Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: eniac on April 25, 2007, 02:31:01 AM
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im trying to get my hands on a a1200, but they are getting rare here in oz, eventually i will, but im a hiphop producer and im into "alternative" means (eg not using reason and protools) of production. what music production suites are available for the amiga? i thought i may be able to get some sounds out of it that would be amiga only.
back in my amiga days i was only a guitar player.
im not interested in hooking up midi modules to it as that isnt using the sounds of the amiga....
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The main appeal of the Amiga for modern music production is the lofi grainyness of the sound. There are a few (not real time) softsynths available that are interesting to generate pretty unique sounds.
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really ? what are those softsynths ?
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One I've played around with is, I think, Kokmunicator (303 simulator). Made a mix-track with that and OctaMED SS to practice rhymes over. Made another track in OctaMED, still has a way to go and I'm studying hard again. Uses a mix of 16-bit and 8-bit samples, plus vocals recorded on a PeeCee (8-bit vocals are not real great, I found). I hope to have time at the end of the year to finish the track and rerecord vocals with a Tascam.
I used my 8-bit sampler and a mic to make a track using only my voice (including tracked beatbox) in about 1994.
The old AF CDs used to have a HEAP of sound tools, including soft synths and MIDI connection suites, I can dig one out if you'd like.
jaminJay
"Hip-stick-'em-up-hop!"
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'Aural Synthetica' is a really nice looking Amiga softsynth. haven't spent more than a few minutes with it though...
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I think for doing Hip-hop a tracker like Protracker or OctaMED is really the best tool. It's easy to build up percussion/bass loops from samples.
There are also a few TR-606/808 type softsynths on Aminet.
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Using a tracker like Octamed with 8 bit samples makes a great hip hop sound. I wouldnt use it alone for a whole album though.
I like to use my A1200 running octamed, midi synced with my Mac running Logic. The two together make an awesome range of sound.
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countzero wrote:
really ? what are those softsynths ?
Don't forget the "SynthSound" setting in OctaMED... if you modified the settings in real time, it makes some pretty cool sounds.
OctaMED Sound Studio is the best music production software for the Amiga... but mostly if you have a Sampler.
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I really liked the sounds MusicLineEditor would produce, a lot of fun to play with. Also, 303Tracker for acid bass stuff.
OctaMED is a great tracker, but you're probably better off running the PC version and just using 8 bit samples if that's the sound you're going for. OctaMED's realtime mixdown is very grainy and sort of appealing if you're into lofi but I'm not sure you'd want to subject entire tracks to that.
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There are a lot of good recording and editing tools available for the amiga:
SoundFX (http://www.sonicpulse.de/eng/p_sfx.html)
ProStation Audio (http://www.audiolabs.it/prostation/)
AudioEvolution (http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/)
Also check Aminet (http://aminet.net/)
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If you don't want to be limited to 8 bit samples, you could try Digibooster Professional or Milkytracker, the latter only with a PPC card and MorphOS or the forthcoming AmigaOS 4 for classic Amigas.
Varthall
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@NoFastMem,
The PC version of Octamed running 8bit samples does not have the same sound as running 8bit through Paula on a real Amiga.
call me crazy but I think the paula chip has a much warmer/richer sound compared to PC sound cards when playing 8 bit stuff. It seems even better if you use a sampler like megalosound. :-D
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spihunter wrote:
@NoFastMem,
The PC version of Octamed running 8bit samples does not have the same sound as running 8bit through Paula on a real Amiga.
call me crazy but I think the paula chip has a much warmer/richer sound compared to PC sound cards when playing 8 bit stuff. It seems even better if you use a sampler like megalosound. :-D
I like the megalosound too and use it a great deal, but I find you often get better (more controllable) results to sample on a modern high quality machine and then downsample to 8bit (using the best dithering algorithm your DAW software allows) and then use the lovely paula chips for playback via OctaMED.
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Paula does sound really amazing considering its only 8 bits. Not sure how exactly to say it, but Paula doesn't sound overly "digital" to me.. Some hi-res (16, 24 bit) samples can sound very bright, almost unpleasent when played through good tube equipment. Paula can sound a tiny bit "distorted", but its the good kind of distortion. Same as saying Jimi Hendrix live sounded "distorted". :)
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@bloodline,
I like the megalosound too and use it a great deal, but I find you often get better (more controllable) results to sample on a modern high quality machine and then downsample to 8bit (using the best dithering algorithm your DAW software allows) and then use the lovely paula chips for playback via OctaMED.
I have a 24 bit sampler, I might have to give that method a go. I do like the sort of "uncontrollable" factor of using a real 8 bit sampler though :lol: . I like the way it adds to the creative process!
