Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: redrumloa on June 19, 2010, 05:18:26 PM
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http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31869&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#566044
Just back from the fair.
To the others that attended - was it me or was the whole announcement thing badly organised? You could hardly hear the bloke from A-eon and couldn't see him either unless you were crammed at the front. At the very least he should have had a mic on, and/or had everyone stand in a horseshoe shape so more people could see him.
In terms of info, the price will be "north of £1,500" and they couldn't/wouldn't tell us the make of the CPU. They said it was likely the machine would be on sale before Xmas.
Here is the current exchange rate.
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter/#from=GBP;to=USD;amt=1500
So we know the X1000, presumably a whole system, will be more than $2,225. When the first X1000 announcements were made many people guessed it would be $3,000 or more. Since then the USD has strengthened vs the GBP, otherwise this would have been close to that $3,000 mark...
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Yeah, was following events on a few of our sister sites myself. That's certainly a fair old wedge, even for a complete system.
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Hmmm Xmas is some time away... Another year passes. 2007 technology in 2011 is gonna look pretty dated. Could it be we are waiting for everyday technology to beat in into insignificance. Or is it that no-one has yet found a use for the "harpo" chip. I wonder if somone can program it to speak Whale... I used to be excited now I'm getting disapointed.......
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"presumably a whole system, will be more than $2,225"
Begs the question what constitutes a whole system? In A1000 days, that would mean:
* A1000 (Keyboard and mouse)
* A 1084.
* Operating system
I don't think you will get a monitor in this new system. But I could be wrong. And I am a little taken back at the cost. Still interested. But after reading above thread and threads here; I do finally understand what 'troll' means. It's apparently any one who proceeds in conversation with reason and critical thinking about 'new generation' Amiga offerings. You're deemed negative, a troll, a Debbie the downer. I get it. Or someone who is just nuttier than Chinese chicken salad.
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Quite pricy, I hope the chassi will be custom made tho :)
Let's see what the future brings, I might pick one up when all OS4 issues and drivers are working nice on it :)
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In which factory (which country) will it be manufactured? Is that info available?
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OK, so the keyboard is made in China. Foxconn?
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£1500+ ... um.. haha ? um... I guess I wish them luck selling 20 boards... but not to me...
Tom UK
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Oh. Another deadline, insane price, information still withheld.
This is much worse than even I imagined.
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Wonder why you post the price in US$ when it was given in Sterling, not all of us are Americans here, in this country we use Australian dollars, you don't see me converting all prices to AU$, do you. The price is north of 1500 quid, what the street price is in New York, Brisbane or Timbuktu is not known...
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Does that price include VAT?
Does that price include dealers cut or is that the price they'll be selling to the dealers?
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Does that price include VAT?
Does that price include dealers cut or is that the price they'll be selling to the dealers?
Frankly if it was 5000 dollars, some of you will pay. Some people are stupid enough to spend 60k dollars on a pair of speakers.
<2000 quid is a snip.
Shall I trade in my Capri :)
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Oh well, either they have taken a leaf out of Apple's ridiculous pricing or this is a scam involving their inevitable bankruptcy lol. Do they regularly enact the mad hatter's tea party at corporate lunch???
They can quote the 1985 launch of the A1000 as much as they like but the truth is at the launch of the A1000 Apple cost 200% more and didn't even have colour. A useless pile of junk with a stolen [from Xerox IP] OS. And DOS...CGA doorstops only useful as chocs to park up passenger jets in my opinion again costing much more. In fact the only competition Amiga ever had was the 1985 ST with a price 40% lower and some of the features. And to top it all off A1000 did things no other computer money could buy, like play Fairlight sound samples or do 25FPS colour animations or even display 4000+ colours in 50% broadcast quality in a world where 16 on screen @ 320x200 was considered high end, and all in a beautiful multitasking kernal under a GUI.
Truth is x1000 is costing more than anything else and it doesn't have an advantage, no CPU advantage or GPU advantage or anything different that the OS has as a unique point. It's an also ran priced at the cost of TWO home built i7 super computers.
Such a shame as there really are alternatives that could work that require minimal re-coding of OS4 at 1/2 the price of top end Macs/PCs.....this isn't one of those technical solutions ;)
*zips up flame proof jacket nice and tight*
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Frankly if it was 5000 dollars, some of you will pay. Some people are stupid enough to spend 60k dollars on a pair of speakers.
<2000 quid is a snip.
Shall I trade in my Capri :)
That's crazy.. Unless...
Did they use Monster Cables? Those are worth the $2000 right there!!!
Monster Cables for my X1000!! Yeay!!!
:roflmao:
Ok, that's too much for me, but I'm not the target audience...
Also, I doubt it's worse for Piru than he initially thought.. ;-)
But I do agree.. There are people who spend well over a thousand USD on a decked out SAM Amiga system, so I'd think they might be interested in this at twice the price. It wasn't that long ago that people routinely spent that much on a computer.
