MorphOS 3.0 released - PowerBook G4 support and new pricing

[Crumb]

Sure, just rant about something else instead of actually responding to my argument.

I'm just saying I'm interested in Amiga apps. For me it doesn't matter if your Linux box runs 1020102 GTK crashy apps. I prefer to run Amiga software and that's why I'm interested on Amiga-like OSes. Binary,source&philosophy incompatible with AmigaOS means it's not interesting to me. I prefer to use any Amiga paint package instead of the horrible gimp.

I find CLIs useful a lot, not only in Linux, but also MorphOS, Amiga and Windows. I don't know what constitutes "normal" use, but unless it's limited to copying files from the root of one folder to another, named/sized/dated so that they show up in order, using simple CLI oneliners can save you a lot of hair if you know the tools of your system well.

I mean that I prefer to write mails using SimpleMail or Yam rather than sendmail or using pop/smtp commands through telnet. I prefer to use subversion GUIs instead of cli versions. I prefer to use apps with GUIs integrated, with ARexx ports etc instead of cli apps with a badly written GTK gui that are not up to date with cli version and since the linux GUIs are usually badly written you have to edit configuration files scattered through the filesystem tree because unix developers simply are not capable of thinking in alternative ways. All distros are mostly the same with the exception of a few package installers. If you have chosen some BeOS derivative like Haiku at least it has some Amiga spirit, but unix has been the same since the 70s and linux guys simply cloned it and published it with another license but it's not amiga-like, it's anti-intuitive even if you dress it with some fancy installers and skins because when you want to do something slightly different everything crashes and burns. Having good CLI is good? sure! should CLI be an excuse to avoid building apps with decent GUIs? no!. BTW, all these Linux GUI toolkits even the ones presented as "light" are usually quite resource hungry and slow. I prefer using visual diff tools instead of cli ones. I prefer managing all my project files using a gui instead of handling them through cli. I prefer to refactorize classes using GUIs instead of using find and sed to replace names. I prefer to debug graphically instead of using gdb.

As I have said Linux GUIs are usually crap because they claim you can do much better with command line, but it's a bad excuse since they are not capable of producing decent GUIs with access to all program features.

Anyway, I'm interested on Amiga software so I don't care much about what linux distro you run on your laptop because it doesn't run amiga software and has nothing to do with amiga, crap directory structure, crap guis that break and force the user to edit config files by hand instead of default basic gui options... and bad software too, if you talk about productivity Windows runs rings aroung linux. If you are interested on amiga at all you'll want to use Amiga software I guess. And for me that means using AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS... linux is not amiga. Haiku looks nice and doesn't stink like unix.

[hbarcellos]

About MorphOS team, I'm not questioning how hard it is to create a driver, I'm questioning the model that those guys are following. In a good way:
- They're doing extreme programing there for almost nothing. I'm almost sure that the license price would be unable to cover 10% of the hours they took to put everything in place.
- We (the community) and some specialized websites like slashdot, are complaining about missing features and some bugs. Mostly due to our anxiety to use a "modern" and "complete" Amiga-like OS.
  ==> Ex: lack of wifi is really bad for a notebook these days. People waited for a long time to get their hands on 3.0, so, they got Angry. But we know we all rushed them for a release, and we all know how hard it should have been to release it.
See, everyone is right.

The community (all together) must think a way to make this -hobby- something barely profitable to the ones working on it, or a way to caught the attention of more developers. We cannot be restricted just to the Amiga community.

I also don't know the answer, but I'm sure there must be a way out there. Otherwise, who knows how long it would take to MorphOS to be abandoned sw?

*PS* Closing the forums at morphzone is really non-sense!

[buzz]

I may well have used morphos more had the licence and model been different. Have had a ppc mac mini here, currently not doing a lot too. I think there are still some devs who could contribute to something like this had things been different. I contribute back to a bunch of software I use, but mostly on linux - as I found that more compatible with what I wanted from an OS (and in terms of licence etc).

[Fats]

There are some API extensions in OS 3.9 which made it to OS 4.0. Mostly AVL stuff in Exec and some Workbench extensions. AROS and MorphOS on the other hand dont implement 3.9 API.

AROS also has the AVL stuff and probably some of other OS4 extensions. We also have some of the MOS extensions.

greets,
Staf.

