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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« on: April 17, 2012, 07:09:03 AM »
Quote from: Transition;688947
Please note the CEO of CommodoreUSA sent us the answers to the interview @ 11:51 PM EST. The amount of text was too large to post as a news item so I had to get help posting this. Link to full interview listed below.

http://www.discreetfx.com/CEOCommodoreUSAInterview.pdf

Don’t ever assume anything. (Barry)

Its evangelistic, love affair (yet calling critics on virge of psychotic) and no, no, no we`ll do it as we plan thing.
At least NO answers are short and straight. And like every good fairy tale, ends with much love.
Story about Commodore always having its own software is the best.

Only surprise is why discreetfx would be hosting such non-sense

Or the best quote to use back is

Quote
I see you are under certain delusions and will leave it at that.
and
Quote
The 30 million dollar budget was an invention of the advertising
agency we are no longer affiliated with.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:33:15 AM by vox »
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 10:30:41 AM »
Quote from: J-Golden;688969
Read through most of it and found it to be quite enlightening.  I don't think I'd be getting one any time soon, but I now at least understand where CommodoreUSA is coming from, their mind set and what they are trying to achieve.


Most of what was already known to the public. Beside known mindset and strategy that is just clearer now, insulting thing to me is "observation that Amiga is neither software or hardware, but (barry`s) project and vision" and thus that "CUSA is taking Amiga forward". Amiga is Classic machines and machines that can run AmigaOS natively, just like for example its such case with Mac. Target CPU and arhitecture can change (like x86 with AROS, or PPC with MOS/OS4) but that is the feeling and spirit. Even if its obsolete in modern terms, there would be a real project and real vision to bring it further, instead of just dismissing it.

OK, the right of CUSA is to have such nonsense as CommodoreOS as OS for Amigas, labels "All Commodore and Amigas are Windows compatibile" and other things that confuse past and their present en devour, but maybe it is the only way for mainstream profit and licence pay-off.

In that task, they should be less high profit to remain on x86 market, more presenting themselves as CUSA and not CBM, and much more professional, not the 11:59 bulk PR company, as once again demonstrated.

Q&A session has revealed no new plan, no new strategy or product as they announced just more ... not 30 mill $ advertising.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 12:29:24 PM »
Quote
This last paragraph sums up their ambitions pretty good, I think. And why not? There is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is taking away your classic A1200, or your OS4 box. And we can only speculate how the Amiga would have evolved, had Commodore been alive all this time. I think Barry might be quite right actually. Apple has made at least one similar jump before, and today's Windows are not in any way similar to Windows 3.11 either...

We can all speculate what would be if CBM survived, but same can do Barry and this does not make his choices "right". Point is he is merely an OEM rebrander (or not OEM, a name rebrander) and his choice of "advanced OS" is nothing he has developed.

In other terms he is not selling anything new but the "look" (C64x) and now, not even that, but just the name for huge price difference which makes CUSA irrelevant offer in x86 world (=overpriced even more then Apple that at least offers designed hardware and their own OS). Windows today is much built on previous ones which is clearly visible in many stupid limitations like A-Z drives and 3 letter filetype recognition on extension (which is a DOS feature) even it is rewritten NT kernel and much improved. Way forward is always built on older experience, elements and knowledge.

No one is taking away Classics and OS4 machines EXCEPT CUSA is pretending there is no Amiga history after 1993, and that there is no AmigaOS being developed in their promo. If they are not to develop something that might reach needed minimum (as now is closer to it then ever) to be viewed as usable OS, at least they shouldn`t lie about it - missrepresenting CBM history as their own.

Also they are trying to stick Amiga name exclusively to themselves, negating and in those terms competing to current AROS, Natami, OS4 and  MorphOS

They should have CommodoreUSA Amiga 2012, but using same names as previous models is an insult to Classics, and even their current use.

