Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Kin-Hell on December 15, 2005, 07:54:21 AM
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I'm relatively new to "amiga.org" but not the Amiga Scene. I was using Amigas back in 1987 & have a couple of High Spec A4000's which I still use. Amiga-Hardware.com has been an immense help to me over the years, and calling in this morning at 07.35am, Their Web page says:
"Due to complaints the site is offline. It "may" return at some point, but with reduced contents."
Anyone know exactly why?
How can a database site like that get slated in such manner? It amazes me to think that any service the site actually offered, was breaking any laws, anywhere!
Maybe it's just a systen error at their end, (here's hoping) or maybe just another Nail into the coffin perhaps, how sad. :getmad:
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Maybe they don't mean somebody has complained, but the server is suffering from a complaint? Like when people say they have a medical complaint?
I have never looked at that site, but I would be interested to know what happened!
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moto
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NOOooo... what happend, it was/is such a nice site. I can't see why anyone would be offended by anything the site had to offer.
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Yeah it is down.
What a bummer, what on that site could have offended any laws? I'm thinking there must be some evil EU directive or something massively illogical behind this.
It didn't offer downloads of copyrighted material, it didn't reverse engineer anything, if anything it served as a good source of advertising old hardware and giving good info about obsurce things that pop up on eBay etc.
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I really hope Ian is gonna give us an answer soon about the why question ...
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Here there is a backup
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.amiga-hardware.com 8-)
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When I clock on the link and on a date I get something that looks a bit like the Big Book but when I click on some subjects I get often :
Failed Connection.
We're sorry. Your request failed to connect to our servers. We may be experiencing technical difficulties and suggest that you try again later.
See the FAQs for more info and help, or contact us.
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web.archive's backup sucks anyway... It's last snapshot is from 2004...
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Don´t know how many mails he got already but I have sent Ian a mail with a few questions and shall report when he writes back ...
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Quote:
Re: "http://www.amiga-hardware.com" is Down??
web.archive's backup sucks anyway... It's last snapshot is from 2004...
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Amiga 3000D/CS MKII 060/128MB/22G HD/CDRW/PIV/Algor Pro/X-Surf 2
Unquote:
Mirror (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.amiga-hardware.com)
It sucks even more cos thats down for me too - 09.40am
I was on amiga-Hardware last night at just before 8pm so trying to check in this morning at 07.35 makes it a 12 hour slot.
Can anyone narrow it down at all?
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If this is a hosting problem, DiscreetFX would be glad to host the site for free if it is not too large. If someone is in contact with the site owner please let them know this. Then the site could return ASAP and never be down again.
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New text on http://www.amiga-hardware.com/
The Big Book of Amiga Hardware
Firstly, apologies for the previous message. It was written as a quick placeholder in the early hours of the morning and I needed to sleep. The site has been taken down because I received a copyright violation notice from the author of a driver. Perhaps it was foolish of me to offer such things for download. The site has always been non-profit, is ad-banner free and has cost me a lot in the 7 years it has been running in both time and money. It is also the product of hundreds of contributors who have taken the time and effort to send submissions. It's for these reasons that I would like the site to return, however I need to decide whether it's worth the risk and if so what alterations need to be made.
- Thanks, Ian.
I hope one driver author will not spoil everything for everyone else.
-Pyromania
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Perhaps he could add a "Make a donation for the dog" as Amiga.org already asks for a donation for the cat :-)
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The site has been taken down because I received a copyright violation notice from the author of a driver.
That's pathetic. Surely drivers can only be used by people who own the hardware for which they are designed, which entitles them to use the driver anyway. What's the harm of offering it for download for people who have lost or damaged disks?
I hope the site won't go offline because of one short-sighted individual.
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moto
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If I was Ian I would simply take the driver out and make a note that the author complained about it being on the website. The site users could then draw their own conclusions about whether the author of the driver is being too anal or not (I don't know what the driver is and whether the hardware it applies to is for sale today)
It really is a pity that things like this happen. A lot of people contributed to that site and Ian has done a great job all along. It even encouraged me to make a few contributions, one of them just last week!
I hope the site comes back up and authors realise that this information is valuable to a community that has seen its support channels dwindle into almost nothingness over the years. If it wasn't for Amiga.org and BBOAH (and one or two other sites) I wouldn't have kept my Amiga and I wouldn't have bought the hardware I have acquired over the last year.
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Let's start a petition to make sure it comes back :-)
tBBoAHW is a fantastic resource that shouldn't be lost over driver issues.
If there's a complaint about the driver(s) the simple solution would be to stop making them avaliable. Which would possibly take sometime to remove the files and links etc.
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Blimey, what terrible news.