And, this is also aimed at the "early adopter" market. Those people will pay almost anything.. :hammer:
However, to be successful, you need enough of these "early adopters" so a second run might be cost effective. With the competition on the low end (real old Amigas and minimigs, etc), I don't see them competing there.
OR.. You need enough of these early adopters/hardcore fans with disposable income and you keep the price high...
I don't see either happening..
Then again, I didn't think people would pay for shareware in the stores and know someone who made a lot of money doing that.. So, who knows..
desiv
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At least it is not summer yet in the southern hemisphere.
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Wonder why you post the price in US$ when it was given in Sterling, not all of us are Americans here, in this country we use Australian dollars, you don't see me converting all prices to AU$, do you. The price is north of 1500 quid, what the street price is in New York, Brisbane or Timbuktu is not known...
I am from the US and a large number of members here are from the US. It was announced in British Pounds and can be converted to any currency you wish.
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter/#from=USD;to=EUR;amt=1
The original Amiga 1000 was launched in the USA and the comparison has been made all along of the X1000 to Amiga 1000 pricing.
BTW, since you asked it is approximately 2,550AUD.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=565671
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Most of the people who submit negative posts about the X1000's specs or pricing or design etc are the same people who from the very beginning made it quite clear that they didn't want one. Either because they're more interested in MOS systems or AROS systems or just generally not interested at all.
That much I can understand. Everyone has different tastes and/or personal circumstances. But, given that these people have long since decided that they aren't interested in the X1000, why do they care how "bad" the pricing is or how "poor" the spec is? You don't want to buy one. So.... it's not going to affect you is it.
There's only one remaining reason why such people would want to complain about every aspect of the product, and that's because they're trolls and have nothing better to do with their lives than pour scorn on other people's interests. Bizarre if you ask me. But there you go, that's the world we live in.
Of course, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I have an opinion on Apple products, which is that I despise them (even though I own an iPhone :confused:). That's an opinion I'm very much entitled to, and I even voice it every now and then. But I probably wouldn't make it my business to constantly pour scorn on the new iPad or the iPhone G4 or whatever new Apple product comes along, because the fact is I don't want to buy one so I don't care how crap they are or over-priced they are or how locked in they are or whatever. If someone else likes Apple stuff, I'm happy to just let them get on with it and enjoy it.
AH.
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Oouch... it is difficult to view the positive sides but at least they demoed the motherboard and it is not vapourware.
Quoting Piru, yeah, that price is INSANE.
Sorry Trevor if you read this, you seem like a nice guy with the right Amiga spirit (something I think leaders of the OS that is known as the OS built from the one and only Workbench source should have) and I dont want to insult or piss on your companies progress because you have invested time and money into this but I can not resist thinking logically and ventilating my view here.
Maybe we do not know the real potential just yet? Ok, I give it 6 more months before I make a judgement.
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It is pricey but I think the biggest problem with it is that big box PCs/Amigas look bulky... even at the work we are losing our last tower PCs soon. It probably would sell better if it was very tiny, less features, but still the same price tag...
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It is pricey but I think the biggest problem with it is that big box PCs/Amigas look bulky... even at the work we are losing our last tower PCs soon. It probably would sell better if it was very tiny, less features, but still the same price tag...
My PC is truly massive :lol:
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"North of 1500" GBP? I'll stick to my original guess of 200-350 units sold in the first 12 months, including the 100 Dev boards. ACube's 460 looks mighty cheap compared to the A1X1K.
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These aeon guys are crazy comparing the a1000 with this experiment to pump money from the users.
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"presumably a whole system, will be more than $2,225"
Begs the question what constitutes a whole system? In A1000 days, that would mean:
* A1000 (Keyboard and mouse)
* A 1084.
* Operating system
I don't think you will get a monitor in this new system. But I could be wrong. And I am a little taken back at the cost. Still interested. But after reading above thread and threads here; I do finally understand what 'troll' means. It's apparently any one who proceeds in conversation with reason and critical thinking about 'new generation' Amiga offerings. You're deemed negative, a troll, a Debbie the downer. I get it. Or someone who is just nuttier than Chinese chicken salad.
I would guess in this case it would mean x1000 case, fully populated mobo, gfx card, memory, sound, OS4.x and the keyboard.
And nope.. I dont think you qualify as a troll for being skeptical about price tag or coming with constructive criticism.
I myself have doubts about this project as well and think the price is too steep for what you get. I hope at the same time they do succeed even though i have my doubts.
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These aeon guys are crazy comparing the a1000 with this experiment to pump money from the users.
Pumping money? Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce such hardware on such small scale?? I highly doubt there is much profits to be made here at all.
The people who are investing in this project are risking a whole lot on the success of this project.
I think it is childish to call this a money pumping scheme.
Do you seriously think they are doing this just to take advantage out of potential customers?
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Yes, now aeon is a bunch of a non profit guys giving new hardware to the amiga community, just for arround 2000 eur, yeah a bargain!
Pruduce any kind of hardware have their cost, yes, but still overpriced.
