OMG - he's at it again!

[Damion]

Something I read stated that PayPal will only refund your money from a fradulent sale *if* the seller has money in his PayPal account, otherwise you're SOL. Anyone know how true that is? (I use PayPal out of convenience BTW, but reading that was a little unsettling.)

[TheMagicM]

As for Paypal, you were just unlucky. If you can furnish proof to Paypal thata sale was made, they will go after the buyer, and ifneed be shut his account down. apparently I'm not the one who lacks experience with Paypal (whoever said that).

I'm the one who said you lack Paypal experience.  Plenty of proof was shown but because I shipped it on the 8th day not the 7th day I was not covered by Seller Protection policy so they told me I owe them.  But over the phone they acknowledged that he has the computer and its working.


@sdyates:
No I did not let him know who I was..I just wanted to get the truth out of him.. I didnt lose any money but he did get something for free.  The whole time we talked he made himself out to look like a hardcore Toaster user, knew what he was getting etc.  But after reading his replies to Paypal and on the NY Amiga users group, he didnt know what he had or how to use it.

@-D-
If you're wondering if Paypal can go into your REAL account (ie. bank account) to get money you OWE for whatever reason (like my situation), NO they CANNOT.  Trust me, I "owe" $400  :lol:


The only real way to protect yourself online is to pay with a credit card because usually the CC company will reimburse you if you're ripped off, but it works both ways.
Money orders?  Nah..I was ripped off by a Connecticuit (sp) ebayer selling me a A1200.

http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/5000smiles_bad.htm

[BGary335]

That's your fault then, is it not? If you would've shipped it when you were supposed to, you wouldn't have had a problem.

Money orders are the worst way to pay in my opinion. I like Paypal the best because of its convienence. I buy alot of Buy It Now stuff, and you can't do that without Paypal. And as a seller I would very much prefer Paypal over any other payment method. Using Paypal for selling actually helps me to avoid being taken. When people pay with Paypal, they usually do so instantly. If a few days go by and I haven't been paid, I know I won't be getting paid, and I can take the proper course of action right then and there.

And I beg to differ about Paypal not being able to go into your bank account. They've already done it to me several times. If you use a bank accouunt with Paypal, they WILL take money from it when you owe them.

[Damion]

@-D-
If you're wondering if Paypal can go into your REAL account (ie. bank account) to get money you OWE for whatever reason (like my situation), NO they CANNOT.  Trust me, I "owe" $400  :lol:


The only real way to protect yourself online is to pay with a credit card because usually the CC company will reimburse you if you're ripped off, but it works both ways.
Money orders?  Nah..I was ripped off by a Connecticuit (sp) ebayer selling me a A1200.

http://www.bartonekdragracing.com/webfilez/5000smiles_bad.htm

Thanks for the info. Seems like I may be in a somewhat similar situation to yours, I was promised tracking info on Monday, still nothing today and no response to my email. I payed immediately too, which really annoys me. And according to what I've read on PayPal's site, they will only reimburse me IF the seller has money in his PayPal account.

At this point, I'm just hoping for a happy ending... or I may have to go Charles Bronson on someone's a$$.

[maffoo]

-D- wrote:
Something I read stated that PayPal will only refund your money from a fradulent sale *if* the seller has money in his PayPal account, otherwise you're SOL. Anyone know how true that is? (I use PayPal out of convenience BTW, but reading that was a little unsettling.)

This is true. I paid £510 for a laptop with the £500 Buyer Protection logo on it, which I then didn't receive. I filed a complaint, the seller never replied and I was refunded £480. I didn't pursue the other £20 (I'd written off the other £10 anyway as I only expected £500 cover), I was just glad most of the money was still in the seller's account, but it still bugs me that Ebay advertises £500 protection if you pay through Paypal but it's pot luck as to whether you get even a penny back  :madashell:

[maffoo]

BGary335 wrote:

And I beg to differ about Paypal not being able to go into your bank account. They've already done it to me several times. If you use a bank accouunt with Paypal, they WILL take money from it when you owe them.

I'd be interested to know how legal that is. Surely if they take money from your bank account without explicit permission it's theft? I don't think it's legal even if it's in their terms and conditions.

