Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[EDanaII]

If you want my support, I would say only this:
Negotiate with Hyperion, MorphOS, support AROS and/or deliver a machine with an Amiga-like OS. I don't care which as long as you deliver a computer with an Amiga-like OS. Preferably affordable with a chance of a future. (Sorry guys, but that pretty much eliminates 68k or PPC.)

I also would not be against the Natami case option that others are suggesting here... but I'm less likely to buy into that.

[EDanaII]

And limited, ultimately, to 500 mhz, if I recall correctly. I'm not against Natami as a possible option, but in order for this to succeed, especially for the community's sake, it has to have a future. PPC and m68k are, effectively, dead ends. ARM or x86 would be better, but commodity hardware is your best hope and the further you move away from that the more that chance of success diminishes.

Now, I wouldn't mind a "fusion" project that uses Natami's architecture as a foundation, but, once again, the less commodity components it uses the smaller that future becomes...

[EDanaII]

Why does a company with a "projected $30 million marketing budget" need anyone to prepay for their computers?

Because a wise businessman doesn't invest money until he's sure he's got a pretty good ROI? If they can get 500 interested Amigan, they can be more confident of that investment...

[EDanaII]

@ orb85750

Wise? Maybe they shouldn't have dumped so much money into their current failures. They could have used *that* money to create something useful and real (i.e. a real Amiga) without any of us having to put our money in escrow in order to see it come to fruition.

So, when somebody else in the Amiga community does a pre-order, it's OK, but when they do it they're dumb-asses?


@ amiman99

Maybe there needs to be a POLL that asks if there are 500 people who are willing to participate. Lets say you vote "YES" if CUSA will do what you want, it does not matter which solution yet. We just need to find out if CUSA can get 500 people on board.

If you can only get 50-100 to agree then it does not matter what is decided.

I think there will be the "ultimate" poll when the project is decided and costed. It's called a "put your money where your mouth is" poll in which Amiga users pre-pay for their system. 500 people buy in and the "poll" is satisfied.

[EDanaII]

There is no reason why we can't put $100 down and pay the rest later.  The fact is that I don't even know what I'm paying.  How do you buy a computer you've never seen and how do you set the price for a computer you've never seen?

They're not offering anything yet, Chuck. They've simply laid out a contract stating "decide what you want, we'll do the project plan, tell you how much and how long it will take... if you want it, pay the cost up front and when we're done, we'll collect your payment." This is a perfectly valid arrangement.

[EDanaII]

Look, I ain't exactly a CUSA fan either. I've even gone so far as to insult Barry over on the Commodore Amiga forum, but this quote from the first post in this thread:

7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.

is not a take it or leave it proposition... no, wait, it is: you can take your money back if you don't like it or you can leave your money with them if you wanna keep their product.

Poor CUSA, they can do no right...

[EDanaII]

@ AmigaDave

I applaud your efforts in trying to talk sense and make the most of an opportunity, but it is a waste of your time arguing with the few CUSA haters that will never accept anything that they do or say.

You are, sadly, correct, Dave. But one has to try. Well, occasionaly, I have to try. =)

I am no fan of CUSA either, but if they really want to make amends with the community, I will let them (if they can). My doubt is that they will never get 500 people to agree to anything.

And, sadly, I gotta (mostly) agree with you here too. Where I don't agree is that if they were to take leadership of this community, they could get 500 Amigans to agree. Leaving it up to a group which is fairly evenly divided on which way to go is a potential recipe for disaster. Just look at the CPU Poll. It has PPC and x86 nearly evenly divided, with PPC having a 5 point edge over x86.

The problem is, the PPC solution will likely be as expensive as any presented so far and I doubt that they'll get their 500 customer buy-in as a result. Whereas, the x86 solution is likely more affordable and stands a better chance of their 500+ buyer stipulation.

Here's how I expect them to play it, however: they'll do their project planning, come back and say, OK, the PPC solution will take this long and cost this much. How many o' you wanna buy into this? And, I expect, there will be much wheeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on the price. I also expect that they'll say "the time to put together a new Mobo/PPC combo is longer than the six months we stipulated for this project."

But here's where leadership could come into play. I'm in the x86 camp, but I've also suggested "that if it must be PPC, then XBox, Wii or PS3" and that would be one alternative to bringing the price and time down.

So, I see this polling business as a communication tool. "You want this, it will take this long and cost this much." "OK, how about this, instead?" "OK, here's a third option." "Look, if you don't like the options we got, we can't help you."

Of course, like you, I don't really see Amigan's coming together this way; there will always division in this group, so I would have taken a different strategy than CUSA.

It would have been something like this:
* Fund AROS bounties to move AROS to a professional level.
* Fund AROS bounties to make it ready for a particular set of x86 hardware.
* Created properly branded case and sold it with that hardware and without AROS.
* Informed the Community, "here it is if ya want it, sorry if you don't. You're free to install AROS on it or whatever you prefer."

I'll bet you good money many of the Wheepers, Wailers and Gnashers would buy it anyway...

[EDanaII]

Amithlon will never come back to life, thanks to the copyright vultures gnawing at the carcass of the Amiga (including ineffectual Hyperion in this group).

For the most part, I agree with you, but never say 'never.' CUSA has stated, effectively for us not to worry about issues like that, so I'm not against letting them try.

That said, while I favor an AROS-like solution, Amithlon (then and now) represents the best way forward by offering the best compatibility/speed/price option of them all.

It really is a shame it went down in flames...

[EDanaII]

2) C=USA have asked for us to provide ideas, for them to implement in 6 months. That's about 24 weeks. There is no way anything close to what the Amiga commmunity will ask for will be done in this time. They would need this time just for testing alone - ask Trevor. He hired a professional team of experienced designers for the X1000 and it still took nearly two years. How can a company with no technical know-how do it in 6 months?

There are a couple of things that are doable withing that 6 month time-frame. One is AROS on a particular set of hardware. I think OS4.1 or MorphOS on x86 are also doable, but less likely, assuming, of course, that either are willing to be a part of that. Beyond that, yes, I think you're correct, anything else in 6 months is highly doubtful.