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"North of 1500" GBP? I'll stick to my original guess of 200-350 units sold in the first 12 months, including the 100 Dev boards. ACube's 460 looks mighty cheap compared to the A1X1K.
1500+ GBP is rather more than I could reasonably justify for a hobby system. Of course, the thing with justification is that it's sometimes easier not to bother. After all, if I think how much I've spent on computer kit over the years...
Still, I guess it's not bad news for ACube.
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OUCH - Insane price, and the A1000 comparisons are pointless to me. Was mildly interested in these, but not at that price. Might have more interest in it if just the motherboards are ever available (at a reasonable price). At near $2300 in my currency for a hobby system, nah, lol. I had a difficult enough time justifying the expense of my SAM.
Good news for Acube anyways.
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Yes, now aeon is a bunch of a non profit guys giving new hardware to the amiga community, just for arround 2000 eur, yeah a bargain!
Pruduce any kind of hardware have their cost, yes, but still overpriced.
Nobody is saying anything about non profit. Thats a strawman.
Economy of scale is very much the case for computer parts. Does that mean this particular price is correct? No idea, but there are middle ground other than "GIVING AWAY FOR FREE" and "OMGWTFBBQ"
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I remember when Gateway 2k said they were dropping AmigaOS and going Linux. That was the worst news. Then they decided to spring a grand total of $30,000 dollars to update the OS. Considering BE inc was in the red for 1 billion it was not much of an investment.
Anyway, I can't help but wonder how fast UAE would be on a 6 core rig. If 5 people use their X1000 money for a multicore UAE bounty thats over 10k. Seems like a better use of the money.
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@ElPolloDiabl
What else does UAE need feature wise?
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Anyway, I can't help but wonder how fast UAE would be on a 6 core rig. If 5 people use their X1000 money for a multicore UAE bounty thats over 10k. Seems like a better use of the money.
I don't think that would work with the latency issues between the cores. Atleast that is the reason I'm hearing the maintainer for WinUAE won't consider doing the project. YMMV
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@ElPolloDiabl
What else does UAE need feature wise?
Speaking as an end user, I'd say better documentation (e-uae variants, linux, et al). Easier setting of screen refresh rates (too many "mode not supported" when going fullscreen). I'd like to see one product across all platforms (ie winUAE for all, under one banner).
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Pumping money? Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce such hardware on such small scale??
It doesn't cost anywhere near what they are charging.
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Frankly if it was 5000 dollars, some of you will pay. Some people are stupid enough to spend 60k dollars on a pair of speakers.
<2000 quid is a snip.
Shall I trade in my Capri :)
Absolutely not!
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That's crazy.. Unless...
Did they use Monster Cables? Those are worth the $2000 right there!!!
Monster Cables for my X1000!! Yeay!!!
:roflmao:
Ok, that's too much for me, but I'm not the target audience...
Also, I doubt it's worse for Piru than he initially thought.. ;-)
But I do agree.. There are people who spend well over a thousand USD on a decked out SAM Amiga system, so I'd think they might be interested in this at twice the price. It wasn't that long ago that people routinely spent that much on a computer.
And, this is also aimed at the "early adopter" market. Those people will pay almost anything.. :hammer:
However, to be successful, you need enough of these "early adopters" so a second run might be cost effective. With the competition on the low end (real old Amigas and minimigs, etc), I don't see them competing there.
OR.. You need enough of these early adopters/hardcore fans with disposable income and you keep the price high...
I don't see either happening..
Then again, I didn't think people would pay for shareware in the stores and know someone who made a lot of money doing that.. So, who knows..
desiv
who is the target audience?
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Homeless Vets and Amputees. There's a small following the midget circle, but their primary focus is on the before mentioned demographic.
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Personally i don't plan to buy the X1000. I think that my μΑ1 and PPC A1200 suit my amiga needs for now BUT guys i don't think that being ironic towards AEON is right. They do what they think right, they promised new hardware and it seems that they are gonna make it until the end. Producing a complete amiga system nowadays seems like an insane decision from a business point of view. It couldn't cost less i'm afraid so why don't we wait until the complete system is finally for sale and see what we'll get and for how much. It won't be cheap, sure, but how could it be? A more compact system would be nice but i insist that even the X1000 as is, will be a rather good start for new systems to come for all the tastes and potentially for different price range.
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Pumping money? Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce such hardware on such small scale?? I highly doubt there is much profits to be made here at all.
Well, the fact it's a tiny scale and they won't probably make any profit at all doesn't change the fact they will be pumping money from the users. On the 2010 (and probably 2011) 2500$ for that type of computer means pumping money... The targeted people only means that someone may buy it (no one outside Amiga enthousiasts would buy it), not that the price becomes acceptable.
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hate to say it, but even at 300 dollars, the only people who would buy it would be amiga enthusiasts anyways.
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Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce such hardware on such small scale?
Insane amounts of money. Funnily when this was brought up before there were some people who wouldn't hear any of it.
