A-EON Technology CVBA and Varisys Ltd Announce Partnership

[Karlos]

You also have to consider that if two very similarly clocked intel Core 2 duo processors show what could be an error in the benchmarking process (ie only one core rather than two), it's just as possible the same applies to the PA6T benchmark. As there's only one such benchmark for that, you've simply no way of knowing for sure.

There's another reference to 7W here, the average power dissipated when running SPEC benchmarks: http://www2.electronicproducts.com/High-performance_dual-core_processor_needs_just_14_W-article-poyjh02-jan2008-html.aspx

At 2 GHz, each core achieves a SPECint2000 score of 1,000 and a SPECfp2000 score of 1,500. Running SPEC benchmarks, each core dissipates around 7 W max; a SPECint/W of 142.8, about four times more power efficient than a Core 2 Duo processor. The chip has a coherent, ordered crossbar interconnect, 2 Mbytes of L2 cache, two DDR2 memory controllers, and multichannel DMA and hardware acceleration engines for TCP/IP, iSCSI, cryptography-IPSEC and SSL, and RAID functions.

-edit-

Assuming those figures are for real, that's not too shabby when compared to stated G4 SPECint2000/SPECfp2000 scores. Have a look here: http://www.macintouch.com/ppcperf.html

[takemehomegrandma]

Isnt it about time for you to make a public apology for all your past FUD that now has turned out to be false?

Don't you see how practically all the predictions from the last 4-5 months, that some people back then discarded as "FUD", has now actually turned out to be completely true?

[bernd_afa]

@Karlos
>it's just as possible the same applies to the PA6T benchmark. As there's only one such >benchmark for that, you've simply no way of knowing for sure.

thats possible too, but i think the guys that sell pa6 systems have an eye on it.
This benchmark is the one and only benchmark i find for pa6.and when potential buyers find it and its worser than real, then its bad for the pa6t sellers.

a better argument is when you tell, that in real world things may be diffrent, because its no real world bencmark.

but anyway i have no hope that the pa6t is a fast CPU so a price of 1800 Eur is something in reality and a revival is possible.

its only bad, that the most expensivest AOS solution make the most future hope and so most money flow to this projects.

I think the amiga have a better rivival when Hyperion accept that Haage and Partner change from PPC to X86 and support that too...

[dreamcast270mhz]

I think the amiga has a better chance of revival when Hyperion accepts that Haage and Partner changed from PPC to X86 and support that too...

Fixed it so it makes sense, but I find that highly unlikely. I have composed a sort of chart outlining the most likely future of the three Amiga-Like OSes:
Current                   Future
MorphOS PPC------> ARM & PPC (Or X86?)
AROS X86 & PPC--->X86 & X64
AOS 4 PPC---------->PPC

Thats the platform future of the three from looking at the way everything has gone. Of course, I cannot predict the success of each one, but AROS will probably join Linux, BSD and Haiku in the endless struggle against Windows, while MOS and OS4 will probably continue to go head-to-head for a long time, in time the MorphOS team will probably finish out the G4 and G5 line of support and either expand into the OS4 market of machines (As long as Hyperion has money they will find a PPC supplier) or look into ARM more likely than x86 as ARM machines have been proven to be cheaper. But I can't see Hyperion making too much of a profit

[Fats]

Of course, I cannot predict the success of each one, but AROS will probably join Linux, BSD and Haiku in the endless struggle against Windows, while MOS and OS4 will probably continue to go head-to-head for a long time, in time the MorphOS team will probably finish out the G4 and G5 line of support and either expand into the OS4 market of machines (As long as Hyperion has money they will find a PPC supplier) or look into ARM more likely than x86 as ARM machines have been proven to be cheaper. But I can't see Hyperion making too much of a profit

We (AROS) probably won't be able to make any dent in the Windows market share, true. But we'll most likely have a lot more installations than MOS+OS4 combined. I would already be content if we get to a few percent of the current Linux desktop installations .

greets,
Staf.

[dreamcast270mhz]

We (AROS) probably won't be able to make any dent in the Windows market share, true. But we'll most likely have a lot more installations than MOS+OS4 combined. I would already be content if we get to a few percent of the current Linux desktop installations .

greets,
Staf.

