The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

[jarrody2k]

Hi folks,

With Bill's recent post there was a point of ridicule at Amiga Inc's requirement for a hardware partner to have >= 500 000 USD of revenue to be considered.  Given the Amiga publics' general evaluation of the Amiga technologies some thought this request was a little smug.  I, however, think this is a reasonable if not underestimated expectation of a company that is willing to roll-out and support its own computer hardware.  Even the big hardware companies can't get it right, releasing motherboards with a plethora of hardware bugs and software workarounds which slow the system down.

But I digress.  What is more interesting is the public evaluation of the worth of Amiga technologies.  Clearly a lot of people base their evaluations that profits will only come from the existing base of Amiga enthusiasts.  Perhaps there are opportunities waiting to be exposed in the private sector?  Perhaps we are being narrow-minded?

What are your thoughts on how much the Amiga technologies are worth?  What else could they be used for?  Is there even any scope for the AmigaOS in the new millenium?

Can Amiga Inc expect a potential hardware partner with 500 thousand dollar minimum revenue?

Jarrod.

-Edit- Sorry, added an extra 0 to the price!

[redrumloa]

The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

[jarrody2k]

redrumloa wrote:

The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

Heheh, harsh!

At that estimate, maybe Bill should have been happy with the $70 000 he got from the liquidated inventory after all?

[Ilwrath]

With Bill's recent post there was a point of ridicule at Amiga Inc's requirement for a hardware partner to have >= 5 000 000 USD of revenue to be considered.

I believe the actual number stated was $500,000 USD.  Not nearly as outlandish.  However, that mark still puts anything "Amiga" branded outside the means and scale of the hobby community.  I doubt even the largest players in the remaining Amiga community (Individual, Elbox, etc.) turn that in a year.

I'm guessing that there is a bit of spite in Bill's statements.  He invested (possibly mis-invested, but invested, all the same) a lot of time, effort, sweat, tears, and money into Amiga.  He threw away a lot of posh management job credentials to chase this beast.  At this stage, I guess he wants either a "home run" (some insane large company to swoop in and save the day) or nothing.

In reality, though, I think that the time for a "home run" came and went.  There is nothing interesting about the Amiga IP, other than the name and the Amiga OS ROMs (capatalizing on the retro / hobby market).  

Can Amiga Inc expect a potential hardware partner with 5 million dollar minimum revenue?

Magic 8-ball says "HIGHLY DOUBTFUL"

[jarrody2k]

Ilwrath wrote:

I believe the actual number stated was $500,000 USD.  Not nearly as outlandish.  However, that mark still puts anything "Amiga" branded outside the means and scale of the hobby community.

Cheers for the correction.  I originally read it correctly and then somehow mixed it up when I was writing the post.

I agree that the hobby market is out of the question.  I don't think it really was in the question.  But I really can't imagine why anyone would bother with developing an OS (and then building another) unless there is some sort of marketable aspect of the technology.. some way that current big market players could utilise its functionality that they either can't with other technologies *or* can't for at least the same price.

So Bill is either very brave or very very stupid?

What *is* he trying to sell?

Also, does anyone know anything about the IBM 'Arctic' platform he mentioned?

Jarrod.

[csixty4]

jarrody2k wrote:

But I digress.  What is more interesting is the public evaluation of the worth of Amiga technologies.  Clearly a lot of people base their evaluations that profits will only come from the existing base of Amiga enthusiasts.  Perhaps there are opportunities waiting to be exposed in the private sector?  Perhaps we are being narrow-minded?

I rather doubt it.  AmigaOS has been allowed to more or less stagnate over the past 5 years.  With only basic memory protection, its only saving grace in the increasingly networked world we live in is its obscurity.

The total market for AmigaOS right now is the retrocomputing market.  There are much more modern operating systems out there, including Linux which can be downloaded for free, which are much better choices for desktop and embedded applications.

From what I've read, MorphOS is at least a step in the right direction with their "Q-Box", but that's not an Amiga property.  Even there, how many MorphOS users are out there?

I hesitate to put a dollar figure on Amiga's assets because I don't know everything they own.  But let's just say I see little value in the company beyond the name, and even that is of limited value these days.

[jarrody2k]

csixty4 wrote:
With only basic memory protection, its only saving grace in the increasingly networked world we live in is its obscurity.

I don't think memory protection is really a defining issue.  Only really setting a few coprocessor registers for each context change.  The real issue, from memory, was cache coherency due to a limitation of the Articia chip.  This would only mean that the cache is flushed before a context switch. (Modified cache lines written back.  Unmodified lines dirtied).  This would slow down switching between threads, hampering Amiga's fine reputation for fast thread changes, but it isn't going to shake up our networked world.  Especially if a hardware solution exists later down the track that eliminates this problem.

But then I don't have an entire understanding of OS kernel implementation.  Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong

Jarrod.

[Piru]

The real issue, from memory, was cache coherency due to a limitation of the Articia chip. This would only mean that the cache is flushed before a context switch.

That's nonsense. The broken articia cache coherency affect DMA transfers (cache isn't always invalidated, thus as a workaround with CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA is needed). Normally with fully cache snooping hardware (such as Articia was supposed to be), no such CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA magic is required.

[stopthegop]

How much money are we talking here?  Five hundred thousand, fifty thousand, or five thousand?  Didn't follow the line about corrections and correcting the corrected corrections, etc..  Also, dollars or euros?

[redrumloa]

@stopthegop

There seems to be 2 different themes here.

1) Amiga Inc's licensing requirements. Bill Mc has stated this to be $500,000, a company must be grossing this much to request a license.

2) What people think Amiga Inc as a company themelves are worth at this point in time.

[dammy]

My best guessamate is between $20K and $90K, depending on well they have their IP squared away.  Unless your looking at it to bash Hyperion over the head with, then it could be pricesless.  :popcorn:

Dammy

[Tomas]

redrumloa wrote:

The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

I honestly think the brand name would sell for more than that.
The Amiga brand might not be as strong as the commodore brand, but alot of gamers still have found memories of Amiga games.

[jarrody2k]

Piru wrote:

The real issue, from memory, was cache coherency due to a limitation of the Articia chip. This would only mean that the cache is flushed before a context switch.

That's nonsense. The broken articia cache coherency affect DMA transfers (cache isn't always invalidated, thus as a workaround with CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA is needed). Normally with fully cache snooping hardware (such as Articia was supposed to be), no such CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA magic is required.

Hi Piru,

No need to go on the offensive about my 'nonsense' and such.  I did say I was a bit misinformed and I was indeed expecting your tech-savvy corrections  Which makes me wonder now, what exactly is wrong with AmigaOS4's memory protection?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

redrumloa wrote:
@stopthegop

There seems to be 2 different themes here.

1) Amiga Inc's licensing requirements. Bill Mc has stated this to be $500,000, a company must be grossing this much to request a license.

2) What people think Amiga Inc as a company themelves are worth at this point in time.

The one theme of licensing costs pre-empts the one question:  What's the value of Amiga technology?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

Tomas wrote:

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

I honestly think the brand name would sell for more than that.
The Amiga brand might not be as strong as the commodore brand, but alot of gamers still have found memories of Amiga games.

That is true.  The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP or even custom devices like Minimig.  A market that is alive and profitable at the current time.

Jarrod.