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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: takemehomegrandma on September 21, 2011, 10:29:35 AM
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At the Amiganoid 2011 event held on 17th of September 2011 in Essen/Germany, the MorphOS team were present and demonstrated the latest development version of MorphOS on PowerBooks (among other HW). During this time they also released the news that version 2.8 is "cancelled", and instead MorphOS will bump up to v3.0! Among the news is also a now official announcement of support for Power Book laptop computers from Apple.
Here is a MorphOS developer's comments on the issue:
The idea is MorphOS 3.0 would be the next public version and will introduce support for PowerBook (only 15" and 17" PowerBook5,6-5,9 which are the two latest revisions RevD and RevE):
- It will be a completely *free* (as in money free, nobody would have to pay) upgrade for already registered users.
- There will probably be some experimental wireless support for a few external cardbus cards featuring WPA/WPA2. That was demonstrated in Essen.
- There will be enhanced 3D drivers for the R2xx range of Radeon cards
- Proper use of AGP bus has been added where reasonable and available, helping on some low vmem issues with Mac mini for example
- There will be a builtin CD/DVD recording tool named Jalapeno.
- There will be various other enhancements which are not disclosed yet.
As a final note, G5 iMac/PowerMac support will not be released anytime soon. It was just some experiment. No development work is done on it. The focus is now on bug fixing and implementing remaining features for 3.0.
(Link (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8022&forum=3&start=46))
Also, it won't be released before December.
:)
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At the Amiganoid 2011 event held on 17th of September 2011 in Essen/Germany, the MorphOS team were present and demonstrated the latest development version of MorphOS on PowerBooks (among other HW). During this time they also released the news that version 2.8 is "cancelled", and instead MorphOS will bump up to v3.0! Among the news is also a now official announcement of support for Power Book laptop computers from Apple.
Here is a MorphOS developer's comments on the issue:
(Link (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8022&forum=3&start=46))
Also, it won't be released before December.
:)
I would think the Power Book support should in itself be enough to convince a lot of people to jump on board. Us MorphOS users have had it good and things are only about to get better!!!!
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Congrats to the MOS team for their continued progress!
It's really good to see such progress in all three Amiga-like OSes at the moment!
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I would think the Power Book support should in itself be enough to convince a lot of people to jump on board. Us MorphOS users have had it good and things are only about to get better!!!!
I agree with you.
I bought MorphOS 2.0, and I must say *I have got a lot* for the license fee. *MorphOS 2.0 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.0.html) in itself* was *entirely worth it*, since it was a true paradigm shift from MorphOS 1.4.x, with several *major* upgrades in key areas. But then there has been a steady flow of updates, some containing really fruity stuff, real new features, on top of the expected bugfixes and corrections. Just look at everything marked as "NEW" in these pages (and these lists aren't even entirely complete):
MorphOS 2.1 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.1.html)
MorphOS 2.2 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.2.html)
MorphOS 2.3 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.3.html)
MorphOS 2.4 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.4.html)
MorphOS 2.5 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.5.html)
MorphOS 2.6 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.6.html)
MorphOS 2.7 (http://morphos-team.net/releasenotes-2.7.html)
All this completely for free! :) Best spent EUR €111.11 ever, it has been totally worth it. This free upgrade policy makes it's by far the lowest cost Amiga NG option (and I don't even factor in the HW cost, I mean this entirely based on OS cost). On another "Amiga NG option" you would have paid all over again a few times during an evolution like this, but not here!
The deal has been that *all* upgrades within v2.x of MorphOS would be free of charge for registered users. But now they have announced that *also MorphOS 3.0 will be free of charge* to registered users! And that's major news IMHO! :) :D
:pint:
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Isn't AROS cheaper?
:nervous:
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@Yahoo (bot)
Come on, play nicely. We don't like it if MOS people come on and spoil AOS/AROS threads, so we should afford them the same respect. This is a thread about MOS, let's keep it that way.
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As a final note, G5 iMac/PowerMac support will not be released anytime soon. It was just some experiment. No development work is done on it.
That's a pity. :-(
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Isn't AROS cheaper?
:nervous:
Indeed it is! :) But *far* from as capable, hence I would rather pay EUR €111.11 for MorphOS than EUR €0.0 for AROS... ;) :p
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That's a pity. :-(
Well, maybe it's just that they have put a lot of work into this Power Book development (a lot of new, never previously existing software had to be written in order to support features only/mostly available on laptops, etc), and then when it's ready (the last PPC?), they will migrate somewhere else, and don't put any more resources on trying to support new machines of this architecture? ;) Highly speculative from my side of course, and probably not true at all, merely a reflection of my hopes and dreams! ;)
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@Yahoo (bot)
Come on, play nicely. We don't like it if MOS people come on and spoil AOS/AROS threads, so we should afford them the same respect. This is a thread about MOS, let's keep it that way.
This is a forum. I don't think there are (or should be) rules regarding comment/comparison between systems.
Certainly the price (not the only reason but one), is more than I am willing to spend for a hobby os - I believe morphos could be far more attractive to developers if this was changed. However, it is certainly good news for Morphos users (apart from the g5 imac/powerbook support). and good that existing users get free upgrades.
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This is a forum. I don't think there are (or should be) rules regarding comment/comparison between systems.
Certainly the price (not the only reason but one), is more than I am willing to spend for a hobby os - I believe morphos could be far more attractive to developers if this was changed. However, it is certainly good news for Morphos users (apart from the g5 imac/powerbook support). and good that existing users get free upgrades.
I take it you feel the same about AOS4 price wise ?
I also agree, anyone is and should be free to post on any thread as long as its on topic, which everyhtijng has been so far
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This is a forum. I don't think there are (or should be) rules regarding comment/comparison between systems.
Of course not, there are no crybabies here! :) Fire away! :D
Certainly the price (not the only reason but one), is more than I am willing to spend for a hobby os
Well, I understand that not everyone is prepared to pay money for their hobbies, we are all different and have all different priorities. But few hobbies are completely for free, and among the mature, "usable for real" NG OS's (which excludes AROS), setting up a system with MorphOS is by far the cheapest option, and the value you get just increased even more with the free 3.0 announcement! MorphOS is completely free to try out and use though, if you don't mind rebooting every 30 minutes! :)
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I think I'm getting it later this year. Just hope PowerMac prices keep getting down:)
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Its why I eneded up on MorphOS. I couldn't try out AmigaOS4 , no demo , no hardware to run it on.
From the continued support, free upgrades, and the fact from what I have read of AOS4, MorphOs is miles ahead of it feature wise, I am glad that they have got the sense to have a demo version.
I can not see an argument for not having a demo version.
As far as I know no one has cracked/hacked MorphOS to beat the 30 min limint on the demo, so I don't see piracy as reasons for the other camp not to go with a demo.
Or are they ashamed for people to try before they buy?
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I take it you feel the same about AOS4 price wise ?
Checking if I'm an os4 fanboy? :)
I feel the same, if not perhaps more-so as the hardware is more expensive too.
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Well, I understand that not everyone is prepared to pay money for their hobbies, we are all different and have all different priorities. But few hobbies are completely for free, and among the mature, "usable for real" NG OS's (which excludes AROS), setting up a system with MorphOS is by far the cheapest option, and the value you get just increased even more with the free 3.0 announcement! MorphOS is completely free to try out and use though, if you don't mind rebooting every 30 minutes! :)
30 mins is a bit annoying when trying to dev on it though - but enough to try for sure :) I've used the older morphos and done some coding on it on my cyberstormppc which had no limit of course. When morphos was released on the mac mini, I think it could have created a bigger storm and had a larger userbase had it been priced differently - perhaps so it would entice those who were not "current" amiga users. Also perhaps it could have had some developer programme to get more software support (which then gets more users). Just the way I see it, obviously not the same as the main morphos team, who I think are not that concerned about numbers.
I'm going off topic now anyway.....
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Checking if I'm an os4 fanboy? :)
I feel the same, if not perhaps more-so as the hardware is more expensive too.