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@stopthegop,
Paula does sound really amazing considering its only 8 bits. Not sure how exactly to say it, but Paula doesn't sound overly "digital" to me.. Some hi-res (16, 24 bit) samples can sound very bright, almost unpleasent when played through good tube equipment. Paula can sound a tiny bit "distorted", but its the good kind of distortion. Same as saying Jimi Hendrix live sounded "distorted". :)
Thats what I was trying to say but couldnt think of the right wording! :lol:
Paula almost sounds anolog when playing 8 bit digital! :crazy:
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spihunter wrote:
@bloodline,
I like the megalosound too and use it a great deal, but I find you often get better (more controllable) results to sample on a modern high quality machine and then downsample to 8bit (using the best dithering algorithm your DAW software allows) and then use the lovely paula chips for playback via OctaMED.
I have a 24 bit sampler, I might have to give that method a go. I do like the sort of "uncontrollable" factor of using a real 8 bit sampler though :lol: . I like the way it adds to the creative process!
Unfortunately, when working in a professional environment, I need to make sure that results are reproducible and that I can achieve the desired effect within a given time frame.
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Yep, all these things, but please don't do the same "Timbaland" thing. (Ripping of scene music used in mainstream projects)
Then I quote you OctaMED, Future Composer, and Art Of Noise, there are programs with Softsynth usage at first (combined with Samples/Synths)
And again: NO TIMBALAND ! :-)
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let's not forget:
- Bars'n'Pipes (sure, it's made for MIDI, but also does sample, animation, and image playback)
- AHX (yummmmmy)
- SampleWrench (awesome [and now inexpensive] sample editor; the interface is a little quirky until you read the manual and then you realize it's somewhat elegant)
- Synthia
cheers,
trilobyte
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spihunter wrote:
Using a tracker like Octamed with 8 bit samples makes a great hip hop sound. I wouldnt use it alone for a whole album though.
I like to use my A1200 running octamed, midi synced with my Mac running Logic. The two together make an awesome range of sound.
How exactly does that work?
I'm a recent convert to Logic Express but still dabble in OSS.
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Wilse wrote:
spihunter wrote:
Using a tracker like Octamed with 8 bit samples makes a great hip hop sound. I wouldnt use it alone for a whole album though.
I like to use my A1200 running octamed, midi synced with my Mac running Logic. The two together make an awesome range of sound.
How exactly does that work?
I'm a recent convert to Logic Express but still dabble in OSS.
Welcome to the world of Logic! Just get OctaMED to receive Start/Stop and timing from Logic.
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bloodline wrote:
Wilse wrote:
spihunter wrote:
Using a tracker like Octamed with 8 bit samples makes a great hip hop sound. I wouldnt use it alone for a whole album though.
I like to use my A1200 running octamed, midi synced with my Mac running Logic. The two together make an awesome range of sound.
How exactly does that work?
I'm a recent convert to Logic Express but still dabble in OSS.
Welcome to the world of Logic! Just get OctaMED to receive Start/Stop and timing from Logic.
Cheers.
As yet I've only been using the internal instruments so haven't even connected up any outboard gear at all. Is it pretty straightforward?
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I would go directly for an amiga 3000 SCSI with hively tracker and eagleplayer (you got to spend some time to configure, but then it's astonishing great!)
Then if u want even better powerful sound than paula (you heard it! it's powerful.) go get any 16/24 bits Amiga Card - They are diamonds of hardware, even nowadays.
If you're in my position - a4000 owner (1200 its pretty the same), youll find that youll need a VERY EXPENSIVE scandoubler. So... you may try linux'soundtracker. It's not the same thing - lot's worst than hively tracker, but it's not emulated...
You can hear i do with soundtracker-linux (1st 2 songs) - they are just 100kb each one...
2 sound modules (http://www.myspace.com/marciocastro)
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im trying to get my hands on a a1200, but they are getting rare here in oz, eventually i will, but im a hiphop producer and im into "alternative" means (eg not using reason and protools) of production. what music production suites are available for the amiga? i thought i may be able to get some sounds out of it that would be amiga only.
back in my amiga days i was only a guitar player.
You might be interested in http://www.assampler.com/ that allows to create sounds by plugging together sound processes like oscillators, noise, filters.
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HD-Rec
http://hd-rec.de/HD-Rec/index.php?site=screenshots
I want an 060 just for this!
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I like the megalosound too and use it a great deal, but I find you often get better (more controllable) results to sample on a modern high quality machine and then downsample to 8bit (using the best dithering algorithm your DAW software allows) and then use the lovely paula chips for playback via OctaMED.
