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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: MaximvsPayne on March 18, 2011, 10:23:07 PM

Title: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: MaximvsPayne on March 18, 2011, 10:23:07 PM
London, 18th March 2011

With the production of AmigaOne X1000  Beta test boards in progress, A-EON technology is pleased to release  schematics of the final revision 2 Nemo motherboard layout.  In true  "Amiga tradition" the lead designers have added their signatures to the  Nemo motherboard. We are also pleased to reveal details of the upgraded  XENA subsystem featuring a 500MHz, dual-core XS1-L2 XMOS chip. Please  check out the latest images of the revision 2 Nemo and XENA schematics  in the Media gallery on the A-EON Technology website.


http://www.a-eon.com/index.html (http://www.a-eon.com/index.html)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 18, 2011, 11:48:03 PM
(http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_drink.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_super.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_worship.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_dance.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_worship.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_dance.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_super.gif)  (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_thanks.gif)

OMG..this  made my weekend!!!..I'm transported back in time to 1983 when I was  waiting to save enough money to buy my commodore 64....I CAN'T WAIT


(ahh good beat the trolls this time):roflmao:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: SysAdmin on March 18, 2011, 11:51:05 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: gertsy on March 18, 2011, 11:51:35 PM
Wow, must be good its got signatures on it.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: magnetic on March 18, 2011, 11:54:05 PM
Congrats to Aeon finally some good news for next gen os4!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 18, 2011, 11:54:28 PM
haha ..just noticed "Keep This Party Going"...INDEED:afro::pint::knuddel:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Franko on March 19, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
Me money's just being freshly printed right now... can't wait... :D
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 19, 2011, 12:25:44 AM
Quote from: Franko;622979
Me money's just being freshly printed right now... can't wait... :D

:roflmao:hey Franko c'mon be a good sport & print some off for us too:roflmao:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: TheGoose on March 19, 2011, 01:20:28 AM
Quote from: Franko;622979
Me money's just being freshly printed right now... can't wait... :D


Can I borrow ummm, about 5-6K ? Or can you send me the PDF?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: actung_bab on March 19, 2011, 01:36:31 AM
Awsome News oh yeah light up a smoke and l gave up years ago
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: actung_bab on March 19, 2011, 01:37:24 AM
Quote from: TheGoose;622985
Can I borrow ummm, about 5-6K ? Or can you send me the PDF?
l see you my left kidney and chuck in the misses for free hehe
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: trekiej on March 19, 2011, 02:53:20 AM
Congratulations Aeon.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Franko on March 19, 2011, 04:13:05 AM
@ klk300r & TheGoose

It cost's me about £58 to print each £50 note, so I'll sell you guys some at £65 each including postage... :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: amigadave on March 19, 2011, 05:06:20 AM
Even though I am not currently an AmigaOS4.x user, I wish I had the money to buy one of these boards when they first come out.  (Why?, well I am not sure there will be a second production run of them and what Trevor and friends have done is historic in the land of Amiga.  It is nice to own a piece of history, specially when there are so few pieces that are the same as yours.)

Congratulations on the progress Trevor!  Looking forward to the day when you finally release this project and I hope that it turns out as well as it can for you, a true Amiga Fan that you are.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Crom00 on March 19, 2011, 12:06:51 PM
Wasn't this suppose to be out last summer? I don't remember not trying to be sarcastic.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: persia on March 19, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
I suspect there'll be quite a few English £1 coins with Franko's mad hatter pose on them....

Quote from: Franko;623008
@ klk300r & TheGoose

It cost's me about £58 to print each £50 note, so I'll sell you guys some at £65 each including postage... :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: AmigaNG on March 19, 2011, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: Crom00;623064
Wasn't this suppose to be out last summer? I don't remember not trying to be sarcastic.

Yep, but its better late than never! :)

Good news, i really hope X1000 can restart momentum in the AmigaOS4 market even just a little.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Bennymee on March 19, 2011, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: Crom00;623064
Wasn't this suppose to be out last summer? I don't remember not trying to be sarcastic.

When I read a dozen of your messages here on this forum..I don't think that you don't remember that it supposed to be out last summer.....so you are sarcastic ;)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Digiman on March 19, 2011, 03:18:52 PM
Good news indeed :) I know there are some people waiting for it.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: DCAmiga on March 19, 2011, 03:37:16 PM
Quote from: persia;623066
I suspect there'll be quite a few English £1 coins with Franko's mad hatter pose on them....
And a Squirrel Head on the other side ;)
 
Its also good news Trev has set up a bounty page like Aros  (amigabounty.net) for OS4 and trying to get Linux developers to try out the X1000's hardware aswell :D
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: amoskodare on March 19, 2011, 05:17:20 PM
:D :drink:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Templario on March 19, 2011, 05:32:59 PM
It is a good news, more when two weeks ago, all was very black... for someones. Now the future for Amiga is here.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: TheGoose on March 19, 2011, 09:09:30 PM
Sooo naturally we would like to see some pics, would make your news post a bunch more exciting. Pics of boards / production / airplanes / half naked girls with boards, some kangaroos with mother boards in their pouches, you know the normal stuff. All the other projects are doing it!

And OMG, they took my comment about it being a monolith and ran with it. Wall papers on their site:

http://www.a-eon.com/aeonwallpaper/ad_wallpaper-ws_1280x720.jpg

"Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before and it has always been due to human error."

Let's hope X1000 is nicer than HAL, and doesn't toss us out the nearest air lock; after all the disparaging remarks some of us have made, myself included. We're really just a cynical bunch, but understandably so.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Franko on March 19, 2011, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;623162
Let's hope X1000 is nicer than HAL, and doesn't toss us out the nearest air lock.


Dunno, might be kind of fun floating about in an eerie red light trying to change your extra ram card over... :D
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: magnetic on March 20, 2011, 12:47:41 AM
Franko: do you just post useless posts just to post? You are starting to get annoying you have to post mostly foolishness on every thread here?

@ thread

Congrats Aeon! Its a big step. However its only the first 5 proto boards, the so called "beta tester" boards are being produced yet afaik.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: gertsy on March 20, 2011, 12:59:22 AM
Nowhere near as annoying as complaints about Franko's posts. But I'm happy to deal with those too. As well as people complaining about people complaining about Franko's posts.

FORUM = A space for public expression.  Viva la difference.

I bet you, when the X1000 is released Franko will seriously think about buying one.  He's got enough of those coins stashed up in the loft. Or he could comfortably sell off a few of his excess A1200s on ebay to buy one.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Franko on March 20, 2011, 01:07:27 AM
Quote from: magnetic;623211
Franko: do you just post useless posts just to post? You are starting to get annoying you have to post mostly foolishness on every thread here?


Yup... :D ,Why... :D , Does it really bother you ... :D , Sorry... NOT... :D
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tripitaka on March 20, 2011, 01:43:57 AM
Congrats to all involved, glad to see some action. :)

Quote from: magnetic;623211
Franko: do you just post useless posts just to post? You are starting to get annoying you have to post mostly foolishness on every thread here?


Frankos posts are entertaining to some of us, you can just skip them if you like. He is mostly harmless and unoffensive after all.

@Templario

Is your avatar a cryptic Amiga link to Beneath an Iron Sky or are you just looking forward to the film (Iron Sky, that is)?

Nazi flying saucers...... cool.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Crom00 on March 20, 2011, 01:54:53 AM
Quote from: Bennymee;623081
When I read a dozen of your messages here on this forum..I don't think that you don't remember that it supposed to be out last summer.....so you are sarcastic ;)


I'll take that as it was supposed to be out last summer....lol..

Well if they can sell this and it generates interest in OS4 great. The fact that anything Amiga related comes out all is testament to the tenacity of this scene.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Jose on March 20, 2011, 03:30:07 PM
So what's stopping some chinese pirates to clone it then ? I guess they wouldn't be interested since it's a small market...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tension on March 20, 2011, 04:04:13 PM
In production...

as in...

Not in production??
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: A1260 on March 20, 2011, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623072
Yep, but its better late than never! :)

Good news, i really hope X1000 can restart momentum in the AmigaOS4 market even just a little.


5 (alpha/beta??) boards and no more.... thats what trevor said. so what momentum are you talking about here?... if these 5 boards do good they will make the boards for the beta testers, then finally there will be boards for us normal customers. how long this will take no one is sure of, but i guess it will happen in 2012 or 2013 at least.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: dammy on March 20, 2011, 04:32:07 PM
Quote from: A1260;623280
5 (alpha/beta??) boards and no more.... thats what trevor said. so what momentum are you talking about here?... if these 5 boards do good they will make the boards for the beta testers, then finally there will be boards for us normal customers. how long this will take no one is sure of, but i guess it will happen in 2012 or 2013 at least.


