MorphOS ahead of AROS?

[Iggy]

I was a little bit offended when someone asked how we could even mention MorphOS and AROS in the same sentence. Hence I wanted to know if the difference is really that big.

Actually, they're not (except that Gallium may provide an advantage to AROS).
A few parts of MorphOS actually borrow from early AROS code.
And they are both re-implenentations of the 3.1 API.
In fact, they're quite similar.
I'd never want to discourage anyone from either camp from exploring the other environment.
As each runs on different hardware, they don't even directly compete.

[deadwood]

About 3D in AROS...

[Terminills]

About 3D in AROS...

oooo purdy.

what were we talking about again?

[Iggy]

About 3D in AROS...

That is stunning!
What do you think legacy guys?
You can't match that with a "real" Amiga (unless you bought it from Barry Altman).

[Karlos]

The Linux hosted version was useful back when the product was in its earlier revisions, but native is the fastest way to run it.

When I dabble, I tend to run the hosted version regardless. It's already so stupidly fast that native doesn't add a lot, but on a quad core machine, detracts. I can get on with a lot of other stuff on the linux side in conjunction.

[HenryCase]

I was a little bit offended when someone asked how we could even mention MorphOS and AROS in the same sentence. Hence I wanted to know if the difference is really that big.

Whilst I don't know for sure who said that, I think it's safe to say such a viewpoint places this individual in the minority. I've found most people in the Amiga community are generally supportive of AROS, even if they may prefer another operating system. Can we view the commenter as the troll they are and move on now?

[Mazze]

Can we view the commenter as the troll they are and move on now?

No we can't because we want to know the truth.

[takemehomegrandma]

@HenryCase

I was a little bit offended when someone asked how we could even mention MorphOS and AROS in the same sentence. Hence I wanted to know if the difference is really that big.

Whilst I don't know for sure who said that, I think it's safe to say such a viewpoint places this individual in the minority. I've found most people in the Amiga community are generally supportive of AROS, even if they may prefer another operating system. Can we view the commenter as the troll they are and move on now?

I'm afraid Mazze is "bending the truth" a bit in his claims above. This is what happened: AmigaNG said in another thread: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", to which I replied "It would be interesting to hear how you can even compare MorphOS [or indeed OS4] to AROS like they would be playing in the same league? ... you are solely focusing on x86 hardware *for the sake of it*, totally neglecting the differences in features of the two OS's, which probably is the most important variable of them all for the user experience and *usability* at all. "An old PC" is hardly any cheaper than an old PowerMac, and if it's the user experience you want (i.e. really being able to *use* it as an Amiga), then MorphOS is the one NG solution that has the most to offer..."

All this is absolutely true, which most of us already knew, and which this thread clearly has shown to those who didn't. One of the things that most OS4 and MorphOS users appreciates the most, is probably the mix of evolution *combined* with the best way of obtaining Amiga backwards compatibility, and by that I mean these two OS's capability of running Amiga 68k programs in the completely seemless way they do, that they treat 68k binaries exactly the same as PPC ones, there simply is no difference! All programs run in the same memory space, by the same scheduler, sharing the same resources, the same data, signaling, arexx, etc. It's one and the same! While in AROS, 68k compatibility has for decades been totally under prioritized, and relies completely on UAE to emulate a "separate" Amiga on top of AROS, like two separate (albeit somewhat connected) computers in one.

This is *very far* from MorphOS and OS4 of today. I think many MorphOS and OS4 users would say that this fact alone (the different way it treats Amiga applications) makes AROS run in a completely different league than MorphOS and OS4. Not necessary a worse league, but *clearly* different. And if you go on in your comparisons about MorphOS usability and user experience (since the root of this thread is AmigaNG's "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it" comment), you will find *many* things that several people in this thread has put forward, that gives MorphOS a far better (the best really!) "AmigaNG type of experience". Only the fact that someone would *recommend* (which AmigaNG did) a system that uses a "Wanderer/Zune" combo that is of sub Amiga OS 3.1 level in favor of MorphOS current "Ambient/MUI4" combo is absolutely ridiculous, and only shows ignorance and cluelessness!

Nobody ever said that AROS couldn't be fun for those into it (which traditionally mostly is the people developing it), nobody was kicking on it, AROS is a good thing, it has *some* advantages (being free, running on x86), it has contributed some to MorphOS evolution etc, but it clearly *does* play in a completely different league than MorphOS (and OS4 for that matter) when it comes to giving the user an "AmigaNG type of experience".

