CommodoreUSA Partners with Disney

[commodorejohn]

The intereting thing will be to see how many people still doubt it if the story is the same tomorrow.  Even more interesting will be to see where things go on the 5th.  It would take some pretty big self denial to continue to doubt that CUSA is for real if they get ads in a disney release.

Whether it's real or not, it's still a PC in a funny case running Linux :/

[commodorejohn]

Cola Zero are the boys from da hood who supply the cocaine being snorted by C-USA employees.  

Nah, Coca-Cola is advising them on how to take a beloved product and ruin it trying to cater to an impossibly broad market. I wonder if they'll cover the subsequent "hasty backtracking and ass-covering" part?

[commodorejohn]

I still don't get the direction of the company, or the reasoning behind the product line, but I hope that someone doesn't lose a small fortune here because there could have been other projects such has bringing the FPGA to market in mass for Xmas that could really generate some cash.

This is my feeling as well. Disregarding my other feelings for CUSA and their product, wasn't there any better use for their much-touted "$30 million advertising budget" than this? Printed inserts in the DVD case of a nerd movie doesn't say "massive awareness builder," it says "huh, that's interesting, into the trash it goes."

[commodorejohn]

And the original C64 was a 6502-based PC in a funny case running Microsoft BASIC - your point?

Perhaps I should have clarified as "IBM PC clone?" Nah, you'd probably have said the same. My point is that the Commodore 64 was and is its own thing; a 6502 plus a particular combination of custom hardware, custom and standard software, and defined expansion interfaces that comprise the Commodore 64 (and, as a superset, the 128,) and not any other computer. This is a completely different and fundamentally incompatible computer running a completely different operating system, that gets reasonably good software compatibility only with the inclusion of an emulator that (unless I'm greatly surprised and it's not VICE) is absolutely no different from the emulator that can be freely installed on any other PC under any major operating system

Even this is limited at best. You can't hook any of your expansion hardware into it (and before you smarm about emulating it, there's a broad range of CBM expansions that are not yet supported in emulators.) You can't run C64 disks on it, or even use it to make disk images for use with the emulator without at least as much difficult as you'd have on any other PC. (I'm sure someone will be all too happy to sell you new disk-image copies of your existing software, though.) And there's even C64 software that doesn't require hardware expansions that won't run on emulators at present. Putting aside the discussion of whether the C64x's marketing is misleading, it's fundamentally dishonest to even call it that. It's not a C64, whatever it looks like, and it's no more compatible with one than any other x86-based PC. No amount of licensure or cross-promotion deals will change that.

[commodorejohn]

This post SHOULD NOT be in "Amiga News and Community Announcements"

But...but...they're the Amiga community's brand-new sugar-daddy! Why shouldn't we treat them as the Deliverers of the Truth and Light from On High?

[commodorejohn]

Because C64 is not Amiga and therefore other OS section seems right to me.

But they've put so much money into this! Shouldn't that be enough to buy our loyalty? What do you want, a product actually related to the C64 or Amiga or something?

[commodorejohn]

Does the box impart the schnazzy, or is it like MSG, so the object being placed inside contains some schnazz and the box just enhances it...

Neither - it's the Magical Commodore Brand that imbues it with holy powers of awesomeness. CUSA spent much money in acquiring the Holy Brand, therefore we are now obligated to love and cherish them.

At least, that's how it seems to work around here :|

[commodorejohn]

In one example I might put it like this... "Hey your favorite pet of 20 year is gone, sorry about that. But no worries, here's a new different pet. But we named it the same so you're all patched up now. Time to put a smile on and move along." I feel such an attitude disrespectful to some folks who have been our friends along time. Of course some don't and probably prefer more sentimental types leave. That is the "them +1" I refer to.

Pretty much this, but that is exactly why I do mourn this kind of thing - these people come along touting their wares as if they're actually a replacement for the Amiga, and then half the people here get so doe-eyed at the sight of shiny baubles! that they will smile and nod and go along with absolutely anything their new sugar-daddy wants, just because they're so obsessed with the idea that it's totally a real product again, now nobody can make fun of me for using an old computer.