Maybe you will, the biggest advantage you all have is the ability to run on top of Linux. But I like OS4 and MorphOS better, I will be getting a mini from a friend soon, and i hope the X1000 does well, if it does take off at all, we will be blessed, but unless the PPC manufacturers get a better CPU in the next few years, we will fall behind again.

[the_leander]

Maybe you will, the biggest advantage you all have is the ability to run on top of Linux.

Actually their biggest advantage is not being tied to sucky overpriced underpowered hardware. Oh and being Opensourced. And not having anything to do with the pit of fail that is Ben Hermans.

Being able to run hosted under linux is kinda cool, but way down on the list of advantages.

 

But I like OS4 and MorphOS better, I will be getting a mini from a friend soon, and i hope the X1000 does well, i

Agreed and I hope your experience with the mini is a good one.

but unless the PPC manufacturers get a better CPU in the next few years, we will fall behind again.

AFAIK PPC has never really been ahead and only very briefly on a few separate occasions on a level playing field with x86 in terms of performance. The last time was the initial release of the G5's, which put them briefly on par with Athlon64's of the same vintage. But within a year the playing field had moved again.

What you have in the X1000 is basically a marginally more modern Circa 2004 G5 PowerMac.

[bernd_afa]

>Fixed it so it makes sense, but I find that highly unlikely. I have composed a sort of chart >outlining the most likely future of the three Amiga-Like OSes:

there is a easy rule.

Invest Money in a comparable in price and power Hardware and support it with Software and OS.

but this work not on amiga land.

lots of money and support is flow to bring AOS to high price PPC Hardware, but this much money help at least to get more apps.But the users must pay a high price for the Hardware and as can see not many do that.

On the other side there is AROS on X86.It have lots cheaper and much faster Hardware, but much much less money flow into it and support of it is few, and thats the Reason that AROS have not so much Apps as MOS or OS4.

So the ideal AOS for a revival have the Hardware as AROS and the support with money as MOS or OS4.

And when the guys with the money really think that it bring better future to support AOS that run only on the expensive HW, and there is no way insight to bring with PPC a more powerful and cheaper HW, then i really have no hope that this solution grow over 800-900 Fan Users.Thats way to few for a revival

and thats really optimistic, when look on the download count of the firefox alpha(a must have i think, because not many software come) i see only 551 downloads, and on aminet 77 and thats for 6 Years that OS4 can use.I am sure, in the past there are more OS4 users.

There was a user count in 2005 or maybe 2006, at amigaworld.net, there was over 850 users with aone microaone etc hw.

maybe a amiga Hardware can 20% more expensive with the same performance you get form current Hardware, but thats whats here on new hardware have such a high price that i dont think the user increase to reach at least the level of OS4 users in 2005.

I think a revival is only possible, when MOS or OS4 can produce new Hardware that is not higher as 20-30% in price by same performance as current systems.

If they can not i think all investet money does not help that more users ever use it.

[dreamcast270mhz]

I think a revival is only possible, when MOS or OS4 can produce new Hardware that is not higher as 20-30% in price by same performance as current systems.

I think that you speak some economic truth here, the main problem being PPC isn't mass-produced as much as 5-10 years ago, making it prohibitively expensive. Now, all we need is some new PPC to come out that is used in, lets say a DVD player that can match a Core Duo at least, and have a >1000 USD price tag. (A pipe dream)

[dammy]

Fixed it so it makes sense, but I find that highly unlikely. I have composed a sort of chart outlining the most likely future of the three Amiga-Like OSes:
Current                   Future
MorphOS PPC------> ARM & PPC (Or X86?)
AROS X86 & PPC--->X86 & X64
AOS 4 PPC---------->PPC

It's a real possibility that you will also see AROS running on EFIKA-MX before A1X1K is released.

[bernd_afa]

>AFAIK PPC has never really been ahead and only very briefly on a few separate occasions >on a level playing field with x86 in terms of performance.

1997 with the 604e technoligy the cyberstorm PPC have, the PPC was much ahead 486 and Pentium 1/2 CPU really.I measure that out, and the Cyberstorm PPC have a lower price.

The wind of change come only in year 1999 2000 when Motorola do not the new G5 they have announce.Intel do the P3 and AMD do the Athlon.The Athlon performs the PPC 604 y out in performance /MHZ

Now we have 2010 and PPC still have as the fastest performance /MHZ technoligy the 604 technoligy that is called later as G4 and get altivec.

but now 2010 intel and AMD do more and what happen on PPC land except the 604 -> G4 technolgy was only some low performance /MHZ but low Power Chips as qori AMCC 4xx and pa6t.