In other words, generally its just retro exploit, and unless supporting AmigaOS like development it shouldn`t be viewed as development of Amiga. It`s just same as name licenced for dildos, drinks or any other non related product (like it was case with iCoin licence).

Problem is that it tries to cash Amiga survival on no innovation and no real advancement, no matter how much Barry tries to indicate his choices were "advanced and innovative"

Good news is that licence seems to have a timely manner until 2019, so we shall witness either "rise or fall" of "Commodore" again.

P.S.
Nothing against Linux: Linux could be used on much less "advanced hardware" competing for low price and quite usable computer. And I would be glad if they really helped development of MINT and AROS (as promised).

It exploits Linux, Amiga name and has many wrong small steps. There is no real need to have CUSA advertised at any Amiga website, unless paid promo and labeled so. Since they are business, we shouldn`t be "charity" either.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 06:29:12 PM »
Quote from: Pyromania;689078
It sounds like Barry does not know that Minimig has been available and selling for years.

Just for opposite example Natami finalization, Minimig AGA development with standard ARM add on and large memory with legal and preinstalled OS 3.9 + bunch of games could be cheap and nice Amiga comeback. Or FPGA 030 softcore for some FPGA expanded x86 board.

There are plenty ways to explore, but very little if you don`t wish to invest or develop. And that is the end of "Amiga comeback". Linux with Amiga Forever. As much Amiga as any device running UAE nicely and with a bit experienced user or Amiga Forever for it.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 08:19:07 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;689136
True! MorphOS 4.x is the way to go (after 3.x of course)! :D


Yes, and don`t forget the AmigaOS 5 (by Amiga Inc?) or maybe without them, right after 4.2 and 4.3 :-) Assume it will also have all those modern features and will not be PPC (only)
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 08:21:29 PM »
Quote from: itix;689138
Of course they are not more Amiga than MorphOS, AROS, Pegasos, Hyperion's OS4, Natami, Minimig, AmigaOne... you name it... but even the original Commdore sold cheap PC clones under Commodore brand. I dont understand why some people go apecrap when someone is selling PC clones under Amiga brand. It is just a name for god sake.

They are no more Amiga then Android / iPhone running UAE or similar. Nothing is Amiga Classic but the Classic, but somehow doubt CUSA will make it to Amiga History pages, at last not by good

Before no one sold PC clones under Amiga Brand, but the iCoin shop was far more creative: why not offering them all
and even without Amiga Forever (not a bad product for itself, great emu box)?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 08:24:17 PM by vox »
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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 08:28:16 PM »
Quote from: billt;689139
The problem here is that, legally, they are. As far as visible or experiencable content, in our opinions, they are not. While we don't have to accept these "things" as what we believe "Amigas" to be, if we went to court and asked the judge to prevent CUSA from using the Amiga name in the way that they do, we would lose and CUSA would keep the right to do that, so long as they are not breaking some terms of all the contracts involved. (including those contracts not signed directly but CUSA but which Amiga Inc. is bound to restrict their sublicensors to)


True, they legally are, but judging by a lot comments on Amiga Mini announcements, people have many different reasons not to buy it, not only emotional and attached to Amiga brand like here. Like its way overpriced x86 system.So its likely that market and internet show that reason can prevail over legal logic :-)
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 07:58:25 AM »
Quote from: Mangar;689514

I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.

I hope they do well. They are no Mehdi Ali or Gould. All profitable home computers these days run on x86 architecture. Macs and PC's. Mobile computing is the future. There are 3 major OS's available these days. Cusa does not need to re-invent the wheel. Just create something that has a sense of style customized with the spirit of Commodore.


Linux should make computers cheaper for Windows tax, not more expensive. While all summed is true with Mac you at least get MacOSX and Mac designed components which is added value, while with CUSA Amiga Mini is none. With C64x at least was a new designed case/keyboard.

With too greedy strategy, there is a fat chance they will do well in such a competitive world.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 09:27:25 AM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
I really have to wonder if people are reading the same interview I was reading.
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources, and with limits to Amiga IP usage. We are doing the best, with the IP we have available to us, as we possibly can.