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Anyway, I can't help but wonder how fast UAE would be on a 6 core rig. If 5 people use their X1000 money for a multicore UAE bounty thats over 10k. Seems like a better use of the money.
Well I've got a Core I7 975 @ 3,6GHz and near it's max it runs quite fast yeah.
However because I still have stock cooler I can't push it to the max, I'm already @ 75c degrees when running heavy.
Also my stock 6mb Kingston memory is a limiting factor here, time for upgrades, but I'm spending it all on Amiga's :laughing:
Up today is a mint A4000, fully repaired simm bank, new caps etc for 300 euro.
I would rather have that over X1000 price tag :hammer:
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Pumping money? Do you have any idea how much it costs to produce such hardware on such small scale??
Not even close to this much, at least not if you calculate to sell more boards than a hundred or two.
Sure, they will need some cash to get going, but that's covered by the pre-payment scheme.
I highly doubt there is much profits to be made here at all.
At this price level, for this kind of hardware, they are surely making a good profit per board...
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Much ado about "NOTHING" (really), that quoted price is from user Tommo1975 and on the same thread there is user djRikki (later on) that says he heard less than 1500 eur but that the price is subject to change.
Which basically means they are responding with a little confusion.
But I'll give you another piece too: Balmer used to state things that were later corrected and in fact today (this morning actually) Hyperion MP at AW wrote:
Quote:
Pricing is very indicative yet at this stage and certainly not set in stone. We still need to go through the exercise of cost shaving. We certainly expect to realize some savings on peripherals and some components. Because of the very volatile currency markets, it is very hard to nail this down now.
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http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31869&forum=33&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#566044
Here is the current exchange rate.
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter/#from=GBP;to=USD;amt=1500
So we know the X1000, presumably a whole system, will be more than $2,225. When the first X1000 announcements were made many people guessed it would be $3,000 or more. Since then the USD has strengthened vs the GBP, otherwise this would have been close to that $3,000 mark...
Nice the see the rumour mill in full motion. Lets all wait an see.
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Nice the see the rumour mill in full motion. Lets all wait an see.
You mean like to have A-EON publish on their webs site a clarification? Or even have Trevor post on here a clarification of what he said? I'm sure he could spare a minute and do it on his cellphone if he wasn't near a laptop and hotspot.
This is clearly a PR disaster. If the "North of 1500" was indeed correct, then I expect we are not going to hear from Trevor or A-EON. If less then 1500 is correct, why aren't they on here stating such? I think their lack of input is very telling, don't you?
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hate to say it, but even at 300 dollars, the only people who would buy it would be amiga enthusiasts anyways.
For $300, that would generate sales from the outside wanting to see what it was all about or outsiders wanting to run their preferred OS on it. For "North of 1500" GBP, you will get few to none.
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@dammy
Hyperionmp quote at (my) post 42 is what they clarified this morning.
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@dammy
Hyperionmp quote at (my) post 42 is what they clarified this morning.
And he (Ben?) did not bother to confirm or deny that "North of 1500" remark. To me, a lawyer refusing to refute a statement can only mean one thing, it was stated correctly.
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Given the cost involved in designing and producing a new hardware platform and the need to make some profit out of it (if there is to be any continuation of the effort), I can believe the 1500+ mark. Especially also given the comparatively small production run sizes. Trevor's own words were to the effect of "I can't see it costing less than that".
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@Karlos
sounds reasonable, but what if a better deal comes up and they save some money? Trevor couldn't know that yesterday right? and then the other statement I posted was made afterward, in any case, I believe they WILL try to shave it as much as they can, but to really know we can only wait and see as the only official reply (not "estimate" those can change with new deals) was "I DON'T KNOW"
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@Karlos
sounds reasonable, but what if a better deal comes up and they save some money? Trevor couldn't know that yesterday right? and then the other statement I posted was made afterward, in any case, I believe they WILL try to shave it as much as they can, but to really know we can only wait and see as the only official reply (not "estimate" those can change with new deals) was "I DON'T KNOW"
Back in the days, Commodore shaved some parts of the Amigas in order to save production costs. They removed the MIDI, so the Atari ST had a chance and established there. They removed the color modulator in the Amiga 500, so people were forced to buy RF modulators, which were unstable and broke a lot. I hope they don't save too much money on good parts of the X1000.
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@drHirudo
I didn't mean that, they can save on bulk orders of several other parts, even Verisys might get better deals for certain mobo parts, anyway, we know they'll look into it...
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@Karlos
sounds reasonable, but what if a better deal comes up and they save some money? Trevor couldn't know that yesterday right? and then the other statement I posted was made afterward, in any case, I believe they WILL try to shave it as much as they can, but to really know we can only wait and see as the only official reply (not "estimate" those can change with new deals) was "I DON'T KNOW"
I don't want to sound like I'm peeing on your cornflakes but there are a lot of "what if's" here. At best, perhaps the 1500 figure was his best guess. It would be nice to think that the X1000 will be available for less than 1500 when released but I wouldn't advise people pin their hopes on it.