Who me :)
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THe price and licensing does irritate me, but if they get powerbook support and wireless, I'll cough up the money, no hesitation. Just wanted that to be on record :)
As an aside, why has wireless taken so long? Is it not possible to adapt PPC linux drivers or something?
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Well, I'd give it a try, but my PowerBook is a 12" Aluminum (PowerBook 6,4) so no go. Although my Quicksilver G4 should actually be capable of it now that it's got a Radeon instead of a GeForce...
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Is this better than CommodoreOS?
:)
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Is this better than CommodoreOS?
:)
given that it turned out to just be ubuntu, I've been running CommodoreOS since before there was a Commodore USA!
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one comment regarding how much to pay for a hobby os, is that for me, i already moved on, for my "main os", and something like morphos might well be no more that say playing with a new "raspberry pi" or my recent thing "o2 joggler". the joggler was £50, has kept it's resale value and has been a lot of fun. I don't know if i would use morphos enough to justify the price tag for myself. I think the licensing is a little restrictive, and as a developer, I guess I dont get a public bugtracker, source and so on to play with. as that is part of the fun for me. Perhaps if I got morphos I would run it lots, I don't know.
Having said that, if the morphos team thought to give me a free key, that would be lovely ;-)
As I said before, I think offering developers morphos would be a good idea - Even I (Shock!) ported one app to morphos (hivelytracker), after getting it to work on os3, then later aros. or some order like that. I think morphos might have been last, but people asked for it, and I had an old morphos so it seemed a logical progression. (I think morphos gcc assumed signed chars and I had overlooked that in some code, causing a problem, my fail. and I had to change some new process call to specify ppc, but I made the effort and it works)
/ slightly drunk goodnight *burp*
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given that it turned out to just be ubuntu, I've been running CommodoreOS since before there was a Commodore USA!
Actually, it's Linux Mint (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/2-welcome-mat/7855-an-open-letter-to-the-community) now.
I'm so enthused about the choice I'll download me a copy and install it on the hardware I already have...
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Actually, it's Linux Mint (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/2-welcome-mat/7855-an-open-letter-to-the-community) now.
I'm so enthused about the choice I'll download me a copy and install it on the hardware I already have...
I forgot.. COS 2!
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Its why I eneded up on MorphOS. I couldn't try out AmigaOS4 , no demo , no hardware to run it on.
From the continued support, free upgrades, and the fact from what I have read of AOS4, MorphOs is miles ahead of it feature wise, I am glad that they have got the sense to have a demo version.
I can not see an argument for not having a demo version.
As far as I know no one has cracked/hacked MorphOS to beat the 30 min limint on the demo, so I don't see piracy as reasons for the other camp not to go with a demo.
Or are they ashamed for people to try before they buy?
A demo doesn't make much sense when you have to go out and buy/own specific hardware to run it on in the first place.
I can't see anyone going out and buying a Sam/AmigaONE and then wanting to try out the OS before making their mind up to spend the £100 on OS4.
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A few more pieces of info:
Well, let's try to answer some of those questions:
- there's no support for illuminated kb atm, but it might happen. Not a priority
- special keys already work to some extent and I intend to get them all to work
- trackpad supports two finger taps and scrolling
- dvi only works in mirror mode so far
- we'd like to get audio in to work at least for the PowerBook
- write support for hfs+ is unlikely, pfs will hopefully be included
(Link (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8022&forum=3&start=75))
:)
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Isn't AROS cheaper?
:nervous:
It amuses me how many times people bring this up. :)
Here are your current options:
Figure out how to set up Amithlon with your Hardware and enjoy an amazing fast Amiga experience, faster than you have ever known!
Buy a cheap Mac, throw down a one time payment and register MorphOS, and again enjoy an amazing fast Amiga experience like you have never known!!!
Throw down an ass load of cash and purchase one of the over priced Amiga OS 4.x compatible machines and enjoy an experience which I've heard is not all that fast (wouldn't know, have not been able or willing to afford this option, though my consider the X1000).
Download AROS for free and enjoy it for what it is. Mind you, all your classic Amiga experiences will have to be emulated, and I can assure you that UAE is no where near as fast as Amithlon, especially when it comes to the non WinUAE variants. So basically you will find your self not running classic Amiga software so much as you will be running new software written/ported over for AROS use.
I LOVE AROS, but it's not in the same league as MorphOS which actually allows you to run a large sum of the classic library without the need of emulation. Likewise MorphOS is so far advanced at this point that it is going to take all other Amiga clones a while to catch up with it and by that time MorphOS will be more advanced still!!!
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A demo doesn't make much sense when you have to go out and buy/own specific hardware to run it on in the first place.
I can't see anyone going out and buying a Sam/AmigaONE and then wanting to try out the OS before making their mind up to spend the £100 on OS4.
But there is a chance a lot of people already own the hardware capabale of running MorphOS so can try it out at no cost.
No one is already oging to own the hardware that can run AOS4 and not be running it.
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I just bought a macbook off ebay this week and was about to sell my 15" powerbook g4 1.67 machine. I love the computer as the form factor is just about perfect. Unfortunately it's gotten too slow and the newer mac applications don't run on it. I finally bought the intel mac just to keep up with the newer video stuff. If MorphOS runs good on the powerbook though I'll hang onto it to run MorphOS on it. Is there any word on a release date for this?
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Licensing terms changing anytime soon on MOS, or is there an easier way to transfer ownership? I've never got a clear answer on how reg's can be decommissioned from machine to machine, and have no intentions on using the same copy on multiple machines - I always pay for way I use, but can (and only would) only use 1 system at a time even if I had 50 regged copies and 50 PPC macs.
I have a couple Mac Mini's running it, unreg. Love MOS, but don't plan on keeping the mini as a MOS machine, will relegate it to running Linux once I get a beefier Mac for MOS, so I haven't regged MOS yet. I would in a heartbeat if the registration could be transferred.
That being said, once I do buy a beefier system than the mini's, I'll likely keep my eyes open for an even beefier system if I enjoy the experience. I have no intentions on selling any of the HW, but don't want to register and pay for an OS multiple times and only end up using one instance of it, you know?
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@coldfire
Release is planned to December this year.
@Duce
I am sure you would not pirate it but someone else would so it just wont work.
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If they can lock it to an initial piece of hardware, not sure what the big deal is about transferring said reg. to a different system - making the initial HW entirely incapable of running the regged version MOS was initially registered to. Even Windows doesn't lock licenses down like that if HW has been decommissioned, the OS can be re-purposed on new HW.
Shame really, I'd even pay a transfer fee for such a service. Only thing atm keeping me from becoming a regged MOS user. :(
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But there is a chance a lot of people already own the hardware capabale of running MorphOS so can try it out at no cost.
No one is already oging to own the hardware that can run AOS4 and not be running it.
Well there are thousands of Peg 2 owners who could run OS4.
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Well there are thousands of Peg 2 owners who could run OS4.
Indeed OS4 will never run on my Peg 2 while I own it, I had enough of HypeOS for the few months I owned a SAM.
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I run MorphOS on my 400Mhz Efika and it flies, so it'll be running at warp speed on a PowerBook!
I'm thinking of a way to freeze myself until December so I don't have to wait so long to get MorphOS 3.0 for my PowerBook.
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Indeed OS4 will never run on my Peg 2 while I own it, I had enough of HypeOS for the few months I owned a SAM.
Ironically, i've got my eye on a Peg2 purely to run OS4.
My Power Mac is much faster so that's what I run MorphOS on.
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How many peg2's are there?
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@coldfire
Release is planned to December this year.
@Duce
I am sure you would not pirate it but someone else would so it just wont work.
People who buy it now would still buy it: where's the loss ?
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I am sure you would not pirate it but someone else would so it just wont work.
Who? I think you're over-estimating the popularity of MorphOS.
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People who buy it now would still buy it: where's the loss ?
Very good point.
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This and the fpga replay makes me fully amigaized for long time :) .
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@warpdesign
Not every Amiga user is so honest than you are.