[takemehomegrandma]

@people who more or less deliberately misread Iggy's comment about "version numbers" :rolleyes:

In the context it was put, wasn't it kind of obvious that he was talking about level of maturity, and *not* explicitly version numbers per se? Compared to MorphOS (and OS4 for that matter), AROS as a whole *is* immature, who are you trying to fool here? There is not without reason you *won't* see this kind of warnings on MorphOS's download page:

Warning

AROS is alpha quality software. This means that it is currently mostly fun to play with and cool to develop for. If you came here because you thought AROS was a finished, complete and fully usable operating system, you will most likely be disappointed. AROS isn't there yet, but we're slowly moving in the right direction.

...and...

Note

Although AROS can be installed to a hard drive, please be aware that the installer is known to contain bugs. It should not remove or wipe any partitions if not asked to do so, but this cannot be guaranteed. So please note that generally you should not install AROS on a working machine whose HD contains valuable data, as there is a real possibility of data loss. We take no responsibility for any data loss that occurs. Any bug reports on the installation process will however be appreciated.

Again, not at all kicking on AROS, not trying to belittle the efforts of its developers etc, I'm sure it's very fun for those into it, but please don't pretend it's something it clearly isnt...

[OlafS3]

One last sentence from me

when you want cooperation and that people are interested to look at your OS (and even buy it) it is not helpful to bash them (68k, Aros, AOS). But the MorphOS community seems to be happy that they tell each other how great they are. That the community is stagnating (at best) seems noone to disturb. The outsiders just do not understand how great it is... So obviously there is no common ground for cooperation between both camps, I personally regret that but it is not possible... then stay the best (how you think) and be happy with your Macs

[takemehomegrandma]

Are you really so out of touch that you don't know that by far the most popular variant of AROS is the one that runs natively, on the silicon, without any trace of Linux?

It was a reply to Digimans "When MOS is running on every Mac desktop and laptop from G3 to G5 and Intel x86 Macs let me know :roflmao:" comment, mocking MorphOS for not running on all Mac's and Laptops. Clearly AROS doesn't run natively on *all* x86 desktops and laptops either. I have hardware it won't support, for example. But hosted or in a virtual machine, yes it will, and the same could be achieved with MorphOS (actually, I think it already is/will be, purely for development purposes while developing stuff like 64-bit support, etc).

When it comes to *silicon*, I think there is much truth in Cammy's post here on amiga.org that the Aros/Platforms/x86 support page links to: "You are better off if you build a PC out of supported components to begin with rather than hoping it will work on an existing PC because it usually ends in disappointment. There are just too many different chipsets for the two or three occasional/casual Aros developers to handle. It doesn't help that the three major distributions are handled nearly entirely by a single person each, usually only with their own PC and a virtual PC setup to test it on." and this one the support page itself: "It is very hard to recommend a completely supported motherboard because as soon as newer motherboards arrive so their features change subtly, often introducing non-supported parts like ethernet and audio. It is a moving target."

Silicon needs drivers, a fact that is equally true for AROS as it is for MorphOS, so mocking MorphOS for not natively supporting *every* PPC Mac out there is kind of a moot point, don't you agree? Like throwing stones in a glass house, yes?

[takemehomegrandma]

when you want cooperation and that people are interested to look at your OS (and even buy it) it is not helpful to bash them (68k, Aros, AOS).

Where is the bashing?

:confused:

[HenryCase]

@takemehomegrandma
I had a feeling that the comments that sparked this thread would've been from you, but chose not to name you. Let's see your explanation...

I'm afraid Mazze is "bending the truth" a bit in his claims above. This is what happened: AmigaNG said in another thread: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", to which I replied "It would be interesting to hear how you can even compare MorphOS [or indeed OS4] to AROS like they would be playing in the same league? ... you are solely focusing on x86 hardware *for the sake of it*, totally neglecting the differences in features of the two OS's, which probably is the most important variable of them all for the user experience and *usability* at all..."

Sounds to me that Mazze's comments are spot on. Let me break it down even further. AmigaNG basically said 'if you're interested, here's how to get a "NG Amiga"-like experience for the cheapest price'. There is no denying that AROS is cheaper than OS4 or MorphOS, so basically what you end up doing is questioning whether AROS should even be classed as a NG Amiga system.

What I've found following the evolution of AROS is that the complaints levelled against it have shifted as its improved. I see now that the complaint du jour is about seamless running of 68k software. Whilst it's not the first time I've heard this complaint, you seem more willing to use this as the key point that separates AROS from OS4/MorphOS. So is what you're saying that once AROS has seamless 68k software usage, like say Amithlon, it can be seen as NG, but not before?

