Masjsta's A500 Vampire

[kolla]

It would run 0 hours with Amiga BSD, Amix or Shapeshifter with TurboEVD video driver.

Amiga BSD?

No, paper is neither software nor hardware. But thanks for the straw man.

Clearly a sheet of paper i hardware. Postscript is an example of a language that is used to describe how the print on the paper will be. Same for 3D printing, you program the model. Same for FPGA, you program the layout. You only need to run the programming once to get a sheet of printed paper done and ready for reading. You only need to run the programming once to get a 3D print done and ready for use. You only need to run the programming once to get an FPGA done and ready for use. The software (the "core") is only there to tell the FPGA how to lay out its gates, after that is done, the "software" is strictly no longer needed.

[kolla]

For what it is worth - the Minimig runs uCLinux and Minix, I haven't tried them on the MIST, may do that over this weekend, just for show.

Oh, and MIST runs Aminix, iirc.

[psxphill]

Clearly a sheet of paper i hardware. Postscript is an example of a language that is used to describe how the print on the paper will be. Same for 3D printing, you program the model. Same for FPGA, you program the layout.

You don't program the layout in FPGA, you configure switches. Which is what software is, a configuration of switches. The switches are volatile therefore the configuration is software, if you put it in an ASIC then it's hardware. There is a convention that if the software is executed from flash memory then it's called firmware (all firmware is software, not all software is firmware).

Postscript is software, it's passed through other layers of software and finally configures the print hardware. The paper is just passing by when this happens, the closest CS description for it would be a "storage medium".

So your argument is that because the Apollo core doesn't currently run those non-Amiga operating systems people shouldn't buy Amiga accelerators that use the Apollo core.

I'm pretty sure I haven't said people shouldn't buy anything. Those are three applications from the top of my head that would really use a faster cpu. There are other applications that require an MMU and FPU, but those in particular would be much harder for any software patching schemes to deal with.

Does your argument also apply to all the other Accelerators using Motorola/Freescale CPUs without MMUs?

If people want to choose to buy an accelerator without an MMU it's up to them, the problem is that Gunnar and all you fanboi's are saying that because you don't see a need for an mmu then I deserve to be mobbed for saying I do. Then after that childish behaviour you all then try to shut down any logical discussion with more mobbing and victim blaming.

Are they all incompatible/inaccurate too?

The incompatible and inaccuracy in Apollo is nothing to do with the MMU, so no.

Do you also go on Unix and BSD forums telling them not to buy x86 hardware as it can't run Amiga OS without emulation or classic Mac forums telling them their machines are useless because they don't have a the custom chips to play Amiga games natively?

Childish strawman.

I'm not sure you're argument will win over many people since the "failings" of the current Apollo core would seem to be insignificant to the vast amount of Amiga users who probably have no interest in running the software you want to.

Sure there are people who will vote for Donald Trump the same way a lot of people voted for Putin in the rigged elections and a lot of people screwed the UK's future by voting for Brexit. But being on the popular side is not the same as being on the right side, but you wouldn't understand as you just want to get in on the mobbing.

Ok lets discuss.

Lets start with a simple question. Which Amiga do you own.

So which specific part of the Apollo-Core do you believe to be defective or feature missing.

I own three A1200's, an a500 and an a500+ (I sold my A1500 a couple of years ago). I've got a phase 5 030/50 card in my A1200 with scsi and 48mb of ram and 2(ish) gb ide hard drive. For the a500 I've got a 28mhz 68000 and trifecta 250mb scsi drive.

Apollo is missing the fpu and mmu & the exception frames/what instructions it supports don't match any existing 680x0 design. While I understand that the mmu and fpu haven't been implemented yet, Gunnar was quite clear at the start that he has no intentions of ever providing a 100% accurate implementation of them. None of the statements made since give any indication that he has changed his mind, only that any issues will be dealt with by software. Which is fine for a lot of people, as you're so desperate to get anything that you'll accept what he says without question. So desperate in fact that any negative discussion is met with pure hostility, in case it upsets Gunnar & he leaves with his closed source core.

I just think it's all a real shame.

[VingtTrois]

I've a dream...a Vampire dream...V1200 with more than 512MB of RAM :banana:

[kolla]

You don't program the layout in FPGA, you configure switches.

I would say that organising the switches, or rather, the gates, in a certain way constitutes a "layout".

Which is what software is, a configuration of switches. The switches are volatile therefore the configuration is software, if you put it in an ASIC then it's hardware.

And non-volatile FPGAs? How do they fit into this?

Postscript is software, it's passed through other layers of software and finally configures the print hardware. The paper is just passing by when this happens, the closest CS description for it would be a "storage medium".

And an FPGA can also be a storage medium.

fanboi's

That is not how plural is done.

[psxphill]

I've a dream...a Vampire dream...V1200 with more than 512MB of RAM :banana:

An A1200 with 4gb of ram (with holes cut out dynamically for rom/io etc) with all of it available as chip ram would be cool.