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Who? I think you're over-estimating the popularity of MorphOS.
Those who bought MorphOS license now.
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That being said, once I do buy a beefier system than the mini's, I'll likely keep my eyes open for an even beefier system if I enjoy the experience. I have no intentions on selling any of the HW, but don't want to register and pay for an OS multiple times and only end up using one instance of it, you know?
Well.. OTOH, you get free updates with MorphOS. On other systems you might have needed to buy paid updates multiple times for the _same_ hw while waiting that beefier system on MorphOS... for the same money you could have several usable MorphOS machines and still get them all updated if you want even if they all aren't used primarily anymore. Who knows if you want to get them back to MorphOS in some point anyway and that doesn't cause any problems with this scheme. With paid updates they surely would get obsoleted faster, if you have to buy updates for all machines separately.
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I haven't paid a dime for any updates with OS4. I can decommission any Windows license easily between hardware, locking out the previous hardware. I am not trying to be a dickhead, I want answers. One guy from the MOS camp said "it may be possible if you can prove your mac died in a fire", the others say "no", or simply won't respond. I'm not trying to screw anyone, I want to pay for a product I like!
Again, the problem being is I have a nice Mac Mini sitting here I would love to register MOS on for the interim, but I know I will end up wanting MOS regged on a more powerful system not long after. I should be able to decommission said Mini so it simply cannot run said regged MOS again and transfer the license, even if it's on my dime. For you barking about "piracy", it's locked to hardware keys in some form I assume. I am not asking for a VLK key or site license deals, lol. I am asking if ownership of said key be moved to different hardware, and unless they do things in a completely insane way as far as common sense hardware lock-ins go, all I see is a cash grab and inconvenience.
I have no intentions of regging an operating system 4 times over and only using 1 machine, sorry. The licensing terms are draconian at best and I can't seem to get an answer out of anyone.
I have no interest in buying it now and selling it (MOS) along with the hardware I still want to keep around running Linux.
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Those who bought MorphOS license now.
Let me get this right. You believe that all those who have paid for a MOS license would pirate it if you didn't tie each registration to a single machine?
You've just called all your customers thieves.
Classy.
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Being myself (like many others) a former Amiga game pirate and now a registered MorphOS user, I think itix might have a genuine reason not to trust "me"... ;)
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The license situation doesn't bother me. It's tied to the machine so if you want to upgrade to new hardware just sell the old machine with the license and get another one. It won't be hard to sell. It's my understanding that if your machine breaks they'll give you a new license file. Also, I can't imagine why I'd want MorphOS on every mac in the house. One is enough for me.
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Let me get this right. You believe that all those who have paid for a MOS license would pirate it if you didn't tie each registration to a single machine?
You've just called all your customers thieves.
Classy.
No, I dont belive that all those who have paid for MOS license would pirate it.
I am sorry if I offended you.
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I haven't paid a dime for any updates with OS4. I can decommission any Windows license easily between hardware, locking out the previous hardware. I am not trying to be a dickhead, I want answers. One guy from the MOS camp said "it may be possible if you can prove your mac died in a fire", the others say "no", or simply won't respond. I'm not trying to screw anyone, I want to pay for a product I like!
Weren't 4.0, 4.1 and isn't 4.2 paid updates? And can you transfer your OS4 bought for AmigaOne for Pegasos2 use for example?
And what would be a good way to lock out the previous hardware? Any need for online interaction when installing is absolutely no-no. With this kind of small business you can't trust there will be services available "forever". Blacklisting machines in next updates won't stop machine being used with current and earlier versions and might need too much work to kept updated... but I guess that would be only reasonable option...
Anyway, if your previous machine breaks down, it's known that keyfile can be transferred to next machine.
Again, the problem being is I have a nice Mac Mini sitting here I would love to register MOS on for the interim, but I know I will end up wanting MOS regged on a more powerful system not long after.
If it has 64M vmem and you're not interested about PowerBooks, I'd say go for it, register and enjoy :) Or get the PowerMac G4 you know will be powerful enough and register for it. But if you're waiting some other new powerful system like G5 macs, it's not going to happen in that "not long after" time for sure. You know your options for next couple of years and I think it should be enough to make a decision to reg the system you like now.
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Download AROS for free and enjoy it for what it is. Mind you, all your classic Amiga experiences will have to be emulated, and I can assure you that UAE is no where near as fast as Amithlon, especially when it comes to the non WinUAE variants. So basically you will find your self not running classic Amiga software so much as you will be running new software written/ported over for AROS use.
I LOVE AROS, but it's not in the same league as MorphOS which actually allows you to run a large sum of the classic library without the need of emulation. Likewise MorphOS is so far advanced at this point that it is going to take all other Amiga clones a while to catch up with it and by that time MorphOS will be more advanced still!!!
Well the x86 CPU speed is faster and cheaper than Apple G4 PPC hardware. I can't see it being slow on a peanuts $99 AMD Athlon XP3900+ box surely?
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I would assume locks to HW are done on unique chip identifiers like on other platforms, whether it be a MAC addy, CPU serial identifiers, BIOS, various firmwares, etc. Not quite sure how MOS does it, to be fair. Windows does it in a similar fashion where you generally must call MS to decommission a license, which I recently had to do on an old core 2 quad PC I repurposed from Vista to Linux. Took 3 minutes on the phone to do.
AFAIK, there has not been any upgrade fee on the 4.x OS 4 updates, yet anyways. I've not paid a dime thus far anyways, but my SAM came with 4.1 and the only updates have essentially been small "service packs" like u1, u2, u3 so far. I would not have paid for any of the u1, u2, u3 packs if they were pay for, tbh - and likely won't pay for 4.2 if they decided to charge for that upgrade. The OS is immature (OS4 - albeit fun), so justifying payment for what is essentially bugfixes is hard to warrant.
I fail to see the difference in a "broken down" machine and a decommissioned machine, I suppose, heh. Either way, it's a Mac no longer using the software that was paid for. What is the criteria in such a case? Not sure what the developers would require as "proof" that a machine is no longer at all functional, and what would be preventing from an otherwise honest guy like me from simply saying "it's broken" and demanding a license transfer and putting said machine on a shelf, never to be used again with MOS or anything else. Once said license was transferred it couldn't run regged MOS anyways, no different than a broken machine in the end.
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@warpdesign
Not every Amiga user is so honest than you are.
It's not a question of being honest (do you mean people pirating software aren't honest ? I'm afraid all Amiga users who pirated MacOS copies for their emulator are not honest then ;))
It's a question of being a die-hard fan. And you have to be a fan to buy a 170 euros licence for a hobby OS (by saying so I'm not saying huge work hasn't been done). And die hard fans will buy the OS, even though it could be pirated. So I don't think there would be any loss. The only lost is for "honest" people as you call them that have problems transferring licences,...
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@warpdesing
It is a hobby OS but it never was 170 eur, just 150 eur =P (And currently it can get it at 111 eur...)
But indeed, who didnt have pirated MacOS copies?
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cool. I just registered my version of MorphOS for my Mac Mini... waiting for 3.0 :)
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No, I dont belive that all those who have paid for MOS license would pirate it..
That doesn't actually read a lot better, to be honest. Returning customers are trustworthy, but not potential new ones?
I don't yet own a machine capable of running MorphOS 2. Though I must admit I never much cared for the licensing model, I have absolutely no intention of "stealing" the OS if/when I do get one. IMHO, most of the users left in the amiga community that are remotely interested in "next gen" scene aren't likely to be the old game disk pirates of old. They all buggered off to the chipped console market years ago. What's left are genuine enthusiasts who I am willing to guess are mature adults with jobs.
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That doesn't actually read a lot better, to be honest. Returning customers are trustworthy, but not potential new ones?
Does it say so? Well, lets try again:
I just think not everyone would buy MorphOS license if they were given a chance to use it without cost.
IMHO, most of the users left in the amiga community that are remotely interested in "next gen" scene aren't likely to be the old game disk pirates of old.