Which would be more of a reason for OS4 users to buy a SAM460 now vs waiting a year plus for the A1X1K.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: divined on March 20, 2011, 04:41:31 PM
They are taking their time, splendid news nonetheless. I`d pretty much use an Amiga OS 4.1 PowerPC based machine as an alternative to Windows that just a mere Linux box. Linux, really has no spark in it. At least for me.

If only for the cost, that is!!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: AmigaNG on March 20, 2011, 05:21:50 PM
Quote from: A1260;623280
5 (alpha/beta??) boards and no more.... thats what trevor said. so what momentum are you talking about here?... if these 5 boards do good they will make the boards for the beta testers, then finally there will be boards for us normal customers. how long this will take no one is sure of, but i guess it will happen in 2012 or 2013 at least.

I guess for you, you hope it would be, Better Never than Late :rolleyes:, I do think once the x1000 is finally out, (and I personally would be very surprised if its not out before the end of year) I do think the x1000 is going to bring new users to the OS4 market, give the market a much needed boost, i hope.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: A1260 on March 21, 2011, 02:58:28 AM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623295
I guess for you, you hope it would be, Better Never than Late :rolleyes:, I do think once the x1000 is finally out, (and I personally would be very surprised if its not out before the end of year) I do think the x1000 is going to bring new users to the OS4 market, give the market a much needed boost, i hope.


in amigaland the word 'never' dont exist, it is only late... 5,10 or 20 years to wait, it will be here in the end. hobby or not people look at prices... and we know what the x1000 will cost. the x1000 will not bring new users. only the hardcore old amiga fan that have been here for years and can afford it, will buy the x1000.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: actung_bab on March 21, 2011, 05:52:13 AM
Quote from: divined;623284
They are taking their time, splendid news nonetheless. I`d pretty much use an Amiga OS 4.1 PowerPC based machine as an alternative to Windows that just a mere Linux box. Linux, really has no spark in it. At least for me.

If only for the cost, that is!!
yes agree with you l feel the same Dont like osx either leaves me cold it works well
But when comes to cinfirguring am lost let alone work how things get installed where or why havent got a clue . need to get sam 460 some time
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: actung_bab on March 21, 2011, 05:55:35 AM
Quote from: Jose;623273
So what's stopping some chinese pirates to clone it then ? I guess they wouldn't be interested since it's a small market...
I read on auction site a "sony Psp for sale was red and made in china does make it a
fake or a clone glad didnt bid on it
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: magnetic on March 21, 2011, 06:13:49 AM
Well i know one thing its almost too little too late. There was a lot of hype and momentum last year.. now its dying.. So if you want the x1000 better buy it on the first batch!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jj on March 21, 2011, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: magnetic;623211
Franko: do you just post useless posts just to post? You are starting to get annoying you have to post mostly foolishness on every thread here?
 
@ thread
 
Congrats Aeon! Its a big step. However its only the first 5 proto boards, the so called "beta tester" boards are being produced yet afaik.

 
Just put him on your ignore list, you only see some posts when someone quotes him then.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: A1260 on March 21, 2011, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: magnetic;623412
Well i know one thing its almost too little too late. There was a lot of hype and momentum last year.. now its dying.. So if you want the x1000 better buy it on the first batch!


advertising a product not finished and let years pass, kill the momentum.... why not wait and advertise it one month before sales?... its not like its 1996 anymore, now days thing happen very fast and people expect you to keep up as a company or else your seen as a joke. the reality is hard.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: tone007 on March 21, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
...as the specs look sadder and sadder by the day and no doubt the price remains the same...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 21, 2011, 01:51:53 PM
Quote from: magnetic;623412
Well i know one thing its almost too little too late. There was a lot of hype and momentum last year.. now its dying.. So if you want the x1000 better buy it on the first batch!

dying:roflmao:my Lord the optimism on this site seems to be getting better on every single progress update:rolleyes:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: ferrellsl on March 21, 2011, 02:16:12 PM
It's always the same clowns on this board who get excited over nothing and post topics that have misleading titles.  The only thing different is that now there's a schematic of X1000 vaporware system posted online......yawn.....Saying that the Rev 2 motherboard is in production because a schematic has been posted is really stretching things at best and misleading at worst.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 21, 2011, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623295
I guess for you, you hope it would be, Better Never than Late :rolleyes:, I do think once the x1000 is finally out, (and I personally would be very surprised if its not out before the end of year) I do think the x1000 is going to bring new users to the OS4 market, give the market a much needed boost, i hope.

Can you explain why you think that? What does the X1000 bring that the Eyetech A1 series, SAM series, Pegasos, and the antique PPC add-on cards for Amigas does not?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 21, 2011, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: actung_bab;623410
yes agree with you l feel the same Dont like osx either leaves me cold it works well
But when comes to cinfirguring am lost let alone work how things get installed where or why havent got a clue . need to get sam 460 some time


Well, going OT but since you went there...

Errr, dragging an application into the Application folder...and you don't know how things get installed or where? I have to say, I'm impressed!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: vidarh on March 21, 2011, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;623459
Saying that the Rev 2 motherboard is in production because a schematic has been posted is really stretching things at best and misleading at worst.


However saying it's in production because the founder of the company making them says it's in production is not stretching things. Unless you're ready to accuse Trevor about outright lying about that.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 21, 2011, 02:53:05 PM
Quote from: vidarh;623468
However saying it's in production because the founder of the company making them says it's in production is not stretching things. Unless you're ready to accuse Trevor about outright lying about that.


Trevor already admitted this was a run for the 5 sample boards. Yet he still seems to refer to it as a "production run".

Now, unlike the automobile industry I know of no official measurement to qualify a computer board as a "production run" so lying would also be subjective. However the fact is the news item doesn't state that there are only five boards, and we don't even need to get into the whole history of false announcements A-eon has made in the past. So it's buyer beware.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: the_leander on March 21, 2011, 04:21:15 PM
Quote from: jorkany;623471
Trevor already admitted this was a run for the 5 sample boards. Yet he still seems to refer to it as a "production run".

Now, unlike the automobile industry I know of no official measurement to qualify a computer board as a "production run" so lying would also be subjective. However the fact is the news item doesn't state that there are only five boards, and we don't even need to get into the whole history of false announcements A-eon has made in the past. So it's buyer beware.


In the computer industry this would likely qualify as "sampling" rather than production, which implies that the board has reached the end point in it's development.

So yes, I'd go with misleading, at least as far as the headline goes.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: TrevorDick on March 21, 2011, 06:02:25 PM
Quote from: jorkany;623471
Trevor already admitted this was a run for the 5 sample boards. Yet he still seems to refer to it as a "production run

Actually Trevor said:-

"With the production of the AmigaOne X1000 Beta test boards in progress,   A-EON Technology is pleased to release details of the final revision 2   Nemo motherboard layout."

TrevorD
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kesa on March 21, 2011, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: TrevorDick;623503
Actually Trevor said:-

"With the production of the AmigaOne X1000 Beta test boards in progress,   A-EON Technology is pleased to release details of the final revision 2   Nemo motherboard layout."

TrevorD

I hate it when people talk about themselves in the third degree ;)

P.S. how can you live in both Wellington and London at the same time? :confused:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Nickman on March 21, 2011, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: TrevorDick;623503
Actually Trevor said:-

"With the production of the AmigaOne X1000 Beta test boards in progress,   A-EON Technology is pleased to release details of the final revision 2   Nemo motherboard layout."

TrevorD


http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5858&start=20#78793

Quote from: umisef
So are the boards in production the "5 off for approval"


Quote from: TrevorDick
Yes.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: mechy on March 21, 2011, 08:43:57 PM
Its beyond me how anyone can get excited over any of this? I mean we have a grossly overpriced board,with mediocre specs. Its has a somewhat useless xorro(lol) bus thats is PCI-E..so why not call it PCI-E FFS! pci-e is all good and great if there is drivers for anything.

I suspect its the same clowns that get excited over commodore-usa offerings.

Jack had it right - computers for the masses,not the classes!

Mech


Quote from: MaximvsPayne;622940
London, 18th March 2011

With the production of AmigaOne X1000  Beta test boards in progress, A-EON technology is pleased to release  schematics of the final revision 2 Nemo motherboard layout.  In true  "Amiga tradition" the lead designers have added their signatures to the  Nemo motherboard. We are also pleased to reveal details of the upgraded  XENA subsystem featuring a 500MHz, dual-core XS1-L2 XMOS chip. Please  check out the latest images of the revision 2 Nemo and XENA schematics  in the Media gallery on the A-EON Technology website.


http://www.a-eon.com/index.html (http://www.a-eon.com/index.html)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 21, 2011, 08:53:10 PM
Quote from: mechy;623546
Its beyond me how anyone can get excited over any of this? I mean we have a grossly overpriced board,with mediocre specs. Its has a somewhat useless xorro(lol) bus thats is PCI-E..so why not call it PCI-E FFS! pci-e is all good and great if there is drivers for anything.