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Given the cost involved in designing and producing a new hardware platform and the need to make some profit out of it (if there is to be any continuation of the effort), I can believe the 1500+ mark. Especially also given the comparatively small production run sizes. Trevor's own words were to the effect of "I can't see it costing less than that".
I can see making a few bucks off @ system to repay R&D/T&E costs. Unless this SoC CPU is costing them in greater then 1000 GBP @ unit, 1500 GBP is just excessive IMO.
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I don't want to sound like I'm peeing on your cornflakes but there are a lot of "what if's" here. At best, perhaps the 1500 figure was his best guess. It would be nice to think that the X1000 will be available for less than 1500 when released but I wouldn't advise people pin their hopes on it.
the "what ifs" (for how minor they might be) were introduced by Hyperionmp statement made this morning, and I think the now classic 1500 stance is what to expect, but alas we cannot argue on the "wait and see" situation.
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It was interesting to hear them mention they wanted to maintain profit for down the track. When Microsoft entered the console arena they intended on losing money on round one. This helped sell units and line them up for round two which they have executed extremely well.
Obviously, this is a very different market though for this to make round two, they wouldn't want to set the price too high.
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Let's say the X1000 hits the street at 1,500. Certainly pricey but I will gladly sell my µA1 to get into the market. I am sure other A1 XE, SE and µA1 will do the same. What do used A1s go for these days?
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Obviously, this is a very different market though for this to make round two, they wouldn't want to set the price too high.
Well, to be fair, all major console manufacturers have followed that route, recouping the cost in software sales. Furthermore, Microsoft can afford to make a loss on hardware, given the vast amounts of wealth they have at their disposal.
I really don't think it's a reasonable comparison here. Unless Trevor is a massively minted eccentric, I just don't see that model working here.
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Let's say the X1000 hits the street at 1,500. Certainly pricey but I will gladly sell my µA1 to get into the market. I am sure other A1 XE, SE and µA1 will do the same. What do used A1s go for these days?
That depends. If you had the choice of a second hand A1 or a new Sam, which would you pick? The new 460 board doesn't look half bad.
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Well, to be fair, all major console manufacturers have followed that route, recouping the cost in software sales. Furthermore, Microsoft can afford to make a loss on hardware, given the vast amounts of wealth they have at their disposal.
I really don't think it's a reasonable comparison here. Unless Trevor is a massively minted eccentric, I just don't see that model working here.
Fair call.
One model that has worked well is having one place to shop for all of one company's products along with other avenues. Dell, Apple for example. One marketing strategy for the whole range. From entry level, intermediate to professional. Take Apple, for example, Mac Mini, iMac, Mac Pro.
I manage a music instrument retail store and we have that philosophy across our range. "First guitar", next guitar, professional and so on through all product categories.
Currently, Amiga products are sourced from all over the place, even new products - unless I am missing something. Where is the Amiga store? A-eon produce one new model and create a whole company/site for it. I don't get that. Then again, I am not running any companies hehe
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With the cost of this new albeit SLOW by todays stanards Amiga. I just can't justify it.
For that cost I can configure a Tricked out QUAD boot PC (MacOs, Linux, Win 7, XP) and have money left ovr for a decent entry level laptop and run Amiga software on that faster than I could with the X1000.
Good luck to them though. I guess the market for this machine is crazy Amiga fanatic that will spend beyond top dollar for old tech.
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Horrible, horrible mistake if they are only offering this as an assembled system in the long run. I venture to say a good deal of the prospective buyers - old timer Amiga guys - are more than willing and skilled enough in the hardware department to assemble their own computer from components.
For people willing to build their own rigs, having a pre-built (and overpriced) system with what may be viewed as an (IMHO) ugly case/keyboard/mouse is a big turn off. I would not have bought my SAM if it was only available in pre-built/complete PC form. It's a hobbyist system, and hobbyist system users like things their way.
Best of luck to them, I suppose - but I think it's safe to say if the new SAM board is fairly priced, it will sell like hotcakes compared to this.
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It doesn't cost anywhere near what they are charging.
To be fair, we don't know the R&D cost. It would appear this is not a reference board with a boing sticker slapped on it (see the Eyetech boards). A good portion of the price is not just hardware itself, but R&D.
I don't know what A-Eon's business plan is or their projected sales, but unless I am missing something I think they are in for a rude surprise about how many systems they can sell at this pricing. Don't get me wrong, Trevor seems like a nice guy and I genuinely wish him well.
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Well, to be fair, all major console manufacturers have followed that route, recouping the cost in software sales. Furthermore, Microsoft can afford to make a loss on hardware, given the vast amounts of wealth they have at their disposal.
I really don't think it's a reasonable comparison here. Unless Trevor is a massively minted eccentric, I just don't see that model working here.
For a tiny start up business like A-EON, it's about cash flow. I'm sure the 75K EURO deposit from the pre sales of the 100 Dev boards will help in their cash flow. Even more so if there is indeed more EUROs required on top of the deposit.