Not only does it seem like theft, but surely if you can prove that you shipped an item and they take money from you anyway it's aiding and abetting fraud?

[TheMagicM]

That's your fault then, is it not? If you would've shipped it when you were supposed to, you wouldn't have had a problem.

So by shipping late it entitles the buyer to defraud Paypal?  Thats what you're basically saying, you're not a certain "Judge" from New York are you? :lol:  It doesnt matter anyway because I no longer accept Paypal and I did get my money.

Of course you can BUY-IT-NOW without Paypal, I do it all the time and offer my bidders the same.

And I beg to differ about Paypal not being able to go into your bank account. They've already done it to me several times. If you use a bank accouunt with Paypal, they WILL take money from it when you owe them.

Well they sure didnt take a penny from me...but if that is the case, now I'm really glad I dont take Paypal.

[BGary335]

No, but it doesn't entitle you to any protection either.

And it its extremely legal for Paypal to take money from your account. In essence, when you add a bank account to your Paypal account, it's collatoral. By doing this, you guarantee that even if Paypal has to go into your bank acoount all of your buying and selling expenses will be paid. It's Paypal and Ebay's way of knwoing that if you happen to owe money and have none in your Paypal account, they will still get what they are owed because they can remove it irectly from your bank account. It's as legal as a loan company needing collateral for a home or car loan. In essence it works exactly the same way.

[Cyberus]

I noticed this site a couple of years ago, this was before ebay bought them...but I don't think they've really changed:
http://www.paypalwarning.com/

[TheMagicM]

Cyberus:

Yea, there's a few out there.. Cashiers Checks/Money Orders only.. the rest can just go bid on another auction

[maffoo]

BGary335 wrote:
And it its extremely legal for Paypal to take money from your account. In essence, when you add a bank account to your Paypal account, it's collatoral. By doing this, you guarantee that even if Paypal has to go into your bank acoount all of your buying and selling expenses will be paid. It's Paypal and Ebay's way of knwoing that if you happen to owe money and have none in your Paypal account, they will still get what they are owed because they can remove it irectly from your bank account. It's as legal as a loan company needing collateral for a home or car loan. In essence it works exactly the same way.

I'm not so sure. Loan companies are quite strictly regulated and AFAIK they can't dip into a bank account to cover unpaid debts (unless there's prior agreement, eg. a direct debit for a credit card.) Are there any lawyers on this site who could clarify what rights Paypal has under the law?

[BGary335]

There's no strict regulations like that. If you default on a loan payment, they can take whatever thay have to pay your obligation. It pretty much works that way with Paypal. Say the end of the month comes and Ebay sends you an invoice for yourmonthly sellers fee's. If they go to take it out of your Paypal account, but the money isn't there, they can then take it out of the bank account you've associated with it. Believe me, they've done it to me a couple of times.

[TjLaZer]

I recently bought an item on ebay for $250.  It was faulty.  Seller claimed she would refund the $ but was broke until her next payday (30 days away!!)  She said I can just junk the part and not send it back. I said fine, I expect a refund at that time.  Knowing ebay/paypal only allows like 45 days from time of sale I knew I was cutting it close.  When that 30 days arrived I emailed and did not get a reply.  I filed a claim with Paypal.  They said the max they could refund was $200 minus a $50 deductible/fee.  Damn.  Well luckily the seller emails me the next day saying she wants the part back now and then she will refund it!  I said hell no I expect a refund as agreed and THEN I will gladly mail the piece of crap back to you!  She said NO.  Then she said I will refund you $100 then the rest after I get it back.  I get $100 and I say no way Jose I expect the rest as we agreed a month ago.  Never heard from her again.  I comply with Paypals requirements (email correspondence, letter from shop that specializes in part that tested it, etc) and got $150 from them like 8 weeks later...  I got lucky.

On any large mentary item I would really wait ~10 days or so after getting a paypal payment unless you want to get screwed like TheMagicM did.

[BGary335]

I agree with you very much. I've gotten screwed several times recently with high $ items, but luckily I was able to clear up those situations without losing any money.

[sdyates]

I just bought a AMac II+ item and hope all goes well!

At least it is only US$30.00.