Registering Interest for AmigaOne X1000

[billyfish]

I'll rather post it to "comparing MorphOS on quad core G5 vs AmigaOS 4 on dual core X1000" thread which would make as much sense, i.e. none.

I'm glad that we agree that the benchmark comparison has a sense rating of none as I explain below...

I know it's hard to accept that 5+ years old apple HW can beat your favorite, and is a lot cheaper, and is more easily available, and has better support and repair possibilities...

Piru, the X1000 software is still unoptimised. You know as well as I do that the benchmark comparisons aren't worth the pixels they're drawn with if you're comparing a debug-type build with an optimised one.

[OFF TOPIC]
I once built a large scale molecular simulation and after running and ananlysing it, managed to get a 900% increase, by changing all the distance comparisons to work in squared distances rather than Euclidean. I.e. getting rid of sqrt () from getting the distance from A to B worked wonders.
[/OFF TOPIC]

My point being compiler support and algorithm optimisation can make *HUGE* differences and given that they've said that it's currently unoptimised means that there is a large scope for improvement.


I'd suggest that a more accurate representation *as the software stands at the minute* would be

1. Code running on a single core on the PowerMacs is probably slightly quicker a single core of the X1000.

2. The memory access speeds on the X1000 are much faster than on the PowerMac.

3. The graphics card capabilities of the x1000 are much ahead of the Mac Mini.

4. All these are subject to change as OS4 and MorphOS code gets more optimised for these systems.

Would you agree with this?

[itix]

I do have more the impression that the sole existence of some people is to criticize anything related to OS4.
But then I am a weird person.

Didnt you piss off OS4 core developers on that Timberwolf thread at AWN...?

But really, what is wrong with some people. Someone asks how much AmigaOne costs and TMHGM replies with it costs as much as 30 used PowerMacs. Then some usual suspects go berserk but dont bother to tell how much it really costs.

To me it seems that some people are applying double standards here.

[spirantho]

The point is that measuring in PowerMacs is pointless. You may as well say it costs 7,000 grapefruit - a grapefruit can run OS4 just as well as a Powermac, after all.

The problem is that every time - and I mean every time - someone mentions OS4, the thread gets derailed by the same people with the same unrelated posts.

We know MOS runs on Powermacs. We get that.
We also get that the X1000 costs a lot more than 10-year-old Powermacs. We get that too.
We also get that the X1000 runs AmigaOS 4 which Powermacs don't.

But do the MOS people get the fact that some people want to run AmigaOS 4 and not MOS?

MorphOS is a great piece of work, but it doesn't belong in a thread about the X1000 - at all.

[Piru]

MorphOS is a great piece of work, but it doesn't belong in a thread about the X1000 - at all.

Why not?

[billyfish]

I'm providing a critical view in a community where criticism aren't allowed, consumer awareness about better alternatives in a community with a long tradition of shifting semi-functional products to gullible trade mark followers at an overprice, and rational thinking in a community where all rationality and logic seemingly left over a decade ago. "The usual suspects" always come moaning abou this, as we see in this thread as well.

Let's look at the "provocative" picture again, that made some of them cough their Kool-Aid all over their Boing-Ball branded keyboard from Amigakit:

provocative, as in titillating? I can't say an orgy with 30 power macs really does it for me :-)

What provokes them aren't the fact that this is roughly how many (depending on your search abilities) PPC NG computers you can get for *the same* amount of money as one single A1X1K system. No, what provokes them is the fact that someone has the nerve to actually point this out!

WTF?!? Do you genuinely believe that criticism, constructive or otherwise, isn't allowed isn't allowed on this forum???

Billyfish, I will keep enlighten the world about things like this, about the alternatives you can choose instead. Don't like this? Well, too bad...

But you bang on about it in every single os4-related thread. Do you genuinely think you become more persuasive by repeating something over and over again? I absolutely concede that there's a very different price point between an x1000 and a morphos-enabled mac. You mention the alternatives you can choose instead, the point is if someone *still* chooses to get the X1000, that's their prerogative. Why it bothers you so much is just plain bonkers to me. In the same way I can't imagine sitting here fuming that somebody has decided to buy 5 country and western albums even though I said I didn't like that music, HOW DARED THEY!! ;-)

[itix]

The point is that measuring in PowerMacs is pointless. You may as well say it costs 7,000 grapefruit - a grapefruit can run OS4 just as well as a Powermac, after all.