You really think so? Road *cough* show *cough* *cough* 6 *cough* 8 *cough* k *cough*
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most of the users left in the amiga community that are remotely interested in "next gen" scene aren't likely to be the old game disk pirates of old. They all buggered off to the chipped console market years ago. What's left are genuine enthusiasts who I am willing to guess are mature adults with jobs.
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3959467/AmigaOS_4.0_Final.lha
http://thepiratebay.ee/torrent/4762112/Amigaos_4.1_for_SAM440EP
Of course these are pointless as the OS is only available for closed HW. You seriously think that if the OS would be available say for Mac HW this kind of thing wouldn't happen? Oh but it does, there's this warez version for Mac mini...
http://extratorrent.com/torrent/1430066/AmigaOS+4+0+Install+for+Mac+Mini+zip.html
http://macminios4.blogspot.com/
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Does it say so? Well, lets try again:
I just think not everyone would buy MorphOS license if they were given a chance to use it without cost.
Well, that certainly sounds less of a sweeping condemnation of new users, which was the bone of my contention.
You seriously think that if the OS would be available say for Mac HW this kind of thing wouldn't happen?
It would but frankly I don't really know much of a difference it would actually make. You'll always get people that believe it's a crime to pay for anything, but the amiga scene is so small these days that it seems only real hardcore fans would remain and of those, an even smaller minority of people are OS4/MOS users.
Maybe I'm wrong about that.
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IMHO, most of the users left in the amiga community that are remotely interested in "next gen" scene aren't likely to be the old game disk pirates of old. They all buggered off to the chipped console market years ago. What's left are genuine enthusiasts who I am willing to guess are mature adults with jobs.
the last sentence applies to me..but the pirate part does also.. lol.
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But indeed, who didnt have pirated MacOS copies?
Die-hard MacOS fans ? Much like die-hard MorphOS fans ? ;)
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I just think not everyone would buy MorphOS license if they were given a chance to use it without cost.
Well, to tell the truth, I was considering leaving a partition on the PowerBook G4 I'm getting for toying around with MOS, which I would've considered registering if I liked it. Now that I find I'm considered a potential pirate for even being interested, and that I'm not even allowed to transfer one license across machines? I don't think I'll be bothering at all. Not many alternative OSes want to be selling themselves on being more restrictive than Microsoft.
Good job, guys. Really sold me on that idea.
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Whats so restrictive about letting users test/use Morphos in 30 minute sessions?
Can you download a trial version of 0Sex and do that?
Windows versions also have a built in time limit, any sane computer user
wants to :hammer: the whole thing in the first 30 minutes :) Priceless.
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Oh, the 30 minutes thing is fair enough. But if I can't transfer a license from one computer to another when I sell it, then there's $200 down the crapper.
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Oh, the 30 minutes thing is fair enough. But if I can't transfer a license from one computer to another when I sell it, then there's $200 down the crapper.
selling it of for $200 while you keep a pirate version... their claim was right, your a potential pirate.
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Basically. And if I can't legitimately use a product without being hamstrung, what incentive is there for me to not pirate it?
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Basically. And if I can't legitimately use a product without being hamstrung, what incentive is there for me to not pirate it?
your not being hamstrung. you buy it you use it as much you want. if you sell it your not allowed to keep a pirate version of it. this is not morphos only but also windows,mac os x and even amigaos. its called copyright law and same law for music and movies to... but i guess you pirated so much in your younger days on your amiga500, that you still think your being hamstrung if you cant copy it as much as you want to. maybe you should just stick to linux and freeware?, just a thought.
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A1260, why does wanting to transfer registration to an entirely different machine - therefore making the original registered copy of the software entirely inoperable in anything other than "demo" 30 minute form on the initial machine make a person a pirate? Ludicrous claims out of some of you. To reiterate: User regs the OS on Mac #1. User buys a better Mac to use, wants to transfer the OS license to the new Mac, therefore making the initial license entirely invalid on "Mac 1". User keeps Mac 1 for OS X, Linux, or a doorstop, not that it matters much what he does with it, the end result being is "Mac 1" is no longer considered a MOS box. How's that equal piracy in the least?
No one wants to invest in one machine/one copy of an OS that they may only use the HW short term, then either be stuck with a copy of an OS on something that's sitting in a closet. Mac minis make great little linux servers, and that's what I keep 'em around for and will never sell a single one of them (and ebay is a PITA).
Again, read slowly: some people have no interest in dicking around selling old equipment/SW license combos on ebay if they choose to upgrade to better HW. When I buy a beefier Mac for MOS, there should be an option to decommission that copy on the now unused hardware, even if it's a pay for service for the reg transfer. AGAIN - no one is wanting to run 1 copy on 50 different machines, we're talking OS locked to a particular machine. If I want 10 MOS rigs, I'll register it 10 times and I always pay for what I use.
Has absolutely NOTHING to do with piracy and tbh the implications are rather sad, lol. How the concept of "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" got so bent out of shape is beyond me.
I'm fine with MOS handling regs as they see fit, but this piracy babble from the fanboys, nah, lol. I was very eager to start developing for the platform, but man - some of you guys sure can put a guy off with lack of logic.
ONE COPY BOUGHT, ONE COPY USED = PIRACY? Sorry, your logic is retarded.
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you buy a license to use the software, not to own it for good. you better start reading the little text on the paper that come with your software/product.
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Easy solution: think long and hard about which machine you want to be your permanent MorphOS box before registering.
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you buy a license to use the software, not to own it for good. you better start reading the little text on the paper that come with your software/product.
Which is why I won't be buying a license. Or bothering with the software, really.
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I've been using the unregistered version of MorphOS on my Efika for a while now. I never paid the license fee because I've always intended on getting more powerful hardware to run MorphOS on when I take the dive and register it. In that time I've found it to be a dream to use, and I would far rather use MorphOS than any other OS like OSX, Linux, Haiku, RiscOS, or that other one from Microsoft. The only OS I maybe like more is AmigaOS 3.1, not because it's superior but because I just love and enjoy using it so much, and it has screen dragging unlike MorphOS. But MorphOS is awesome, it's got everything I want in an OS so once MorphOS 3.0 comes out I'll be using it for nearly everything, I can't see the Linux PC getting much use after that. Oh, this is my new hardware to run MorphOS 3.0 on come December:
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6213/6274103699_ac59dacf10_z.jpg)
I try not to let the grumpy developers turn me off using a wonderful OS. No one has really been able to provide a better alternative system to their current hardware-locking registration system so I guess we'll just have to put up with it for now. I'm sure that no one would have any trouble selling used hardware with a MorphOS license if they advertised it on the Amiga and MorphZone forums.
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A1260, why does wanting to transfer registration to an entirely different machine - therefore making the original registered copy of the software entirely inoperable in anything other than "demo" 30 minute form on the initial machine make a person a pirate?
That is, you would remove key from your another machince while you are using it on another.
Ludicrous claims out of some of you. To reiterate: User regs the OS on Mac #1. User buys a better Mac to use, wants to transfer the OS license to the new Mac, therefore making the initial license entirely invalid on "Mac 1". User keeps Mac 1 for OS X, Linux, or a doorstop, not that it matters much what he does with it, the end result being is "Mac 1" is no longer considered a MOS box. How's that equal piracy in the least?
By the way did you notice you have already got two copies of OS X?
Has absolutely NOTHING to do with piracy and tbh the implications are rather sad, lol. How the concept of "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" got so bent out of shape is beyond me.
Any idea how to restrict this to "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" and not being shared to friends? I have no problem understanding what you are trying to say here but it just isnt possible. If it wasnt tied to one machine it would have to be tied to one user or just use generic key that works everywhere.
I'm fine with MOS handling regs as they see fit, but this piracy babble from the fanboys, nah, lol.
Hmm... I guess English speaking world is quite sensitive to pirate/piracy word. My apologizes.
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Well, that certainly sounds less of a sweeping condemnation of new users, which was the bone of my contention.