"dithering algorithm your DAW software allows"
What do you mean by that? Can you explain what you do so I can imagine what you are talking about and duplicate it?
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Check out the music group Crystal Castles, they have taken the old computer and game chips and made a weird style out of it
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"dithering algorithm your DAW software allows"
What do you mean by that? Can you explain what you do so I can imagine what you are talking about and duplicate it?
What software do you use on your PC/Mac?
I use Logic Pro on a Mac, with a 24bit 96khz audio interface. With this setup I can sample all my audio sources (which more often than not, will be something noisy I've found :) ) at a very high quality. I will then bounce the 24bit 96khz audio down to 8bit 16khz, through a few different noise shaping filters an then pick the one that sounds best.
Put your samples on a 720k formated disk and load them
into OctaMED! Bam! Lovely HQ samples on your Amiga... Which you can then sequence and record back into the Mac at super high quality... It does gives the audio a very distinctive sound!
Over the past few years though, I have found that the same effect can be achieved by using a "BitCrusher" and an EQ directly in Logic... This saves having to use the Amiga.
The one thing that I do still need is to write an audio effect that adds the Amiga's nonlinear DAC colour to the audio, I have all the data I need... I just need to sit down and write the AudioUnit effect for Logic :)
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No mac, just a PC with a Sound Blaster Pro
As for software I've been using GoldWave Studio
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No mac, just a PC with a Sound Blaster Pro
As for software I've been using GoldWave Studio
Ok, I've never used that one... But it should have a 16bit->8bit converter there somewhere :)
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im trying to get my hands on a a1200, but they are getting rare here in oz, eventually i will, but im a hiphop producer and im into "alternative" means (eg not using reason and protools) of production. what music production suites are available for the amiga? i thought i may be able to get some sounds out of it that would be amiga only.
back in my amiga days i was only a guitar player.
im not interested in hooking up midi modules to it as that isnt using the sounds of the amiga....
The Amiga is sample based, that means in theory it doenst have any unique, characteristic sound at all.
However, due to some limitations, there is some kind of Amiga-like sound. Especially because most other Computer had either much worse or much better Audio.
To sound like an Amiga you don't need an Amiga. Just keep to the following rules:
1. Use 8 bit samples or simulate this via a bitcrusher effect. 6 or 7 bit are ok too and make the low-fi impression more intense.
2. Use low and different samplingrates for different sounds. The sampling rate has a greater impact to the low-fi impression. 8bit only adds noise, low sampling rate add aliasing artefacts that are much stronger associated with low-fi sound ideals.
e.g. a Bass sound 4-8kHz, Melody instrument or drums ~12kHz and ~20kHz for high hats.
3. Use staight samples, no resonance filters or multisamples.
4. Use very few channels, the Amiga had only 4. But every channel must have a characteristic, "important" instrument. No decoration or subtile filler sounds. E.g. squeeze the Drums into one channel, by playing Hihats only when there is no other drum sound at this time tick.
5. Avoid DSP effects like Reverb. Make the samples "dry" and short. Amiga samples had no long out-fading because of memory limitations and this doesnt sound pleasent in 8bit.
6. Keep to samples from synthesizers that were popular around 1990, like the famous Yamaha DX10, many many Amiga MOD samples are taken from this synth (FM Synthesis).
Things like a "unique" sound of the Paula Chip are a myth and irrelevant to create something "amigasoundish". Of course the frequency response of the Paula Chip has some influence, but honestly, who would ever notice this and how much of it ends up in our ears after all the audio devices in between till the sound reaches physically our ear.
You already gain a lot of athmosphere if you drastically undersample the bass sound, e.g. by using only 4kHz sampling rate.
I personally find it very pleasent to mix the undersampled/8 or less bit-crushed sound with the original sound. I did this here in one of the sounds that is played later in the song, some kind of "blurb" sound:
http://www.hd-rec.de/Archive/DemoSongs/Sarcophaser.mp3
(this mp3 is btw. produced 100% using HD-Rec and Sweeper, the only real Realtime Software Synthesizer on Amiga (except Bernd Röschs' Sampler and Pasis' Organ Simulator, both HD-Rec Plugins).
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I notice a HUGE difference when playing my work in WinUAE and on my Amiga 1200. Digital just looses something, even with all these added effects various audio software has.
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Overall, maybe its not about the acoustics but the fact its being done on a Miggy some 20 years after the fact :D
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Both for me. :)
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Overall, maybe its not about the acoustics but the fact its being done on a Miggy some 20 years after the fact :D
Yeah, using old stuff in lieu of the new stuff.
:rolleyes: