ROTFL....

LoadWB wrote:
And this feedback change... I wonder if that's why my feedback suddenly jumped up by like 50 or so points.  Maybe they're counting multiples from the same people (didn't use it.)  This new policy is a bad idea...

I have to disagree. I'd much rather have a system where I can leave negative feedback for someone who screws me over than one where I _have to_ leave positive feedback or risk no one wanting to do business with me. I have some xeon servers lying around and might sell one or two on ebay soon to offset the cost of buying amiga stuff. I would hate to have people not bid on them because some loser who misrepresented something I bought decided to blast me in the feedback.

There have been several occasions when I bought on ebay and really wanted to leave negative feedback but didn't feel I could. Yesterday was the first time I've _ever_ left negative feedback (and it was deserved, honest, and impersonal, as it should be) and it only happened because of this new policy. I'm happy that other buyers will know to be cautious with the seller in question.

For any market to function properly, consumers need to be able to communicate freely with each other, and that's what the feedback system is for, now. It used to be for coercing people into providing a reference for sellers who bend the rules or misrepresent what they are selling.

I know that it may seem unfair to some people whose scores have fluctated wildly since yesterday, but I think that you will see the ratings stabilize and become much more useful after some time has passed. Also, people are (I hope) smart enough to actually read the feedback left and realize that one upset buyer does not make a bad seller. Anyone who sells enough is bound to have a negative or two, just by chance, but positive feedback left from now on will mean a lot more (to me, anyway) than it did before.

[LoadWB]

I've argued this in another thread, so I'll be brief: sellers need a mechanism by which they can warm other sellers.  Buyers need a mechanism by which they can warm other buyers.  Both need to be able to use this mechanism without fear of retaliation and fraud.  This new system is not the answer, it is the continuation of eBay's legacy of "hands off" approach to how it operates.  It only acts on corporate demands, like DMCA and the like.

But, like any market, this certainly opens the doors for alternative services, like auction or feedback tracking.  I envision a site (which would probably face a legal row from eBay) separate from eBay which would track legitimate complaints against sellers AND buyers.  Doomy inspired this idea.

[swoslover]

I have to say that the new feedback system is ridiculously biased in favour of the buyer.  The detailed seller listings already gave a goodindication of how a seller performs.  

The worst aspect of this is the fact that I had set my seller account to no longer accept bidders with a -1 or below score.  This has had a positive impact on the percentage of non payers I get.

Don't forget that the fear of leaving negative feedback works both ways.  There are plenty buyers I would have felt justified in leaving negative feedback for but held back through fear of a retaliatory negative.

My fear now as someone who sells and works is the attitude of people like BF.  These people seem to forget that there are very few (as a percentage) professional sellers on Ebay.  

I for example sell quite a lot but I do have a full time job as well.  Therefore I can't always go to the post office and clear most of my backlog at the weekend.   This can mean a time from end of auction to buyer receiving of up to a week.  I do not feel this is excessive but I think I may be penalised by those impatient buyers who pester me with emails if they don't have their item within 2 days!!

Apologies that was a little rant!

Edit

Also I do believe that Doomy although he sounds like a prick, does have the right idea with Paypal.  It is best to get the money in your account straight away and with foreign buyers especially it is best to hold for a week or so for reasons I wo'n't get into.

[BR]

swoslover wrote:
My fear now as someone who sells and works is the attitude of people like BF.  These people seem to forget that there are very few (as a percentage) professional sellers on Ebay.  

If you mean BR, I should've been more specific. I understand
and remember that people work and don't have a problem
waiting for a purchase if the seller mentions there will be
a delay in sending it. I do have a problem with paying
and then having to ask about a purchase. If a seller can justify requesting immediate payment, and a buyer pays
immediately, the seller should contact the buyer with details to finalize the deal as soon as he/she can. Not saying anything for 3,4,5 days or more, then responding to an inquiry with "I'll ship it when I can" isn't fair to
the buyer or the sellers that don't do this.
Y-NR
 

[amigadave]

I have to disagree with ALL of those who say this change is too harsh for sellers.  It is almost always the sellers that are screwing the buyers.  The buyer has only one responsibility and that is to PAY and to do it within a reasonable amount of time.  If that is done, the seller should have no recourse against the buyer and should do everything they have agreed to do in provide the product promised in their auction AGAIN in a reasonable amount of time.

I can't tell you how many times I have done my part and paid for an item, only to have the seller wait for my feedback before they will leave theirs, so they are holding me hostage and I cannot leave ACCURATE feedback due to fear of them ruining my feedback score due to my truthful feedback about them.  I made the mistake of leaving NEUTRAL feedback against one seller who had a misleading auction description and he reamed me with a negative retaliation feedback the next day (Colesmedia, if you are reading, you are an A$$H0LE).

Now feedback works the way it should have always been.  Sellers have many other ways to deal with deadbeat bidders.

I usually just refuse to leave any feedback for those kind of sellers recently, but now I am free to be truthful without fear of the retaliation.  Thank you eBay.

P.S. My feedback is close to 99% so you can tell that I do what I say I am going to do concerning auctions.  The rest of the time I am a lying BA$TARD!

[BR]

amigadave wrote:
> The buyer has only one responsibility and that is to PAY >and to do it within a reasonable amount of time.  If that >is done, the seller should have no recourse against the >buyer and should do everything they have agreed to do in >provide the product promised in their auction AGAIN in a >reasonable amount of time.

Well said.

>I can't tell you how many times I have done my part and >paid for an item, only to have the seller wait for my >feedback before they will leave theirs, so they are holding >me hostage and I cannot leave ACCURATE feedback due to fear >of them ruining my feedback score due to my truthful >feedback about them.  

A few didn't wait for me to leave feedback, but the rest
have and I agree with you. You've done your part and if
the seller does his there's no reason to make you go
first and this influences the feedback you leave.

>I made the mistake of leaving NEUTRAL feedback against one >seller who had a misleading auction description and he >reamed me with a negative retaliation feedback the next day >(Colesmedia, if you are reading, you are an A$$H0LE).

I asked eBay about removing retaliatory feedback and they
said your only recourse is to post a response to the bad
feedback, they wont remove it. Did you use this option
when this guy did this to you?

>Now feedback works the way it should have always been.  >Sellers have many other ways to deal with deadbeat bidders.

I don't see the difference between this "advantage" and
going shopping at a retail store. There's a minimum level
of respect or you walk out, don't spend your money it that
store. On Ebay a seller profits from the transaction long before you receive your purchase even if it's shipped
right away on something your buying sight unseen because
photo's don't always show what you want/need to see.
How many of us would shop at Wal Mart if they stopped you
at the front door, took your money then picked out the item
for you? I agree with you, the newer system give's the
buyer something he has almost every place else he shops.

>I usually just refuse to leave any feedback for those kind >of sellers recently, but now I am free to be truthful >without fear of the retaliation.  Thank you eBay.

I was told you have to leave some kind of feedback and
you had 90 days, and now its 60. And the feedback still
wont reflect the number of transaction when both party's
feedback is disallowed by eBay. I didn't know you
could refuse.
Y-NR

[amigadave]

Who told you that feedback was mandatory?  Oh wait.... I remember.  It was Doomy!  He claimed that they would close his account for not leaving feedback and that is why he had to create over, what was it, 5, 6 accounts or more in less than 10 years.  :lol:

Then myself and several others told him that he was full of it as we had never been threatened with any kind of adverse action when we had not left feedback for some of our auction wins.  I guess you didn't catch that part of our replies to him in these forums.  He was not allowed here very long, and for very good reasons.  He is.................insert your own personal attack here that fits your experience with him...............I can't as it is against forum rules to attack anyone personally.  I will say that I laugh every time I think of him, but then I was lucky not to have lost any money to him, like so many others might have.