Physically it is a PCI-E connector, but it is not connected to a PCI-E bus.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 21, 2011, 08:58:23 PM
Quote from: mechy;623546
Its beyond me how anyone can get excited over any of this? I mean we have a grossly overpriced board,with mediocre specs. Its has a somewhat useless xorro(lol) bus thats is PCI-E..so why not call it PCI-E FFS! pci-e is all good and great if there is drivers for anything.

I suspect its the same clowns that get excited over commodore-usa offerings.

wow..thanks for your very insightful post:rolleyes:

FWIW, this 'clown' wants nothing to do with off the shelf PC's with Amiga stickers on them
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Daedalus on March 21, 2011, 09:03:49 PM
Quote from: mechy;623546

Jack had it right - computers for the masses,not the classes!


Nowadays that crown is held by Dell - churning out millions of cheap computers on pretty thin margins. Which is fine if you want a cheap PC. But that's not the market the X1000 is aimed at - that ship sailed for the Amiga over 15 years ago. Nowadays it's a tiny market, and producing a custom machine for that market is a very expensive undertaking. But I'm sure you knew that already.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 21, 2011, 09:16:15 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;623554
Nowadays that crown is held by Dell - churning out millions of cheap computers on pretty thin margins. Which is fine if you want a cheap PC. But that's not the market the X1000 is aimed at - that ship sailed for the Amiga over 15 years ago. Nowadays it's a tiny market, and producing a custom machine for that market is a very expensive undertaking. But I'm sure you knew that already.

why bother, we're only engineers & 'clowns' to the all knowing mr. mechy..heck we all know he's capable of engineering/designing a new X1000 computer to run our favourite OS from scratch and sell it to us all for $500 including shipping:roflmao:

@ Trevor

thanks for all your hard work and dedication to Amiga :pint:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: ddniUK on March 21, 2011, 09:16:34 PM
AmigaOne X1000; What I have seen so far...

Is not:

1. On time
2. Attempting to take over the world
3. Attempting to be mainstream like classic Amigas were.
4. Attempting to be cheap
5. Attempting to please everyone
6. A public consultation exercise
7. A get rich quick scheme for it's creators

It is:

1. A personal passion for Trevor
2. A huge leap forward for AmigaOS systems
3. A bespoke system
4. A very costly endeavour
5. A cheap hobby compared to photography / Golf / SCUBA etc
6. A Rolex not a Timex
7. An easy target for all those who have invested $0.00 & 0hrs 0mins to spout venom and FUD.

I wait patiently, read a lot, listen and save. If it is all that I hope it to be then I will buy. If not then my Wife and I get a trip away :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: mechy on March 21, 2011, 09:28:04 PM
Do you understand what the x1000 is? its no more amiga than any pc with amiga stickers or a SAM board for that matter. Its made from off the shelf parts for the most part. it may be they "tied" all of the parts together, but its basically a PPC board with a pci-e expansion bus that is for... hmmm what use was this again? lol its not very fast by todays standards and certainly won't be by the time its released.too bad they didnt team up with natami and dump some resources there.
I give them credit for trying to do something different,but the cost($2000usd~) and the fact it has almost nothing to do with amiga other than supposedly running os4x makes me wonder why.
there's nothing new,special or incredible like the original A1000.I have to wonder if people read the specs on their site.

and your welcome for the insight mr clown :) you really should have those eyes looked at. heh


mech


Quote from: klx300r;623553
wow..thanks for your very insightful post:rolleyes:

FWIW, this 'clown' wants nothing to do with off the shelf PC's with Amiga stickers on them
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tempest on March 21, 2011, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: ddniUK;623560
AmigaOne X1000; What I have seen so far...

Is not:

1. On time
2. Attempting to take over the world
3. Attempting to be mainstream like classic Amigas were.
4. Attempting to be cheap
5. Attempting to please everyone
6. A public consultation exercise
7. A get rich quick scheme for it's creators

It is:

1. A personal passion for Trevor
2. A huge leap forward for AmigaOS systems
3. A bespoke system
4. A very costly endeavour
5. A cheap hobby compared to photography / Golf / SCUBA etc
6. A Rolex not a Timex
7. An easy target for all those haters who have invested $0.00 & 0hrs 0mins to spout venom and FUD.

I wait patiently, read a lot, listen and save. If it is all that I hope it to be then I will buy. If not then my Wife and I get a trip away :)


I'm getting pretty tired by people who call other people haters just because they have no interest in a computer that's uber expensive and not a real Amiga anyways (no matter how many boingballs it comes with).

It's just a generic PPC computer with boingball stickers and an Amiga-like OS, it has nothing to offer that other computers can't do (unlike the real Amiga when it came out). There are much cheaper and better Amiga-like options available.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: ddniUK on March 21, 2011, 09:32:03 PM
@Tempest, thank you for reinforcing my post so perfectly.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tempest on March 21, 2011, 09:38:33 PM
Quote from: ddniUK;623568
@Tempest, thank you for reinforcing my post so perfectly.


Whatever :rolleyes:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: A1260 on March 21, 2011, 09:59:34 PM
so who is the lucky 5 that gets these x1000 boards?....
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: lsmart on March 21, 2011, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: Tempest;623565
I'm getting pretty tired by people who call other people haters just because they have no interest ...


You also may get tired of people who claim they have no interest, but continue to write uninformed or misleading statements into threads on topics, which they claimed to have no interest in.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 21, 2011, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: ddniUK;623560
AmigaOne X1000; What I have seen so far...

Is not:

1. On time
2. Attempting to take over the world
3. Attempting to be mainstream like classic Amigas were.


Just throwing out some of A-eon's stated goals here so there will be no mistaking what they are.

Source: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=50038

"It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets"

"The launch of the A1000 offered something new, and the X1000 will do the same."

"the X1000 will once more make the AmigaOS platform the best choice for truly creative and unique applications"

"it is this return of AmigaOS to the high-end that truly ushers in a new beginning."

Source:http://a-eon.com/news.html
"the X1000 will launch a new era of modern Amiga computing."
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tempest on March 21, 2011, 10:24:39 PM
Quote from: lsmart;623584
You also may get tired of people who claim they have no interest, but continue to write uninformed or misleading statements into threads on topics, which they claimed to have no interest in.


This is a forum and everybody is entitled to express their opinion whether you like it or not. Calling other people haters just because they have another opinion than you is not very polite.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 22, 2011, 01:44:25 AM
Quote from: Tempest;623565
I'm getting pretty tired by people who call other people haters just because they have no interest in a computer that's uber expensive and not a real Amiga anyways (no matter how many boingballs it comes with).

calling people names is uncalled for no matter what your 'opinion' is
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 22, 2011, 01:45:07 AM
Quote from: lsmart;623584
You also may get tired of people who claim they have no interest, but continue to write uninformed or misleading statements into threads on topics, which they claimed to have no interest in.

+ 1
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 06:54:37 AM
Quote from: ferrellsl;623459


...
Saying that the Rev 2 motherboard is in production because a schematic has been posted is really stretching things at best and misleading at worst.



Could it be that you misunderstood that?
I understood it that way that those were two independent news items:

A1 X1k Rev2 mobo in production
AND
A1 X1k Schematics being posted.

No link between those 2 items - and certainly the mobo isn't in production because someone posted the schematics...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 07:00:53 AM
Quote from: Kesa;623543


...
P.S. how can you live in both Wellington and London at the same time? :confused:



Ever heard of "commuters"?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 07:11:04 AM
Quote from: mechy;623546


Its beyond me how anyone can get excited over any of this? I mean we have a grossly overpriced board,with mediocre specs.



[sarcasm]
Huh - you can not imagine what a relief it is to get the chance to get rid of some thousand € of our redundant millions? Unbelieveable, poor man!
[/sarcasm]

Quote from: mechy;623546


Its has a somewhat useless xorro(lol) bus...



I'd say that remains to be seen, if the xorro bus is useful or not.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 07:13:54 AM
Quote from: Daedalus;623554


Nowadays that crown is held by Dell - churning out millions of cheap computers on pretty thin margins. Which is fine if you want a cheap PC.
...



If you think Dells are cheap you should go and get an ALDI PC for a fraction of it...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 07:31:06 AM
Quote from: mechy;623564


Do you understand what the x1000 is?



No - not yet.
But I will get one to find precisely that out. So the A1 X1k currently is interesting enough to me to get one and to find out more about it.

And you?

Quote from: mechy;623564


its no more amiga than any pc with amiga stickers or a SAM board for that matter.



It will be MY NEW AMIGA.
That's all that counts for me...
You are of course free to think of it what you want...

Quote from: mechy;623564


Its made from off the shelf parts for the most part.



