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Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: Foebane on December 28, 2021, 07:50:56 PM

Title: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 28, 2021, 07:50:56 PM
I was on the English Amiga Board for years, because I needed to contact Toni Wilen of WinUAE fame and as far as I know, he only replies to questions there.

However, I got banned permanently months ago for defending the Amiga sound chip and inadvertantly insulting someone about it, but I'm not even sure if that's the reason why as none was ever given.

I'm just wondering if I can somehow contact a moderator at EAB to appeal their decision. I am deeply remorseful about the whole incident.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 29, 2021, 08:01:37 AM
I could join again under a different email and username, but I'm sure they look for IP addresses so that wouldn't work.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 29, 2021, 04:59:04 PM
Is no-one going to comment?

Is there at least a way of contacting Toni Wilen about WinUAE use outside of EAB?
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: klx300r on December 29, 2021, 05:17:23 PM
Is no-one going to comment?

Is there at least a way of contacting Toni Wilen about WinUAE use outside of EAB?
well there's not much to comment unless one was in the specific thread where you think you got banned? and even then I'm pretty sure the mods there will give a warning on a 1st time offence so therefore 'no comment' ;)
For getting a hold of Toni I would think there might be a contact email or site on his WinUAE distro?
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 29, 2021, 06:24:10 PM
I was given no warning. It suddenly happened.

The context is, someone was saying synth sound chips were superior to Paula and I told them to eff off in a moment of rage defending Paula, left the post for several hours and came back to find the banned message.

Now I know there are rules on EAB, as in any site, but I wasn't specifically insulting the person, I'm sure. Either way, I would've been given my warning then, but no.

I just found it unfair that they banned me for no reason as specified, not even mentioned the above, and somehow expect me to figure the reason out for myself, let alone accept it. I would at least like an appeal.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: klx300r on December 29, 2021, 08:13:49 PM
the way you explain the situation does sound odd as I've been a member of EAB for quite some time now and I've seen ALOT of hateful comments on that board especially during the red vs blue wars and even back then people always were given warning first then a cool down period....did you check your emails spam folder as maybe they left an email as obviously if you were banned you woudln't be able to retrieve any PMs
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 29, 2021, 08:36:13 PM
I don't think I had my settings so I could get emails from EAB at all, I opted out of them... I think. If I didn't, I never thought to check spam or email at all.

It wouldn't be an issue at all, but it seems Toni Wilen only posts and replies to comments on EAB, I saw no contact address in the WinUAE documentation.

Also, EAB is mostly, almost all about the games, yet I prefer Amiga demos.

However, the latest WinUAE is behaving strangely with my old configurations, it seems that JIT is slowing to a crawl on 4.9.0 and I don't know if Toni is deprecating JIT at all or not.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Pat the Cat on December 30, 2021, 12:01:31 PM
Congratulations on the ban. Wear it as a badge of honor. :) Me 2.

This thread suggests old config files not compatible with latest beta anyway.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=109203

Which means you have to make new config files with new versions because config system has changed.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 30, 2021, 01:22:35 PM
I was sorry to see you'd been banned as well, Pat the Cat, my commiserations.

But if Toni has changed the config system entirely, it's time for me to create new configurations as well.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: SpeedGeek on December 30, 2021, 02:24:00 PM
Congratulations on the ban. Wear it as a badge of honor. :) Me 2.

I'm waiting for kolla to chime in here next.  ;D

Now, in regards to the "Badge of Honor" club:
 
On EAB members are banned for serious infraction(s) of the EAB rules, it really is that simple. In most cases, at least one warning will be given but some cases will result in an instant ban.   

I'm not going to discuss the specifics of Foebane's case, but there were 2 infractions within a 2-3 month time period. He may have not been given an explicit "Next Time You Will Be Banned Warning" that he seems to think he should have been given, but he was fully aware that his offensive behavior had come to the mods attention.

BTW, I'm not the mod who banned him either. I'm only a Forum mod on EAB and it's the Global mods which actually do the banning there.

P.S. If you think it's tough on EAB, then try Amibay for a change. You can get banned there for no rules infraction of any kind under Amibay's "Common Sense" ban policy.  :P
   
 
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: kolla on December 30, 2021, 04:09:15 PM
It’s a silly place.

One silly thing is that when you are banned, you no longer have access to the messages, including those that may explain why you got banned.

Another silly thing is that you are no longer able to properly close your account and leave, your profile and any personal information you may have left there is kept as hostage, no longer easily accessible to you.

And then there is GDPR…
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Pat the Cat on December 30, 2021, 06:02:05 PM
I was sorry to see you'd been banned as well, Pat the Cat, my commiserations.

But if Toni has changed the config system entirely, it's time for me to create new configurations as well.

Oh I'm still laughing about it. Even though the evidence for being humerous was rapidly buried.

