If C= had produced an Amiga incompatible wonder computer would you have bought it?

[Franko]

For me it wasn't a question of brand loyalty, it was simply the fact the Commodore produced the best & most innovative machines for their time...

Way back end of 81 start of 82 what were the main choices a ZX80/81 which was nothing more than a big calculator or the VIC20 with full size keyboard, slightly better graphics & far superior sound... no brainer that one...

Then came the C64, but by this time you had all sorts of other computers to choose from , Spectrum, Dragon, Oric Atom & Amstrad to name but a few, but the C64 won out again 64K RAM, superior gfx, sprites and the SID chip that made all the others sound like some old fashioned alarm on the first digital clocks... again a no brainer...

Then of course for me in 86 came the most advanced and elegant (OS wise) home computer ever conceived the Amiga, no need to explain that one...

Never parted with either the VIC20 or C64 because by then i had bought literally thousands of tapes for them and there was no way I was ever going to sell them even though they couldn't be used on the Amiga. So I just hung on to them so that I could still play those thousands of games while I began building up my new Amiga software collection...

By 92 and the A1200, for me there was no need for another computer (still never understand why people always bring doom into the equation) and from that day to this it's always been the Amiga and nothing else...

If CBM had ever brought out a new machine it would have to have been something as radical and as special as the C64 & A1000 were for their time. I certainly wouldn't have bought it just to play Doom and if that's all it was really capable of doing then I'd have passed on that one...

Still more than happy after 30 years of using these brilliant machines and will be until I kick the bucket, no PCs or latest consoles for me, the VIC20, C64 & Amiga cover everything I need from computers...

As for the Doom question... WHY...

(PS:Couldn't answer the poll as nothing in it applies to me....

[Franko]

This is the proof that there was a time when amiga wasn't a religion but a computer.
And when people bought it they did it for its power(it was a descendant of lorraine), not due to religious belief.
For the same reason i think that if this question would have been made in the early 90s, nearly everyone would have answered YES.

The Amiga isn't a religion, it's a simple case of folk recognising something a bit special & different and favouring that to all the other same old, same old...

Seriously doubt if this question had been asked in the 90s nearly everyone would have answered yes...

why... well like the huge leap the C64 was from the VIC 20 and then the giant leap the the Amiga was from the C64. Commodore would have had to come up with a new machine that was so amazing and so far ahead in time and everything in existence that with even the best technology at that time it would have been impossible...

It would also seem a lot of folk here were too young at that time and the only reason they had an Amiga was because they were given it as a Christmas or Birthday present, so really it was down to the parents (wiser) choice than some spotty 13 year old wanting the latest machine just to play Doom on...

For those of us who were old enough to purchase things for ourselves most weren't influenced by the fact at that time (early 90s), that there were now other machines out there capable of competing with the Amiga or indeed bettering it. The simple reason being we knew that even since it's first launch the Amiga was something different and special in comparison to the PC route which may have been better hardware wise but it was nothing but mundane...

[Franko]

@ Bloodline

No it's not.. :p

And yes you "could go on" (as you usually do) but why bother... you aint gonna convince me to your faith...

PS: I would have responded to each point in turn, but I'm busy just now picking me nose...

[Franko]

Franko, keep in mind that if Commodore had won the PC wars with the Amiga, the Amiga would not have been something a bit special & different and it would have been same old, same old...

Even if that had been these case and Amiga had won, it would never have been the same old, same old. As the with the Amiga's OS there has never been anything like it before or since...

The Amiga still to this day has the smallest, most efficient and least resource hungry OS of any comparable home computer...

Compare it to Mac OSX 10.5 nearly 200,000 files just for a basic install and even with 2.5GB of memory it still has to use the HD as virtual RAM, no other computer even comes close to matching the Amiga's highly efficient OS...

[Franko]

Who gives a damn?  Terabytes of HD space, gigabytes of RAM, gigabytes of video card RAM.

S100 bus-based IMSAI users with 5mb hard drives, 24k of RAM and paper-tape readers would have viewed Amiga OS 1.3 as effete.  

Mac OS 1.0 ran in 128k; the A1000 shipped with 256 (but needed 512mb for apps as a practicality).  Was MacOS 4x better than the A1000 then?

You may not give a damn, but I do... :p

What the frig has Terabytes of HD space got to do with it... :confused:

The point is, using an HD as RAM (as well as wearing out the HD quicker) it's slower and less efficient than using physical RAM...

But if your happy with that, then that's your problem not mine...

[Franko]

Hi Smerf...

Sorry but I've got to say cobblers to that...

Why... well, I too am a "power user", I too need a computer that has stability, I too need a computer for keeping all my data, music and pictures and a whole lot more besides...

BUT... I don't need a 6 core AMD machine using bloated Windoze to do that, no siree, I have a much better machine that does all that... wanna know what it is...

It's a Commodore A1200...

PS: If your thinking of expiring and wanna get some real money for your gear to tide the wife over, then I'll give you a fair price for em (provided you can deliver of course)...

