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Author Topic: Alan Redhouse revealed the impressive future of AmigaOne!!!!! (from AmiGBG 2003)  (Read 13140 times)

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Offline olegil

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Re: Alan Redhouse revealed the impressive future of AmigaOne!!!!! (from AmiGBG 2003)
« Reply #74 from previous page: April 01, 2003, 04:07:30 PM »
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For the price dongles they could have sent out those t-shirts.


Quite correct.

However, the "dongle" is also called "firmware" so I don't see how anyone could have made any profit from sending out boards without that component. Please tell me?
 

Offline olegil

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BUT THE POINT OF THE ####ING DONGLE ISN'T TO ENSURE THAT IT DOESN'T RUN ON THE PEGASOS.

It is to ensure that you (as in Joe Average, not Hooligan_DCS) don't go out and buy a Teron CX/PX and install a pirated copy of AOS4 on that. AOS4 for AmigaOne is sold only in bundles with the hardware, except possibly in bundles with dongles (if there is a market for that).

AOS4 WILL NOT RUN ON A PEGASOS WITHOUT MODIFICATION, so that's not much of a concern (as you correctly identified).
 

Offline Darth_X

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 I seriously DO NOT see the problem with this for someone who is NOT contemplating piracy.

Also, how are Genesi any better? Where's the A1 version of MorphOS? Since the Pegasos doesn't have a dongle I should be able to freely download MOS for my AmigaOne, no?



The business model for a Pegasos and MorphOS appears to be based around sales of Pegasos hardware.. the operating system (&  licensed apps) is included in the price of the Pegasos motherboard.

AmigaOS4 is an added cost on top of the price of the AmigaONE motherboard.

As for MorphOS for A1 boards, that's interesting.


olegil, are you a developer?

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However, the "dongle" is also called "firmware" so I don't see how anyone could have made any profit from sending out boards without that component. Please tell me?


The A1 could have used the standard Open Firmware instead of making a custom one? :-D
 

Offline Seehund

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Re: Alan Redhouse said something again
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2003, 06:26:30 PM »
Hip-shot post in semi-coherent order follows.


@Helgis75

Ask Wayne for a "Helgis ejaculates over some Teron announcement" forum category (and I'll ask for a "Seehund whines over the usual again" category) ;)



@olegil
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The firmware (U-Boot) will use serial port for stdin/stdout if you set the environment variables stdin/stdout to serial OR you remove the keyboard/vga card (autodetects...). Thus, you don't need a VGA card or a keyboard for a render-farm.


Imagine A Beowulf Cluster Of Those! :)

Seriously, you still need at least an OS to run on each box, and there's an onboard NIC, so what would the advantage be over just networking it all "as usual" (not that U-Boot is unique in allowing I/O redirection to other interfaces)? Nobody's ever needed graphics/keyboards at each box for such clustering anyway.



@Odin
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No it's not! The OS these boards were built for still isn't here :-p.


Didn't Linus make his first public release 12 years ago? :) OK, OK, the hardware isn't built for any particular OS, but I couldn't resist... ;)



@Hooligan_DCS
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How blind are people not to see that A1 mobo is nothing special and OS4 will be the driving force. I couldn't care less if it ran on intel and on parts purchable from store next door.


Hear hear!



@vortexau
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During my 30 years of motorcycling, I NEVER bought a really-fast chain-driven machine!


Uh, yeah, but they stopped making good/beautiful cars and motorcycles around 1970, so that's understandable. :)
Comparing that to computers, and using it to excuse poor performance and high cost of supposedly "new" computer hardware is outright ridiculous. For "vintage computing" we've already got e.g. Amigas.

(If someone starts comparing prices and specs of their old Amigas with reasonably modern hardware like a Teron board, then it's time to bring out the LART damnit! Why not go all the way and compare the Terons with the ENIAC? Honestly, some people shouldn't be allowed to buy computers. ;) )

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AOS on x86 would NOT attract applications, any more than BeOS did!


Compared to post-Commodore AmigaOS, BeOS was a veritable honeypot! The demise of BeOS begun before it went x86, but then it was too late it seems. But BeOS lives on.

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Linux runs on PLENTY of x86 boxes - WHERE are ALL THOSE WONDERFUL Linux Games?

Do you see a pattern here? Other OS' run on x86 - Developers code for Windows!