I apologize my English speaking skills. It is sometimes geting me into trouble :-)
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Oh, the 30 minutes thing is fair enough. But if I can't transfer a license from one computer to another when I sell it, then there's $200 down the crapper.
When selling the computer you are selling MorphOS license with it. If you manage to find new buyer interested to use MorphOS you may get at least some of your money back. So it is not a total loss.
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Any idea how to restrict this to "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" and not being shared to friends?
A scout's honor to delete & destroy the key? ;)
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When selling the computer you are selling MorphOS license with it. If you manage to find new buyer interested to use MorphOS you may get at least some of your money back. So it is not a total loss.
If I find a MorphOS-interested buyer, I doubt they're going to pay a whole $150 extra for the license, so I'd still come out behind, whereas if I could simply transfer my license, I wouldn't be out anything except hardware costs. I'd even be willing to pay for upgrades if I could do that (upgrades upgrades, anyway, as opposed to bug-fix service-pack stuff.)
In that time I've found it to be a dream to use, and I would far rather use MorphOS than any other OS like OSX, Linux, Haiku, RiscOS, or that other one from Microsoft.
Ah, I actually really wanted to give Haiku a try, but to my surprise (considering the BeOS heritage) the PPC port is completely unloved by anybody except for apparently one guy who occasionally posts to his blog about efforts to get it going again :( Sad, it looks like a nifty system, and it was incredibly snappy on my little x86 netbook when I tried the live image.
I would like to run something Amiga-based at least as a hobby OS, but I'm moving away from x86 hardware and it seems like that's got the only self-hosting version of AROS at the moment (and if I'm going to run a Linux-hosted system I'll just run Linux,) and with this licensing frolderol I'm a bit turned-off to the idea of MorphOS...maybe I'll at least take a look, though.
Oh, this is my new hardware to run MorphOS 3.0 on come December
Nice :D Is that the 1.67GHz high-resolution model? I've got one in the mail myself :)
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Any idea how to restrict this to "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" and not being shared to friends? I have no problem understanding what you are trying to say here but it just isnt possible. If it wasnt tied to one machine it would have to be tied to one user or just use generic key that works everywhere.
You can make a USB key with a unique serial number for very little money. Much better option than using the MAC address.
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There are many ways a copy of an OS can be locked to a specific set of hardware... It's been done for many years.
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Any idea how to restrict this to "1 copy paid for, 1 copy used" and not being shared to friends? I have no problem understanding what you are trying to say here but it just isnt possible.
Why would you want such a restriction ?
If his friends are fans, they already have (or will) bought it. If they are not, they wouldn't have and won't buy it. By not restricting it, you gain a new user, maybe a new developer, and you don't loose one.
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I wish it was the 1.67Ghz model, but they're going for waaay too much. It's actually the smallest, slowest model supported, the 15" 1.5Ghz G4, but I don't mind because it's just as fast as the Mac Mini I had hoped to get, and it is smaller so it'll fit behind my monitor easier, which I hope to use through the DVI port my Efika currently takes up. Unfortunately the screen is busted and needs a good wiggle and a bashing to work, and one of the RAM slots is also dead so I can only upgrade it to 1GB (currently it has 512MB). But it only cost me $125 + $25 postage (and another $25 for an aftermarket PSU which it didn't come with). I really shouldn't have spent this much but I was forced to buy it after I impulsively sent the offer of $125 and it was accepted (the original asking price was $170).
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Ah. Still, the 1.5GHz G4s are no slouch; even the 1.33GHz model I had briefly gave my 1.6GHz Atom netbook a run for its money. Nice :)
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@mongo
I could support that idea but it is not (only) up to me to decide.
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You can make a USB key with a unique serial number for very little money. Much better option than using the MAC address.
Much better for whom exactly?
It is safe to say that a very large percentage of all future sales will be for portable computers. In the case of an Apple Powerbook, having to carry around a USB key is not only impractical, but it also means you lose 50% of the available USB ports just so you can run the operating system.
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whilst i don't reallty like the registration model for morhpos , it is what it is.
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you buy a license to use the software, not to own it for good. you better start reading the little text on the paper that come with your software/product.
Not in the EU you don't, post-transaction EULA's are invalid.
Anyway, if MOS was really so popular that people want to pirate it then it would have been cracked by now.
The fact it hasn't speaks volumes.
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You really think so? Road *cough* show *cough* *cough* 6 *cough* 8 *cough* k *cough*
Roadshow has been pirated?? Do you have a link to the news?
No, I dont belive that all those who have paid for MOS license would pirate it.
I am sorry if I offended you.
You haven't offended me. I will at some point probably register MorphOS but it won't be until I have made a firm decision on which machine I will run it on.
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I wish it was the 1.67Ghz model, but they're going for waaay too much. It's actually the smallest, slowest model supported, the 15" 1.5Ghz G4, but I don't mind because it's just as fast as the Mac Mini I had hoped to get, and it is smaller so it'll fit behind my monitor easier, which I hope to use through the DVI port my Efika currently takes up. Unfortunately the screen is busted and needs a good wiggle and a bashing to work, and one of the RAM slots is also dead so I can only upgrade it to 1GB (currently it has 512MB). But it only cost me $125 + $25 postage (and another $25 for an aftermarket PSU which it didn't come with). I really shouldn't have spent this much but I was forced to buy it after I impulsively sent the offer of $125 and it was accepted (the original asking price was $170).
Well the Mac mini 1.5 GHz just shows that a G4 1.5 is pretty fast and powerful. And also when money may be tight, I think you really got a good price and you won't regret that purchase. Lucky you have your powerbook already - I am still looking for a good offer though.
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whilst i don't reallty like the registration model for morhpos , it is what it is.
indeed. In dreamworld there could be nicer options, but the deal is a well defined take it or leave it thing. I took it twice alrady and haven't regreted it. I think I will do it a 3rd time soon and am optimistic that I will not regret it that time, too.
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@commodorejohn
I too have been a little bit concerned about the licensing issue, but as my project requires building a really nice looking case for my G4 Mac mobo, it's taking dear time, so I'm not in particular hurry. So I've been wondering if it occurred to you (or anyone else) to actually ask the MorpOS people nicely before starting to bitch about it. I mean - they've apparently got the best loved OS (at least development-wise) in the Amiga scene, so I would assume they might be willing to address the issue if asked nicely. You always have the option to start bitching AFTER you ask nicely and nothing happens. I think that's how it's supposed to work among civilised people, right?
And speaking of Windows licensing scheme as an example - there are two kinds of licences you can buy: the OEM licence which gets tied to the HW when you first install it, and the 'box' version, which is freely transferable BUT more expensive, so perhaps something along those lines might be applied here?
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Much better for whom exactly?
It is safe to say that a very large percentage of all future sales will be for portable computers. In the case of an Apple Powerbook, having to carry around a USB key is not only impractical, but it also means you lose 50% of the available USB ports just so you can run the operating system.
A USB key is small enough that you can leave it plugged in all the time, and if you're carrying around things to plug into the USB ports, you can carry around a USB hub too.
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Roadshow has been pirated?? Do you have a link to the news?
Pirated as in stolen from Olsen's desk, cracked and uploaded to Pirate Bay? No. But it has been leaked outside OS4 beta testers years ago. I doubt anyone is using it anymore, though, since almost everyone has left Amiga. But anyway, I find it is good example how things just happen. When MorphOS 1.5 was leaked you could find it even from, humm, #morphos channel :-)
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I might be repeating myself, or this might have been already answered in the middle of those extremely long threads around here, but:
1) I got a fine 1.67 PB. Not the latest one, but the first 1.67.
2) I paid a reasonable amount of money for it, including stupid Brazilian custom taxes
3) Its perfectly fine, up and running OSX leopard.
4) I'm willing to buy MOS 3.0 when it comes out
5) if my beloved PB fails (like any hardware, specially those extremely hot steve jobs notebooks), I'm unable to transfer MOS license to another HW?
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No if your hardware fails, the procedure is to contact the MorphOS devs who will inform you of the procedure to obtain a new kwy for your new hardware.