[saimon69]

Hmm? I am well aware AROS does not need Linux, and frankly there is nothing wrong with Linux. However, when I used it about 2 years ago, I found the interface sugar-coated, and it generally did not stimulate much interest to me. But my point is that AROS has much less influence from the Amiga side compared to MorphOS. MorphOS and MUI/Ambient are both quite mature GUIs, very much like Aqua on the mac, simple, visually appealing and customizable. I just got a bad taste from AROS and the community as a whole. When I asked them for help on some issues I had transitioning from Amithlon's 3.9 shell, they sat and trolled me for a whole page of a thread. Idiotic to the max. I really have no need for a community project that reminds me of 4chan's userbase.

It was before or after the papercuts (last year)? Plus, there will be the alternative of scalOs once the ABIv1 transition will be done; however, if you can point me to the thread on a-e will give it a look.

Saimon69

[OlafS3]

I do not understand what happened and why because I am also a member of the Aros community, (mostly :-) ) very politely and saw other members also very politely and helpful. All are human so perhaps something has gone wrong and escalated but I saw similar things in ALL camps. So saying most of the Aros community is not curteous is not only wrong but also a little offending to me.

[OlafS3]

"am discounting AROS because it has many, many underpinnings of Linux"

to say Aros has less in common with 3.1. than f.e. AOS is a little funny. I am working on a distribution that is based on Aros 68k and lots of software runs on it without changes. How do you explain that?

[kedawa]

To this end, it basically follows the rules many etats-unidans place on politics: if you do not vote, you cannot criticize. Applying it to MorphOS, you get: "If you aren't using it, you cannot complain.

So you want the forums to draw inspirations from idiotic political principles?
Why not just take it to its logical conclusion?
The only people allowed to criticize or compare OS's must own MOS, AOS4, an expanded classic Amiga, and an AROS box.  Nobody else may contribute.

[smerf]

Hi,

@dreamcast270mhz,

Let the truth be known!!!

 [MorphOS has transcended the classic Amiga, while retaining WarpOS compatibility and adapting to more recent hardware. All Amiga forever acts is as a "Franken Amiga" reanimating the original OS on modern PCs. It therefore is a glorified DOSBOX for the Amiga platform. Also, ever since MorphOS, when i do use it, allows for moutning of floppies and images i can move beyond the contrains of floppies, which I have always hated. When I make some programs for MOS and Amiga, I plan on releasing them via digital distribution. ]

Let us examine the preceding paragraph as stated by dreamcast270mhz

MorphOS has transcended the classic Amiga, while retaining WarpOS compatibility and adapting to more recent hardware.

Do we really mean to say that MorphOS has emulated the Classic Amiga while retaining WarpOS compatibility and adapting to older abandoned hardware by the Mac community that only some Mac fanboys are using today because of their classic nature (you know sort of like the Amiga).

 All Amiga forever acts is as a "Franken Amiga" reanimating the original OS on modern PCs. It therefore is a glorified DOSBOX

We can also say "All MorphOS acts is as a "Franken Amiga" reanimating the original OS on MACS. It therefore is a glorified MACbox.

Your last paragraph moves you to the ignorance bin, Amiga Forever has moved from the constraint of floppy's to hard drives, CD's, DVD's, double layer DVD's, USB thumb drives, etc. and uses a new digital compressed storage routine. Where have you been? living in the past Mac world. I have news for you MAC's don't use PPC processor's anymore, they have moved up to a newer dual core INTEL processor. Did you know that?

Now moving original Amiga programs over is rather hard, VIP is really only floppy based, you can't get around it because back when the program was made, floppies was the only cheap medium they had. This accounts for all earlier programs made for the Amiga.

Now actually it is you Mac fans coming to an Amiga website talking about how great your MAC emulator is.

As far as costs "How much are they charging for an incomplete MorpOS package?
You know that MorphOS package that is still being developed?

Amiga Forever only charges me $29 since I bought the original for $49. I gladly pay the price of the new AF's only to show my support and have PC's available because unlike owning a MAC I can get PC's rather cheap, and they have outstanding hardware compared to your "mini mac standards of "more recent hardware" that was abandoned by Apple about 5-8 years ago.

Talk about Chaos, great game but "you lose"

Been with Amiga 2 weeks after it first arrived, great machine for the time, my hobby now is hot rodding Amiga's and seeing how far I can take them.

I guess you can say that about your MAC's.  How much power can you get out of a MAC using modern day PPC's.   LOL!

smerf

[smerf]

Hi,

@kedawa,

OK, I will admit it, I have all the emulators out there and use them, I have the original MorphOS, that I have used on my PPC 240 MHz blizzard Amiga 1200, it loaded up, but couldn't do anything with it. It was a really early version, I thought it was doing pretty good while they wrote for Amiga PPC cards, MorphOS continued development but commited the greatest crime to a real Amiga user, they went to the dark side, where I remember a certain individual named Steve saying "Amiga -- oh you mean that weak underpowered game computer by Commodore"  come on we are talking about real computers here, and then another person named Bill saying "Yes computers that can operate a business"

Anyhow before I get to off track, I have used every OS that has come out for the Amiga, and I am even thinking of breaking my vow of never to use a MAC just to see how great the new MorphOS really is.

