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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: OlafS3 on April 09, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
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I have worked in the last months on a new distribution based on Aros 68k and added a new background pictures, icons, software, libraries and much more.
More info:
http://www.natami-news.de/html/aros_vision.html
I will also offer addon-packs:
CLI, Games and a special Grunch-database
Thank you to the tester.
It is planned to be integrated in Aros-distributions and will also be available as download.
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Nice to know, and hope it will evolve into the next Amiga OS version (at least for 68k).
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Superb!
Thank you for your great work with this!
Cannot wait to test it on real amiga
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BUG: The archive contains the "Executive" Trojan which hacks into the OS and damages it causing various problems and lockups with multitasking programs.
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nice work
I hope that this will be main OS on Natami :)
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that looks impressive! Well done!
I am a bit troubled though by what Chaoslord mentioned about a trojan being included?! Is this accurate?
(No way to test now myself, too busy with other things)
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that looks impressive! Well done!
I am a bit troubled though by what Chaoslord mentioned about a trojan being included?! Is this accurate?
(No way to test now myself, too busy with other things)
Great work.
Good question though.
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that looks impressive! Well done!
I am a bit troubled though by what Chaoslord mentioned about a trojan being included?! Is this accurate?
(No way to test now myself, too busy with other things)
It's a patch that is ill-advised for multitiasking on Amiga since it allows lower-priority tasks to be promoted to higher priority. That, in turn, allows things that should never be overruled by a lower-priority task to be overruled, etc. Calling it a trojan may be an exaggeration but either way, you should never run it.
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that looks impressive! Well done!
I am a bit troubled though by what Chaoslord mentioned about a trojan being included?! Is this accurate?
(No way to test now myself, too busy with other things)
Did not check but I guess he just doesn't like the Executive (http://us4.aminet.net/aminet/util/misc/Executive.readme) program. Nothing a simple change of startup can solve.
greets,
Staf.
Edit: SamuraiCrow beat me to it.
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Great news. Great work. Another knife in the chest of the amiga grave robbers!
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I have worked in the last months on a new distribution based on Aros 68k and added a new background pictures, icons, software, libraries and much more.
More info:
http://www.natami-news.de/html/aros_vision.html
I will also offer addon-packs:
CLI, Games and a special Grunch-database
Thank you to the tester.
It is planned to be integrated in Aros-distributions and will also be available as download.
Thank you very much! Exactly what was my expectation out of AROS 68k development - "building OS 3.9+" an updated 68k experience for e.g. Natami, FPGA Aracade AND all UAE users
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a late april joke...
it is this:
http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/Executive
TCS is only a "executive" hater. It is a entry in user-startup so simple to remove...
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I have explained to you that this Executive is a Trojan many times yet u continue to intentionally spread Trojans onto people's computers.
Yes I do hate Executive, as I hate ALL TROJANS.
STOP SPREADING TROJANS!
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It's a patch that is ill-advised for multitiasking on Amiga since it allows lower-priority tasks to be promoted to higher priority. That, in turn, allows things that should never be overruled by a lower-priority task to be overruled, etc. Calling it a trojan may be an exaggeration but either way, you should never run it.
No separation of kernel and userspace, then? Is this just a priority scheduler with a basic "aging" mechanism?
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I don't know. I've used Executive and never had issue with it.
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STOP SPREADING TROJANS!
Calling it a trojan, no matter how emphatically you do, does not make it a trojan. We all read your feelings about Executive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_(computing) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_horse_(computing))
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I Use Executive, and I never had any problems with it. Actually Commander have saved me some reboots.
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I was trying to give it a test downloading the boot and iso images, but i'm stuck somewhere... As you can see from the 2 attachments, the iso image actually "boots" from UAE, but comes to a menu and that's all. If i boot using the boot image, it does a reset, and comes to a prompt asking for the CD. Which no matter what i do does not seem to be recognized. It's not only an iso image, i actually burnt the cd to make sure.
Any ideas?
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You use the nightly build with WinUAE? You need boot and bootiso from the downloads. In "boot" you find a ADF and the Roms you need to boot, and the iso must be burnt to a CD (must be attached during boot). Then you can install it
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@OlafS3
Would I be able to install this on my new Turbo Chameleon 64 once I install a Minimig core?
This is very exciting indeed. I'm looking forward to seeing this on an Arcade Replay. Well done.
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You use the nightly build with WinUAE? You need boot and bootiso from the downloads. In "boot" you find a ADF and the Roms you need to boot, and the iso must be burnt to a CD (must be attached during boot). Then you can install it
Yes, that is correct. And yes, the CD was burnt as i mentioned. I'll give it a try asap. I've friends asking me if there's any special hardware requirements for the OS, and i dunno what to say.
Your configuration file shows you got fpu selected and rtg if i'm correct?
I'd appreciate the minimum hardware requirements for info's sake.
Thanks in advance!