If I say it costs 3000 dollars are you going to argue dollars cant run OS4?

The problem is that every time - and I mean every time - someone mentions OS4, the thread gets derailed by the same people with the same unrelated posts.

This thread started derailing right after post number 2. Wonder who were they?

We know MOS runs on Powermacs. We get that.

Thank you repeating it again. We know. drHirudo told us.

We also get that the X1000 costs a lot more than 10-year-old Powermacs. We get that too.

How much it costs? Is it really so difficult to answer it? Is it so difficult that after 10 offtopic posts including Amiga.org moderator I had to tell how much it costs?

We also get that the X1000 runs AmigaOS 4 which Powermacs don't.

That is great. I am not going to buy PowerMac nor AmigaOne.

But do the MOS people get the fact that some people want to run AmigaOS 4 and not MOS?

MorphOS is a great piece of work, but it doesn't belong in a thread about the X1000 - at all.

None of my business. AmigaKit is selling and advertising AmigaOne here. Someone asks what it does, what it costs, whatever and we answer. Yup, tmhgm loves MorphOS, is evangelising here but you dont have to feel so insecure whenever MorphOS is mentioned on this site. Maybe annoying to you sometimes but the best counter argument is facts.

I know I would write to Commodore USA threads what you never would do.

[billyfish]

@billyfish


Thanks, I enjoyed that. Funniest thing in the entire thread, and anyone who read the entire thread will appreciate the competition for laughs contained within

It's a scary day when *IM* marvelling at the stupidity and immaturity on display

Thank you! /me takes a bow :-)

[takemehomegrandma]

Where are you getting your "20-30" buyers numbers from, TMHG?

20 is the bounty divided by $3,000 (I wrote 30 to cover all eventualities since I can't remember whether the bounty was in Euro or Dollars, or the exact bounty target for that matter).

[billyfish]

Having a motherboard only option would not only lower the cost (face it, they *are* making a premium on the components - that's only basic business sense), but would have actually got me on the sign up sheet regarding pre-orders if the price on the mobo was acceptable.  

This is an interesting point, I agree that having a motherboard-only option would be a good idea. Hypothetically speaking, given the price for the pre-built system, what price would the motherboard need to be approximately for you to want to go for it? I wonder if there were enough people of a similar view to you whether Trevor and co might be tempted to offer that option.

[jorkany]

Instead of playing usual pissing contest why not just say what it costs, what it does and that is it? You dont have to care what Mac costs of what MorphOS does. TMHGM didnt even mention MorphOS in his post. So please stop your witch hunt and learn to read.

itix brings up a very valid and on-topic point here about the costs. How can one "register  interest" when vital information is not available? How is registering interest even useful as a measuring stick when there's missing information that when revealed later could reduce interest? What's the big secret now anyway, there's already been one run. The whole thing is just silly!

[drHirudo]

None of my business. AmigaKit is selling and advertising AmigaOne here. Someone asks what it does, what it costs, whatever and we answer. Yup, tmhgm loves MorphOS, is evangelising here but you dont have to feel so insecure whenever MorphOS is mentioned on this site. Maybe annoying to you sometimes but the best counter argument is facts.

Oh, well, I get it now. The fact that there are still businesses in Amiga land that SELL something, annoys the MOS fanboys, because there is not a single business left, dealing with the amateur wanna-be OS called MOS. So they feel the need to pollute every thread and raise their arguments about the PowerMacs, how they are fast, reliable, cheap, easy to replace and so on.

Well, my Sony Vaio can emulate classic Amiga much better and more faster than the Minimig, but I don't post in Minimig related threads about that fact.

The same for the Turbo Chameleon 64. For the price it costs you can buy complete machine with monitor and have money left for beer. But I don't post in Chameleon related threads either.

The Minimig and the Chameleon are nice little devices that do well what they are built for. Even if relatively expensive, they are cool, they are excellent purchases for the people who are enjoying their hobby and that is more important, than buying 30 crap macs that you will not find a good use for.

