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Author Topic: Barry Altman and Commodore USA  (Read 60454 times)

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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« on: June 03, 2011, 02:11:43 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;642060
Actually, dammy is right. I started the thread. And even though he and I would be at odds over some things (the president for instance), I think we both agree on one point. Barry Altman and C=USA ought to be given a chance before they are written off.


I agree.  However, his chance ended when he hijacked an existing brand, threatened people in the community, spread falsehoods, behaved like an arsehole, unleashed Spambots on us (Dammy) and has still failed to deliver a product.  He's had ample opportunity to undo the things he's done wrong and done nothing.  That really says it all.
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2011, 06:06:53 AM »
Quote from: Belial6;642107
@Darrin and Franko

The two of you are complaining about hijacking threads?  Really?  That is some pretty thick irony there.


Please show everyone where I complained about "hikacking threads".  Once you discover that you can't then do me a favour and learn to read.
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2011, 06:26:43 AM »
Quote from: Belial6;642110
Apparently I was wrong about that one.  You said Hijacking BRAND, not thread.  I read that wrong. My mistake.  Sorry.


That's OK.  ;)
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 03:48:20 PM »
Quote from: HenryCase;671546
When? I don't remember them promising anything with regards to AROS bounties. There were requests for them to support the community in this way (bet they wish they did now, doing so would probably have avoided most of this backlash), but no promises on their part, as far as I recall.


I was digging around yesterday looking for a quote from Spammy and there was one where Spammy stated that C-USA's intention was to develop hardware and software AND provide incentives for AROS.  To be fair, this was in their very early days when they probably hoped to use AROS on their C64x.  Shortly after they got into a pissing match over it and stated that AROS wasn't suitable (in other words, they couldn't get it for free or have people work on drivers for free).
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 03:50:38 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;671594
I am interested/curious to see the case.

Vic slim is pure uglyness, c64x has no PETSCII keyboard with almost vertically parallel keys and no 9-pin joystick port USB adapters but at least they made an effort with the look.

I suspect there will be a cheaper and better solution to C-USA c64x soon enough. Ditto a rival for C-USA Amiga which will not cost 1000s too.


I don't mind the VIC slim (I always liked those all-in-one designs).  However, as you say, how can you use a C64x as a C64 without the symbols on the keys?  This is why my Chameleon64 is plugged into a real C64C.  :)
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 05:17:51 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;671608
That's fair enough about the VIC Slim, personal taste and all that, but not aesthetically related to a VIC20 but clearly the c64x is and they're the same design. Why didn't they just do a white c64x case for VIC20x and a black one for c16x?

This also makes me wonder about their Amiga case designs chosen.

Only mildly curious, will not purchase anything.


Although the "breadbox" design is iconic, from a practical point of view the C64C is a hell of a lot nicer to use.

As for their "Amiga" designs.  The last "real" cases they showed belonged to some company producing Home Entertainment type PCs.  In the end, they'll just pick any third party company that can supply them cheap "old desktop" type cases in quantity and at the right price.  Add a C-USA sticker, slap "Amiga" on the case and install Linux.  Job done and community successfully pissed off again.

Anyone can do that now by purchasing one of these and adding their own stickers:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6470748&CatId=5139
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2011, 06:43:31 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;671730
Dunno why C-USA don't do a PET remake, specially the Super PET.


Because nobody else makes one for them to be able to order some, tripple the price and slap a C= sticker on them  :D
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 05:25:13 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;681108
Actually, that's not fair.
I talked to Barry when he was still considering AROS and he asked me what I thought.
I (and others) told him it wasn't complete and stable enough.


I can't believe this old thread was dug up (That comment was made in Decemeber).

My point (back then) was that AROS needed funding, but unlike other people who paid for drivers, Barry wasn't going to spend a single penny.  Of course AROS needs work to go mainstream, but CUSA were not prepared to pay for it.  I guess an existing Linux distro with some icons and wallpaper added is the next cheapest alternative.

In fairness, I will add that if I was in Barry's shoes and I was selling a computer with an OS to the mass market, then I would want either a "market ready" OS installed or to be in complete control of whatever alternative custom OS I was going to use.  To market an incomplete system and then have the people you were depending on for further development decide to give up or become uncooperative.  Personally, I'm wondering legally where he stands on providing (or rather not providing) Linux (sorry, COS) support.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 05:39:27 PM by Darrin »
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 08:25:55 PM »
Quote from: CritAnime;681134
more on their stance with aros might be in this thread (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/12492-join-the-forces#12534) but I really can't be bothered to drag myself through all the balls in the thread.


Interesting remark in that link that seems to confirm what I suspected all along:

Quote
There are restrictions on what you are able to do as an official Commodore dealer as you would be, in effect, representing the company.
 There is nothing stopping anyone from buying barebones systems right now and selling systems as a non-official Commodore dealer of course.
 Official dealers get discounts, but there are minimum order requirements and various hardware and software standard requirements as well as various responsibilities.