Is there any way of contacting Ian? I have a suggestion for how the site could continue to operate without getting into legal trouble which hopefully would also mean minimum effort on the part of the web master.
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Would want to know who was the ome that complained about such a stupidity and made the site go down.
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motorollin wrote:
The site has been taken down because I received a copyright violation notice from the author of a driver.
That's pathetic. Surely drivers can only be used by people who own the hardware for which they are designed, which entitles them to use the driver anyway.
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moto
That's true. The only exception to that, that I can think of, is Elbox - who ask you to pay for drivers after you already purchased the hardware.
But whoever the complainant is, they should realise that by doing what they've done all they have succeeded in doing is p*** off a large proportion of their customers, and for what gain?
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What the... since WHEN are drivers illegal to download? Since WHEN is providing drivers to download a Copyright Infringment?
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Lando wrote:
motorollin wrote:
That's pathetic. Surely drivers can only be used by people who own the hardware for which they are designed, which entitles them to use the driver anyway.
The only exception to that, that I can think of, is Elbox - who ask you to pay for drivers after you already purchased the hardware.
Really? I got drivers with my Mediator and updates were free as long as I registered.
Lando wrote:
But whoever the complainant is, they should realise that by doing what they've done all they have succeeded in doing is p*** off a large proportion of their customers, and for what gain?
If the person's identity is ever revealed, they won't be popular...
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moto
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Sigh :(.
Oh well, there's still the Amiga Hardware Database (http://amiga.resource.cx/). Any bets on how long it'll take before they receive the same complaint?
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Invisix wrote:
What the... since WHEN are drivers illegal to download? Since WHEN is providing drivers to download a Copyright Infringment?
If you have to pay for drivers, or the drivers are actually made by someone either for non-profit (just paying for the resource) or profit.
Generally - if the person who wrote the drivers didn't put it in the public domain then it's illegal to make said drivers avaliable unless you've got an agreement with the author.
It's a bit crap, but if the drivers are not meant to be in the public domain then there's nothing really we can do about those drivers.
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I don't doubt the legal situation, i.e. the author was entitled to impose copyright restrictions on his/her software. But it's a bit sad really - the author should have been flattered that his driver was considered worthy of inclusion.
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moto
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If the author is going to be a anal ass about having the driver on there, then they need to provide support for the 20 year old hardware device!!!
Purely insane that this happened. Some people never cease to amaze me...
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I'm assuming that the complainer had a very good reason to make the request, or didn't realise the implications of what they were complaining about.
If it was networking drivers, or a CD-ROM driver, or ... then I can see why they would complain as people are still trying to sell the software to make devices work.
Rather than getting all "let's get the pitchforks and flaming torches and hunt the monster", I think the community should be trying to help Ian provide the resource that he did but without the risk of infringing someone's copyright.
If anyone knows how to contact Ian, please let me know :D
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I just got a mail back from Ian :
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> I don´t know how many mails you have received already
> about the subject but there´s panic going on at several
> forums. Can you give a comment to this to assure the scene
> it will be up soon ?? Is there any way people can help ??
> Is money an issue ?? Can you add "Add a donation for this board"
> function to solve some problems ???
Thanks for your concern Frank, luckily it's not a money related issue. The site is down so I can review the contents and remove
anything that might cause this to happen in the future. Hopefully then I can bring it back up.
Cya
Ian
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motorollin wrote:
If the person's identity is ever revealed, they won't be popular...
Why? Ian said that it was his own decision to take down the site for a while.
I hope the site does come back, I've found it damn useful over the years, so a big thanks to Ian and all the contributors. :pint:
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I love that site! Its one of my firefox bookmarks that I actually have a button for!
Oh, and I agree with the 'pitchforks' comment. Drawing conclusions when you don't know what happened is a bit hasty...
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I agree with Cyberus, I love amiga-hardware.com I use it on a regular basis to read up on old school Amiga hardware, and such. :banana:
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Perhaps what the site needs is to be sponsored and hosted by a commerical Amiga friendly entity. If the site is not too big DiscreetFX volunteers to be that company. We would handle any future complaints and free the designer of the site, Ian in this case of any worry since complaining companies would come to DiscreetFX, not him for complaints if any. Why would DiscreetFX do this? We think this site is a valuable resource and have used it many times ourselves, we don't want to see it die. DiscreetFX would charge nothing for providing this service to the Amiga community and Big Book of Amiga Hardware.
Best regards
-DiscreetFX Team
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Does the Author of the offending software have copyrights who can make his software available for download?
If so, & if there is no more support or updates from the Author, then is there really ANY need for the Author to be so Obstinate!?