This is also valid for the original A1000s from 1985and all subsequent C= Amiga models. Or do you honestly think all the resistors, capacitors, jacks and even the cpu have been designed and produced exclusively for the Amiga line of computers by C=?

Quote from: mechy;623564


it may be they "tied" all of the parts together, but its basically a PPC board with a pci-e expansion bus



So what?

Quote from: mechy;623564


that is for... hmmm what use was this again? ... I have to wonder if people read the specs on their site.
...



And I have to wonder if YOU read the specs on their site...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: lsmart on March 22, 2011, 07:32:39 AM
Quote from: Tempest;623586
Calling other people haters just because they have another opinion than you is not very polite.


"That lamer called me a fanboy!" And that's when the flamewar started.

Pretending to be offended is a kind of trolling too.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 07:36:10 AM
Quote from: Tempest;623565


I'm getting pretty tired by people who call other people haters just because they have no interest in a computer that's uber expensive and not a real Amiga anyways (no matter how many boingballs it comes with). It's just a generic PPC computer with boingball stickers and an Amiga-like OS, it has nothing to offer that other computers can't do (unlike the real Amiga when it came out).



I'm truly sorry for you! Does that hurt very much?

Quote from: Tempest;623565


There are much cheaper and better Amiga-like options available.



Then stop whining, get one of those instead and be happy.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kesa on March 22, 2011, 08:05:44 AM
@Dandy. What's up with your car? Can i have it? :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 22, 2011, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: Kesa;623687

@Dandy.

What's up with your car? Can i have it? :)



If you're referring to my avatar with this question I have to disappoint you:
This is NOT my car (although really I wish it was).
It's my employers (Ford) car.
I just was one of the very few who got a chance to drive it on our testing track back in September 2005.
The avatar shows me just after leaving the GT - with a really BIG grin on my face...

Believe me:
Just flying is better...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: AmigaNG on March 22, 2011, 10:58:32 AM
Quote from: jorkany;623463
Can you explain why you think that?
Because I believe :) But also because of some of details I've read in Amiga Future, because there does general feel that there is a lot more interest in this system than say the Sam systems, because I have talked too and seen a lot of users who have not say yet got an OS4 system (like myself) really consider getting this one, and because hardware wise it gives OS4 a much better future than being stuck on old Amigas or old Macs.

"It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets"

I see no problem their.


"The launch of the A1000 offered something new, and the X1000 will do the same."

How many other computers features a Xmos chip, Xorro Expansion Slot, and a Dual Core PA6T-1682M PPC 64Bit 2Ghz processor?

"the X1000 will once more make the AmigaOS platform the best choice for truly creative and unique applications. it is this return of AmigaOS to the high-end that truly ushers in a new beginning."

Hopeful we will see something unique with the Xmos chip and the power of the X1000 should be enough for any type of demanding app like Blender or Hollywood so basically hardware wont be the problem, it will be all software getting better GFX drives, making the OS Dual Core and writing the apps to take full advantage of the hardware is going to be the difficult part.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: persia on March 22, 2011, 11:18:14 AM
@AmigaNG

You are right, there are a small core group that say "price/performance ratios be d###ed, we're getting this."  There's anther group that says, "show us something useful with XMOS and we'll buy."  This group is small but far larger than the first group and probably enough to keep the hobby going, assuming the condition can be met.

Is there a pin compatible cpu to replace the PA6T once Apple stops making them ( about a year from now)?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kronos on March 22, 2011, 12:09:47 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623709

How many other computers features a Xmos chip, Xorro Expansion Slot, and a Dual Core PA6T-1682M PPC 64Bit 2Ghz processor?



So if the A1000 (the real one) had been bog-standard IBM-AT-clone with an 68000 in the place where one would expect the 80286 and some obscure IO-chip clued to it, it would have triggered the same reactions like the A1000 with it's outstanding GFX, sound an OS had ?

It say the actual reaction would be lukewarm at best.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Tripitaka on March 22, 2011, 12:19:16 PM
Quote from: persia;623712
@AmigaNG

Is there a pin compatible cpu to replace the PA6T once Apple stops making them ( about a year from now)?


Not that I could find, and I trawled the net good and proper. The question came up at amigaworld.net too.

IMHO however I don't see this making any more or less sales for X1000.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: persia on March 22, 2011, 01:31:48 PM
That's not to say that XMOS isn't an interesting chip.  You can program it and put it inside robots and other remote control/sensing devices.  I'm intrigued with the idea of launching one on top of a model rocket.  The great thing is that if you don't recover XMOS from it's remote location you really aren't out much money and you can easily just program a replacement.  And all you need to get started is a USD 99 programming box.

One nice thing about XMOS is that it is a fairly powerful processor so any remote data gathered can be processed before being transmitted to your main location.  Not every remote location is going to have wifi or an ethernet cable available.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: ferrellsl on March 22, 2011, 01:35:37 PM
Quote from: jorkany;623471
Trevor already admitted this was a run for the 5 sample boards. Yet he still seems to refer to it as a "production run".

Now, unlike the automobile industry I know of no official measurement to qualify a computer board as a "production run" so lying would also be subjective. However the fact is the news item doesn't state that there are only five boards, and we don't even need to get into the whole history of false announcements A-eon has made in the past. So it's buyer beware.


I'll accuse him of missing every production deadline that's been set.  And I'll accuse him of using misleading language.  A 5-board test run and the release of some schematics does not equal "production".  Production implies quantity in mass and that the product (whatever is is) is ready to go to market.  The X1000 will most likely never be seen in quantities above 50, if at all.  And since when has lying been subjective?  You either tell the truth or you lie.  It's a boolean thing...most computer people understand that.  Are you sure you aren't a politician!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 22, 2011, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;623727
I'll accuse him of missing every production deadline that's been set.  And I'll accuse him of using misleading language.  A 5-board test run and the release of some schematics does not equal "production".  Production implies quantity in mass and that the product (whatever is is) is ready to go to market.  The X1000 will most likely never be seen in quantities above 50, if at all.  And since when has lying been subjective?  You either tell the truth or you lie.  It's a boolean thing...most computer people understand that.

What I mean is that there is no hard quantifiable value in the computer hardware industry that qualifies what "production" means, as opposed to something like the automotive industry. So even if they produce five boards they can call that a production run.

Personally, I think Trevor sank a bunch of money into this debacle and will say pretty much anything to break even - ANYTHING. That would be the businesslike thing to do, and I expect we're going to need a lot of popcorn this year.

Quote
Are you sure you aren't a politician!

Pretty sure but maybe I should run for office just in case!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 02:35:19 PM
Quote from: Kronos;623719
So if the A1000 (the real one) had been bog-standard IBM-AT-clone with an 68000 in the place where one would expect the 80286 and some obscure IO-chip clued to it, it would have triggered the same reactions like the A1000 with it's outstanding GFX, sound an OS had ?

It say the actual reaction would be lukewarm at best.

At the time the AT was current, I'd say yes it might have.
The 68K would have been able to run decent multitasking OS' (Xenix, OS9, Minix). The 80286 would have been far less capable.
The system you describe would have made a great server, multiple terminals could have been run from it.
Overall it would have been clearly superior to the Intel based alternative.

Further, as the Amiga advanced, that outstanding Graphics and Sound system you mention was a bottleneck to faster processors. By the end of the Amiga's life cycle RTG and other replacements for the original chipset made sense. And finally the move to PPC (since the 68060 topped out at less than 100Mhz) also made sense.

Only the OS was really worth retaining and now its a little long in the tooth.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: mechy on March 22, 2011, 02:39:00 PM
Obviously we can only know what aeon lets us know,and i have read their site.thats how i came to the conclusion this is nothing special.the obscure xorro bus is useless unless there are drivers to drive some unknown hardware plugged in...which doesn't exhist.

you can call it your new blender if you like.it doesn't make it amiga.But im sure you'll get yer boing stickers and such out to plaster all over the generic pc tower its in.the A1000 was something that had not been seen or thought of,it was custom built from scratch.the 3 main custom chips were built from scratch.

The original amiga 1000 had some custom chips you may of heard of,denise,agnus,paula etc.. ever heard of these?. so no its not valid.the x1000 is off the shelf parts.it bring nothing new to the field currently other than a dual core processor and some xmos stuff tacked on.

so that leaves me wondering if you've ever touched a real amiga let alone know what it is. lol



mech



Quote from: Dandy;623683
No - not yet.
But I will get one to find precisely that out. So the A1 X1k currently is interesting enough to me to get one and to find out more about it.

And you?



It will be MY NEW AMIGA.
That's all that counts for me...
You are of course free to think of it what you want...



This is also valid for the original A1000s from 1985and all subsequent C= Amiga models. Or do you honestly think all the resistors, capacitors, jacks and even the cpu have been designed and produced exclusively for the Amiga line of computers by C=?



So what?