So they stand around applauding like idiots, the stubborn old cranks reinforce their commitment to never trusting anything or anyone ever again, and people like me who would actually like to see a new Amiga product but aren't willing to pretend that commodity Intel hardware in a nice case is totally the same thing as a classic home computer are left with nowhere to turn.

[commodorejohn]

So it should be banned and not discussed? Everyone should stick their fingers in their ears and yell LALALALALALALALALALA as loud as they can? Only "teh true Amiga" should be discussed?

I never said that, nor meant to imply it. I don't (in theory) have a problem with threads about C-USA or their fancy PC clones. What I do have a problem with is people who act as though C-USA is now the official One True Way, and anybody who still wants something that is actually in any way based on or inspired by the historical Amiga is a backwards hermit whose sad devotion to that ancient religion needs to be hammered down until they get in line and buy the Numiga. They can piss off; they're no more the True Arbiters of What Amiga Means than I am.

[commodorejohn]

The only thing Disney has done worth while in many moons was their Animation Kit software package for the Amiga.

Well, there was The Emperor's New Groove...that movie was so much better than the entire rest of their post-1994 output it's not even funny, except that it is, in fact, funny as hell.

[commodorejohn]

To be honest, aside from releasing all Amiga IP into the public domain, nothing any company does is going to help the community.

The only worthwhile efforts in the Amiga world right now are grassroots projects like AROS and FPGA clone hardware.

This.

[commodorejohn]

Commodore uSA has DONE MORE THAN ANY AMIGA COMPANY SINCE 93 TO GET THE BRAND OUT THERE.

And that's totally what matters. The nature or quality of the product? That's piffle. It's brand awareness that we value above all else.

[commodorejohn]

So this whole rage thing is about protecting Hyperion?

Speaking only for myself: I do not give a tinker's damn about Hyperion. I will not be arsed to defend them against anybody's claims or vitriol, and none of my dislike of CUSA comes out of some misguided sense of loyalty. I will note, however, that they are at least selling something based on something related to the Amiga. CUSA has not done that, and despite certain people's speculations, I find it unlikely that they are going to (and I maintain my solemn vow to buy a hat and eat it should I be proved wrong.) If their "Amiga" line is anything like their "C64" line, it is at best a misnomer and at worst actively misleading, and no amount of money paid to any vulture that grabbed a copyright at an estate sale is going to change that.

Nevertheless, I withhold the majority of my venom from them, as they do appear (despite initial appearances and one extremely bad PR person) to be shipping an actual product that, while misleadingly named, will in fact match up with the specifications they published. Instead, I choose to disdain the CUSA zealots who rave at every turn about how majestic this company is for producing a PC clone in a fancy case and getting it into stores, and how financial success makes them the One True Future of Amiga, as if this were some 18th-century marriage of convenience where financial prospects are infinitely more important than actually giving a damn about your partner.

CUSA has shown zero interest in serving the Amiga community anything but a prefab case with a boing-ball sticker on it and some "totally going to be specified in the near future, like, seriously, any day now" hardware inside, a neat trick which allows their zealots to claim that "you totally can't claim it's going to be another PC clone, because you don't know that for absolutely certain yet!" They've provided only vague hints about maybe possibly developing an OS or something, we dunno, we'll see what we feel like, continually hinting that actual meaningful information is just around the corner, for real!

A company that did this to any other community would be justly labeled a cock-tease and hounded out, but around here people are so desperate and willing to believe in and proselytize anything as long as it means they might finally be able to buy something with an "Amiga" label on it, because somehow commercial availability is the one meaningful definition of success, trumping every single other factor. You could sell used tampons to this community if you licensed the Amiga name for them.

But it doesn't matter, because CUSA is going to release their gussied-up PC clone and the zealots will be all over it, and the dipshit tech-journalism industry will be gushing about "the return of Commodore," and nobody will ever stop to wonder when product names stopped signifying things and started signifying clans. Congratulations, you bought an Apple; you're now a discriminating elitist ready to follow Steve Jobs into the future. Congratulations, you bought a C64x; you're part of the Altman Army, ready to storm the industry and bring down the establishment - BY BECOMING IT. How stupid are the people in this community?

