC FAIL!  :lol:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: x303 on February 06, 2009, 06:48:30 PM
Bring 'em on...

 :insane:
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Erol on February 06, 2009, 10:19:03 PM
@Troika

With that case i wouldn't buy it!
If you wanted to make low cost boards why don't you make a "new" ppc card for existing amiga's surely that would cut the cost down, you have a variety of older ppc expansion cards to steal ideas from.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: yssing on February 07, 2009, 01:59:06 PM
Come on you guys.. Give them a break. If this actaully does sell with AOS it would be great, no matter what specs th HW might have.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: warpdesign on February 07, 2009, 04:11:21 PM
If you've been testing it for two years now why do you only show some DPaint picture ? And what feedback to you want users to give you about a picture ? If you cannot develop your own board there's no problem about that. After all it seems it isn't that easy to do so. But just admit it and stop trying to fool people...
Is it that hard to be honnest in this community ?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: dammy on February 07, 2009, 05:36:08 PM
Quote
Come on you guys.. Give them a break. If this actaully does sell with AOS it would be great, no matter what specs th HW might have.


Surely, you still don't believe this guy?   It all adds up to a giant farce.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: yssing on February 07, 2009, 06:02:33 PM
No not really, but I still "hope" that Troika does whip up some sort of surprise
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: A1260 on February 08, 2009, 06:28:11 PM
a surprise from the schizophrenia man and his one man company called troika?? i think not...
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: jorkany on February 09, 2009, 06:34:45 PM
Hey Troika, how do you explain this (post by Rob on AWN)? (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28102&forum=33&start=200&viewmode=flat&order=0#476971)

In particular this bit:
"The MC8439E only has 2 PCI interfaces, as stated above one is used for the SATA controller and the other for the PCI slot. Unless Troika add a PCI bridge there'll be no possibility for adding audio to this board, unless you don't mind going without a video card."
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: Floid on February 09, 2009, 11:14:09 PM
Heh, nice catch, though I think this community's experience has demonstrated that, in PPC-land, even manufacturer reference designs can still end up needing significant rework [or after-the-fact support]...

FWIW, looks like the Freescale board runs $368.52 (http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=14M6286&CMP=AFC-GB100000001) at the one source obviously stocking it.

Does OS4 hardware still need to be Dongle Approved, or has that pretty much been blown out of the water now?
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: ajlwalker on February 09, 2009, 11:36:30 PM
@jorkany

Maybe you should  have read on. (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28102&forum=33&start=240&viewmode=flat&order=0#477216)
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: jorkany on February 10, 2009, 01:24:08 AM
I did read on. Same old same old - still no photos of the modified board.

Just because the BS is coming straight from the horse's mouth doesn't make it any less BS.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: dammy on February 10, 2009, 10:05:26 AM
Quote
I did read on. Same old same old - still no photos of the modified board.  Just because the BS is coming straight from the horse's mouth doesn't make it any less BS.


I think it also shows just how unrealistic it is to expect anything worth while will be created by Troika.  Management capable of making things happen, and happen on time is clearly missing as is the in house skills, funding, and experience.  It may have been a noble effort, but clearly doomed to fail from the start.

Dammy
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: ajlwalker on February 10, 2009, 12:01:06 PM
@jorkany

You miss my point.

If you want to cast doubt on this, you would have been better challenging the answer, rather than the what you showed.
Title: Re: Amy Developer Motherboard.
Post by: jorkany on June 18, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
So how's this coming along? I note the troikang.com website has been updated, can we expect Amy '05 to be out before the numerical portion of it's name "coincidentally" matches the year again?