But then do I need to waste $250 dollars on old obsolete equipment that is not worth upgrading, or should I waste another amount of money paying for an OS that really isn't going anywhere?

$250 today can buy me a real good video card for a PC, or an upgrade for my AMD processor based PC, or maybe even a mediator card for my Amiga 1200 PPC based machine.

Can't see wasting money just to try out MorphOS, can you?

Chaos has many meanings. Intelligent discussions is how you perceive it.

Loonies are everywhere

smerf


Just been to the MorphOS site, no where on their site does it say that they are trying to make a new Amiga OS. The only thing they mention is Commodore. Interesting.

Anyhow not to spoil all the fun, I would like to thank all the developers of AROS, MorphOS, OS 4.1 etc. for their efforts, sometimes even I forget that these people are programming a new OS, they need our help, if they would put donation jingles on their site, maybe it would ease the pain a little. (Now you all know how CUSA feels).. We need to get together and support someone or something, we need to concentrate our efforts, for once we need to come together and support something, we need a track, but first we need to suggest which path to take, agree to it, get everyone together and follow that path. (God, I can't believe I am saying this, I may have to break down and buy a MAC depending on the vote).

Anyhow thanks to all you programmers out there. Keep trucking and not *ucking. I will shut my mouth after this, post on all OS's because the programmers and community need it.

[Digiman]

I was under the impression that OS4 was the only one of the three that actually used the OS 3 sources, though...? So it seems fair enough to have it as a continuation of the OS 3 line, while the others fork off (I wonder if the "Amiga.org censorship bot" will censor that).
The fact that OS 4 runs on different hardware is irrelevant, it does share its roots with OS3, and is the only one which does.

Clearly AROS and MOS have reverse engineered whatever OS4 team used from OS3.x

It comes down to which host machine you're prepared to buy, if Macs don't make you puke you can run MOS however Mac is worse than Atari computers and of no interest to me from 1984--> as XP is better than OSX too thanks. Apple computers are for clueless nobs FACT.

I'm not buying an X1000 or £1000 SAM so really, like many other people worldwide, only AROS is of any interest

£300 for a $hit half decade old powerbook 1.67ghz? lol no *pass*

[jj]

Clearly AROS and MOS have reverse engineered whatever OS4 team used from OS3.x

It comes down to which host machine you're prepared to buy, if Macs don't make you puke you can run MOS however Mac is worse than Atari computers and of no interest to me from 1984--> as XP is better than OSX too thanks. Apple computers are for clueless nobs FACT.

I'm not buying an X1000 or £1000 SAM so really, like many other people worldwide, only AROS is of any interest

£300 for a $hit half decade old powerbook 1.67ghz? lol no *pass*

To be fair there is s much bollocks in that post I just don't know where to start

[takemehomegrandma]

if Macs don't make you puke you can run MOS however Mac is worse than Atari computers Yada Yada Yada

Mac computers, just like any other computers, are made with various components soldered onto a PCB, that's what Mac's are, that's what every other computer on the planet is.

The minute you install MorphOS on a Mac, it stops being a Mac and turns into a MorphOS box. It's the OS that defines the HW. You aren't using Mac then, you are using MorphOS, the furthest evolved, most full-featured, most stable and best Amiga compatible Next Generation Amiga system in existence on this planet!

[itix]

@Fats

Ah, thanks.

[takemehomegrandma]

I just wanted to stop for a while and reflect about what actually made it to the 3.0 release, and what didn't, based on early communications about MorphOS future from autumn 2011. This was the list presented at Alchimie 111111 (translation mainly by google translate):

GREEN = Things they planned for the 3.0 release
ORANGE = Things planned for later 3.x releases

MorphOS 3.x
Top new features planned for future versions 3.x:

• Support the PowerBook G4 (models 5.6 to 5.9).
• AGP transfers on platforms that support it (macs).
• WIFI drivers and integration with the TCP / IP: Atheros5000, Airport, ...
  