You feel a sting right now, I know, but I believe it will all work out for the best in the end.
That that is why we always close with....The best is yet to come....because we honestly believe that.

Taking this as market survival strategy more focus on obtaining cheaper components (or lowering price some other way to be more competitive) would be essential. Even obtaining Windows 7 OEM licences would help to have dual boot machines with Amiga Forever also in Windows. Here and with not a mention of AmigaOS or heritage is just way too high price that kills it as survival strategy. Work more to get more.
At current rate you are completely non-competitive to any brand, including Apple.

Barry`s answers were not "we plan to but we can`t with existing resources, maybe 2013 and beyond" it was mostly laughing and categorical NO.

Also decent PR and marketing, not one that overrepresents the brand or insults other AmigaOS flavours, and more professional, not last minute one with early announcements but "when it`s done" would make company look better.

So far there was not much good seen to expect better.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 03:40:58 PM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689541
Vox. For once there is some constructive criticism in your response.
We know we have to lift our game and provide better value for money.
To have any chance at being competitive a company is required to go through continual cycles of improvement of its products and strategy.
We'll get there eventually.
At the moment AmigaOS has nothing to do with our products and we state as much on our Commodore OS page if you would care to look at it.
Whether you find that insulting or not...it is beyond our control at the moment.
And honestly, it is easily alleviated by installing AROS, whether we can do anything with it commercially or not.


I was also very positive in the early days seeing your Triple Boot video and genuine wish to support AROS. You are only IT literate person in the team, as much as website can tell, and much better in public appearance. Therefore, think of you as possible PR (or there is PR in team  with your advisory).

Beside great utilization of multi level marketing, big promises and modern popular psychology and bussiness schemes, we can‚t yet say you are success. Much to own behaviour, that creates opossition.

Limitations of Amiga Inc licence is something I expected you to be aware as well as limitation of all 3 current AmigaOS arhitectures. You could easily overcome them by agreement with Hyperion and AROS team e.g. you will for 2 years ship machines with AROS and now fund AROS development with 5-10% of profit (this might go to programmers hired not only bounties) and from e.g. 2014 fund OS 4.x transition to your motherboards only  at same level. That would provide great stability and viable future for all AmigaOS and CommodoreOS. And would mean support to you grant baby steps. During that time both AmigaOS or MorphOS or AROS could reach needed requirements and become your additional feature to already installed Ubuntu with AmigaForever or AmiKit.

Also using such antique OS could provide possibility for cheap x86 (+FPGA?) boards that couldnt run newest games, but do most of daily jobs and emulate consoles and Amiga experence (on Linux and Win7 Starter with best free software) plus dual boot to e.g. with improved Amithlon and Amiga Forever and pack of greatest Amiga games. Highest single core or lowest dual core with 2GB of fast RAM and decent graphics could run Linux, Windows 7 starter. And there are still VIA and such cheap suppliers of decent x86 CPUs. And with Kempston USB joysticks and great pack of games could really make a cheap retro appeal of everything working out of box.

Playing high end systems for home users isnt really gonna work out despite the name, and marketing efforts. C64x case is so far only real product of yours, shame its quite expensive.

There is still time until 2019.

Bottom line, having nothing to do with AmigaOS Amiga(OS) community has nothing to do with you really, so better focus on Linux and gamers forums.
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 10:21:48 PM »
Quote from: number6;689673
The major stumbling block would be running headlong into the AI/Hyperion settlement agreement once again.

#6


Not if you make some agreement / partnership with Hyperion that allows you to do so. So its not Hyperion that is "evil" but CUSA that knows or dont knows (by first AROS announcement) the limits of ther licence, and anyway dont want to invest and develop, which leaves them to just what they offer, and that is mostly overpriced what we all already have or can have (x86 with Linux and AF)
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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 12:16:53 AM »
Quote from: Darrin;689663
Yep, that would have worked a treat.  Amithlon, Bernielon, AmigaXL...  The major stumbling block seems to be them having to pay someone to do some work.