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I have not much experience with real hardware (I have only A600). Someone installed a nightly build on A1200 with 030 and more RAM and it was not useable. It is not optimized for real hardware (as far as I know), you need fast processor (68060 recommended) and more RAM. And not every Turbocard is supported by Kickstart Replacement.
here is a thread on amigaworld regarding the topic:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=35052&forum=27&start=200&viewmode=flat&order=0
or post on aros-exec.org
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the preinstalled configuration of the nightly build is RTG. So would recommend to download it and change to PAL/NTSC. Hardware answer in my last post. i know that the Kickstart on real hardware must be "soft-kicked" (the kickstart replacement has 1 MB). As far as I can remember I use my distribution with/without FPU so I think that is not critical.
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Minimum is AGA, more RAM and at least 68040 (68030 is too slow, 68060 recommended)
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Is it available for download?
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my distro, not yet. I have sent it to the Aros distributions maintainer who look at it and integrate it in their distribution. Then I will publish it as a own download.
The nightly build... yes. My own distribution is also based on nightly builds and I will help to update it (I replaced icons and added software, libs... so no problem there). Testing the nightly build is a good starting point.
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Cannot wait to test it on real amiga
I'm afraid anyone trying this on real amiga will be disappointed. It's very slow, much much slower than the real AmigaOS. Even on WinUAE it is a drag. At several occasions you can see things crawl, even on fast PCs with JIT enabled. Also, AROS consumes much more memory than AmigaOS. (*)
I think this is a direct result from AROS being coded on überfast x86 systems. There hasn't been any reason to optimize things.
* This was some time ago, it might have gotten faster since.
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It's a patch that is ill-advised for multitiasking on Amiga since it allows lower-priority tasks to be promoted to higher priority. That, in turn, allows things that should never be overruled by a lower-priority task to be overruled, etc.
Any application depending on priorities like that is missing proper locking and is broken.
Executive is no way ill-advised for multitasking or malicious. In fact it's the opposite, Executive greatly improves over the rigid and ineffective default amiga multitasking.
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I have explained to you that this Executive is a Trojan many times yet u continue to intentionally spread Trojans onto people's computers.
By insisting that Executive is a Trojan, you are implicitly accusing it's author of writing malware and those providing it as distributing. That's a pretty serious accusation given one or both of these activities are considered illegal in many countries. As is slander/libel.
I used Executive on several amigas for years and it did nothing but improve the default experience.
So, either provide some solid evidence to substantiate your claim or retract it.
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I think that Aros 68k is slow is not true (anymore), at least when using it in WinUAE. I tested Hollywood 4.8 in it and as example the "aquarium"-demo was (almost) too fast. Wazp3D, what I use to integrate Warp3D is directly supporting underlying hardware.
What is true that it (or at least was) not optimized for classic hardware, so speed mainly depends on the processor (68060 recommended) and makes no use of Blitter...
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i dont know about olafs distribution but it cant be nuch slower than aros nightlies im regularly testing on my real amigas here.
the fact is that aros is slow on many operations, in particular wanderer is slow.
the loading of programs might in case of more complex software also cost more time initially while the execution is obviously as fast as ever especially when not much system calls are involved. what concerns gui/mui/zune it isnt exactly fast but about usable.
currently scalos is being integrated, which makes desktop quite much faster, functional and complete. also the bottlenecks will be eventually identified.
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i dont know about olafs distribution but it cant be nuch slower than aros nightlies im regularly testing on my real amigas here.
the fact is that aros is slow on many operations, in particular wanderer is slow.
the loading of programs might in case of more complex software also cost more time initially while the execution is obviously as fast as ever especially when not much system calls are involved. what concerns gui/mui/zune it isnt exactly fast but about usable.
currently scalos is being integrated, which makes desktop quite much faster, functional and complete. also the bottlenecks will be eventually identified.
I got the information that Scalos 68k now runs with newest nightly builds (I will test that asap). And it is not "slow". On WinUAE I tested Hollywood-Examples and they were very very fast.
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aros68k on winuae isnt slow at all of course. but it might be considerd that on real hardware, especially when using planar screens. on rtg it makes impression to be about as fast as original os i when it comes to gui operations, but im not much testing that at the moment. what concerns scalos it is close to run well, but still crashes in some situations. it is much faster than wanderer i have to report.
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aros68k on winuae isnt slow at all of course. but it might be considerd that on real hardware, especially when using planar screens. on rtg it makes impression to be about as fast as original os i when it comes to gui operations, but im not much testing that at the moment. what concerns scalos it is close to run well, but still crashes in some situations. it is much faster than wanderer i have to report.
Yeah it seems to be the AROS native graphics.library that is slower than AOS 3.x, which isn't surprising given AROS is really set up for RTG for obvious reasons.
Still, really great to see AROS on proper Amiga hardware though :)
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BUG: The archive contains the "Executive" Trojan which hacks into the OS and damages it causing various problems and lockups with multitasking programs.
Maybe executive should be optional. Its defentely not a trojan
Executive is fully compatible with all Amiga computers running AmigaOS
release 2.04 or newer.
Executive is the highest rated item of shareware CU Amiga magazine
has ever awarded at 98%. Executive V2.00 got 97% from the same
magazine, and it was ranked as "the best shareware utility ever."