It seems to me the business plan is to have lots of people use their saving to set themselves up as "official Commodore dealers", spend THEIR money to order stock, C-USA then buys units for the actual manufactures to manufactuers at a huge discount to what the "official dealers" will pay with no risk involved, slap a C= sticker on them, ship them to the dealers and then sit back and watch while the official dealers struggle to sell their already overpriced stock at an even higher price.

This would explain why C-USA are so militant against any negative posts as the last thing they want are potential investors Googling their past antics.  It also explains the massive hype.  Nobody is going to be keen on investing in a company run from a tiny Mall shop in Florida.  You need to make bold claims about being partners with Disney, owning your own OS, having massive factories in China and hundreds of thousands of waiting customers eager to part with huge sums of cash.

It's a brilliant plan, but not exactly original.  Other companies do it with womens' makeup, health food and other assorted tat every day.
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 09:06:14 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;681139
You know, that would explain a lot. Fat chance of it actually going anywhere, though.


It doesn't need to go anywhere in the long run, just in the short run because the LLC can fold up and then the people behind it just start up another business.  Meanwhile, the people operating the actual dealerships are left with the expensive equipment and the financial woes.

Mind you, some do work.  It is no different to selling Tupperware, Avon or Mary Kay.  As long as there are people willing to invest some money then the business will continue.  The lure of becomming your own boss and "making millions working from home" is quite powerful and there are lots of people offering to help you achieve this as seen by the constant TV ads, magazine ads and even posters nailed to telegraph poles all over the USA.

Can I interest you in some osterich eggs?  ;)

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Telemarketing/Outbound/Major/Investments/wacky.htm
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 12:00:23 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;681146
Oh, I don't mean the model is flawed, just that I simply can't see anybody even bothering to sign up for such a thing in CUSA's case...


#1:  Dammy
#2:  Ben
#3....

OK, you have a point.  ;)

That said, imagine you know nothing about C=USA's past antics and you receive this sales pitch:

"Hi, I'm the CEO of Commodore USA and I have a unique business plan for select people like you which is guaranteed to make you rich!  Interested?  You bet you are, and together we are going to make more money than you imagined.  Do you know what was the biggest selling personal computer in the world?  The Commodore 64!  It sold millions all over the world and hardware and software is still being produced for it today.  Well, we're back.  We've already launched a brand new model called the C64x with our partners Disney and sold out in just a few months.  Demand exceeded my wildest expectation so much that I had to put back plans to supply a major high street retail chain with hundreds of thousands of units!  So, you must be asking yourself "How does this affect me?".  Well, I've had a major rethink based on the success so far.  Why should we give these computers to a major retailer who avoids taxes, pays their staff minimum wage and who has no enthusiasm for the product?  Why don't I just harness the energy of a select few.  A select and highly motivated bunch of people like yourselves who are willing to work hard and achieve the American Dream!  Who here wants to be rich?  Show me your hands, who wants to be rich?  Yeah, we all do and together we're going to be.  Rich and successful!  You see, together as a team we can have a combined buying power as great as HP or Dell which lowers the purchasing cost of components.  Using my extensive network of contacts and factories in China and my established transportation network we could buy $1000 state-of-the-art machines and sell them easily for $2000 or more!  Yes, that's right, you can double your money instantly and then keep on doubling it!  I produce the computers and have them shipped to the USA where they are configured for the customer.  You gentlemen pay a small fee to become an elite Commodore authorised Dealer and then purchase a minimum stock from me each month or quarter in order to meet your demand.  I ship the units directly to you.  You sell them and you can make thousands of dollars each month!  Imagine you invest $5,000 to buy 5 machines.  You sell them for $10,000 and you have made a profit of $5000 for that month!  Now imagine you reinvest all of that $10,000 and buy 10 machines the next month and sell them for $20,000, you've made $15,000 in just two months!  Now do it again for the next month and then the next month... do you know how much you could make in 1 year?  Do you?  I'll tell you... over 20 MILLION DOLLARS!  20 MILLION!  Not bad for a $5000 investment, eh?  Imagine investing $10,000!  Anyone here making $20,000,000 a year?  No?  Anyone here want to make $20,000,000 a year?  Yeah, I thought so.  OK, who is ready to sign up?"



Honestly though, if Barry had actually come across a a nice, honest, reliable guy with a solid business plan, good PR and a reasonable product line then I might have been interested in selling Commodore PCs.  I used to have a computer/electronics sales business for a few years with physical shop in the center of town which I ran more as a hobby because my main line of work brings in a stead stream of cash.

I wouldn't touch this business venture however with a barge pole.  Niche systems, overpriced, lacking a market, horrible PR and no support.  I'd be better off sourcing my own parts and making my own line of hand-built machines.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 12:56:40 AM by Darrin »
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