Ian did remove the software & considering what Amiga-Hardware is & has represented for the last 7 years, surely an apology both ways with offer a quick resolve. Maybe Amiga-Hardware can place a note on the front page suggesting removal of any copyrighted material within an instant of notification.
A lot of Authors of Amiga software no longer offer support & are no longer contactable so was this Author still contactable or not!?
If not, that just confounds the issue further & I laugh at the "small-ness" of it all. :lol:
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Excellent points. People need to read that^ again and again.
Unless this driver is currently under development, or at least is still being advertised and supported then the author has no moral ground with which to {bleep} about things.
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>web.archive's backup sucks anyway... It's last snapshot is from 2004...
How does one get archive.org to archive a site anyway? 2004 is way too old. Google *might* have some things cached but then you'd have to know what was missing from archive.org (which is flawed and incomplete at best) and try to patch them together. As the years pass, somebody needs to start putting these sites on CD for the day when the corporations and their government stooges turn the screws on the internet.
We need to get archive.org to archive http://amiga.resource.cx completely, while there's still time.
DiscreetFX may want to quickly hit archive.org and copy what files are there.
>The site has been taken down because I received a copyright violation notice
>from the author of a driver. Perhaps it was foolish of me to offer such things for download.
1) We need to find out who the asshole complainant is.
2) We need to get the site put up on another host, sans that driver.
Personally I think that driver should now be pirated widely as a punative measure against the complainant, unless the complainant didn't intend for the whole site to be taken down. Don't give me any crap about piracy either. If people need the drivers, they obviously have the hardware. Hasty my ass.
Furthermore if the driver is at all of any further commercial interest, I suggest we set up a Reward (as seen with AROS and linux efforts) for the coding of another driver that will do the same thing. Then we release it to the public domain. This way the support will be there, and it will send a message to any anal-retentive types out there who might blindside any other Amiga do-gooders like Ian.
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@ Boing
No, my good man, we must just chill and see if any additional facts come to light. We don't know what the driver is and what all the circumstances are. Ian will sort it out and the site will be back. He is just being cautious. With any luck the author of the driver will step forward and state his case (he must frequent this forum or perhaps EAB if he has written a driver and also visits BBOAH).
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Worst case scenerio compress it up and put it out for us to grab one last time. IT would be terrible if it vanished forever!
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boing wrote:
3) We need to find out who the worthless host was who acted against the hardware site in such a fascist manner.
Jeez, learn to read an article before getting out the torches and rounding up the lynch mob, this Amiga.org not Slashdot FFS!
The hosting company didn't take the site down, the author of the driver didn't ask for the site to be taken down(just his copyrighted work removed), Ian took it down himself
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I don't give a damn. Somebody has to hang.
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Just got another mail from Ian, in the middle of the night :
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On Thursday 15 December 2005 17:30, you wrote:
> nice to hear again from you. Meanwhile I have heard of your 2nd
> text you got displayed. As you can read on the threads below people
> would like to know the name of the owner of the driver who caused
> you the trouble :-)
I think it would be unfair of me to name the author because I don't want to
risk them getting flamed, or risk myself being pulled into arguments about
it. I will say though that as far as I'm aware the author does not work for
any currently active Amiga company and it was reference an old driver. Many
people have suggested it might be companies such as Elbox or Eyetech but that
is not the case.
> Actually your board being down is almost like
> London without the Twin Towers, people really take this serious !!!
> Can you give a date when it will be up ???
I cannot give an exact date, but if I would like the site to be back up as
soon as possible. Obviously it will take some time to review the contents and
how submissions are handled and all being well I can bring it back. With it
being close to Christmas, it does mean other things will have to take
priority but hopefully before the New Year.
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Ian Chapman
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Hello All,
It's very sad to see Amiga-Hardware web site gone.I've
used that site countless times over the years and hope the
site returns soon as there is some information I need on
GFX card.For that Asshole with his driver disk which made
poor Ian take his site down.I hope your happy with yourself as for me and the Amiga community ain't.Regards Merv :-?
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I know I shouldnt' but & Just to Quote:
boing said:
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I don't give a damn. Somebody has to hang.
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...aw heck.....I can't resist.............LOL! :roflmao:
...but he's not wrong! :inquisitive:
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I think Ian has handled this very well.
Perhaps some people could volunteer to help him track down the copyright owners of the various drivers to get permission?
Some positive community action.
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@all
afaik, generally accepted international copyright is automatic upon creation and valid unless a) the author dies prior to transferring the right or b) he/she affirmatively releases the copyright. There really is no such thing as passive abandonware in software copyright law.
Having said that, it is a pity that someone would be so petty as to prevent use of some likely 10 year old software that has little/no street value other than to a community of retro enthusiasts. This is especially the case if said author does not make the copyrighted material available for sale. But, in the final analysis it is his ball and he is in the right to say who can play with it.