And I have to wonder if YOU read the specs on their site...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: ferrellsl on March 22, 2011, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: jorkany;623741
What I mean is that there is no hard quantifiable value in the computer hardware industry that qualifies what "production" means, as opposed to something like the automotive industry. So even if they produce five boards they can call that a production run.

Personally, I think Trevor sank a bunch of money into this debacle and will say pretty much anything to break even - ANYTHING. That would be the businesslike thing to do, and I expect we're going to need a lot of popcorn this year.


Pretty sure but maybe I should run for office just in case!


Totally agree with you in all respects! What seat will you be campaigning for?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 02:44:47 PM
I'd like to address the pessimism that has persistently haunted this thread. The X1000 will be built. The components have already been purchased so it would be foolish not to finish the project.
Also, you all keep acting like A-eon is Trevor Dickinson's project alone. He has two partner (one an old friend of his the other Ben Hermans of Hyperion).
There will only be a limited number of X1000s. PA6T processor are now a rare commodity. So future models will probably be based on other PPCs (one possibility being the P5 processors from Freescale).

You all pontificate on missed target dates and BS about popcorn, but you fail to understand that these guys are serious. They wouldn't have invested their money in the components, and the design, if they weren't.
Don't like the system? Aren't going to buy one? Fine. There won't be that many produced and I'm sure they'll have no problem selling every one.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: mechy on March 22, 2011, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623709
Because I believe :) But also because of some of details I've read in Amiga Future, because there does general feel that there is a lot more interest in this system than say the Sam systems, because I have talked too and seen a lot of users who have not say yet got an OS4 system (like myself) really consider getting this one, and because hardware wise it gives OS4 a much better future than being stuck on old Amigas or old Macs.

"It's almost 25 years since Commodore released the A1000 model that launched the line in the summer of 1985, and with the launch of the X1000 we will usher in a new beginning for the AmigaOS platform. Just as Commodore did with the A1000, we're aiming at the high-end first, with a powerful desktop computer aimed at the professional and serious hobbyist markets"

I see no problem their.


"The launch of the A1000 offered something new, and the X1000 will do the same."

How many other computers features a Xmos chip, Xorro Expansion Slot, and a Dual Core PA6T-1682M PPC 64Bit 2Ghz processor?

"the X1000 will once more make the AmigaOS platform the best choice for truly creative and unique applications. it is this return of AmigaOS to the high-end that truly ushers in a new beginning."

Hopeful we will see something unique with the Xmos chip and the power of the X1000 should be enough for any type of demanding app like Blender or Hollywood so basically hardware wont be the problem, it will be all software getting better GFX drives, making the OS Dual Core and writing the apps to take full advantage of the hardware is going to be the difficult part.


What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,except its specs are way slower and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 02:50:32 PM
Quote from: mechy;623751
What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,except its specs are way slower and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL

No, what AmigaNG was describing is the fastest PPC based system designed to run AmigaOS4. At almost twice the speed of the SAM460 with two X16 PCIe slots. Personally I'd relegate the XMOS component to a hobbyist curiousity, but the rest  of the system is a solid improvement over current AOS4 hardware and advances NG systems to a new level of performance.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: mechy on March 22, 2011, 02:52:16 PM
Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

Mech



Quote from: Iggy;623750
I'd like to address the pessimism that has persistently haunted this thread. The X1000 will be built. The components have already been purchased so it would be foolish not to finish the project.
Also, you all keep acting like A-eon is Trevor Dickinson's project alone. He has two partner (one an old friend of his the other Ben Hermans of Hyperion).
There will only be a limited number of X1000s. PA6T processor are now a rare commodity. So future models will probably be based on other PPCs (one possibility being the P5 processors from Freescale).

You all pontificate on missed target dates and BS about popcorn, but you fail to understand that these guys are serious. They wouldn't have invested their money in the components, and the design, if they weren't.
Don't like the system? Aren't going to buy one? Fine. There won't be that many produced and I'm sure they'll have no problem selling every one.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: jorkany on March 22, 2011, 03:14:00 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;623747
Totally agree with you in all respects! What seat will you be campaigning for?


Well, on the beaches here there's a limit to bikini sizes and how much they can cover. Not so much an office, but I'm pretty sure there must be an elected official who does the measurements...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: mechy;623757
Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

Mech

Not that I've got anything against the PegII, but I'll take my Powermac over one.
Plus the X1000 operates at 2Ghz. That's about twice rthe speed of most common Pegasos G4s.
Then there's the fact that this is the first dual core PPC used in an AOS system and the fact that the board uses PCIe expansion slots.
Considerably more than a Peg II IMO.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kronos on March 22, 2011, 03:50:36 PM
@iggy


A 68k based "AT" might have had some impact in specialized fields, but overally it would've been a complete failure (not compatible with any SW, slower than a 80286 without offering any real benefits).

Sure in the end the intregrated GFX and sound helped the demise of the Amiga but in 1985-90 it was exactly what set it apart from the competion.

Comparing the X1000 to the Peg2 on bare specs is more than a bit unfair when you ignore the fact that there are 6 years (and counting) between the release-dates. Back than a G4 at 1GHz was closer to mainstream specs than that P6T is today. Add the pricing to the equation and it should become crystal clear that the Peg2 was a much more sensible offer back than the the X1000 will be in 2011(?).

Dual-Core under OS4 is just as interesting as dual-core on my ARESOne under AROS (read it's pointless) except that the later will eat the former for lunch if we get down to raw performance.

The number of P6Ts might be limited but so is the number of people prepared to spend 2000Euro (or more) for an obscure piece of HW based on a CPU moothballed 5 years ago.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 04:15:52 PM
Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.
And while I understand your bias (as an ARESOne owner) AROS still hasn't reached a point in its development where I feel comfortable using it.
If I had the hardware you have I'd be running Ubuntu and using UAE to run Amiga software.
I intend to keep using PPC hardware till the MorphOS team migrates elsewhere.
And I like and am impressed with what A-eon is creating.
Comparisons to X86 systems are pointless. Only comparisons to other AOS systems really matter, and in that regard this system is quite nice.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: persia on March 22, 2011, 04:22:36 PM
And in some ways the PA6T lives on in spirit in their A5 chip that powers the iPad 2 and (likely) the iPhone 5.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: amigadave on March 22, 2011, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: mechy;623746
Obviously we can only know what aeon lets us know,and i have read their site.thats how i came to the conclusion this is nothing special.the obscure xorro bus is useless unless there are drivers to drive some unknown hardware plugged in...which doesn't exhist.

you can call it your new blender if you like.it doesn't make it amiga.But im sure you'll get yer boing stickers and such out to plaster all over the generic pc tower its in.the A1000 was something that had not been seen or thought of,it was custom built from scratch.the 3 main custom chips were built from scratch.

The original amiga 1000 had some custom chips you may of heard of,denise,agnus,paula etc.. ever heard of these?. so no its not valid.the x1000 is off the shelf parts.it bring nothing new to the field currently other than a dual core processor and some xmos stuff tacked on.

so that leaves me wondering if you've ever touched a real amiga let alone know what it is. lol

mech

I don't totally disagree with everything you say, but you don't give the X1000 any credit for the differences it will have.  No, it is not comparable to the A1000 when it was first released, but I doubt any system in the future will ever match what the A1000 accomplished.  I also agree that the X1000 has been over hyped by some people.  I don't buy into all the claims that have been made, but I do admit that the X1000 will be unique in the world of personal computers with the features they are including on the Nemo motherboard.  Yes, you are right that the XMOS chip and Xorro slots have no implementation (yet), but that is part of the excitement and difference this board brings to hobby computing, the chance to invent something new, not thought of before, or at least not created before on any hobby computer.  It is a gimmick and might never bear any fruit, but there is a chance that someone might get creative and lucky and come up with something just as interesting and groundbreaking as the NewTek Video Toaster was, when it was first released.  No one can tell what will be created in the future with this unique motherboard design and odd, technically crippled OS from the past.  I don't have any hopes that the X1000 is going to be a commercial success, or that it will bring the Amiga out of obscurity, back into the main stream of computing, but I am curious to see what happens over the next 2 to 3 years with it and hope for the best for Trevor.  If I had unlimited funds, I would even buy an X1000 for myself, just because it will be the fastest and best way to run AmigaOS4.x and due to the scarcity of the PA6T, will likely be a very limited edition product in the long and twisted history of the Amiga.

I am a MorphOS2.x user and fan, but that does not stop me from admiring what Trevor set out to do (I feel sorry for him because of the difficulties and skeptics he has to deal with to complete this project, plus I don't trust his partner, Mr. Hermanns, and I don't think he was told the truth at the beginning of the project, before he started spending thousands of dollars on it).

Stock up on the popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show, because the X1000 is going to be full of surprises (and probably disappointments) along it's long journey from inception to final product.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kronos on March 22, 2011, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: Iggy;623773
Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.