As for your other comments about AROS, I'm glad you're generally supportive of the project. You know, you'd be a much more effective advocate for MorphOS if you could speak to others more respectfully. Food for thought.

[Digiman]

Except for the fact that we've got the best browser, OS4 has a decent word processor (Cinnamon Writer), and AROS?
Oh yeah, it crashes.

And as I just upgraded to a dual 1.42 GHz G4 with a Radeon 9800XT video card, I don't have the most up to date system, but its quite functional.

A "toy" would be something that only looks like what it is, so...

This thread will always be subjective hence the IMO. As long as you're happy it's cool.

AFAIC neither AROS/MOS/OS4 can replace my Win XP boxes personally and all 3 need a software emulator to run Dpaint 3 or 5 IIRC so personally it's no different. Why would I stop using WinUAE,Chrome browser or Zoom player (media player) for MOS alternatives after purchasing their draconian restrictions of a licensed OS? Aros is free AND not locked to one computer unlike MOS (which is why for me it's not worth the money) but you can't bitch about FREE Aros in comparison. The whole topic is like saying my 1.2L Yugo is better than your 950cc Yugo as far as MOS vs AROS. Amiga was the Ferrari of the 80s computer world! And whilst I have no affection for Win or OSX systems they are my only sane choices for running my business or home cinema setup.

This post will make me unpopular for sure. :lol:

[takemehomegrandma]

@takemehomegrandma
I had a feeling that the comments that sparked this thread would've been from you, but chose not to name you.

No, it didn't, don't try to make it look like I have created some Anti-AROS thread here, because that's not true!

Sounds to me that Mazze's comments are spot on.

Mazze started this thread by asking a question, which has now been answered in many ways, by many people during this thread.

Let me break it down even further. AmigaNG basically said 'if you're interested, here's how to get a "NG Amiga"-like experience for the cheapest price'.

Let's *not* "break it down"/re-interpret what he said, he said *exactly*: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", and nothing else!

He advised *against* getting a PowerMac, despite them costing the same as an "old PC", and he also recommended AROS as "the NG Amiga experience". All of this is *fine* of course, he is entitled to his opinion, but so am I! So I merely pointed out that the "NG experience" doesn't come from x86/PPC, but from the OS, and that AROS plays in a different league when it comes to this, no matter that it can run on x86. This is what made Mazze run off like a hurt little primadonna and start this thread asking how MorphOS is better, a lot of people answered, and now he (and OlafS3, Manu, etc) is like hurt little children, which is just hilarious. If you don't want to know, don't ask the questions!

There is no denying that AROS is cheaper than OS4 or MorphOS

The OS in itself, yes, but not necessarily by a great deal if looking at total system cost. It's not that it's expensive to get a MorphOS system up and running.

But that's not even the point - the point is that the level of "NG Experience" doesn't come from the price either, it comes from the OS.

so basically what you end up doing is questioning whether AROS should even be classed as a NG Amiga system.

WTF?! Absolutely *not*, what is this?! Of course it is a NG Amiga system, it was the first of its kind, and I have *never* kicked at it in any way!

But there are many differences between AROS and MorphOS, and in the end MorphOS is the one giving the better "NG Experience" (actually it offers *the best* of all three NG Options).

What I've found following the evolution of AROS is that the complaints levelled against it have shifted as its improved. I see now that the complaint du jour is about seamless running of 68k software.

That has *always* been on the topic, it was lifted forward by Amiga NG Enthusiasts to the AROS devs more than a decade ago (search ANN.lu for example), but it was always discarded as a low/non-priority thing that no developer thought would be necessary or interested in working with.

Whilst it's not the first time I've heard this complaint, you seem more willing to use this as the key point that separates AROS from OS4/MorphOS.

*I* seem? Ask *any* MorphOS or OS4 user used to their system how much they would like this feature to be removed? It's *not* a trivial thing!

Note that it possibly *will* be removed in "MorphOS 4" or whatever, but as a trade-off you might get x86, 64-bit, SMP, MP etc (who knows).

So is what you're saying that once AROS has seamless 68k software usage, like say Amithlon, it can be seen as NG, but not before?

AROS can never have the same seemless 68k Amiga compatibility by using UAE, it will always be like an Amiga computer running on top of the AROS computer, although *looking* like it isn't!

[OlafS3]

I have sent you what was written here. When someone behaves like little childs than it your side (when we start it this way). I would personally excuse me if I read similar written by Aros supporters. Badmouthing of others is very very bad style. By this "MorphOSs" only harm their side. So do not talk of "childs" here...