I repeat in the vent of hardware failure you can transfer the key to a new machine after contacting the MorphOS devs.
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Anyway, if MOS was really so popular that people want to pirate it then it would have been cracked by now.
Although MorphOS probably has the best copy protection any Amiga product ever has had. And as there aren't any active crackers left even in classic Amiga....
But anyway, it would be silly to claim that there wouldn't be interest for pirating it. People pirated AOS3.5/9, Amithlon, MorphOS 1.5, some OS4 versions etc, why wouldn't they do that still. Many still use Amithlon etc and only fraction have actually bought it. Lots of people having Pegasos systems with MorphOS 1.4 still.. I bet we'd have many of them using 2.x if it would be possible anyway without costs. Only thing preventing it is that it isn't cracked.
I bet there would be something like 10x more users and 50% less registrations if it would be available freely (cracked or legally), but it's up to developers what they want. Illegal copying never ends if it's possible, no matter how small the community gets. People like to use systems because they like to use it.. it has nothing to do with honesty. Some percentage just want to do it legally and some don't or just can't (afford to).
BTW. how reliable those USB dongles would be... you can't make backups of them like you can with the keyfile. Suddenly your system is useless if it breaks down or you lose it. And if there wouldn't be any service from the team anymore etc..
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if my beloved PB fails, I'm unable to transfer MOS license to another HW?
No they allow a transfer from broken hardware to functioning one. If that happens you should get in contact with the MorphOS team directly.
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What part of "lock registered OS instance to unique hardware identifiers" don't you people understand? Hardware components have unique keys, as does the software. One will not work without the other, therefore your "piracy" angle is a crock of horseplop. You can find code on the net going back years on PPC HW how to do this.
It already does this in some form, ffs - it's 15+ year old tech, do your homework. The issue is decommissioning an OS key from a previous HW "key" to a new one after the old HW component is no longer used or otherwise unfunctional.
I don't care how a particular company chooses to exercise copy protection, but the clownshow going on here and the avoidance that it really isn't 1993 still is hysterical.
Mongo, the USB/dongle model is workable, but not by todays standards. Most modern PC components have internal serial type numbers that can be tapped into that there's no real need for dongles. USB ports are too valuable to waste with tacked on bobs of hardware, esp on laptops.
So Takemehomegrandma, what you just told me. I can reg this now for my Mini, I can come back to the devs with photos of said broken Mini once I find a better machine, politely stating that "this machine no longer works, I would like the keyfile transferred to another PPC Mac". Right? Broken original hardware, I can re-use the initial license, yeah? OK, we're on the same page here. See the lack of logic?
A scumbag user could also take a hammer to said $25 Mini to save himself a re-reg fee - hell, pull the mobo out and put in in an oven and wreck the traces, mail it to the devs for "proof". I find it sort of depressing that I would be better off deliberately destroying or otherwise making good HW broken, when people would be happy to pay for transferring a license that is again LOCKED TO ONE HARDWARE INSTANCE and maybe say donating old Mini's to a school or something. Initial license is invalid! POOF! GONE! HW is no longer in the database, what you paid for is simply applied to a new entirely unique piece of hardware that it again IS LOCKED TO.
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Initial license is invalid! POOF! GONE! HW is no longer in the database, what you paid for is simply applied to a new entirely unique piece of hardware that it again IS LOCKED TO.
What you're suggesting would require active polling of a remote server, something which we certainly wouldn't want to do (not only we think it'd be quite invasive to require someone to connect to some server regularly, it'd also require constant network connectivity). Unless of course if you have a suggestion on how to perform bulletproof remote license revocation?
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No if your hardware fails, the procedure is to contact the MorphOS devs who will inform you of the procedure to obtain a new kwy for your new hardware.
I repeat in the vent of hardware failure you can transfer the key to a new machine after contacting the MorphOS devs.
Who and what differentiates a HW failure from some jerk deliberately wrecking a piece of PPC Mac HW to take advantage of said offering? I assume you I can kill any piece of hardware in a matter of seconds in an entirely deliberate fashion and no one would be none the wiser. I could tell you how to pop any cap on a mobo with a single jumper wire and it could never be detected as being deliberately trashed.
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Who and what differentiates a HW failure from some jerk deliberately wrecking a piece of PPC Mac HW to take advantage of said offering?
I'm puzzled, how would that taking advantage of the offering?
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BTW. how reliable those USB dongles would be... you can't make backups of them like you can with the keyfile. Suddenly your system is useless if it breaks down or you lose it. And if there wouldn't be any service from the team anymore etc..
While I'm none too keen on the notion of dongles, I would point out that it doesn't have to be an "always plugged in" model. It could simply be the end component of the registration process, plugging it in when un-registering from one machine to put it in "available" state, then into the new machine so that can be registered, at which point it flips to "in use" state. That would make it something you could just lock away in the box with your MOS CD and only pull it out when you're doing a migration; much preferable to the "always-in" model.
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Although MorphOS probably has the best copy protection any Amiga product ever has had.
There are pros and there are cons with all licensing philosophies. If you add up all pros I think that they outweight the cons in the MorphOS case. For instance, I think you should weight in the fact that this license method makes it possible to download a generic ISO containing the entire OS *for free* (they could have put it on "the Pirate Bay" themselves even, to save server bandwidth) that works on *all* supported machines, and you can use it for for 30 minutes without paying a dime. It's the full version! Try before you buy, on mainstream machines available from *everywhere* (i.e. *not* just from the MorphOS Team or its partners, as is the case with a competing solution), no need to use strange, custom, low quantity HW that can only be bought for over price! And you have been granted free upgrades all the way from 2.0 to 2.7, and now even 3.0, which is great! The other way is to do it "the OS4 way"; i.e. only provide the OS on a physical CD as a hardcoded bundle to expensive, low volume, custom made HW, where the HW is function as a big, fat dongle, no chance to try it before you buy it, etc. OS4 team prefer it that way, the MorphOS team prefers it their way. It's up to the customer to decide what *they* prefer. But I must say that from these licensing discussions that pops up on a semi-regular basis, I get the feeling that some people simply don't want to pay *at all*... :(
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If they went the dongle approach, you'd have to wait however long it is to get it shipped from europe and it would increase the cost of the license.
I don't have a problem with the way licensing is implemented for MorphOS. The license I bought for my emac was by far the best bang for the buck I ever got on an amiga investment. If you could just transfer the licenses around then the MorphOS crew would have to require payment for upgrades if they ever wanted any new funds. As it is right now the license is stuck for the machine but it looks like upgrades are always free. That's a pretty good balance imho. I'd have a hard time complaining that I couldn't transfer my license from my emac to the most bad ass ppc PowerMac/MacPro or PowerBook after those guys put in all that time and effort to support those models.
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At the Amiganoid 2011 event held on 17th of September 2011 in Essen/Germany, the MorphOS team were present and demonstrated the latest development version of MorphOS on PowerBooks (among other HW). During this time they also released the news that version 2.8 is "cancelled", and instead MorphOS will bump up to v3.0! Among the news is also a now official announcement of support for Power Book laptop computers from Apple.
Here is a MorphOS developer's comments on the issue:
(Link (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8022&forum=3&start=46))
Also, it won't be released before December.
:)
Congratulations for the users of this Amiga operative system, Amiga you don't forget!
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Some percentage just want to do it legally and some don't or just can't (afford to).
Exactly. Those people wouldn't buy it whether it is copy protected or not, so the MOSTeam haven't lost anything.
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With all due respect to the people in this thread, I just realized I'm not helping the situation in the least by stirring up horseplop here in this thread that was meant to simply inform us all of the next MOS update.
Apologies, and I'll be in contact with the devs via PM with any concerns I have as it isn't fair to be what must seem like dragging their name thru the mud via their news posting.
If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem - personal note to myself taken, so again - my apologies.
Duce
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Right now I only have two questions that have gone unanswered about MorphOS 3.0.
First will it have an improved R300 driver that supports 3D (for the Powerbooks)?