• Drivers SATA and SCSI (Symbios) functional on PowerMac G4.
• Faster 3D drivers, VBO, medium r300 (Radeon 9500 to 9800).
• Integration layer Firewire Helios.[/COLOR]
  
• Improved systems components: MUI, Ambient, Multiview, HDConfig, mount.library, ...
• New applications: FTP / SFTP, CD / DVD burning software, new PDF reader, modern text editor, ...
• File systems: NTFS3G (write), SMBFS (64bit), SSFS, IceFS, ...
  

[/COLOR]
Support for PowerBook
Many challenges are related to the support of the platform:
[LIST=10]

• Touchpad with gestures (scrolling, right, ...).
• Special keys of the keyboard (Fn, brightness keys, ...).
• Support for various screens (15 ", 17" and variations thereof ...)
• PCMCIA port
• WIFI drivers: Atheros5k (via Cardbus), Airport
  
• WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant) in collaboration with AROS.
• Sensor monitoring: fan speed, battery level, temperature, ...

• 3D driver for R300 (Radeon 9700 for PowerBook).[/COLOR]
  
  • Energy management control of different components depending on the sensors and user preferences (processor speed, low power mode the graphics card, disable the modem, network,[/COLOR] brightness, backlight keyboard, hard drive standby, ...) .
    
  
  Drivers
  Apart from specific drivers PowerBook, drivers on other machines will be supported or updated integrated:
  [LIST=19]
  
  • Symbios SATA drivers on PowerMac G4
  • AGP transfers (4x,> 1GB / s), useful when vram swap, video playback, 3D, ...
  • WIFI Atheros 5k driver (PCI)
  • Faster 3D drivers, VBO, support for r300 (Radeon 9500 to 9800)
  • Helios firewire drivers[/COLOR]
    
  
  File Systems
  An effort was made to the adaptation of standard file systems:
  
  • A port of FUSE to make porting some open source filesystems easier.
  • NTFS3g (writing enabled)
  • SSHFS (SFTP transparent)[/COLOR]
    
  • SMBFS (64bit)
  • ICE-FS[/COLOR]
    
  
  System Components
  [LIST=24]
  
  • Ambient: a transparent panel, sub-docks and plugins, video thumbnails, ...
    
  • MUI: deactivating effect improved, rendering the framework of the active object configurable tabs Reorderable, ...
  • Multiview: integration of more new features and formats
  • Integration WPA/WPA2 (wpa_supplicant), indicators, configuration, ...
  • HDConfig / mount.library: better management of mac partition tables
  • Cairo / Pixman / Fontconfig supplied with the system
  • MagicBeacon: visual notifications on different types of events (new mail, download finished, dvd inserted, ...), highly configurable (contrib?)
  • Grunch: package manager (contrib?)
  
  Applications
  The application domain has not been neglected:
  
  • Jalapeno: CD / DVD burning software and to create ISO, controllable from Ambient, ...
  • VPDF: A modern PDF reader compatible with multiple views, based on the  Poppler engine.
  • Transfer: FTP and SFTP client, multiple views.
  • Scribble: Text/SourceCode editor, based on Scintilla. Project management, autocompletion, context-sensitive help, syntax highlighting for different languages, ...
  • Odyssey Web Browser: with a recent Webkit, adding new features, ...
  [/COLOR]
  
  In hindsight, it's clear that not everything made it to the 3.0 release. On the other hand, some other things that wasn't planned or expected, did make it! :)
  
  The energy management components made the Powerbook support much more solid, this was a pleasant surprise. The PFS3 file system was also a surprise, at least for me. I know it would eventually find its way into MorphOS, but didn't expect it in 3.0 already. MorphOS is getting quite a substantial collection of file systems now, and I'm looking forward to Ice-FS as well. Been wanting to try that one out for a long time, sounds very promising, but somehow I have never actually done it, don't know why. Also looking forward to SSHFS! :)
  
  I've read somewhere that the next release, MorphOS 3.1, will mostly be fixing/correcting things they overlooked, but I also believe there could be some new stuff added as well, and that it will be released quite soon. The Atheros Wifi has been said (in various forums) to be quite far developed for instance. I'll guess we'll now in a relatively short period of time.
  
  There has also been hints about upcoming support for iBooks (don't ask me why, because the Powerbooks are so much better, and aren't really that expensive after all), but if that happens, it won't be until MorphOS 3.2 at the earliest.
  
  Rock on, MorphOS! :D

[Duce]

Would you please put down your cheerleader's pom pom's, TMHG?

We get it, you're a fan.  It's an OS.  We don't need it crammed up our asses by you nonstop.

It's a general Amiga forums and all you do is spam your view of the divine future while **** talking the alternatives.  Enough, it's worse than the C-USA threads.