I think 4.9.0 JIT had a big rewrite, not surprising if it has a few bugs to iron out.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on December 30, 2021, 06:28:52 PM
The thing is, I'm using WinUAEs 4.0.1, 4.2.0 and 4.9.0 (the latter for just one demo that doesn't work on the other two, and for potential future ones).

I've got Windows 10, and I haven't yet come across a Windows update that has broken WinUAE functionality, so I figure if the old versions work fine, then why change the demos to work on the new one? Very old Win32 programs still work fine on Windows 10, and they wouldn't deliberately break them for a new Windows version, for compatibility's sake. And some people, especially the US military, still use WinXP, long after it was discontinued and lost support.

A potential problem could be Windows 11, but I've decided I'm not going to upgrade for many years yet, if at all. I actually wish I'd never upgraded from Win7.

Anyway, if particular old WinUAE versions work on my current Windows, why upgrade? 4.0.1, the oldest, is only a few years old anyway, and while on EAB I saw many queries to Toni from people using ancient versions of WinUAE from the Noughties!

I don't think upgrading WinUAE is strictly a necessity at the moment. Besides, it'll give Toni time to iron out the sheer number of bugs in his rewrite, because, as I said, JIT looks broken at the moment.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: kolla on January 01, 2022, 11:43:37 AM

On EAB members are banned for serious infraction(s) of the EAB rules, it really is that simple.

No it's not - no at all, it's enough to just be repetitive.

I did nothing serious to get banned, not at all. Once the "troll stamp" has been cast on you, it is used as excuse for just about anything - "Oh he is just a troll". It was written by certain people (who are not banned btw) that I've been using multiple accounts (untrue), that I was already banned on multiple forums already (untrue at the time), that I have psychologial issues (huh, 'cause everyone's a shrink? No, not at all) and more personal attack nonsense.

There is a tendency in this community that people fall into "camps", where certain "teams" and their "leaders" are glorified beyond what is healthy. It's not unique to Amiga, but this community is so tiny that this social concept is almost purified without much of the complexity found elsewhere. When an alpha-nerd says "troll", the geek followers ("minions") are only happy to act as a mob, across multiple forums and whatever. But it doesn't work in the long run, the world is larger than these bubbles, and technical problems don't vanish just because you get rid of the "trolls" that have been pointing them out. And sometimes alpha-nerds just pull the plug and sign off, leaving the "minions" in confusion, and the projects are left in disarray.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on January 01, 2022, 12:53:12 PM
I was on EAB for literally about ten years, I discovered to my surprise after I was banned, and I don't recall ever being temporarily banned for anything I posted.

HOWEVER, I remember that months before my permanent ban, I did start a thread about a Demoscene production that used a derogatory expression for the Amiga as its title, and I used it for the thread title, and I suppose that could be seen as inciting to troll and provoke people, and it certainly sparked debate as to, in my wording at the time, why an Amiga demo would bash the platform like this. The irony is, the Amiga demo in question had Japanese characters in its title and google did the translation for me, which was very open to interpretation, so the bashing wasn't obvious.

In the end, after the discussion was done, the mods closed the thread and gave me a polite warning and NO ban, not even temporary. So I suppose that, in combination with the main infraction, was enough to ban me for life.

I should've mentioned this at the start, but I really didn't think it would be relevant. And the rules for posting on EAB do say not to insult anyone outright.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: SpeedGeek on January 01, 2022, 02:50:08 PM
No it's not - no at all, it's enough to just be repetitive.

I did nothing serious to get banned, not at all. Once the "troll stamp" has been cast on you, it is used as excuse for just about anything - "Oh he is just a troll". It was written by certain people (who are not banned btw) that I've been using multiple accounts (untrue), that I was already banned on multiple forums already (untrue at the time), that I have psychologial issues (huh, 'cause everyone's a shrink? No, not at all) and more personal attack nonsense.

There is a tendency in this community that people fall into "camps", where certain "teams" and their "leaders" are glorified beyond what is healthy. It's not unique to Amiga, but this community is so tiny that this social concept is almost purified without much of the complexity found elsewhere. When an alpha-nerd says "troll", the geek followers ("minions") are only happy to act as a mob, across multiple forums and whatever. But it doesn't work in the long run, the world is larger than these bubbles, and technical problems don't vanish just because you get rid of the "trolls" that have been pointing them out. And sometimes alpha-nerds just pull the plug and sign off, leaving the "minions" in confusion, and the projects are left in disarray.

I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your case either. But I was one of the (not banned members) who called you a troll and (not surprisingly) there were many others too.

You had clearly perfected and demonstrated the technique of indirect or implied trolling. Always finding a suggestive or subtle way to turn the discussion negative.