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Sorry to say, but there really is NO international copyright law. No such thing. The U.S. copyright law gives the holder his lifetime (from the date of issue) plus 70 years.
"International copyright" is "usually" treated the same in the U.S. IF there is a treaty on the books that covers most of the usual commerce laws and regs with the country the author lives in.
What we need to do, is find out what this driver is, and then write a work around type driver. The original writer may {bleep} and scream, but if the code is different, he's out of the picture and the Amiga community can rest easy.
Obviously this isn't a money issue, at this point in time, just some one being a pure PITA.
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RE Above post.......
Yeah, but Authors CAN enforce who CAN host their software for download which then is part of the copyright. Whilst we do not know who the PITA was, it would be obvious the PITA had some sort of copyright leaning towards this.
There was no other reason for Ian to host that file, other than to provide it for people who would NEED it for their Hardware. I'm sure the Author has every right to be a PITA if his copyright is Legit.
None the less, seeing Amiga-Hardware.com dissapear for this is very disturbing & I hope Ian can resolve it's absence sooner than later.
Perhaps a good time to Incude a "Disclaimer" :idea: on Amiga-Hardware's Home Page, just to cover your Ass & the Amiga Comunity that loves your site so much.
Best of luck with it all Ian. :-)
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It had to happen didnt it!
http://amiga.resource.cx/ is DOWN!
ffs! :roll:
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The two biggest hardware boards down. Anybody got a perfect backup of the AmigaHardwareDatabase that is less than a year old ??? :-?
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I have the whole site backed up. ;)
Probably the hard disk has died, we'll see it tomorrow.
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@motrucker
Yes, you are right there is no world government...I was speaking as to how business is done internationally; something that is getting better and better for copyright holders. US or, for that matter, EU country copyright law has a very long reach indeed. The copyright holder can sue even international defendants in US court (there are suits pending against many Chinese companies for this very thing for knockoff software and music). A foreigner can't hide behind lack of a treaty to prevent a judgment in US court, even if you live in some hostile country like Iran (which has little or no diplomatic relations with the US). Think of the 9-11 plaintiff's wrongful death suits against Osama bin Laden. Where is he?...well he's not exactly going to show up in a US court.
Good luck collecting you say? If the violator doesn't appear in court, a default judgment is entered and even if the plaintiff can't collect right now, the pirate had better stay away from all US ports and countries *with* treaties to enforce valid judgments (e.g. bank accounts, assets). Think it doesn't matter?...Just take a look at all those Iranian assets still frozen since 1979.
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Argus wrote:
Good luck collecting you say? If the violator doesn't appear in court, a default judgment is entered and even if the plaintiff can't collect right now, the pirate had better stay away from all US ports and countries *with* treaties to enforce valid judgments (e.g. bank accounts, assets). Think it doesn't matter?...Just take a look at all those Iranian assets still frozen since 1979.
But how many Chinese assests have been frozen since their pirating started enmass? All of this gets off the point however.
My main point was simply how long a copyright holder has power over his work. I still think more than one piece of software (ie drivers in this case) is better in many ways.
I would rather write the driver myself, than tilt lances at the copyright laws.......
And if everyone thinks this isn't problem, wait until Bill Gate starts defending all of the patents he has bought up on computer hard & software! Some of them may well be Amiga related.
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motrucker wrote:
But how many Chinese assests have been frozen since their pirating started enmass?
The Cuban government has been asking the same question for years. They want to sell us a few lousy cigars and sugar cane but the US won't hear of it because they're Communist....while China pirates US products with abandon and gets most favored nation status....all the while building bigger armaments and ICBMs..politics is all it is, plain and simple. China is big but we're told not a threat, Cuba is small but is. Iran threatens openly to blow up Israel and is making nukes to do just that, but we have the US 3rd Infantry Division busy tied up 'winning hearts and minds' in Baghdad....go figure
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I think the web archive waybackmachine might have most of the site archived here (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.amiga-hardware.com).
-David
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Why the bleep is Ian worried about the asshole complainant getting flamed? The world has a right to know who is se damned petty as to do something like this. Why should Ian want to protect him? Is Ian this spineless, or is there something else going on here?
Do you think it has to do with TCP/IP or SCSI stuff?
Has anybody contacted whomever runs the other site to see why it's down?
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I'm really missing it, the snapshots aren't any good, no images etc.
Good to see some lamer is guarding his/her huge revenue stream from drivers for 10+ year old hardware by shutting down a site for the community. pfft!
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amiga.resource.cx is operative at this moment from here.
No problems browsing it.