[Ami_GFX]

The new Ebay policies suck from the seller perspective. Doomy is using Paypal because it is absolutely required now. I like Paypal but I don't like it mandatory. And the new feedback policy really sucks. I've just had a bad experience with a buyer who is demanding his money back including shipping and I've told him even though my auction clearly stated the item was sold as is with no guarantee and no returns, that I would return him everything but the shipping which went to Fedex, he still wants it all and has filed a claim with Paypal for the full amount. He his likely to leave me negative feedback because I'm not budging on not returning the shipping and I won't be able to do a thing about it. What this feedback policy does is favor professional sellers who devote their lives to selling on Ebay but it doesn't favor amateur traders like me who use Ebay to sell things they don't want and buy interesting and rare things like Amiga RTG cards that aren't so easy to find locally.

And I would suspect that a seller like doomy would have made a lot of shill accounts during his career and when he burns this one up, he will have a few more. Wasn't he recently kicked off this forum again for opening multiple accounts? That should say it all. Putting up a photo of some older gentleman as an avatar is just another brick in his ediface of fraud.

[countzero]

is there anything we can do to warn that poor sod who has bid on that a4000 ? the listing is private, so bidders id is not given...

I'll admit that the new feedback rules might be a little bit unfair to sellers, but the problem with the old system was, imho, greater than the problem with the new one.

If a person sells something once in a while, their feedback score is going to be based mostly on the feedback they receive as a buyer, not a seller. If a person sells all the time, and a few buyers leave negative feedback, any reasonable buyer is going to realize that there are bound to be unhappy customers no matter how hard one tries. otoh, if someone screws about, taking upwards of a week to ship on a regular basis and not at the least being up front about it, their feedback will be consistently poor - at least as long as buyers feel safe leaving negative feedback.

I think most people who buy on ebay, especially if they're buying from someone with less than a few hundred transactions in the last year, will easily understand that life is full of ups and downs and sometimes one can't get to  the post office the very next day.

however, if you can't manage to send an email saying 'sorry, my life fell apart and I need a few days to get this out to you' or whatever, then your feedback score on ebay is probably the least of your worries!

As far as protecting sellers goes, it seems to me that a more reasonable solution than allowing sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers would be to either get paypal on board with charge-back protection or drop them in favor of a card and check processor that will (and which will actually perform a capture on the funds in a reasonable amount of time instead of taking a week).

[amigadave]

Well, Doomy may not be a member here, but I assure you he reads every word we write.  Here is a little love note I just received from him.  He is always so colorful with words.

From: George Campbell, aka "Doomy"

"Who told you that feedback was mandatory? Oh wait.... I remember. It was Doomy! He claimed that they would close his account for not leaving feedback and that is why he had to create over, what was it, 5, 6 accounts or more in less than 10 years.
 
[color=ff0000]LIAR!  I never said any of this.[/color]


Then myself and several others told him that he was full of it as we had never been threatened with any kind of adverse action when we had not left feedback for some of our auction wins. I guess you didn't catch that part of our replies to him in these forums.
 
[color=ff0000]You are so full of {bleep}!  This was not what was said at all.[/color]
 
He was not allowed here very long, and for very good reasons. He is.................insert your own personal attack here that fits your experience with him...............I can't as it is against forum rules to attack anyone personally. I will say that I laugh every time I think of him, but then I was lucky not to have lost any money to him, like so many others might have.
 
[color=ff0000]Why do you continue to spread lies and rumors about me?  If you think back to when I was on Amiga Org for a while, I came clean and forced everything out into the open.  NO ONE had any evidence against me or could prove that I did anything wrong.  But I have receipts from the US Post Office proving that I did ship everyone there items that they paid for.  When I started gaining popularity again on Amiga Org, one of the jealous moderators kicked me off for no reason.  Get your facts straight asshole and stop talking {bleep} about me when you do not know what the {bleep} you are talking about!  You sound like a punk when you talk {bleep} about someone who's not there to defend themselves."[/color]

I am not sure it is worth my time and effort to find his old posting here to prove what he wrote about his multiple eBay accounts, he just isn't worth it to me, but I might, just to show what a liar HE is.