But they have been able to create few paradoxes

Quote
All Commodore and Amiga computers fully support Ubuntu and Windows operating systems.

Quote
all VIC, Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers run CommodoreOS with Amiga Forever
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 10:22:59 AM »
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689947
@Darrin

I don't recall Commodore USA ever claiming that. There is a script in Commodore OS to rip ROMs and games from AmigaForever, which you would have purchased from Cloanto.

So Amiga Forever is delivered with Amiga (Mini) only or it will wait for 20 000$ systems? Gladly have already AF 2012 :-)

The point was other. Paradox is even the VIC, C64 and Amiga lines should mimic the difference in power of old home computers being CUSA low, mid and high end series, back in the days major difference was in real hardware differences and different series of software. Now its gone since all your computers do run same Linux with major feeling quite the same and some differences in performance but since you picked Linux, even the low end machine should be able to run it quite nicely and real performance difference would be seen in pro apps, that mostly don`t exist for Linux. Another simple paradox.

Likewise running joke on not saying C=USA computers can run Windows and comes with CommodoreOS Linux is that, in relation to this community saying that all VIC, Commodore and Amiga computers can run Windows is a nonsense.

That is what you get (paradoxes) when you abuse retro name.

Off course no one will try to insert Windows or CommodoreOS to an old VIC, real C64 or Amiga, but sounds like a good joke.

For example, you can`t say we don`t own Commodore, VIC and Amiga machines, and yet we are deprived
of ability to run Windows and CommodoreOS that you so boldly claim on your website.

Someone must be pretending :-)

Also, the sentence
Quote
All Commodore and Amiga computers fully support Ubuntu and Windows operating systems.
is also IT illiterate: The OS supports your hardware, or your provide drivers as support to the OS, and computers don`t support OS`s.

Quote
Don't you understand that Commodore USA "most likely" can't sell or even give it away from free WITH or WITHOUT one of our machines.
Dissemination is the issue within the settlement.

Quote
I have never had any conversation with either of
them, although there are still possibilities for collaboration, but it is not
for me to discuss these matters publicly.

AS much as I understand you never tried negotiating licence with Hyperion to have legal permission to do so. This kind of legal restrain
was part of the incomplete licence you got from Amiga Inc, so if you had general desire to do so, contacting Hyperion would come natural.
Before pretending to have "AmigaOS instead of AmigaOS" named "Workbench V". That is how you loose possibilities to create contacts, negative campaigns will always backfire.

Its more realistic to say your are not interested, or you don`t find it commercially viable, like Baron says, but add`s few high kicks to it.

Do you work as CTO from Aussieland via Internet or you do visit the Florida HQ?

Quote
Does Mint send money to Ubuntu? No.

No, but Mint doesn`t make money on Ubuntu.

Do you intend of creating partnership with Linux Mint to provide updates to your OS? People are letting you do the rename,
and just wish to have stable contact. Since you are bundling their product, it would be good idea to create product support
from them as well as update and maintance, and support their development (as it is your own) since you do make money
on their product. And having millions of possible combinations coming from small OEM rebranders as licencees, drivers will also
become an issue as well as troubleshooting.

OK, you don`t want to support AROS as charity, but will you support Linux you have chosen?

Since there is a PowerPC Mint what do you think of CommodoreOS minimal install (as not all x86 apps are ported to PowerPC)
that would support AmigaOne X1000, SAM 460, SAM 440, PegII and MacMini? Are you interested in providing or even
selling cheap but strong Linux distro for Amiga PowerPC systems?

Quote
Ask yourself how we can possibly be responsible for the hardware that
independent system vendors place within these barebones units or the
quality of their assembly. If we hear they are selling substandard
equipment, or in any way causing harm to consumers or the brands,
we will no longer fulfil their barebones orders.