[wawrzon]

actually this offtopic should be branched out from the genuine thread. i propose to call it "psxphill vs the rest of the world"

[SpaceMonkey]

Given the mission statement:

"Apollo Core 68080 is the natural and modern evolution of latest 68000 processors. It's 100% code compatible, corrects bugs of 680x0 designs and adds on top most of the cool features which were invented the years after."

I can't see why the MMU & FPU would be any different when released, base on what has already been delivered.

So unless you have a Crystal Ball an know how the MMU implementation will perform, how can you comment? Please deal with facts not rumour or interpretation of the facts.

I can see why the MMU is towards the bottom of the priority list as the things in the Amiga world which require it are small.  
Enforcer
Gigamem
Fusion and Shapeshifter emulators (TurboEVD 618 downloads in 19 years Aminet)
Amix or NetBSD    
kickstart to fastmem type tools

Your analogy for the "popular side is not the same as being on the right side" is flawed, so does that make members of Nazis & religious fundamental groups are they on the right side?

Is anything 100% perfect. No but does software 680000 run on the 010,020,030,040,060 in the main yes.

Are BigGunn, Kipper2k and majsta Evil Overlords, that's a bit on the harsh side. Just because someone does agree with your vision of how the universe should be doesn't make them bad people.

I would like to see the 600 vampire V3 with a newer cheaper Cyclone FPGA, SODIMM memory slots, USB, Ethernet & Mini-PCIE. but I understand its not Lego to design and requires time and money which as this is not a commercial business this is not likely the happen any time soon.

The Vampire is the only reason why after 15 years of selling my Amiga 4000, I bought a 600 and wait for that golden ticket (email) from Kipper to purchase one.

[majsta]

@psxphill you could join us and integrate all of that or whatever it is that you are proposing, doors for beta testers, developers are opened. We didn't reject anyone, and everyone is welcomed to the team. If you think that you can do better please join us we are always seeking help. Regarding ASIC if you have tools and knowledge to modify core so we can build ASIC you are also welcomed, also if you have the money or organization to finance that. If there is also something on the cards that you don't like also that could be subject of change. But this topic is not about development of the cards, someone opened it for ebay sales. Just to confirm, this is biggest fraud ever and no one should buy any of those vampire cards because I m paying to the people to promote it, in fact cards don't exists those are 3D models and also all of those videos are fake. Also Apollo core don't exist no one has seen it in action yet. What I m doing is special secret. I m using FPGA, cut it then inside that plastic I put MC68060 and then speed it up by adding special liquid glue. At the moment I have blocked MMU and FPU but there is a way to activate them by few drops of salt water. Tutorial about that I ll wrote next year. Ah and I forgot, with the money I collect from those sales my plan is to buy brand new TV and watch picture in technicolor. Now let's get serious. I ll take a money and buy myself brand new PC with windows OMG I would like to have that. I want TV with possibility to connect it to cable and then use that cable to wash dishes, is there such thing? I have seen somewhere that this could be done. Someone did it back in 2021 I think. It is easy you plugin TV then use aluminum foil as an antenna cable and put it into water. You need to buy special water from my account on ebay, it is the same water like any other but this one is expensive because it is mine and if you want to become yours you need to buy it from me. Then you put that water into TV, and then use cable from copper also you can get it from me on ebay, then you connect that copper to that aluminum foil and then to water and then and only then you can wash dishes with your TV. I can sell you also tutorial for this, but tutorial don't support it all, you need to enter key on the paper and then next page will turn. You can also buy that key from me then you need to send that key to one man so he can read it for you. I can tell you who that man is but you need to pay in advance. :roflmao:

[majsta]

@psxphill you could join us and integrate all of that or whatever it is that you are proposing, doors for beta testers, developers are opened. We didn't reject anyone, and everyone is welcomed to the team. If you think that you can do better please join us we are always seeking help. Regarding ASIC if you have tools and knowledge to modify core so we can build ASIC you are also welcomed, also if you have the money or organization to finance that. If there is also something on the cards that you don't like also that could be subject of change. But this topic is not about development of the cards, someone opened it for ebay sales. Just to confirm, this is biggest fraud ever and no one should buy any of those vampire cards because I m paying to the people to promote it, in fact cards don't exists those are 3D models and also all of those videos are fake. Also Apollo core don't exist no one has seen it in action yet. What I m doing is special secret. I m using FPGA, cut it then inside that plastic I put MC68060 and then speed it up by adding special liquid glue. At the moment I have blocked MMU and FPU but there is a way to activate them by few drops of salt water. Tutorial about that I ll wrote next year. Ah and I forgot, with the money I collect from those sales my plan is to buy brand new TV and watch picture in technicolor. Now let's get serious. I ll take a money and buy myself brand new PC with windows OMG I would like to have that. I want TV with possibility to connect it to cable and then use that cable to wash dishes, is there such thing? I have seen somewhere that this could be done. Someone did it back in 2021 I think. It is easy you plugin TV then use aluminum foil as an antenna cable and put it into water. You need to buy special water from my account on ebay, it is the same water like any other but this one is expensive because it is mine and if you want to become yours you need to buy it from me. Then you put that water into TV, and then use cable from copper also you can get it from me on ebay, then you connect that copper to that aluminum foil and then to water and then and only then you can wash dishes with your TV. I can sell you also tutorial for this, but tutorial don't support it all, you need to enter key on the paper and then next page will turn. You can also buy that key from me then you need to send that key to one man so he can read it. I can tell you who that man is but you need to pay in advance. :rofl:

[kolla]

does that make members of Nazis & religious fundamental groups are they on the right side?