[takemehomegrandma]

So no, youre not "informing people", youre doing damage and making the amiga scene appear as screwed up as it really is.

I simply pointed out the obvious lunacy in trying to shift 2007 level HW at $3,000 a piece (by showing what you can get as an alternative), and then you get upset with *me* for making things "look crazy", instead of being upset by the craziness itself! :crazy: Yeah...  :lol:

Buying ONE A1X1K for $3,000, or buying THIRTY computers of roughly A1X1K performance for the same amount of money, or buying one computer at 1/30th of the cost — It's a free world and people with no respect for moneys value are free to make a $3,000 bonfire if they think it's a smart thing to do (I don't however, and in this free world I reserve the right to suggest to them how the money could be better spent). Don't blame *me* for "making the amiga scene appear as screwed up as it really is", I was merely pointing out alternatives to $3,000 bonfires. Everyone with a brain sober enough from Kool-Aid will see the screwed up situation in the first option (or even the first *two* options), and only those who don't can possibly be "provoked" by my picture anyway...

[itix]

@drHirudo

Thank you for registering your interest for AmigaOne X1000.

[Iggy]

O...amateur wanna-be OS called MOS...

We get it Dr. Troll , you don't like Macs and MorphOS.
Its funny, as a MorphOS user I can still exchange pleasant messages with OS4 developer Steve Solie, but I have read verbal diarrhea like this from trolls like you.
As we still have plenty of Pegasos machines available on the used market and have the advantage of being able to use low cost hardware from Apple I'm not particularly worried about not having new hardware.
In fact in some benchmarks, my ten year old Powermac outperforms an X1000.
In others its not far behind.

And if I did purchase an X1000, I'd have a much more even handed response to both camps then you would appear to have.

[Piru]

the X1000 software is still unoptimised.

This claim keeps resurfacing, but I haven't seen any valid data to back this up. I have a feeling this is the same old claim that has always been thrown around when MorphOS has beaten AmigaOS4. If you follow this line of reasoning AmigaOS4 is still unoptimized, not only X1000 but classics, AmigaONE GE/XE/Micro, Sam440 and Sam460, too.

I'd suggest that a more accurate representation *as the software stands at the minute* would be

1. Code running on a single core on the PowerMacs is probably slightly quicker a single core of the X1000.

Depends on the speed of the PowerMac CPU of course.

2. The memory access speeds on the X1000 are much faster than on the PowerMac.

This is true.

3. The graphics card capabilities of the x1000 are much ahead of the Mac Mini.

This makes little practical difference as there are no 3D drivers for the new cards. MorphOS is massively ahead in 3D.

4. All these are subject to change as OS4 and MorphOS code gets more optimised for these systems.

I don't see much performance improvements coming from code optimizations at this point, at least for MorphOS. MorphOS has been fairly optimal for years.

Now, it might be that OS4 is still lagging behind in numerous ways but considering it has been way over 10 years now I can't see how it would change anytime soon.

[drHirudo]

you don't like Macs and MorphOS.

Wrong. I have a Mac and I want it to be able to run MOS. It's not my fault that MOS is not available for PowerBooks. MacOS X runs on it.

Its funny, as a MorphOS user I can still exchange pleasant messages with OS4 developer Steve Solie,

I exchange messages with devepers for MOS, AmigaOS 4, IOS, VIC-20 etc... They have nothing against me for using AmigaOS 4, neither do I have anything against them for not using AmigaOS 4.

As we still have plenty of Pegasos machines available on the used market and have the advantage of being able to use low cost hardware from Apple I'm not particularly worried about not having new hardware.

Well, I prefer new hardware over old. I can not replace my old Mac, but on other hand I replaced my Dell Laptop with Sony laptop, because the Dell began overheating and freezing. Now I can sport on i7-2670QM that beats every PowerMac available, performance-wise. But that's not stopping me working on my AmigaOne. One month ago I had trouble with my microAmiga though. I had to replace the battery, after seven years of usage

In fact in some benchmarks, my ten year old Powermac outperforms an X1000.
In others its not far behind.

In fact my AmigaOne outperforms the Turbo Chameleon 64. Your point being?