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For people willing to build their own rigs, having a pre-built (and overpriced) system with what may be viewed as an (IMHO) ugly case/keyboard/mouse is a big turn off.
You're not alone in this assessment. The keyboard is just horrible:
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8951/keyb.jpg)
It looks like the cheapest and flimsiest 50 cent chinese keyboard you can find, with plastic stickers/decals to re-brand it amiga.
Eow.
Oh and the price? 24€ / 27 USD / £20. Wo-ah, that's a nice markup for such a cheapo keyboard.
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What was also interesting was he mentioned when explaining the price was that things produced in the East would be far cheaper. This keyboard doesn't particularly look like it was manufactured even remotely close to the west.
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Yep a sticker is friggin cheap... NewTek uses OEM PC's made in China for the Tricaster line. At least they have the class to pad print (silkscreen) the NewTek logo directly onto the mouse and the Keyboard that comes with the system. The cost of pad printing is like at MOST is like 50 cents pwe unit. If they're getting ripped off then a $1.00 per unit. At the cost of the machine they can easily absorb that. Ugghhh....
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I don't know what A-Eon's business plan is or their projected sales, but unless I am missing something I think they are in for a rude surprise about how many systems they can sell at this pricing. Don't get me wrong, Trevor seems like a nice guy and I genuinely wish him well.
I completely agree. Everything I've read from or about Trevor, he seems like a really good guy. I think what he missed from history was that C= made their money selling cheap stuff (C64, Vic20, Amiga 500/1200), not the big box items. What sunk C= was they were unable to compete in the big box (486) market and were stuck with unsold inventory of slower 486s. Bang:buck ratio sucked.
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@Piru
Boing Ball (NOT a sticker)-------------------------------AmigaONE logo is well done too
(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/amigaone-keys-3.jpg) ________________ (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/amigaone-keys-4.jpg)
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@DAX
Big mistake have an alien boing ball mark there. Real Amiga keyboards had an italic "A" and/or C=. And it is not even Amiga branded but some obscure AmigaOne brand.
If they made proper Amiga keyboards I would happily by one for my Mac.
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Horrible, horrible mistake if they are only offering this as an assembled system in the long run. I venture to say a good deal of the prospective buyers - old timer Amiga guys - are more than willing and skilled enough in the hardware department to assemble their own computer from components.
For people willing to build their own rigs, having a pre-built (and overpriced) system with what may be viewed as an (IMHO) ugly case/keyboard/mouse is a big turn off. I would not have bought my SAM if it was only available in pre-built/complete PC form. It's a hobbyist system, and hobbyist system users like things their way.
Best of luck to them, I suppose - but I think it's safe to say if the new SAM board is fairly priced, it will sell like hotcakes compared to this.
Yep, I only want the board with processor and memory, I will add my own case, keyboard, harddrive and everything I would want on it.
But even memory I could add myself when I know what it is.
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@ DAX
Based on those pictures, the BoingBall(tm) and Amiga logos clearly look like "domed stickers" to me. Notice the small reflection/highlight in the lower part of the ball.
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@Piru
Boing Ball (NOT a sticker)-------------------------------AmigaONE logo is well done too
(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/amigaone-keys-3.jpg) ________________ (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/amigaone-keys-4.jpg)
The keyboard is a flimsy looking el cheapo one. The "amigaone" decal looks like some rubbery thing that has adhesive for attaching. Many companies use these to "brand" their products, such as no-name chinese laptops. It looks cheesy.
The "boing" keys look out of place. What happened to the amiga A mark anyway?
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Oh. Another deadline, insane price, information still withheld.
This is much worse than even I imagined.
REALLY? wow this is quite shocking coming from someone that always speaks so positively about AmigaOS :roflmao::rolleyes:
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My first 486 cost £1500, it was an IBM Blue Lightning and it ran Doom like s*** off a shovel. Fast! Having said that, all PCs cost silly cash back then. I got an Amiga1200 the same year for £350 and both of them claimed an equal amount of my time. I enjoyed them both and I still have the A1200. Back then however was a very different time.
Roll on to 2010 and we see the Acer Aspire Revo R3600 at £215. A very nice Atom/NVidia combo for the money. We also have a credit crunch sqeezing our wallets.
Given the above I just can't justify £1500. IMHO I would rather have seen Hyperion putting cash into Pegasos and maybe getting a PEG III to market. I know that's not going to happen but I wish it would.
The SAM systems look far better value and the Natami still has my interest. Morph OS is also looking stronger now and with EMac support, well let's face it, a SAM and an EMac added together cost less than £1500.
I also think that maybe Hyperion missed the boat with the rise of the slate. A SAM plus touchscreen could have been worthwhile if done right (with flash and Photogenics for a start). As for the keyboard, yuck! The A4000 keyboard was pure elegance and still shines in my eyes. This X1000 thing looks way cheap.
I wish Hyperion luck and if I win the lottery I'll get an X1000 anyway but in my current financial state I think finding a PEG II looks like a better option.