Second, will it enable wireless LAN?
So far, no answer to these two questions.
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@ Iggy
There was mention somewhere quite a while back that wireless support was one thing holding up the release. 3D, too. So they're both a definite "maybe" :)
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Slightly OT:
Can I use MorphOS on my iBook G3 or do I need a G4 based system?
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Dunno bout the 3D (but AFAIR it will either be in 3.0 or 3.1) wireless will only be supported via PCMCIA-cards (with the driver ported from AROS). Not sure what will be the deal on these. Will we each have to buy our own licences, or did the MorphOS-team make a bulk-deal with Mr Cafferkey ?
Anyways my card is finally on the way after the seller f####ed up my pick up address.
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Slightly OT:
Can I use MorphOS on my iBook G3 or do I need a G4 based system?
You need a Powerbook 15" or 17" with 1.67 GHz or some 1.5 GHz models. See http://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/powerbooks.html
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Also slightly OT due to boredom of path of the current topic... does anyone have a nicely done MorphOS CD label suitable for a LightScribe disc? Graphic image or Nero's label format would be appreciated.
(Sorry, some of the more recent are actually relevant.)
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2 questions:
1 - Exactly how can someone prove their machine is legitimately broken? Suppose my Mac-mini that i bought last week broke next week. What do i do? I live in Australia. What do i do now? Can someone give an accurate account where they managed to get their license switched over?
Logically the hard drive will be the first thing to go so if i get it replaced will this affect my license? I'm guessing no but i still think it's an important question.
2 - About Morphos 3.0. Has Bluetooth support been improved? There is talk on Morphzone about it not working properly. Has this been fixed? I am using a corded trackball and have a BT Apple keyboard but have not tried it yet with MOS. This is because I have a BT kit but haven't got around to putting it in yet.
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2 questions:
1 - Exactly how can someone prove their machine is legitimately broken? Suppose my Mac-mini that i bought last week broke next week. What do i do? I live in Australia. What do i do now? Can someone give an accurate account where they managed to get their license switched over?
Logically the hard drive will be the first thing to go so if i get it replaced will this affect my license? I'm guessing no but i still think it's an important question.
Changing a hdd or any other compount except the mainboard (or to be precise any other compount than the NIC) is not affecting the license nor requires any special action. The license is bound to the MAC address.
If eventually the machine fails there is no standard way to prove it's broken, just contact the MorpOS team in taht case and they will tell you what to do. It's probably a thing of word and trust - don't misuse it.
2 - About Morphos 3.0. Has Bluetooth support been improved? There is talk on Morphzone about it not working properly. Has this been fixed? I am using a corded trackball and have a BT Apple keyboard but have not tried it yet with MOS. This is because I have a BT kit but haven't got around to putting it in yet.
I think Bluetooth is not improved yet, since it isn't supported by MorphOS actively at all yet. The thing that some BT devices work is a property of the Apple firmware that adds a layer for some BT devices and makes them virtual usb devices (you need to mount it initially using OS X). At least that's how I understood that issue.
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The Apple-(Aluminium)-BT-keyboard does indeed work that way with an MacMini and MorphOS.
Mice however seem to be limited to simple 3 button models (wheels and xtra stuff will just be ignored).
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It's probably a thing of word and trust - don't misuse it.
But why would the MorphOS team have more trust in people who claim their hardware is broken than those who claim they want to move the license to different hardware? They've already made it clear that they don't trust their users, so if I buy a license for one of my minis, and later find some PB that I want to use the license on instead while keeping my mini, I'd use all kinds of tricks to fool the MorphOS team to believe my mini is broken. Lucky for them, I 've lost interest, all this nonsense requires way more energy than it's worth.
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They've already made it clear that they don't trust their users, so if I buy a license for one of my minis, and later find some PB that I want to use the license on instead while keeping my mini, I'd use all kinds of tricks to fool the MorphOS team to believe my mini is broken.
Hmm?
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@Iggy
There will be 3D support and limited wireless support with WPA/WPA2 using an external wireless card.
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Will it support the internal wireless if I provide the appropriate files from another source? I've got it working under Debian...
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Will it support the internal wireless if I provide the appropriate files from another source? I've got it working under Debian...
If you can write SANA-II driver I dont see any reason why it could not be used.
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I'll make sure to forward your message on to the MorphOS Developer Team kolla, so they will be ready to provide the appropriate response to your "your all kinds of tricks".
@commodorejohn,
Provide your information about getting the internal Airport Extreme card working to the MorphOS Development Team, i am sure they will be interested in it, but it may take more than you think to access the internal Airport Extreme card from MorphOS3.0, I mean having a driver is not the only obstacle to getting wireless networking enabled using the internal Airport Extreme card, unless I am understanding the current situation incorrectly. It would be great if a solution could be found to enable use of the Airport Extreme in the G4 PowerBook from MorphOS3.0, so please share what ever you know and have used from Debian to get it working with the MorphOS Dev. Team and I will hope for the best.
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Yes, the built-in wireless card works under Linux. No, it won't directly give us wireless under MorphOS.
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I'll make sure to forward your message on to the MorphOS Developer Team kolla, so they will be ready to provide the appropriate response to your "your all kinds of tricks".
Hardly any need is there, they're following this thread already. Are you saying it would be against a law, or the license, or whatever, to lie and trick the MorphOS Team to believe that a machine I own and that used to have MorphOS on it, is broken?
My point is just that the current licensing scheme encourages dishonousty, telling them "I've decided to use my mini for NetBSD and will rather use MorphOS on this Powerbook" gets you nowhere, while "My mini just died, tell me what evidence I need to fabricate, so I can transfer my license to this Powerbook" could easily work.
Provide your information about getting the internal Airport Extreme card working to the MorphOS Development Team, i am sure they will be interested in it, but it may take more than you think to access the internal Airport Extreme card from MorphOS3.0, I mean having a driver is not the only obstacle to getting wireless networking enabled using the internal Airport Extreme card, unless I am understanding the current situation incorrectly. It would be great if a solution could be found to enable use of the Airport Extreme in the G4 PowerBook from MorphOS3.0, so please share what ever you know and have used from Debian to get it working with the MorphOS Dev. Team and I will hope for the best.
I'm quite certain that MorphOS team members like Piru and others are fully aware of how to get wpa_supplicant working with different kinds of WPA/WPA variants (CCMP/TKIP, PSK/802.1X, EAP ...) on Linux.
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It would be great if a solution could be found to enable use of the Airport Extreme in the G4 PowerBook from MorphOS3.0, so please share what ever you know and have used from Debian to get it working with the MorphOS Dev. Team and I will hope for the best.
Broadcom gave out the information about certain chipsets used in other products:
http://www.broadcom.com/support/ethernet_nic/open_source.php
unfortunately bcm4712kfb/bcm43xx doesn't seem to be there.
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If you can write SANA-II driver I dont see any reason why it could not be used.
A. I have zero experience writing drivers. [strike]B. this is not an open-source project, I'd be blindly contributing to a codebase I can't see.[/strike] okay, forgot SANA-II was an existing standard. Still, I was asking as a vacillating potential customer; I'd be more interested in something that worked out of the box.
Provide your information about getting the internal Airport Extreme card working to the MorphOS Development Team, i am sure they will be interested in it,
Uh, I didn't mean to imply that it was arcane magic that only I possess. I installed the b43 package from the repository (actually I'm not sure if this is Debian-general or MintPPC-specific) and it just worked. Looked like it had a utility to pull a proprietary firmware blob from somewhere, but I didn't look into it further than that.
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@ Iggy
There was mention somewhere quite a while back that wireless support was one thing holding up the release. 3D, too. So they're both a definite "maybe" :)
Dunno bout the 3D (but AFAIR it will either be in 3.0 or 3.1) wireless will only be supported via PCMCIA-cards (with the driver ported from AROS). Not sure what will be the deal on these. Will we each have to buy our own licences, or did the MorphOS-team make a bulk-deal with Mr Cafferkey ?