[commodorejohn]

@Commodorejohn,

You know I wish I could live in the past like some of you. The fact of the matter is even my arch rival Apple saw the light and moved over to the X86 type CPU's they saw that the 68000 series and even the PPC chips where going obsolete.

First off, the 68000 series isn't even out of production. The commercially-available ColdFire chips may not be compatible enough for our purposes, but they do exist, and NatAmi has a much more compatible reproduction in the works that will still run faster than even the 68060.

And there's no way in hell it's obsolete, unless your definition of "obsolete" is "does not have a physical implementation that's fast enough to meet my needs at the moment." The 68k architecture is still a solid design that was far enough ahead when it was introduced 30 years ago that it didn't have to be brought up to modern standards via a series of increasingly massive kludges until they finally said "screw it" and moved it to to hardware emulation on a faster micro-architecture (*cough*x86*cough*)

The only difference is -- they had the money and the talent to rewrite their OS for the new Apples, they had their own money and people that could do a restart and make it work.

And it's hilarious that you'd even be making this comparison, when CUSA are going with bog-standard Linux on the C64x and have talked about maybe, possibly doing a vaguely-defined new OS for a later project.

What does Amiga have, a bunch of darn whiners that whine about everything, they aren't putting any money up, they aren't risking their bankroll but they are complaining about a second chance.

News flash: some of us don't have that kind of money. Believe me, if I suddenly won the lottery, funding a project like NatAmi would be #2 on my priority list, right after "pay off my college loans."

Well guess what they can't -- comparing the graphics and sound of Far Cry would be like trying to run a game for the Amiga on the Vic 20. It just isn't possible. That's right CJ we are talking games here, you know the things that made Amiga tick. You want to talk Amiga's Cliche -- video processing, guess what it doesn't lead the field anymore, MAC has taken over, and PC is right on its heals. Don't even try to talk business programs or multi tasking, the PC will wipe the Amiga slick today.

For your consideration: I am perfectly at peace with the fact that PCs and Macs (and newer ARM machines, for that matter) thoroughly outstrip even an accelerated 68k Amiga at any given task. But you know what? I don't value the Amiga because it can run the best games, or do the best video processing, or anything else. I value it because of what it is: a fascinating design in both software and hardware that is so beautifully documented that anyone can understand it. That is worth preserving, not abandoning just because it's not shiny enough.

What would you do if you had the money and the power to start a computer company?

I would fund the development of the NatAmi, or something like it, so that it could reach its full potential, with optimized hardware from the best fabs.

What new innovations would you bring out?

The fastest 68k Amiga to date.

What would your computer do that stood out from all the rest?

Who gives a shit? If it's a great machine, it's a great machine, and the hell with what the competition thinks.

Personally I'd rather the Amiga brand was laid to rest than whored out on cheap knock-off tat like supermarket TVs and sub $100 buggy android tablets, what a sad and undignified end to one of the industries most pioneering technology brands of the 80s/90s. Sticking the name Amiga on a kettle or crap TV is not doing "more for the Amiga", it's making what was once a legendary name into a laughing stock.

This. THIS.

Pay close attention, this is DISNEY, they don't do it that way. Why don't you call and ask Disney yourself if you can advertise your product and see what they say?

Look, I don't care whether you have to say "pretty please" and do a little dance or not, money changed hands and CUSA got advertising space. Everything else is just bureacratic twiddling.

[commodorejohn]

That is because you don't want to really know the difference.  First lets look at co-branding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-branding

Second, Disney does not sell advertising space.

So they put a fancy name on it, what does that change? Even assuming you'd really count this as co-branding (because seriously, would Disney really be hoping to promote Tron: Legacy off the sales of a PC clone in a C64 case?) all that means is that maybe they exchanged something other than pure dollars for advertising space. Big whoop.

Third, it's a huge accomplishment to be partnering with Disney, they do a complete background check on the company before they sign any agreement. You can belittle it all you want, it is what it is and there is nothing you can say to change it.

So, what, Disney is the Amiga community's matchmaker now? What would a "background check" entail other than making sure that they're producing and shipping an actual product (which, by this point, is no longer in question?) If they're satisfied CUSA isn't a scam, good for Disney, but no amount of "co-branding" is going to make this not a PC clone in a fancy case running Linux.