PPC is cheap today only in low clockrates.but all over 1 GHZ is today expensive on PPC.

but still its no excuse that a AMCC 1 GHZ board is so expensive.See the efika, its sell last for 99$.

sure efika its lot underpowered, but today for 199$ should be a OS4/MOS system with a 1 GHZ PPC CPU and 1 gigabyte RAM board possible.

thats not too high price so maybe more users buy a MOS or OS4 system as a secondary system.

[Amiga_Nut]

The only reason we are still on G4 PPC CPUs is down to the manufacturers/designers of Amiga hardware NOT a technical problem in finding new and better CPUs than G5 PPC. I have said it until I am blue in the face that any engineer with a half decent IQ would be building cheap motherboards based on the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU which is compatible with PowerPC. This CPU is 4+ years old now. They should have made the call to IBM a long time ago at Hyperion/Amiga Inc etc. Given some 50 million IBM Xenon CPUs have been fabricated they could probably sell them at LESS than 604e prices charged to Amiga companies.

Also when comparing 68060 to x86 remember Motorola was the first to make a clock doubled CPU for desktop computers. A 50mhz 060 runs internally at 100mhz. Intel did not do this until Centrino a decade later. It also explains the massive perceived increase in performance from 040 to 060 CPUs at similar speeds. 020 and 030 were not so great but it doesn't matter, Commodore had no idea where to go from 68040 and would have gone bankrupt anyway whatever PPC CPUs were available in 1994.

[tone007]

I have said it until I am blue in the face that any engineer with a half decent IQ would be building cheap motherboards based on the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU which is compatible with PowerPC.

..and you can stop saying it, because no, some random engineer can't go and have a few hundred boards printed up at a decent price.  You'll end up with another X1000. (the CPU they're using is PPC compatible too!)

Come back when you have a million pre-orders.

[Iggy]

I have said it until I am blue in the face that any engineer with a half decent IQ would be building cheap motherboards based on the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU which is compatible with PowerPC. This CPU is 4+ years old now. They should have made the call to IBM a long time ago at Hyperion/Amiga Inc etc. Given some 50 million IBM Xenon CPUs have been fabricated they could probably sell them at LESS than 604e prices charged to Amiga companies.

If only! IBM has been manufacturing the Cell processor, a sucessor to the Cell, and the processor in Microsoft XBOX360 (which you've mentioned) for several years now.

It has been discussed, but IBM qualifies each manufacturer's application for Cell related projects. If it finds merit in the application it will work with the company.

IBM wants to make a profit from it's ventures. So far, the only applications it has allowed for this technology are high volume/ low profit margin products (like the XBOX360 and the PS3) and low volume/high profit items (like Cell based Blade servers).

You can call them if you like. I could even give you the name of the person heading that department (he responded to my own inquiries quite cordially).
However, since what you're talking about looks like a low volume/low profit product, I don't think you'll be able to get approval for it.
I wish I could say that I don't understand the logic in this, but Motorola (who made the last Amiga processors) isn't in that market anymore and IBM still is.
They seem to understand that in order to stay in business you need to do more than create a good product. You have to market it right. Cell based PCs aren't going to happen.

[Piru]

I have said it until I am blue in the face that any engineer with a half decent IQ would be building cheap motherboards based on the IBM Xenon 3.2Ghz CPU which is compatible with PowerPC. This CPU is 4+ years old now. They should have made the call to IBM a long time ago at Hyperion/Amiga Inc etc. Given some 50 million IBM Xenon CPUs have been fabricated they could probably sell them at LESS than 604e prices charged to Amiga companies.

Unfortunately they would need to call Microsoft, not IBM. I very much doubt M$ would be that happy to sell the CPU to outsiders.

If you'd be talking to IBM to create something similar to Xenon... well then you'd need to have some serious financial backing I believe.

[Iggy]

Yep! That kind of my point. It could be done, but you'd need the resources of a major backer. If only Bill McEwen claim to millions in resources had been true.

BTW - Does anyone know if anyone other than IBM manufacturers Xenon processors. Sony is still relying on IBM for its Cell processors (in fact they've just reduced the die size).