Yeah, the extreme right side :hammer:

[spaceman88]

@psxphill you could join us and integrate all of that or whatever it is that you are proposing, doors for beta testers, developers are opened. We didn't reject anyone, and everyone is welcomed to the team. If you think that you can do better please join us we are always seeking help. Regarding ASIC if you have tools and knowledge to modify core so we can build ASIC you are also welcomed, also if you have the money or organization to finance that. If there is also something on the cards that you don't like also that could be subject of change. But this topic is not about development of the cards, someone opened it for ebay sales. Just to confirm, this is biggest fraud ever and no one should buy any of those vampire cards because I m paying to the people to promote it, in fact cards don't exists those are 3D models and also all of those videos are fake. Also Apollo core don't exist no one has seen it in action yet. What I m doing is special secret. I m using FPGA, cut it then inside that plastic I put MC68060 and then speed it up by adding special liquid glue. At the moment I have blocked MMU and FPU but there is a way to activate them by few drops of salt water. Tutorial about that I ll wrote next year. Ah and I forgot, with the money I collect from those sales my plan is to buy brand new TV and watch picture in technicolor. Now let's get serious. I ll take a money and buy myself brand new PC with windows OMG I would like to have that. I want TV with possibility to connect it to cable and then use that cable to wash dishes, is there such thing? I have seen somewhere that this could be done. Someone did it back in 2021 I think. It is easy you plugin TV then use aluminum foil as an antenna cable and put it into water. You need to buy special water from my account on ebay, it is the same water like any other but this one is expensive because it is mine and if you want to become yours you need to buy it from me. Then you put that water into TV, and then use cable from copper also you can get it from me on ebay, then you connect that copper to that aluminum foil and then to water and then and only then you can wash dishes with your TV. I can sell you also tutorial for this, but tutorial don't support it all, you need to enter key on the paper and then next page will turn. You can also buy that key from me then you need to send that key to one man so he can read it for you. I can tell you who that man is but you need to pay in advance. :roflmao:

Sorry I misspelled your name in the thread title :-(, but I'm happy your getting some return on your investment of time and money. The thread sort of took off in a direction I had not anticipated. Good luck with future sales, I was going to get the 500 version, but I use my A1200 more so I'll probably wait for the A1200 version :-).

PS. If you have some of that special glue/salt water left I'll give it try on my 68010 A500!!

[guest11527]

Sure, and how is the Vampire different in this context? I wrote _variants_, not versions.

I believe I already gave the answer. Here it is again: The original CBM exec versions (or variants, if you prefer) all all based on the same source code, and hence can be maintained jointly. It is, as said, a software maintenance issue, not a general issue.

[wawrzon]

I believe I already gave the answer. Here it is again: The original CBM exec versions (or variants, if you prefer) all all based on the same source code, and hence can be maintained jointly. It is, as said, a software maintenance issue, not a general issue.

ah, here is it.. i already wondered what you are going about on a1k. so the issue is that the features of apollo core need (in your eyes) to be officially supported rather than patched in. and gues who has the access to the source code and who actually claims the right to distribute it.

btw. there is exec replacement, fully open with all the sources. it may be a bit slower in few operations. guess where to look for it

[guest11527]

ah, here is it.. i already wondered what you are going about on a1k. so the issue is that the features of apollo core need (in your eyes) to be officially supported rather than patched in. and gues who has the access to the source code and who actually claims the right to distribute it.

Not really. The problem is to find a way to handle the vampire *despite* the copyright situation of exec. Actually, if you look back, it was also possible to support the 68060 on AmigaOs, even though exec does not support this CPU.

Hence, if done correctly, there is no need to fiddle with the exec sources at all, or to provide alternative exec sources. A processor library is all it takes - provided the CPU has the necessary properties.

[SpaceMonkey]

Not really. The problem is to find a way to handle the vampire *despite* the copyright situation of exec. Actually, if you look back, it was also possible to support the 68060 on AmigaOs, even though exec does not support this CPU.

Hence, if done correctly, there is no need to fiddle with the exec sources at all, or to provide alternative exec sources. A processor library is all it takes - provided the CPU has the necessary properties.

so would be a case of replacing the 040 & 060 libraries with Apollo specific or a new 080 lib