As far as the allegation of having multiple EAB accounts, I doubt it was ever taken seriously by any of the mods. It's actually possible to either prove or disprove this in most cases.

As far as the matter of psychological issues, you have once again underestimated the expertise of the EAB moderating staff:

https://eab.abime.net/member.php?u=46386

P.S. Don't worry this is a troll friendly forum and you are welcome here. ;)
   
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: kolla on January 01, 2022, 07:45:52 PM
I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your case either. But I was one of the (not banned members) who called you a troll and (not surprisingly) there were many others too.

Of course there were, the same ones, again and again, that’s what I wrote. I’ve been around long enough to know how this works.

Quote
You had clearly perfected and demonstrated the technique of indirect or implied trolling. Always finding a suggestive or subtle way to turn the discussion negative.

Not for nothing - I’m not negative by default, but when certain Amiga projects again and again turn into shitshows, it’s hard to remain overly positive.

Quote
As far as the allegation of having multiple EAB accounts, I doubt it was ever taken seriously by any of the mods. It's actually possible to either prove or disprove this in most cases.

I am talking about accusations repeatedly made by other forum members, without any mods lifting an eye over that. And I can imagine there is a certain overlap with those who leave complaints.

Quote
As far as the matter of psychological issues, you have once again underestimated the expertise of the EAB moderating staff:

https://eab.abime.net/member.php?u=46386

You can find my name if you search publications in psychological research too, but so what?

Quote
P.S. Don't worry this is a troll friendly forum and you are welcome here. ;)

The way you and ThoR throw the troll term at each other… symptomatic.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: SpeedGeek on January 02, 2022, 02:34:11 PM
Of course there were, the same ones, again and again, that’s what I wrote. I’ve been around long enough to know how this works.

You still don't seem to understand that it was your own behavior (again and again) which invited this response. But regardless of how many complaints were made against you, in the end the mods made their own determination on those complaints.   

Quote
Not for nothing - I’m not negative by default, but when certain Amiga projects again and again turn into shitshows, it’s hard to remain overly positive.


If you don't like a certain Amiga project and you offer a brief, fair-minded and honest criticism that's one thing. But you all to often embarked on a much more destructive and repetitive marketing "Shitshow" against the projects you dislike... and that's exactly how you earn a negative reputation by default.

Quote
I am talking about accusations repeatedly made by other forum members, without any mods lifting an eye over that. And I can imagine there is a certain overlap with those who leave complaints.

Now, why I am not surprised that you failed to win any sympathy, for any unproven accusations made against you? In any case, it proves my point that the mods ignored these accusations in making their own determination on these various complaints.

Quote
The way you and ThoR throw the troll term at each other… symptomatic.

Don't you mean guest11527 (e.g. the anonymous version of ThoR)? Anyway, it seems that for a short time at least, you were both kindred spirits.

IIRC you were happy to reference him to attack my FastCache040+ coding project (on EAB) in the very early stage of it's development. Don't worry, I won't attempt to change your negative opinion of my project. ;)

However, it's interesting to note that you and he apparently had a falling out when he decided to help Hyperion (the Entertainer) become the heroic savior of our beloved Amiga OS. ;D   
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: utri007 on January 02, 2022, 10:19:45 PM

If you don't like a certain Amiga project and you offer a brief, fair-minded and honest criticism that's one thing. But you all to often embarked on a much more destructive and repetitive marketing "Shitshow" against the projects you dislike... and that's exactly how you earn a negative reputation by default.


This is good and valid point. I really don't understand people's desire to bash other projects and spend hours to it. What they wait dev to do? Something like "I do just like you order me to do" with their 1 000 000 x complaints.

I don't like Vampire, I think it is harmful to 68k scene many ways. I can write my opinion few times, but I don't pop up to Vampire fan's thread and start to repeat it 1000x and trying to convince devs to do like I think they should do.
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 03, 2022, 08:07:38 AM
<shrug>

I've been thrown out of loads of places, Usually for political reasons. A few I've left voluntarily.

EAB was just another bust from my point of view.

Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Foebane on January 03, 2022, 08:23:35 AM
Sorry to hear you were banned from EAB, Pat. I'm certain I remember your avatar, if not your name, at least.

I wouldn't give a damn about EAB neither, but what do you do about WinUAE queries?
Title: Re: Banned for life from English Amiga Board for NO specified reason - Appeal?
Post by: Pat the Cat on January 03, 2022, 02:19:52 PM
Sorry to hear you were banned from EAB, Pat. I'm certain I remember your avatar, if not your name, at least.

I wouldn't give a damn about EAB neither, but what do you do about WinUAE queries?

I don't have any. I'm a Linux user. :)

More importantly, I'm totally cool trustin Toni Wilen. He does have a great record on sorting bugs.

EDIT: You could try Paypaling a donation direct to the guy. Cut out the middle management.