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I'm afriad that I'm in the "way to damn expensive" camp here. I understand that low production run on niche harware is really expensive to produce but, wow!. Nobody is going to buy this except for the hardcore OS4 users.
I already thought that the Sam boards were too expensive....
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@DAX
Big mistake have an alien boing ball mark there. Real Amiga keyboards had an italic "A" and/or C=. And it is not even Amiga branded but some obscure AmigaOne brand.
If they made proper Amiga keyboards I would happily by one for my Mac.
Yeah, I would be interested in a new, *proper* Amiga keyboard (USB) as well. These keyboards I already have half a dozen of.
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The keyboard is a flimsy looking el cheapo one. The "amigaone" decal looks like some rubbery thing that has adhesive for attaching. Many companies use these to "brand" their products, such as no-name chinese laptops. It looks cheesy.
The "boing" keys look out of place. What happened to the amiga A mark anyway?
Well, it's no logitech £80 monster, but i don't buy those for my pc, and this one still manages to avoid reminding me they don't make keyboards for the system I use (they actually do now) and so if I want I am not forced to use apple or ms ones with windows logos.
In any case the others work on the X1000 as well, choice is good.
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@DAX
Big mistake have an alien boing ball mark there. Real Amiga keyboards had an italic "A" and/or C=. And it is not even Amiga branded but some obscure AmigaOne brand.
If they made proper Amiga keyboards I would happily by one for my Mac.
If you want i have a spare one here for the A2000, they work with adapters...
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If you want i have a spare one here for the A2000, they work with adapters...
I think there is a real market for quality "A" USB keyboards and mice. There is no reason why Hyperion or one of their licensees (or AI for that matter) couldn't make reasonable money on selling them. They need to stop going for the high hanging fruit and sell the low hanging fruit that is easiest to pick. But it's awfully hard to tell a bunch of elitist that they can make money via volume sales vs their high end products with a nano size market potential.
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Nice the see the rumour mill in full motion. Lets all wait an see.
Trevor Dick is starting rumors, is that what you are saying :confused:
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Wow how disappointing. Thats waaaayyyy too much money for me and I was hoping to get a new miggy. Well guess i will keep using my original miggys. For that price and if i felt i needed a top of mark new miggy I would have to buy a new PC and put Amiga Forever on it then. Good luck with those prices and actually making any money off what sales you do get.
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who is the target audience?
And this right here folks, is where the problem is.
It's too expensive for the hobby market, and completely outclassed by pro workstation/gaming laptops in the same price bracket.
I'm sure Trevor is a nice guy and everything I read about him suggests that. But I really think he has failed to do his homework on this one.
There was a fella that came on here a few months back regarding a possible PPC based system, he ran for the hills when he actually went out and made enquiries about a potential market for the product, even if it offered PPC Linux that wasn't nearly enough of a draw for folk.
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Nice the see the rumour mill in full motion. Lets all wait an see.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31869&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0#566219
No confusion about the price at all.
Amiga1Productions YouTube video allows you to see the answer yourself;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EaSN3IuZII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EaSN3IuZII)
at 5:20 into the video the exchange ls;
Question : "How much is it gonna cost?"
Answer : "I dunno, I really don't know. It's gonna be north of £1,500. Definatly. It can't be any cheaper"
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http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=31869&forum=33&start=100&viewmode=flat&order=0#566219
Have these two ever worked for Accenture, they smell like Accenture, that or Crapita.....
Its "Added Value" by the sounds of their patter....not an Amiga. Just that video alone has said to me.....steer clear....My Capri is safe for now. Note AEON, must try harder !
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Have these two ever worked for Accenture, they smell like Accenture, that or Crapita.....
Its "Added Value" by the sounds of their patter....not an Amiga. Just that video alone has said to me.....steer clear....My Capri is safe for now. Note AEON, must try harder !
I will say one thing.....I don't disagree with the limited vertical market the X1000 is going into. It needs a reputation before it can go any larger and cheaper.
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Its not like there's NO cheaper machine possible. There's a new SAM coming out as well for more of an affordable machine, and there's the existing ones as well.
They've been clear about that from the beginning
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I suppose one good thing about the price is it may prevent people stockpiling Amigas.
Those original A1, SAM and Peg users may put their old machine on the market in order to raise funds for the X1000.
That would be win win in my book. More users all round.
From a personal point of view I've got the money for the X1000 and have never used OS4. So it will probably be my first OS4 machine. However, though I have the money, I don't have the space for it at the moment, and not sure when I will!
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Its not like there's NO cheaper machine possible. There's a new SAM coming out as well for more of an affordable machine, and there's the existing ones as well.
Sure, then we go from an *absolutely insane price* to "very expensive", especially considering the poor performance the Sam offers (*lousy* bang for the buck ratio).
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Sure, then we go from an *absolutely insane price* to "very expensive", especially considering the poor performance the Sam offers (*lousy* bang for the buck ratio).