Anyways my card is finally on the way after the seller f####ed up my pick up address.
At this point, it doesn't appear that we will be getting R300 3D drivers.
However, the news about PCMCIA cards is welcomed.
What about other Macs (other then the Powerbook) though?
ASFAIK the wireless slot of a G4 is not fully PCMCIA compatible.
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Yes, the built-in wireless card works under Linux. No, it won't directly give us wireless under MorphOS.
I assume then that's it's a way easier to port Aros drivers than Linux one's to Morphos. Is the info provided in the Linux source code of any help? I thought that talking to the card itself was OS independent. Kamel
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I'll make sure to forward your message on to the MorphOS Developer Team kolla, so they will be ready to provide the appropriate response to your "your all kinds of tricks".
This post isn't a slam towards the MOS dudes at all - in fact, they have been entirely cordial and open to my questions when I contacted them directly, and I appreciate that and it goes a long way to me becoming a registered MOS user. Now...
It was a valid question that has not been answered, Dave. The "everyone is a criminal!!111" angle with the A.org clownshow here is getting mighty, mighty old. I do find it hysterical that this has turned into a piracy argument when there's absolutely no mention of screwing MOS Team over, virtually no chance of it. I like MOS, as do others. If it was going to be cracked, it would have been by now, and that would be a real shame. No one brought up the piracy angle other than you guys, lol. Despite the HW locked issue, people still seem to have this accusatory tone. It sucks, and it's harming the good offerings of the product they have. I'm not stirring the pot to get them to change their reg methods - it's their ball game to run, and I respect that, but the weird accusations, enough. Your piracy police words took the cake, Dave.
Forward what you want, lol. Thankfully the MOS team are pretty receptive when asked in private about the ins and outs when you ask them. I'm sure you've already forwarded all the messages from people that have pointed out that hardware could be maliciously destroyed and passed off as "broken" to the MOS devs in order to milk them out of a re-reg, and conveniently ignored the fact the license is hardware locked to a specific machine to begin with and can't be used twice without cracking reg schemes to begin with. MOS gets regged cause it's a good piece of kit, it stands on its' own merits - but when people ask simple questions on go the tinfoil police hats. Really, dude? Policing a forums and "forwarding messages about peoples tricks"? That isn't concern for the future of a community nor a product, that's being a weirdo. You're being a weirdo with such statements, Amigadave - and it makes people uncomfortable. Certainly you can see that, no? Colonel Number One User does good! Forwards all posts from people he thinks are shady!
"What have YOU done for the Amiga?" in the sig? "Well, I spent some of the day collecting the names and posts of people I suspect are no goodnik future PIE-RATS of a hobby OS that no one has cracked yet, likely due to respect for all the hard work the team puts in, THEN!!!! I sent them in as fact rather than openly debate some politely worded queries from the community! I'll try and get their IP's and mailing addresses soon for you!!111"
Report away, I pay for what I use, including the handful of copies I've paid for over the years for WB, Amiga Forever and OS4, and I'll pay for MOS if/when I decide it is for me.
This place gets more offputting by the day. I can deal with the love of ones particular camp, even though I am entirely neutral on the issue and see all variants as a boon to the Amiga hobby, but man... I can't get past the creepy police state nonsense that could border on a privacy concern from a guy when it was only an open, public debate. You might as well have told us you're going through our RL mail and garbage cans, "sniffing for clues", Dave. Best one yet... Again, no harm no foul towards the MOS dudes, but man...
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Have/will this bugs be fixed for 3.0?
1.MorphOS DDC bug
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58828
2.Ambient panel bug
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58869
I am still keeping my PowerMac G4 with OSX in the hope that that some day those MOS bugs get fixed so that I can give MOS a proper try.
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Have/will this bugs be fixed for 3.0?
1.MorphOS DDC bug
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58828
A friend of mine had a similar problem. Until that is fixed you could try to use a vga cable without DDC signals.
2.Ambient panel bug
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58869
Wow! that looks really strange. Could it be related to your gfx card running out of ram? There's a sBar module to show free gfx ram in the screen tittle bar.
Have you tried other gfx card? Does memtest work 100% ok?
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My gfx card and monitors work beautifully under OSX and Linux. The problem is only MOS related.
And regarding the proposed vga cable fix, it is not a good solution either, just read the thread.
I erased MOS from my HDD and installed OSX untill display problems get fixed. It is really annoying to resort to use an old CRT monitor in this age, just to get MOS display its Ambient screen.
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Dunno if this has been asked here before or not, but one thing I've always wondered is if there is going to be any more development put towards backwards compatibility?
Granted, the compatibility is already superb and much better than I honestly expected in many cases, but there are those few apps that still act a little strange.
I noticed that certain paint programs work perfectly, but strangely enough when you drag a window around their environment, you'll notices that the grey background, turns a different shade of grey where ever the box has been dragged.
A MINOR complaint, but something of note none the less.
Then there is OctaMED Sound Studio. OS 4 users are able to enjoy this lovely piece of software, but MorphOS users are met with a frozen screen when they launch the program.
There's a few more that should work, but lock up the system and or flake out, but at the moment I can't think of them, my system's been down for a minute.
Game wise I recall WipeOut running really well, but I think that's the only Warp title that I ever got to run if memory serves correctly.
I was hyped at the prospect of being able to play Shogo on my Morph machine, but alas, I'm one of those lucky few who are not able to get in game sound, though sound works perfectly within the menus. When ever I have asked for help in regards to this, people tell me over and over again that it's just quirky like that. Sound works for some, not for others.
P.S. Why is ImageFX so much of a pain to get installed without it locking up the system?
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My gfx card and monitors work beautifully under OSX and Linux. The problem is only MOS related.
And regarding the proposed vga cable fix, it is not a good solution either, just read the thread.
I erased MOS from my HDD and installed OSX untill display problems get fixed. It is really annoying to resort to use an old CRT monitor in this age, just to get MOS display its Ambient screen.
I would not call this a MorphOS bug that needs to be fixed, just because it does not recognize your monitor DDC and MacOSX and Linux on the same computer hardware do. They have slightly higher numbers of coders working on those two other platforms. Isn't it more like a definition that needs to be added to be recognized by MorphOS, than a bug? Granted this is over my head, so I am just guessing, but since MorphOS recognizes all of my monitors without any trouble, and I have several, I know that the monitor recognition part of MorphOS does work most of the time.
If I did not understand your problem from what I read in the thread you provided links to, then forgive me. I have not experienced any of the problems you are describing on any monitor I have tried on my several MorphOS computers, crt monitors and lcd monitors.
I hope you can get the help you need from one of the MorphOS Developers to solve your screen settings problem that will allow you to use any monitor you wish to use. Sorry I don't have the experience to help you.
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My gfx card and monitors work beautifully under OSX and Linux. The problem is only MOS related.
I*know. That's exactly what happened to a friend with his peg2.
And regarding the proposed vga cable fix, it is not a good solution either, just read the thread.
I tested it on my friends Peg2 and it solved the problem. But if you don't like the idea you can do other things:
a) rename sys:morphos/libs/ddc.library to anything else. That will disable DDC completely, it's the most "rude" solution.
b) connect your crt, save some basic 31Khz modes you know that will work in the TFT monitor and once it's more or less configured copy env:cybergraphx/RadeonMonitor to envarc:cybergraphx it should leave there the settings. It's the best choice because OS updates will respect your settings, otherwise you will have to rename ddc.library each time you update the OS.
Then, boot with the TFT monitor and configure properly the screenmodes.
I erased MOS from my HDD and installed OSX untill display problems get fixed. It is really annoying to resort to use an old CRT monitor in this age, just to get MOS display its Ambient screen.
You don't have to use a CRT monitor. DDC works most of times, you are the 2nd person I know with problems. There are workarounds. I didn't read any post from you at MorphZone or morphos mailing list so your questions passed unnoticed, you deleted it too fast IMHO.
I hope you can configure MorphOS properly, I deleted OSX from my Mac Mini and I'm very happy with MorphOS