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i wouldnt use executive on aros68k. does it even gives any measurable advantage there or is it supplied just "because we can"?
i would generally discourage using system patches at this point except they are really used on purpose, as apparently it is the case with muforce even though i have not tried it up till now.
aros should and will incorporate expected features itself beyond 3.x compatibility, and there is work done on that. it is important to concentrate on what is included in aros as this can be improved instead of using 3rd party closed source tools as this had to be done on 3.x.
for instance mattheys asm optimized memcopy functions have been committed by toni few days ago. as it is not a common knowledge, someone might get an idea to patch them with less effective ones expecting better performance than original 3.x ones. this is counterproductive.
aros is there exactly to make this wild system patching obsolete, and as happy i am about the likes of powerwindows on 3.x im much more happy thet i dont need them under aros.
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Yeah it seems to be the AROS native graphics.library that is slower than AOS 3.x, which isn't surprising given AROS is really set up for RTG for obvious reasons.
Yes, think the main slowness on classic amiga is that the graphics drivers for non-RTG are not optimized yet and in that case don't make optimal use of blitter etc.
greets,
Staf.
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i wouldnt use executive on aros68k. does it even gives any measurable advantage there or is it supplied just "because we can"?
It most certainly does.
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to be honest i dont even know what kind of scheduler aros is equipped with. if this is round robbin then executive could help to determine what the most efficient and most compatible apporoach be, and this coule be implemented at least as an option.
otherwise i think aros68k is still much too unstable to introduce further possible failure and incomtpatibility sources.
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Well, if it's rather slow on anything other than an 060, is it really worth it?
I mean ok, i do appreciate having an alternative and free AOS-compatible OS, but wouldn't it be far better to have support for at least a few of the stock Amiga models? True, an 060 is not as rare as a PPC board, but still we're talking about a very limited user-base. And was UAE actually the target of developing this stuff after all?
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Which version of the ROM is included with this distribution ?
It seems latest (april, 10th) version crashes when trying to boot from DOS floppies...
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Well, if it's rather slow on anything other than an 060, is it really worth it?
I mean ok, i do appreciate having an alternative and free AOS-compatible OS, but wouldn't it be far better to have support for at least a few of the stock Amiga models? True, an 060 is not as rare as a PPC board, but still we're talking about a very limited user-base. And was UAE actually the target of developing this stuff after all?
Aros68k schould Even Run in Stock 68000with some RAM (4mb i think). It is compiled with basic CPU options afair. It is slower than the original aos for various reasons, most of which can be taken care of i suppose. The envisioned audience is the whole 68k user base. Sorry it isnt done just in an instant. I would wish for that myself.
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It would be interesting to see if we could replace OS 3.9 in Amithlon with this and see how it runs, it would go a long way to making Amithlon more 'legal' per se.
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i have just take a short look at scalos under current aros68k nightly. its quite snappy on say 4 planes aga pal hires interlace even with backgrounds turned on. main problem is this case chipmem shortage to keep all the textures in. strangely on rtg (cv64) it is even much more laggy at present...
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Aros68k schould Even Run in Stock 68000with some RAM (4mb i think). It is compiled with basic CPU options afair. It is slower than the original aos for various reasons, most of which can be taken care of i suppose. The envisioned audience is the whole 68k user base. Sorry it isnt done just in an instant. I would wish for that myself.
I'm sorry if it sounded like i'm in a hurry or something; it's just that no one seems to talk much about hardware requirements, and i keep getting the impression that the low-spec machines were left out of the game. As i mentioned earlier, i do appreciate what's done. If the whole 68k user base is the target, then indeed it's the best news i can hear..
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i keep getting the impression that the low-spec machines were left out of the game.
no, its not the case. the whole work on aros and especially on 68k is done with widest possible target audience in mind. stand by. alas there is not enough devs involved to progress as fast as we would like it to be.
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short info... Scalos is not slow. Toni gave me the tip. You have to comment out "Assign Theme:..." and then it works (or "Themes"? But I think it was "Theme"). Before it was very slow in RTG and after normal speed.
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comment out "theme" assign in the s-s? that must be done anyway. or what do you mean?
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yes in startup-sequence. Before it was slow in RTG, after fast (normal speed). I have used latest nightly build yesterday.
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strange, it was slow for me with the backgrounds and stuff even though i always comment it out as of late. have you textures turned on? im leaving them currently at default for the purpose of testing.
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I do not know. It was the standard installation (a scenery in the background). I had not much time to test because I went to sleep (01.00 am). I test it in WinUAE.
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let me quote my post from awnet here:
just in case, a dumb video, a little boring and lengthy, but might give you an impression of current functionality and speed of aros and scalos on a genuine amiga. and also how you can let it crash quite easily. well, masybe not the whole system, but scalos at least.
http://youtu.be/Exbr4bmGjaY
and here the earlier version with the same machine hooked up to a 1084s, not much to see though, so you might want to skip it:
http://youtu.be/16Lsdv4HeHg
now, suffer.