Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: The Top 100 Amiga Games of all Time  (Read 8093 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arkpandora

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 266
    • Show all replies
Re: The Top 100 Amiga Games of all Time
« on: March 03, 2010, 02:09:49 AM »
Hi,

Unfortunately, the only game I could objectively rank as number one is not in the preselection : "Maupiti Island" from Lankhor.  Since to my knowledge the Amiga version of Maupiti is the only video game I have played that is both artistically one of the most ambitious and technically one of the closest to perfection, I think it would have been necessary to include it in order this preselection to make sense.  Especially since the latter is not very credible, as it includes some vulgar and ugly games that haven't much intrinsic value.

Unless the only goal of this survey is to gather personal favourites, but then it should not offer any preselection at all, and it's only a sociological survey -- it should not be called "The Top 100 list of Amiga games of all time" but "The 100 most popular Amiga games among Amiga forums visitors in 2010"...

And the goal itself is not clear : the same page says "vote on and discover what you think the best Amiga games really are", then "Pick your favourite Amiga games from the list below".  The first sentence calls for an objective judgement, while the second calls for a subjective judgement, and that can make two very different Top 10.  For example, I will put "Another World" in my Top 10 if I answer the first sentence, but I won't if I answer the second...

In conclusion, I'm afraid this survey will well need revision and clarification so that its results can be usable and correspond to its goal.  I remember taking part in a similar survey on another website a few years ago, maybe "The Alltime Amiga Games Top 50" whose site is now down.  That survey was more valid : it was clear that you had to submit the "best" games, not your favourite games, and you could select any Amiga game by copying the titles of your choice from the - huge - list and pasting them into the survey form.

I will be happy to help if I can.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 02:04:38 PM by arkpandora »
 

Offline arkpandora

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 266
    • Show all replies
Re: The Top 100 Amiga Games of all Time
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 02:53:20 AM »
Hi,

Thank you for your reaction.

Quote
Just because a specific game is viewed as the best game they have personally played, this only reflects that person's personal view.
Since man is capable of knowledge and consciousness, it may not only reflect personal view : a personal view may be worked on in order to get closer to the object's qualities than illusion.  It is such a work which entitled me to make that assertion : that's why I briefly justified it.  If that's not enough, I can demonstrate it -- that it is absurd not to include "Maupiti Island" to the preselection, and also that some other missing games (such as "Super Cars" and "Budokan") have more intrinsic value than a number of games from the preselection.

Quote
This might not be the same view as anyone else.
Naturally !  Since your goal is to "create the definitive Top 100 list of Amiga games of all time", a list that serves the games and may serve as a reference in the future, that's the reason why my purpose is to highlight the merits of the games beyond subjective personal views (including mine of course).

Quote
If someone thinks a game is one of the best on the Amiga, surely it would also be one of their favourites?
Absolutely not, and in a way you have just agreed with me by saying that someone else may not share my view about Maupiti Island : a masterpiece, or perfection, may not be to everyone's liking.  I took an example : to my knowledge "Another World" is one of the best Amiga games, but although I like watching it I hate playing it so I would never rank it among my favourites.


It occurs to me that the current preselection could be defensible if it defined video game as raw recreation only, instead of art or interactive digital art.  But then such a major restriction should be mentioned in the title at least (for example "The 100 most relaxing Amiga games of all time" :lol:).  Yet Maupiti Island's real-time and immersion work alone may provide unique recreation.  And thanks to its unique physics, the fun of such a game as "4D Sports Driving" for example cannot be ruled out among racing games.
 

Offline arkpandora

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 266
    • Show all replies
Re: The Top 100 Amiga Games of all Time
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 10:24:11 PM »
Thank you for your answer.

Quote
However, I'm of the view that graphics do not make a game, in the same way that visual post production effects do not make a film, or a book cover a true representation of its content. Narrative content, a good captivating or intelligent story, brilliant gameplay.. These are the things that form a good game regardless of the graphical style or age of their design. People still play the original Space Invaders or even Pong and enjoy it just as much as a current Wii game that uses the same mechanics of gameplay, but these old games graphics are some of the most primitive you will find. It proves that a good game, a favourite of gamers, just has to contain good gameplay, a control system that works, and something that sparks the player's imagination and they can relate to in order to deliver an enjoyable and fun experience whilst playing. Exactly as a film or book should entertain and captivate you.
I'm afraid you are reading in my approach the flaws I attributed to your preselection : I agree with you, and that's the reason why I intervened.

Talking of art or interactive digital art, I'm not referring to any specific angle such as graphics, gameplay, music, sound, animation or scenario.  I'm not referring to the sum of them either : a masterpiece is not (or not only) a preconceived sum of successful elements, but a successful conception.  I'm referring to art in the general sense of the word.

Quote
The artistic merits of a game, and the actual game itself are 2 very different things.
That's why I am obliged to mention "Maupiti Island" : to my knowledge the Amiga version (and Atari version to a certain extent but not the IBM-PC version which is a rather bad and poor copy of the original) is the only video game which demonstrates by itself that "the artistic merits of a game and the actual game" can be indissociable.  From the artistic point of view, it means that Maupiti demonstrates that interactive digital art (hence video games) is a distinctive art form.  And from the gaming point of view, it means that Maupiti demonstrates that quality of gaming experience may reach new levels if the gameplay and other subjective dimensions of creation are developed as only one creation process.

I know that such a statement may sound so grandiloquent that one could succumb to the temptation to attribute it to ordinary egocentricity, but it would be a mistake, and the stakes are so important that this thesis needs to be given at least the benefit of the doubt.  Moreover I know that it may be too condensed to be received easily by a person who doesn't agree with it ; I just don't have the time to develop if nobody asks me so, and I still haven't written any essay or article on this subject, but I will answer any question or argument.

It goes without saying that I am and will always be looking for any conflicting argument, whether it is spontaneous or erudite.

Quote
With any survey of this kind it is impossible to please everyone completely who takes part. As I said before, that just is not possible.
I wish to make it clear that it is your own regret, not mine : I haven't mentioned any personal preference.  On the contrary my purpose is to help you validate your selection hence your survey, beyond any personal view.
 

Offline arkpandora

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2004
  • Posts: 266
    • Show all replies
Re: The Top 100 Amiga Games of all Time
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2010, 10:14:37 PM »
It would indeed be easier.  Also Lemon's voting system allows more accuracy and liberty.  Moreover it is dynamic, therefore really "definitive", at least in the time sense of the word, unlike a survey.  In order to aim at achieving a "definitive" Top in the authoritative sense of the word, one would have to replace the voters by a jury, but it still wouldn't be definitive in the temporal sense.

However I suppose that the fun is part of Harrison's motivation, and on this at least I can agree !
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 10:17:52 PM by arkpandora »