Dunno bout you, but I think you just perfectly described what is meant by the term "mothballed".

Quote


And while I understand your bias (as an ARESOne owner)


*lol* .........
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: the_leander on March 22, 2011, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: Iggy;623773
Mothballed? No the PA6T was discontinued before it had a chance to find much of a market.


So yeah, mothballed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mothballed):

—Idiom
4.
in mothballs, a.
in disuse or in storage, especially with reference to standby equipment.
b.
(of ideas) dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation.

Either way, the fact that they're using a discontinued chip rather than one currently in production kinda makes a joke re claims of this taking the Amiga forward in any way, it's the computing equivalent of neanderthal man or betamax.

Sure, a G4 of some description might not have had the appeal of some new supah seekrit uber chip, but it'd have got the job done, not to mention offered a fairly reasonable price/performance margin. But that's a whole other discusion.

Don't get me wrong, in terms of the ultimate in rare equipment bragging rights the X1000 will certainly go way up the ranks. But I can't help but wonder where that will leave the community as a whole. The Sam 460 seems to have been completely ignored in this and that machine, despite it's inherent limitations at least offered a semi sane price tag.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 22, 2011, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: the_leander;623813
So yeah, mothballed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mothballed):

—Idiom
4.
in mothballs, a.
in disuse or in storage, especially with reference to standby equipment.
b.
(of ideas) dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation.


Apple purchased PA-Semi in order to use their design expertise. They had no use for a PPC processor (even one that probably had been designed with Apple in mind). After all, Apple has switched to X86 processors.

Mothballed, infers stored for future use. The PA6T was discontinued with a limited supply set aside for existing customers.

The decision to discontinue production has nothing to due with the PA6T's value, rather its is due to the fact that Apple has no desire to manufacture processors for other companies - period.

Except for IBMs G5 level processors, and their Power7 series, the PA6T still remains one of the most powerful PPC processors made.

As to "dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation", apparently it is about to be used for one final product. And I like it (and would buy one if I could).
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: the_leander on March 22, 2011, 06:01:16 PM
Quote from: Iggy;623825
Apple purchased PA-Semi in order to use their design expertise. They had no use for a PPC processor (even one that probably had been designed with Apple in mind). After all, Apple has switched to X86 processors.


We're all well aware of the PA-Semi purchase, thanks.

Quote from: Iggy;623825

Mothballed, infers stored for future use. The PA6T was discontinued with a limited supply set aside for existing customers.


Again, not helping your case here, no matter how you try to define the term.

Quote from: Iggy;623825

As to "dismissed as unworthy of further deliberation", apparently it is about to be used for one final product. And I like it (and would buy one if I could).


It has been dismissed by the people responsible for it's production. That a handful have been bought up from some warehouse some place and put to use in something Apple have no interest in is irrelevant. Even if you personally find it interesting.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Daedalus on March 22, 2011, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: mechy;623757
Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!

And I think pretty much everyone here is well aware of the facts. I doubt anyone here's gonna be fooled into thinking this is a quad-core / SLI / DDR3 beater, and shell out for it on that basis, and most likely is well aware of how much cheaper a PC of that standard would be. So why go on and on about it? Do you really feel the need to say it again, just in case someone down the back there didn't hear you?

Quote
The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.

In this day and age it's much more difficult to be as revolutionary as the A1000 was. Complete revolution is even beyond development giants like Apple and IBM, and at this stage it's more evolution. And in those terms it's a huge step in OS 4 terms. What's wrong with using standard connectors like PCI-e? Did everyone not go nuts trying to bodge PCI slots onto their Amigas a few years back, just to be able to use standard cards? Look, it's been developed specifically for OS4 because there was no other way OS4 was going to progress otherwise. It's bloody expensive, but we're well aware of it. I won't be buying one at that price unless I inherit a heap of cash or win the lottery. I know it's overpriced and underpowered. But I don't go on and on about it as if anyone who was interested in it was mental, or as if I couldn't possibly believe how *anyone* would be interested just because I'm not buying one. I think it's a fantastic bit of work from a small team for a small market.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 22, 2011, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: mechy;623751
What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,except its specs are way slower and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL

ok fine, now that you've stated your opinion many times can you please stop trolling in this thread:smack:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: the_leander on March 22, 2011, 06:30:01 PM
If you feel he's trolling, report it.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Boudicca on March 22, 2011, 07:15:50 PM
I'm struggling to see why anyone is "Dissin" the X1000, compare against this, compare against that, as much as anyone likes, but whatever a PC super spec'ed or not, it is worth $1 at a car boot or ebay in less than 10 years time. The X1000 even if it is used will be worth 5 or more times the purchase price in the same period.

Anyone flogging any Amiga compatible device for peanuts at the moment, must get a grip and put it back in the cupboard its only going to appreciate not depreciate. Amiga has already been to the $1 mark and has been climbing ever since.

I really cannot see how its an equal comparison. One is a commodity the other is a speciality, commodities never have any value beyond their purchase price.

The Amiga X1000 is infinitely more collectable unlike a CUSA based pc which is worth only the case.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Franko on March 22, 2011, 07:30:31 PM
@ Boudiccia

After spending the past 7 weeks buying old Vic20, C64 & Amiga stuff you've got that right, all this stuff is forever going up and up in price and looks set to continue... :)

The only thing I've found on eBay at the moment where the prices are going through the roof other than the Amiga are SNES RPG games bought several over the past few weeks and all have been well over £100 each, some are even fetching over £300 right now.

Tempting as it might be I aint selling a thing SNES or CBM again as it's costing me a small fortune getting my collections back together that I sold off years ago due to lack of space, lesson learned, never again... :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 22, 2011, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: the_leander;623840
If you feel he's trolling, report it.

good point:idea:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: amigadave on March 23, 2011, 12:36:53 AM
Quote from: the_leander;623813
......... at least offered a semi sane price tag.


Sane prices and anything related to the Amiga community are contradictions of terms.  :)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: dammy on March 23, 2011, 01:30:07 AM
Quote from: amigadave;623957
Sane prices and anything related to the Amiga community are contradictions of terms.  :)


I'll bite, what do you consider "sane" pricing as far as Amigas are concerned?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 23, 2011, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: dammy;623971
I'll bite, what do you consider "sane" pricing as far as Amigas are concerned?

I don't think its fair to expect small production runs of relatively specialized boards to be price competitive with mass merchandised PC motherboards.

Sane? Are any of us sane?

I'm actually looking at a motherboard that would be half as fast as the X1000 with a single core processor. And it would still cost hundreds more than a cheap X86.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: amigadave on March 23, 2011, 02:51:50 AM
Quote from: Iggy;623991
I don't think its fair to expect small production runs of relatively specialized boards to be price competitive with mass merchandised PC motherboards.

Sane? Are any of us sane?

I'm actually looking at a motherboard that would be half as fast as the X1000 with a single core processor. And it would still cost hundreds more than a cheap X86.

Exactly my point!  None of us are sane to be spending the amount of time and money we do on outdated, underpowered computer systems that can't do any tasks that cheaper and faster systems could do.

But I don't mind being insane so much and sometimes I actually am proud of it.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Argo on March 23, 2011, 03:36:56 AM
@Thread

  ODFG, Really guys.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 23, 2011, 04:13:02 AM
Quote from: Argo;623999
@Thread

  ODFG, Really guys.

Oregon Department of Fish and Game? I can't find a definition for that acronym/abbreviation (ODFG). What's it mean?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 23, 2011, 09:58:41 AM
Quote from: AmigaNG;623709


...
Hopeful we will see something unique with the Xmos chip and the power of the X1000 should be enough
...



What do you think of my idea for a project that could make good use of Xena/Xorro:
steam operated model steam locomotive in H0 scale (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56476)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kesa on March 23, 2011, 10:21:51 AM
Quote from: Dandy;624049
What do you think of my idea for a project that could make good use of Xena/Xorro:
steam operated model steam locomotive in H0 scale (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56476)

Oi! That was my idea!
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 23, 2011, 01:32:58 PM
Quote from: mechy;623746


Obviously we can only know what aeon lets us know,and i have read their site.thats how i came to the conclusion this is nothing special.



You're right as long as you compare the A1 X1k to the latest developments on e.g. the WIntel side.
But we are talking about our Amiga hobby here.
And as soon as you compare the A1 X1k to all other existing Amiga incarnations it is special and thrilling - at least for me and some others.

Quote from: mechy;623746


the obscure xorro bus is useless unless there are drivers to drive some unknown hardware plugged in...which doesn't exhist.



Having already read the last sentence of this posting I now could reply with some doubts regarding you having ever used an Amiga, but that's not what I'm aiming at.
When I had my first Amiga back in 1988/89, it was common that users had new ideas of what could be done with this machine and REALISED them. They did not wait for others to do it for them. I see this situation in the best Amiga tradition. So do not moan about the uselessness of the Xorro bus - come up with ideas what it could be used for and how!

