OS 3.1 Open Sourcing Question

[beakster2]

Hypothetically, what is to stop Amiga Inc releasing the OS 3.1 source code under a GPL or similar license?

As a 20 year old operating system surely it no longer has any commercial value.  I believe Hyperion owns the rights to OS4.0+ but Amiga Inc still has 3.1 so could do it if they wanted to.

If they could legally do it, would any amount of pressure from the community persuade them I wonder.  I guess its doubtful as they are too busy licensing the brand to consumer electronics companies.

[koaftder]

Hypothetically, what is to stop Amiga Inc releasing the OS 3.1 source code under a GPL or similar license?

As a 20 year old operating system surely it no longer has any commercial value.  I believe Hyperion owns the rights to OS4.0+ but Amiga Inc still has 3.1 so could do it if they wanted to.

If they could legally do it, would any amount of pressure from the community persuade them I wonder.  I guess its doubtful as they are too busy licensing the brand to consumer electronics companies.

No point in it, it's already been reimplemented 3 times over.

[beakster2]

No point in it, it's already been reimplemented 3 times over.

The point would be from an enthusiasts perspective it would be interesting to read, understand, compile and generally play with.  Not just 3.1, earlier version would be very interesting too.

[hishamk]

Nothing to stop them, they just probably have no reason to do so. They would probably consider it charity work and they're not in that business for sure.

Come to think of it, I have no idea what business Amiga Inc. is in. It seems like it's just a shell IP company that may lurk for a while before it becomes a full fledged patent troll.

I would guess the patents inherent in the Amiga assets provide a basis for some compelling lawsuits.

Though that may not be the case since I guess Gateway (now owned by Acer) still owns the patents but has licensed them to Amiga Inc?

It's all very complicated and messy.

AROS FTW.

[Duce]

I would assume there is some licensing (perhaps cross licensing even) and patent issues that would prevent it from being entirely open sourced, particularly in regards to the GUI interface which Commodore was far from the first to implement.  Amiga did GUI the best back in the day, but were far from the first to realize/implement the mouse/GUI concept.

Then there's the fact that any remaining IP holders or licensees are seemingly still hellbent on graverobbing the legacy of the platform as a whole, which is even more tragically sad.  The original Commodore WB/OS would absolutely flourish even in this day and age if it was open sourced, it's still a stellar system.

[adolescent]

This is assuming that Amiga Inc even has, or has access to, the original source code.

[itix]

I believe Hyperion owns the rights to OS4.0+ but Amiga Inc still has 3.1 so could do it if they wanted to.

I think it could be breach against Amiga Inc/Hyperion settlement so I dont find it likely Amiga Inc could open source it. On the other hand I dont see Hyperion has rights to open source 3.1 because they dont have enough rights to it (only to modify, sell etc).

You could always ask from Hyperion's lawyer, Ben Hermans.

[bloodline]

Hypothetically, what is to stop Amiga Inc releasing the OS 3.1 source code under a GPL or similar license?

As a 20 year old operating system surely it no longer has any commercial value.  I believe Hyperion owns the rights to OS4.0+ but Amiga Inc still has 3.1 so could do it if they wanted to.

If they could legally do it, would any amount of pressure from the community persuade them I wonder.  I guess its doubtful as they are too busy licensing the brand to consumer electronics companies.

Lots of 68k asm, BCPL and whatever variant of C they used (probably missing a working compiler now)... Honestly just go to AROS.org and download the sources and enjoy, I did and do x

[billt]

Hypothetically, what is to stop Amiga Inc releasing the OS 3.1 source code under a GPL or similar license?

As a 20 year old operating system surely it no longer has any commercial value.  I believe Hyperion owns the rights to OS4.0+ but Amiga Inc still has 3.1 so could do it if they wanted to.

If they could legally do it, would any amount of pressure from the community persuade them I wonder.  I guess its doubtful as they are too busy licensing the brand to consumer electronics companies.

Didn't the conclusion of the lawsuit between Ainc and Hyperion say that Hyperion has exclusive distribution rights to OS3.1? Wouldn't Ainc open-sourcing OS3.1 go against that?