PPS: Military, Banks... you must know some good secrets, c'mon spill the beans, I won't tell anyone, it's only me and you that read this rubbish anyways so who's gonna know...

PPPS: Amiga forever is good but it's not much cop for a real Amiga User...

Cheers

Franko

SIDE NOTE: Why's it been so ruddy quiet and boring round here this week, has everyone died... :confused:

[Franko]

One of the things I've always noticed here when it comes to folk trying to claim PCs were better back then, is how they conveniently forget that when you purchased an Amiga you didn't need to purchase a special monitor to use it...

The Amiga by design was created so that it would run straight off a household TV set with a perfect RGB picture unlike a PC which required you to purchase an expensive monitor either separately or as part of the package...

Perhaps when making such comparisons folks should take that glaring fact into account...

[Franko]

Sorry Franko, I've been poncing around trying to do this kinda 'paperwork' thingy jobby, and get my workmates into some hardcore industrial action!

See that's what you get for being elected into the murky world of Politics, all that time you've got to spend now on paperwork fiddling your expenses...

Wow... "Hardcore" eh... when's the video getting released, hope it's as good as me German Porn collection...

[Franko]

@ LordSpunky

Right on Brother...

POWER TO THE PEOPLE

[Franko]

@ Merax

You like Bootdisk have missed the whole point here...

This is the AMIGA we're talking about not a business computer, doubt there are very few (if anyone) still left who use an Amiga to run a business these days...

All the bloated OS's and massive HDs etc... might be fine in the business world where time is money but we're talking about a home computer here that's basically 25 years old and is only really used these days by fans & hobbyists...

You say time to completion and minimising bugs is more important, then don't write such bloated code and you cut down on both, it's that simple...

"I'm going to be using high level languages, abstraction layers, APIs, and bloated third party libraries", therein lye's your problem if you were able to code in efficient  assembler language for your machine you wouldn't have to bother with most of that stuff you mention and save a hell of a lot of HD space (Hmm... thought that HD space didn't matter)...

Your boss and customers may not care but then it's obvious from that statement that it's PCs you talking about and most PC users don't have a scooby doo about such things and wouldn't know the meaning of efficiency or elegance of an operation system if you slapped them in the face with one. They just want to point and click then sit there cursing and swearing when the thing doesn't work and then have to use a call centre or pay someone to tell them how to get the thing to work...

At the end of it all nothing can be said that will change the fact that the Amiga way of things was and is superior to the way modern day PCs are programmed and this crazy attitude PC users have of "but it doesn't matter I've got tons of HD space and CPU power" will ever allow you to change the fact that in comparison to an Amiga a PC and it's OS are bloated and a waste of resources...

[Franko]

@ Merax

I understand where you're coming from with the business side of things but like I say, to me no matter how good modern day computers are when it comes to the OS and software they don't seem to be as efficient and therefore less resource hungry as they could be if more time was taken in the thought & creation of the OS and software...

PS: As modern 3D games is one of things I hate most about computers these days, I'll just not comment on that (I don't wanna start one of me rants)...

[Franko]

I agree with what you are saying. I admire the purity of unbloated software but to optimise takes time and what is the point of doing that if the time it takes to optimise it is greater than the overall time it saves during runtime.

That's a bit of a crazy statement to make and doesn't make the slightest bit of sense... :confused:

Of course it's going to take longer to write a piece of software & optimise it to perform a task than it is to have the programs "runtime" to perform it's task be longer or just slightly less than the time taken to write the software...

I mean say for example a simple program to edit and save a JPeg picture... the programer took 3 days to write and optimise the software, you wouldn't expect it to take you the same 3 days to actually wait for the program to carry out that task, would you...

Doesn't make sense what you said there... :confused:

[Franko]

Simplest way to look at how badly PC/Mac software is written is this example... take the Frodo C64 emulator I have on my A1200 with Blizzard PPC @240Mhz...

It runs in full screen at full speed (no frameskip) and with full audio...

Now take the C64 Emulator written for my other iMac PPC @800Mhz...

It runs in full screen but only at almost full speed with full audio (I have to skip every 2nd frame to achieve full speed)...

Why such a difference, simple sloppy non optimised coding on the Mac's version and running under an OS that consists of well over a hundred thousand files (again not optimised) and relies on constant HD access to do the simplest of OS tasks...

Now surely an 800Mhz processor far superior (supposedly) Gfx board and all the rest of it's more modern circuits should be able to beat hands down an old A1200 with 240Hhz PPC board...

The programmer of Frodo for the C64 took his time and optimised his code to get the best out of these limited resources and the results speak for themselves...

That's one the simple reason why no-one will ever convince me that modern day computers with all their GHz and Gigibytes will ever be better than the Amiga when the software (including the OS) are just bloated pieces of badly written crap...

PS:The C64 emulator "Vice" I have for working under OS4.0 on the Amiga is even worse, it's like watching a slide show of still pictures of C64 games, useless, simple reason for that is OS4.0 went the way of PC software Bloated and badly written...