Bad reasoning/example IMO. The few commercial (closed source) Linux games that actually are out there are for... *drumroll*: Linux/x86.

If you make an end-user, "general purpose", "home computing" OS, then you compete with Windows (and other OSes in that broadly defined category) and its apps. No matter what CPU architecture.

Porting apps to another OS is one thing, porting apps to another OS plus another architecture is another. Which do you think is easier? Which do you you think is potentially more commercially interesting, given the vast x86 user/hardware base?

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WHY is MAC OS not on X86? Same reason! Move on!


Because Apple make a living on selling their Macs (not "MACs" BTW, pet peeve of mine). They supposedly have a parallel x86 branch of MacOS, but it'd probably only run on x86 computers built by Apple if it's commercially released.

Anyway, the dice has been rolled for AmigaOS: it became PPC. I'm not all that religious about a specific configuration of silicon logic gates to get involved in that silly x86 vs PPC war all over again. Though I'm not all that extatic over having the PPC path even further narrowed only based on dealerships, trademarks and hardware market control, as you all might have noticed. ;)


@Hammer:
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You missed the main purpose of a dongle.

What is the main purpose of a dongle (e.g. Cubase SX)?
Answer: Run a single authorised copy at a given session.


Yeah, normally. But what is the main purpose of dongled motherboard firmware together with compulsory OS/HW bundling and hardware dealer licensing?
Answer: To invent a restricted "Amiga hardware market" out of a subset of an ordinary third party hardware market.

Dongling does not prevent piracy. Personally I don't object to dongling as a concept, it's the implementation in this specific case that is just sick and counterproductive.

To paraphrase South Park / Slashdot:

1. Try to "prevent piracy" by not selling the software.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

This method does not protect the software any better or worse than your Cubase example. It only protects the marketshare of a distributor of third party hardware, which should be irrelevant to AmigaOS.

But hey, there's always the absolutely humongous and incredibly lucrative market of people who wet themselves as soon as they see the "AmigaOne" trademark. THAT will surely ensure a prosperous future for AmigaOS! :)



@olegil:
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I saw someone making criticism about external Q&A and excuses and stuff. The big thing about external Q&A isn't that it's external, it's that it is in the same country as the production plant.


What I find funny is that Eyetech originally said that they would QA test the Terons themselves. :D
Unpack Terons... Peel off QA stickers... Look for the "On" button... Shake boards to hear if anything rattles... Slap on "AmigaOne by Eyetech" and new QA stickers... Pack "AmigaOnes"... Ship to dealers or send back to Taiwan...

Let's hope that this external company has at least the impressive engineering expertise and advanced testing equipment that Eyetech apparently must have, and that they too have passed the strict Amiga, Inc. certifications. :D

What a bloody sad and overcomplicated circus all this has been made to be.
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline Seehund

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Quote

olegil wrote:

However, the "dongle" is also called "firmware" ...


Nope. Terons sold normally will, according to Hyperion, have the same firmware as the ones sold to AmigaOS users. The "dongle" has no technically functional or operational purpose, regardless of whether it happens to be stored in the same physical *PROM chip that also holds the firmware. Think of it as an embedded serial number. A dongle, short and simple.
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline Helgis75Topic starter

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Just recently got another mail from Datakompaniet after asking them if i am one of the lucky 7 to get one of the first boards, an A1G4XE. They said YES, because i already ordered for an A1XE just before Christmas 2002, and rechanged the order to the top-of-the-line AmigaOne G4-XE early January 2003, so yes, i am one of the 7!!!!! :-)  :-)  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
Helgis - AMIGA DEFINITELY makes it all possible!!!
 

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Helgis,

You have no idea how much I hope that you do get one of these A1 boards.  Whatever the reason, whatever the cost, and whether it's worth a damn or not, you should be the first to get one.

Here's hoping that you do.

RLFrost
 

Offline olegil

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Quote

Darth_X wrote:
Quote

 I seriously DO NOT see the problem with this for someone who is NOT contemplating piracy.

Also, how are Genesi any better? Where's the A1 version of MorphOS? Since the Pegasos doesn't have a dongle I should be able to freely download MOS for my AmigaOne, no?



The business model for a Pegasos and MorphOS appears to be based around sales of Pegasos hardware.. the operating system (&  licensed apps) is included in the price of the Pegasos motherboard.