Quote from: mechy;623746


You can call it your new blender if you like.it doesn't make it amiga.



Do you really want the discussion of "What is an Amiga?" here?

Quote from: mechy;623746


But im sure you'll get yer boing stickers and such out to plaster all over the generic pc tower its in.



I don't mind "generic PC towers" as long as they meet my need for expandability.
And - btw - the case of my towered A4kD-PPC just has one sticker on it: "Powered by Amiga".

Quote from: mechy;623746


the A1000 was something that had not been seen or thought of,it was custom built from scratch.



I dare to disagree here.
It was NOT custom built from the scratch - just think of all the capacitors and resistors inside - and also the MC68000 cpu - none of them was specifically designed for use in Amigas.

Quote from: mechy;623746


the 3 main custom chips were built from scratch. The original amiga 1000 had some custom chips you may of heard of,denise,agnus,paula etc..



..., which are outdated today. That's why I replaced them with a pci graphics card (Voodoo4) and a pci sound card (Terratec 512i digital) in my A4kPPC.

Quote from: mechy;623746


ever heard of these?.



Not just that - I also used them long enough to get my eyes spoiled by them (Agnus & Denise & CBM 1081).

Quote from: mechy;623746


so no its not valid.



Of course you are free to have your own opinion - but it does not change the fact that I see it this way.

Quote from: mechy;623746


the x1000 is off the shelf parts.



The A1k also was mainly built from "off the shelf parts" from my POV.

Quote from: mechy;623746


it bring nothing new to the field currently other than a dual core processor and some xmos stuff tacked on.



Dual core cpu's, 64 bit and "some xmos stuff" actually IS new to the Amiga field.

Quote from: mechy;623746


so that leaves me wondering if you've ever touched a real amiga let alone know what it is. lol

mech



I think I already replied to this quite at the beginning of this posting.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 23, 2011, 01:44:42 PM
Quote from: mechy;623757


Pointing out the shortcomings of this is not pessimism,its just the facts ma'am!
The issue is not weather they will built it or not, i give them credit for taking on a project like this. what i dislike is the reference to the A1000 they make,trying to pull it off as something new. its not new,i would say other than the dual core processor,this is nothing more special that a PEG II.
It has nothing exciting,new or revolutionary as the A1000 did.its not the amiga savior.Either people have their blinders on or just ignore the facts.



Sorry - but calling dual core cpus, 64 bit and xena "not new in Amiga field" is just ignorant.

Quote from: mechy;623757


I'm all for moving forward but this is the same old regurgitated stuff in a pretty package.



Really?
When has it been available before?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 23, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
Thanks Dandy,
All points that needed to be made. This is a new and exciting system with a lot of features that have never been tried in the Amiga market. I too am looking forward to it.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Kronos on March 23, 2011, 02:16:18 PM
Quote from: Dandy;624049
What do you think of my idea for a project that could make good use of Xena/Xorro:
steam operated model steam locomotive in H0 scale (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56476)


If (and I mean IF) that actually is a good use for an XMOS chip it also is a perfect example of why the intregration on the mobo makes no sense.

You would have to place your 2000Euro X1000 really close to your H0-set running several non-hotplug wires in between both.

Use an existing XMOS-kit connect it via USB or Ethernet (both provide more than enough throughput for 1 lowres videolink and a bunch of signals) and you will not only reduce the risk of killing your expensive kit, but you might even get away with useing a less expensive one (honestly that were HW like the Efika or the Beagleboard would be optimal).
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 23, 2011, 05:11:08 PM
Quote from: amigadave;623957
Sane prices and anything related to the Amiga community are contradictions of terms.  :)


Well for example, I don't recall the Pegasos 2 to be "insanely priced" for its specifications/performance back in 2004. Sure, maybe somewhat high priced on the introduction in comparison to cheap-end x86, but never insane, and it actually dropped gradually during its entire time in the market.

The lowest price for a new Pegasos 2 happened just before it left the market; $399 (incl 1GHz G4 CPU card).
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 23, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;624112
..The lowest price for a new Pegasos 2 happened just before it left the market; $399 (incl 1GHz G4 CPU card).

good luck trying to find a nice Peg2 remotely close to that price nowadays;)...nice boards even today for running AOS & MOS & even AROS (i think?)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: takemehomegrandma on March 23, 2011, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: klx300r;624113
good luck trying to find a nice Peg2 remotely close to that price nowadays;)...


Well who would have known? ;)

Quote
nice boards even today for running AOS & MOS & even AROS (i think?)


It's *the best* option for OS4 today. When it comes to MorphOS, then a Mac Mini (or PowerMac) is both much cheaper and more powerful...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: F1Lupo on March 23, 2011, 07:41:25 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;624114
Well who would have known? ;)

LOL..I tried for quite a while to find a PegII before buying my Samflex@800 with no luck. Today I'd personally buy the new Sam460ex by ACube fopr the same price range over the old PegII's (to run Os4.x anyway) so as to be able to use the new pci-e video cards & also because ACube has proven time and again to deliver good quality products with great customer support

err anyhow back to the topic, great news that A-Eon & Varisys are back on track with the X1000..it's gonna be a special machine for many of us :-)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: wawrzon on March 23, 2011, 08:04:00 PM
production being in progress at 18th the boards should be ready any day now. at least this is what im accustommed to, as progress reports individual computers provide on a1k.org when assembling their hardware. looking forward to status update.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 23, 2011, 09:21:33 PM
There is a PegII listed on MorphZone.org
Listing states the following.

"For sale is Pegasos II system:

- AmigaOS 4.1 original CD with BOX and manuals
- PowerPC G4 @ 1133 MHz (cooling changed to better one)
- 1 GB RAM (in one single module)
- DVD-RW drive
- 80 GB hard disk
- Radeon 9250 128 MB graphics card
- ATX PSU
- Low Profile black case

Price: 475 EUR ono

Sell of the mobo + CPU card only or any other combination of above components is possible !

Pictures available per e-mail."

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7779&forum=38

475 euros with AOS4 - a complete system (faster than a SAM460 - for less money)
Sounds like a good deal.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 24, 2011, 09:44:36 AM
Quote from: mechy;623751


What you have described is the typical,everyday modern PC,



No idea why you think so - he clearly wrote: "the X1000 will once more make..."

Quote from: mechy;623751


except its specs are way slower



Specs can't be slower or faster according to my understanding - they can be better or worse than those of the object in comparison.

Quote from: mechy;623751


and has a xmos chip tacked on thats of no practical use currently



The emphasis should be on "currently"...
Regarding the future you should use your imagination.

Quote from: mechy;623751


.. OH! and costs what,nearly 4X as much..LOL



That's O.K. for me as long as it thrills me 4x as much...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 24, 2011, 10:05:30 AM
Quote from: the_leander;623813


...
The Sam 460 seems to have been completely ignored in this and that machine, despite it's inherent limitations at least offered a semi sane price tag.



Yeah, as this machine is targetted at end users, while the A1 X1k is targetted at developers and geeks.
As I think there are more "end users" in this community than developers, it seems logical to me that the A1 X1k will be produced in lower volumes and thus be more expensive.
To me that makes sense...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 24, 2011, 10:14:26 AM
Quote from: Kesa;624059


Oi! That was my idea!



Really?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: fishy_fiz on March 24, 2011, 10:20:15 AM
Dual Core systems and 64 bit new in the Amiga field ? My 3 years old 3.86ghz core2duo AROS box would beg to differ, as would the 64bit version of AROS.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 02:48:48 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;624231
Dual Core systems and 64 bit new in the Amiga field ? My 3 years old 3.86ghz core2duo AROS box would beg to differ, as would the 64bit version of AROS.

As much as we like to make the comparison, neither MorphOS or AROS are AmigaOS. And in my post I specifically mentioned PPCs.
Dual core and 64 bit are new features for Amiga related PPC systems.

That's why I'm looking into Freescale's new P5 processors. They're 64bit and some offer dual cores.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on March 24, 2011, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: Iggy;624275
That's why I'm looking into Freescale's new P5 processors. They're 64bit and some offer dual cores.

Unless they're significantly cheaper then PA6T all they're good for is looking at them :lol:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 03:59:49 PM
We're not sure what the prices will be like. And they have some disadvantages when compared to the PA6T (no Altivec until the next revision, less PCIe lanes), but they do have a faster clock speed (2.2 Ghz).
But the main advantage is that the P5 is just going into production and the PA6T is out of production. A-eon has already mentioned the e5500 cored processors as a possible successor to their current processor.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on March 24, 2011, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: Iggy;624293
We're not sure what the prices will be like. And they have some disadvantages when compared to the PA6T (no Altivec until the next revision, less PCIe lanes), but they do have a faster clock speed (2.2 Ghz).
But the main advantage is that the P5 is just going into production and the PA6T is out of production. A-eon has already mentioned the e5500 cored processors as a possible successor to their current processor.