This is weakest point of the idea to have free worldwide distribution and wider range of choices (as well as lower prices).
there is no real quality control and issues will arise. Also, limits are imposed by chosen Linux distro and distributors
that don`t have enough Linux knowledge. Many problems can arise, and complying to customer report (assuming
he knows where to report) will not reduce damage already done.

Quote
Incidentally Commodore OS has a Dopus Megellan clone pre-installed
as standard already. Ironic, that we already have it, and a much more
refined version at that.

What is the Dopus Magellan clone we aren`t aware of?
Having any file manager isn`t a Dopus Magellan clone.

Quote
Yes, it’s called Windows, you may have heard of it.

Please take PR and get rid of such stupid sentences that are supposed either to laugh
or educate us. No, we haven`t heard of it, it must be new Commodore product.

Quote
I do believe however that the most vocal
critics are just spiteful of our success, to the point of their vitriol
reaching a level of absurdity.;

Do you really believe its just envy and not common sense in seeing many mistakes
CommodoreUSA has done down the road? What success, in buying Amiga Inc licence and website?

Quote
It must be also realised that the majority of Amiga owners were solely
games players, using their Amigas in a similar fashion to consoles, and
while they may have used the machines for some other purposes now
and then, do not have any particular allegiance to the operating
system or chips in the machine, but loved the brand just the same.

They loved gaming experience on it provided by hardware and at least
knew there is special hardware in it and OS that is better then Windows 3.11
(everyone booted WB). However, it was not the games but productivity apps
that have made Amiga name as serious creativity macine. Games were just up
to the console and arcade experience. If Amiga was only associated with games,
why your machines aren`t consoles or don`t come with joysticks and few games?

Quote
I went on to estimate that various configurations of such a
machine could cost as much as $25,000. Obviously, such collaboration
has not yet occurred, nor will we produce a mainstream Commodore
Amiga machine that would cost anywhere near that amount. To think
so is crazy, but yet again, what I have said has been taken out of
context and applied to the propaganda purposes of a small yet vocal
minority.

So now there never was a promise of 25 000$ Amigas. It is taken out of
context for propaganda. Good to know. Admitting mistakes would be nicer,
that you estimated such high league sales might even worsen.

So you as CTO claim this was also only our imagination?

Denial seems to be Barry`s strongest defense mechanism.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 11:22:13 AM by vox »
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 11:30:59 AM »
Quote from: A1260;689953
@VOX

it is clearly cusa dont want to give any money to linux mint either. they choose it because it was free, for them to exploit and use as they wanted. so they could sell it with their 20 000$ systems. it is as simple as that, you can forget support cusa aint running a charity after all. barry only want to fill his pockets with cash and there ends his interests in anything amiga to, he have made that perfectly clear in this q&a.


Agreed, "play new, use free". But on worldwide conquest, you need to support what you claim is your own OS, and what when you are unable to do so?

Leaving users without software and hardware support is again not only immoral but breaking the customer protection laws anywhere in civilized world.

Never seen someone who doesn`t want to invest, but only to gain.
Top rankin`
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yXBWxpaEHM
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Offline vox

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Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 05:53:45 PM »
Quote from: dammy;689962
Then you should be glad to be told you are wrong.  Tech support is given for hardware and COS.  I've been in the office when a C=USA customer calls up and is walked through a resolution of his tech problem.  Leo is online and answers many a COS or tech question from emails and on commodore-amiga.org posts.

Now will you admit your wrong?

First day CUSA admits some mistakes and call them not trivial.
Now using Barry tactics, I might be wrong for not knowing what you have seen, but it doesn`t matter anyway
because I have a licence to vox name.

Barry said in interview its all up to licencee. Even the software part "because Microsoft also does the same". Its good there is a Leo from Australia pretending to be support, since he is litterate and Barry to chat on the phone.
But again, there is more serious ways to setup the business.

And software support is updates and drivers. Without Linux mint team and with millions of possible driver combinations ...
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