Edit: Unfortunately I cannot retrieve his posts as all are erased when his account was deleted.  I am sure that some here will remember his rant about why he needed so many eBay accounts, one of which was that one or more of his accounts had been deleted or closed due to inactivity or lack of leaving feedback, which was utter nonsense.  Reading Wayne's view on Doomy and Red's closing of his last thread, I will refrain from mentioning anything about Mr. George Campbell in the future, as he is not here to defend himself (thank god for that).

[countzero]

ok, I post this here message which came from 'goodwill man' just to give an idea about what kind of person doomy really is to the clueless people or a.org ...

is there anything we can do to warn that poor sod who has bid on that a4000 ? the listing is private, so bidders id is not given...

 
[color=ff0000]
Gee, I wonder why I made the listing private.  Well, it is because of assholes like you.  Why are you talking {bleep} about me on the Amiga Org forum?  Do you even know me?  NO YOU DO NOT, SO SHUT THE {bleep} UP!
 
You people are talking {bleep} about this Doomy guy and it seems like he is not even there to defend himself.  I really feel sorry for the guy.  As far as I am concerned, most of you people at Amiga Org are big-mouth, trouble-making losers!  Oh, btw, at least this Doomy guy is not hiding behind a GMAIL account like you are.[/color][/b]

hiding behind a gmail address ? well you can't even confess who you really are doomy even in {bleep} mail. poor sod. good that you feel sorry for yourself though.

[Xamiche]

Why attack someone via an email for saying stuff on a public forum? Why not have the courage to sign up here and defend yourself? Seems a little cowardly to me.

[BR]

amigadave wrote:
Who told you that feedback was mandatory?  Oh wait.... I remember.  It was Doomy!  He claimed that they would close his account for not leaving feedback and that is why he had to create over, what was it, 5, 6 accounts or more in less than 10 years.  :lol:

This was in an email response from eBay. I let the 90 days go by once and on day 91 I was able to log on, but unable to do anything else until I left feedback. I assumed it worked this way for everyone. 6 accounts in 10 years?!? I think
I'd give up on eBay and put a sign in my front yard. >

Then myself and several others told him that he was full of it as we had never been threatened with any kind of adverse action when we had not left feedback for some of our auction wins.  I guess you didn't catch that part of our replies to him in these forums.  He was not allowed here very long, and for very good reasons.

No, I missed this. Must've been during one of those "to busy
with other stuff to spend much time on the computer" periods.

  He is (in need of singing lessons?) insert your own personal attack here that fits your experience with him...............I can't as it is against forum rules to attack anyone personally.  I will say that I laugh every time I think of him, but then I was lucky not to have lost any money to him, like so many others might have.

I like receiving the benefit of the doubt so I try to
share it, but I do remember someone posting about a motherboard they'd received that had been intentionally
damaged prior to shipping. It's hard to share the benefit of the doubt with someone that could take your money, pack and
ship something in that condition even if they didn't damage
it deliberately. If you cant be mad at someone and still
give them there moneys worth/what they paid for, you
shouldn't be in business. Otherwise warantee's would read:
"I reserve the right to withhold support if you upset me". >
Y-NR

[BR]

[color=ff0000]Why do you continue to spread lies and rumors about me?  If you think back to when I was on Amiga Org for a while, I came clean and forced everything out into the open.  NO ONE had any evidence against me or could prove that I did anything wrong.  But I have receipts from the US Post Office proving that I did ship everyone there items that they paid for.  When I started gaining popularity again on Amiga Org, one of the jealous moderators kicked me off for no reason.  Get your facts straight asshole and stop talking {bleep} about me when you do not know what the {bleep} you are talking about!  You sound like a punk when you talk {bleep} about someone who's not there to defend themselves."[/color]

How does someone gain popularity, and which moderators
are the jealous ones? I may need to know these things
because I may decide to be influencial here someday. >
Y-NR

[ddniUK]

I seem to recall that even Tjlazer a moderator on Doomys forum has been ripped off by Doomy to the tune of an A3000 plus that had an AGA chipset...

Tjlazer - Doomy victim