Yeah I know, I was midly joking in my original reply :)

The problem with e5500 cored CPUs is quantity. The smallest order if I remember correctly is 20 000 units. If A-eon goes and uses these processors in a hypothetical successor to the X1000 and they buy a few hundreds of them then the final product will be no cheaper then the X1000 as the CPU will again be very expensive(if I remember correctly, Trevor said that the PA6T is around 450-500 $).
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;624297
Yeah I know, I was midly joking in my original reply :)

The problem with e5500 cored CPUs is quantity. The smallest order if I remember correctly is 20 000 units. If A-eon goes and uses these processors in a hypothetical successor to the X1000 and they buy a few hundreds of them then the final product will be no cheaper then the X1000 as the CPU will again be very expensive(if I remember correctly, Trevor said that the PA6T is around 450-500 $).

I'm sure Freescale will sell them in lots of 100. But as you pointed out, the problem is price. They may not be any cheaper than the PA6T and the features do offer some drawbacks.
BTW - Having exchanged some messages with Trevor I'm inclined to believe the price range you mentioned.
So the future does give us some interesting options.

I've even discussed resurrecting the development of an MPC8610 based board with Bill Buck (due to his posted projects on the power2people website).
Although I'm not sure that sub 2.0Ghz 32bit PPCs make sense with the availability of cheap Apple G4s.

However, right now the P5010 and P5020 are some of the most powerful PPCs available.
And the future T5020 and T5040 will feature AltiVec instructions, 2.5 Ghz operation (or higher), more cores, and possibly some additional changes.
And then there's APM's Mamba and the other two unnamed processors listed on their roadmap after Titan.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on March 24, 2011, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: Iggy;624341
.

However, right now the P5010 and P5020 are some of the most powerful PPCs available.
And the future T5020 and T5040 will feature AltiVec instructions, 2.5 Ghz operation (or higher), more cores, and possibly some additional changes.
And then there's APM's Mamba and the other two unnamed processors listed on their roadmap after Titan.

The key issue, IMHO, is not performance, but price/performance ratio and price in absolute terms.
The future T5020 or T5040 may indeed prove to be very fast but if they're too expensive then it's quite pointless. A X1000 succesor should be (considerably)cheaper to make sense, IMHO, and ensure bigger production run.

I wonder if A-eon could achieve better economies of scale to sell both MOS and AOS4 systems. I guess as long as ben hermans is involved that is out of the question probably.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: the_leander on March 24, 2011, 08:15:59 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;624374

I wonder if A-eon could achieve better economies of scale to sell both MOS and AOS4 systems. I guess as long as ben hermans is involved that is out of the question probably.


Bang on on both counts, unfortunately.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 24, 2011, 09:52:35 PM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;624374
The key issue, IMHO, is not performance, but price/performance ratio and price in absolute terms.
The future T5020 or T5040 may indeed prove to be very fast but if they're too expensive then it's quite pointless. A X1000 succesor should be (considerably)cheaper to make sense, IMHO, and ensure bigger production run.

I wonder if A-eon could achieve better economies of scale to sell both MOS and AOS4 systems. I guess as long as ben hermans is involved that is out of the question probably.

I get the impression that Trevor Dickinson would like to do just that. But there are some hard feelings between Ben Hermans and the MorphOS development team. Also, Hermans with his ties to Hyperion has a vested interest in making sure that hardware designed to run AOS4 comes bundled with that OS.
Thats why, even if you want to run Linux on your SAM, you're forced to purchase a copy of AOS anyway (you can't buy an Acube motherboard without AOS bundled with the system).
This is another reason you don't see ports of MorphOS to Acube or A-eon motherboards. Sales of those boards for use under MorphOS would increase AOS4 sales.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 25, 2011, 07:08:59 AM
Quote from: Kronos;624090


If (and I mean IF) that actually is a good use for an XMOS chip it also is a perfect example of why the intregration on the mobo makes no sense.

You would have to place your 2000Euro X1000 really close to your H0-set running several non-hotplug wires in between both.



I'm still undecided whether I will use a cable connection or some sort of WLan tec for this.

Quote from: Kronos;624090


Use an existing XMOS-kit connect it via USB or Ethernet (both provide more than enough throughput for 1 lowres videolink and a bunch of signals)



Its more likely that I will use an HD pen cam.

Quote from: Kronos;624090


and you will not only reduce the risk of killing your expensive kit,



Why do you think that steering a model railway might kill the A1 X1k?

Quote from: Kronos;624090


but you might even get away with useing a less expensive one (honestly that were HW like the Efika or the Beagleboard would be optimal).



I also have some other things in mind where I would need the power of the A1 X1k for.
So all in all - for me the idea to have the XMOS chip onboard seems to be good.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 25, 2011, 07:11:08 AM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;624231


Dual Core systems and 64 bit new in the Amiga field ? My 3 years old 3.86ghz core2duo AROS box would beg to differ, as would the 64bit version of AROS.



Can I run AmigaOS (TM) on it?
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 25, 2011, 07:13:23 AM
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;624280


Unless they're significantly cheaper then PA6T all they're good for is looking at them :lol:



At least for those who cannot afford them...
;-)
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 25, 2011, 11:20:54 AM
Quote from: Dandy;624495
Can I run AmigaOS (TM) on it?

:roflmao:

That IS kind of the point, isn't it? You can't run AROS or MorphOS on an X1000, but that's not the point.
We no longer see too many blue vs red arguments (they're similar but different OS'), but why do we constantly have to hear "AROS is faster". "AROS runs on cheaper, common X86 hardware".

AROS won't run AOS4 apps (even MOS can run some AOS4 apps with a wrapper).
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Fats on March 25, 2011, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: Iggy;624517
You can't run AROS [snip] on an X1000


... yet.

Quote from: Iggy;624517
AROS won't run AOS4 apps


... yet.

Point is everything is possible with AROS if a developer wants to scratch an itch.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Iggy on March 25, 2011, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: Fats;624611
... yet.



... yet.

Point is everything is possible with AROS if a developer wants to scratch an itch.

greets,
Staf.

True of about every development environment Staf. I haven't heard from you recently. How are your projects going?

BTW - That statement "Trust me...                                              I know what I'm doing", I find it disturbing. For some weird reason I can picture people in Fukushima using it. Sounds like something that would trigger my instinct to flee.:roflmao:
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Dandy on March 26, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Iggy;624517
:roflmao:

That IS kind of the point, isn't it? You can't run AROS or MorphOS on an X1000, but that's not the point.
We no longer see too many blue vs red arguments (they're similar but different OS'), but why do we constantly have to hear "AROS is faster". "AROS runs on cheaper, common X86 hardware".

AROS won't run AOS4 apps (even MOS can run some AOS4 apps with a wrapper).



For me the decisive argument is not the price of the HW alone. I have a large collection of (old, but still usable) productive 68k Amiga applications - e.g. for CAE/CAD/CAM/CNC and electronics. Those apps aren't available any longer for any Amiga like system and to buy everything again for annother platform would exceed my financial possibilities.

From what I heard of AROS so far, it is not possible to run this software in AROS on cheap x86 HW without re-compiling it, which requires access to the source code.

So I would have to buy AROS equivalents of this software, which simply doesn't exist.
So AROS is out of the question for me.

If I realise my project, I want to avoid having to buy all the necessary apps again for a different platform, as I already have most of the required stuff on the Amiga platform.

Should MOS run on the A1 X1k one day and should it run even better than AOS on that HW I see no reason why I would not use MOS, provided it runs my apps flawlessly.

But until then AmigaOS seems to be the only solution for me...
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Fats on March 26, 2011, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: Iggy;624616

BTW - That statement "Trust me...                                              I know what I'm doing", I find it disturbing. For some weird reason I can picture people in Fukushima using it. Sounds like something that would trigger my instinct to flee.:roflmao:


Yeah, I took it of a movie (I think) and the guy who was saying that messed everything up all the time ...
Seems to not be that good of a movie because the quote is mostly what I remember from the movie.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: nicholas on March 26, 2011, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Dandy;624495
Can I run AmigaOS (TM) on it?


Amiga OS, yes. Hyperion OS, not yet.
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: Fransexy_ on March 26, 2011, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: nicholas;624809
Amiga OS, yes. Hyperion OS, not yet.


How Aros is more AmigaOS than "Hyperion OS" for you is beyond me and any sane person
Title: Re: X1000 Nemo Rev. 2 Motherboard in Production
Post by: nicholas on March 26, 2011, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Fransexy_;624810
How Aros is more AmigaOS than "Hyperion OS" for you is beyond me and any sane person


What are you blathering on about you insane person?