AmigaOS4 is an added cost on top of the price of the AmigaONE motherboard.

As for MorphOS for A1 boards, that's interesting.


olegil, are you a developer?



Well, I'm a Linux developer. Some of the other Linux developers are currently busy writing OS4 drivers, but I have devoted myself to making 2.5.65 run on the AmigaOne instead. At the moment I am actually more interested in Linux than OS4. But only because I now have both an A500 and an A1200 in working condition again. For the first time since ages :-)

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Quote
However, the "dongle" is also called "firmware" so I don't see how anyone could have made any profit from sending out boards without that component. Please tell me?


The A1 could have used the standard Open Firmware instead of making a custom one? :-D


There would still have been the need to include the frelling "dongle" chip, now wouldn't it? And the frelling Open Firmware didn't excactly WORK either.
 

Offline olegil

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Quote

Seehund wrote:
Quote

olegil wrote:

However, the "dongle" is also called "firmware" ...


Nope. Terons sold normally will, according to Hyperion, have the same firmware as the ones sold to AmigaOS users. The "dongle" has no technically functional or operational purpose, regardless of whether it happens to be stored in the same physical *PROM chip that also holds the firmware. Think of it as an embedded serial number. A dongle, short and simple.


Oh, so now a serial number suddenly costs MONEY to implement?

I was answering Hoolingan_DCS, PLEASE try to include some CONTEXT next time.

If there's supposed to be ANY saving of money from NOT including the dongle, it would HAVE to be by shipping without the chip. Seriously.
 

Offline Hooligan_DCS

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The good old saying "Time is money" is more to the point than never before.
 

Offline Paul_Gadd

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Just wait to see if you get the boards instead of believing every little thing these Amiga companies say.
 

Offline dammy

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by Hattig on 2003/3/31 14:56:54

Quote:
Hate to break it to you, but Apple has maintained OSX on x86 for years. Gee, wonder why Apple is spending R&D cash on maintaining a x86 port?


To ensure a clean code base, and nothing more. It only has drivers for one 4 year old Intel chipset, 440BX.

Apple will never move to any variant of x86, or x86-64.


I wouldn't bet the farm on that statement.  Apple knows it's life blood is tied to the CPU, and the once mighty AIM alliance is now quiet dead.  That means Apple has to depend on hand outs from IBM.   If IBM decides it's not worth developing any futher/faster the 970, Apple is in dead in the water.  

Which would you rather steer Apple towards?  IBM's side project (this is a joke compared to their total revenue stream) or AMD products when AMD stock is at a low point and Apple's coffers are pretty well filled?  IMO, I would rather go the latter, and have the CPU producer by the balls.  No, this would not mean OSX would run on generic hardware, it still could easily be tied into Apple chipsets.

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Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Hammer

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Again, what I was trying to tell is that they are killing a fly with a shotgun, as in taking too big cautions for such little issue as pirated OS4 on something else than AmigaOne.

Such statement is subject to subjective point of view.  

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Let's face it, if someone is David Copperfield-enough to make OS4 work on Pegasos, the same indivual is talented enough to bypass that dongle protection.

Let's face it, 'cracking' doesn’t stop software companies to include such protection. IF you don’t like the final cost then don’t buy the product.

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The excuse of pirates making it too hard to do business is gone. The lack of userbase is the real reason.

That’s one leap of logic in regards to "lack of userbase" and issue of software protection.
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Offline Hammer

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when AMD stock is at a low point and Apple's coffers are pretty well filled? IMO

The number of shares will be another factor btw...
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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rlfrost wrote:
Helgis,

You have no idea how much I hope that you do get one of these A1 boards.  Whatever the reason, whatever the cost, and whether it's worth a damn or not, you should be the first to get one.

Here's hoping that you do.

RLFrost


I second to that. If there is any fairness in this world, then Helgis would get the very first A1 from the production run. And I mean that! :-)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline Dan

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Morphos: Well it´s not really AmigaOS just emulation around a microkernel just as Amithlon/Umilator

And just as AmigaOS4. As for PPC-native software, it'll be up to developers if they want to make versions for both MorphOS and AmigaOS4. Quite a few seem to be interested in both.

No, AmigaOS4 is built from the original source code but cleaned up and improved beyond recognition!  :-D
Apple did it right the first time, bring back the Newton!