From what I understood of things, Ainc did not actually HAVE OS3.1 to provide to Hyperion, and Hyperion got it from Olaf Barthel instead. Regardless of agreements and lawsuit endings, do Ainc have OS3.1 in their possession to do even be capable of open-sourcing it?

[Fats]

Hypothetically, what is to stop Amiga Inc releasing the OS 3.1 source code under a GPL or similar license?

Common sense ?

greets,
Staf.

[Duce]

This is assuming that Amiga Inc even has, or has access to, the original source code.

Aye, that's the big question isn't it.  Always been a lot of hearsay on who has legality of what, but it's been such a gongshow over the years who really knows :/

[beakster2]

Common sense ?

greets,
Staf.

Why would opensourcing it at this stage be insensible?  ID software open sourced Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake with no ill effects on their business.

If there are problems with 3.1 specifically, 3.0 or even 1.2/1.3 would be nice to see in the public domain.

Regarding the patent concerns I think all of the patents have now expired.

[takemehomegrandma]

No point in it, it's already been reimplemented 3 times over.

Well, I can *definitely* see the point!

The 3 re-implementations are for "NG Enthusiasts" only, while the fourth one (or really, the first one, since Amiga OS was and is the *original*, the only *real* Amiga)



This one is still is of very much interest to:

1) Retro fans using real Amiga HW, or UAE
2) Retro fans using new HW that mimics the real Amiga, like Minimig
3) Fans (not sure it's right to call them "retro" only) that wants to *improve* the real Amiga HW, I'm of course thinking of NatAmi!

None of these has the *slightest* interest in any of the three re-implementations. It's not difficult to understand. They want to use the real Amiga 68k apps in the true way, the real classical Amiga games, demos, etc, and flawless compatibility is the most important thing. There is no alternative to the real Amiga OS then, running in a 68k environment with all the custom chips in place (either in HW or in UAE). "NG Enthusiasts" has a different view, they want to use an Amiga environment in a way that is as close to 2011 level computing as possible; modern Internet apps, playing modern media files, etc. Amiga compatibility is an appreciated bonus, but that's not the main thing. To them, it's mostly a matter of choosing one or more of the re-implementations.

What the Amiga 68k fans might be interested in however, might be a continuation and improvements of Amiga OS (and by that I'm *not* talking about Hyperions OS4, which is yet another re-implementation, and the most immature one even). Especially NatAmi would benefit from this, since they will need an OS that can make the most use of the new features of their board. That's what I call "Amiga OS+" in the picture above in lack of a better word. An evolved version of the real Amiga OS 68k. The NatAmi crew will probably make their own third party add-ons and replacement if they ever get this far with their HW, possibly using some stuff from AROS, and writing some stuff themselves. It will however be completely unofficial of course.

Amiga OS 68k can only be distributed by Hyperion AFAIK thanks to that crappy "agreement" (cough cough (read: robbery)). But not even they can release it as open source, since Amiga Inc still owns it. You think it's a mess? It truly is!

(Edit: Oh BTW, the time of the first MorphOS release is one month too late in the picture, my bad... )

[eb15]

Even the pre 1994 Commodore might not have had the full source code rights to all the parts of Amiga OS 3.1 and below.   Over the years they licensed screen fonts from Adobe, outline font stuff from Compugraphics, the speech stuff from another company, ARexx, tripos dos stuff and so on....

For an open source enthusiast, it makes more sense to support AROS m68k-amiga achieving a release state that's at least as capable as Amiga OS 3.1 was/is.

[560SL]

Well, I can *definitely* see the point!

Cheers to that!

I'd definetly count myself in category 3, not only because my current HW setup represents a substantial amount of money, but also because I still like using the "original" AmigaOS. This does not mean I'm against any form of taking things ahead. As a category 3, I'm dreaming of OS 3.95 and some bad a** replacement for my CSPPC.

Many claim there would be no market for the latter, and that it would be too expensive for anyone to seriously consider. Well, consider Stachu's modified CSPPC cards reach prices as high as 1300€ on eBay these days. Add to that the HW we get from Individual Computers seems to sell out pretty quick, keep in mind it is made for a computer that was put out of production 15 years ago.