Very expensive but affordable. Unless you are Dell or another company that can churn out thousands of machines, this stuff gets pretty pricey.
Is it overpriced even with that in mind? Possibly. I don't know enough to make that decision.
All I know is whether or not something is within the price range I can afford and justify to myself.
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Sure, then we go from an *absolutely insane price* to "very expensive", especially considering the poor performance the Sam offers (*lousy* bang for the buck ratio).
If you want bang for the buck, wrong forum! then X1000 is a bigger bang for a bigger buck....no change there. !
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Trevor Dick is starting rumors, is that what you are saying :confused:
Hmmmm, I didnt want to say anything, but your a TROLL.
Your delibrately trying to wind me up.
He said "north of 1500", now normal logical people would think, ok its going to be above 1500, how much above, noone knows as yet.
Why people are moaning so much is beyond me.
Fact, people who moan, always seem to buy the product they are moaning about.
And the comments on the keyboards, just crazy, funny how we sold out, ;).
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Heres a bang for your buck.
NexCom EBC 572 PC/104 Mobo, 5.25" Drive Bay Form Factor.
Main Features
* Supports Intel® Pentium® M/ Celeron® M Processor Up to 2 GHz+ with 400 MHz FSB
* Intel® 855GME Chipset For EBC 572/572A/ EBC 572(LF), Intel® 852GM Chipset For EBC 572-C65/ EBC 572(LF)-C65
* 2 x 184-pin DIMM, Supports DDR 200/266/333 Memory Up to 2 GB
* 2 x Intel® 82551QM/82562 EM 10/100 LAN
* Supports 36-bit LVDS
* PC/104 and CompactFlash Socket
2 Quid at the car boot this morning...almost spotless,tested and working. Already spun up DSL on SSD drive on it.
* Thats VFM ;)
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Heres a bang for your buck.
NexCom EBC 572 PC/104 Mobo, 5.25" Drive Bay Form Factor.
Main Features
* Supports Intel® Pentium® M/ Celeron® M Processor Up to 2 GHz+ with 400 MHz FSB
* Intel® 855GME Chipset For EBC 572/572A/ EBC 572(LF), Intel® 852GM Chipset For EBC 572-C65/ EBC 572(LF)-C65
* 2 x 184-pin DIMM, Supports DDR 200/266/333 Memory Up to 2 GB
* 2 x Intel® 82551QM/82562 EM 10/100 LAN
* Supports 36-bit LVDS
* PC/104 and CompactFlash Socket
2 Quid at the car boot this morning...almost spotless,tested and working. Already spun up DSL on SSD drive on it.
* Thats VFM ;)
Amazing, that can run OS4.1-2?
Fail to see how this has anything to do with the topic, you can not compare a PC to an X1000.
I should really take my own advise and not bother posting (pointless).
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Fact, people who moan, always seem to buy the product they are moaning about.
And the comments on the keyboards, just crazy, funny how we sold out, ;).
Hmmmmm.....The Ufology merchandise sellers at Leeds International UFO Conference say the same thing.....didn't make what they flog fact neither. Seen Any Good UFO's recently ?
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Amazing, that can run OS4.1-2?
Fail to see how this has anything to do with the topic, you can not compare a PC to an X1000.
I should really take my own advise and not bother posting (pointless).
and I should buy from U !!!!!!!!!!!! ? Take a Chill Pill !
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After a quick check, 600-650EURO for SAM460 are insane too for only motherboard and processor. It's free Windows five more years to come.
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Hmmmm, I didnt want to say anything, but your a TROLL.
Your delibrately trying to wind me up.
He said "north of 1500", now normal logical people would think, ok its going to be above 1500, how much above, noone knows as yet.
Why people are moaning so much is beyond me.
Fact, people who moan, always seem to buy the product they are moaning about.
And the comments on the keyboards, just crazy, funny how we sold out, ;).
Please show me where I trolled. He said north of 1500GBP, I said 1500GBP. Feel free to point out where I suggested otherwise.
Pretty rude from an unpaying advertiser who likes to spam the forum.
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It was ca.1500EURO there was talk about a few months ago, now they say 1500GBP+. It is ca.300EURO+ more.
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Amazing, that can run OS4.1-2?
From what Trevor was saying, it was highly questionable that the X1000 could either - as they said that was the first time it had ever booted on that hardware...
The question then becomes: Does OS4 offer enough incentive over and above something that can run UAE/Amithlon and OS3.9 as fast if not faster for a fraction of the cost? Hell even MorphOS running on a £40 eMac suddenly becomes a serious issue if you absolutely must have next gen software.
For a very select few that answer will be yes, I must have OS4, but even with this the X1000 has to compete against both the Sam440 and 460.
No matter how you try to paint it, the X1000 is in a very very weak position.
Fail to see how this has anything to do with the topic, you can not compare a PC to an X1000.
It has everything to do with the topic and the only reason you might fail to see it is if you're a zealot.
This machine is aimed at a hobbyist marketplace but at a cost usually associated with professional tools such as workstations. As a result you have anyone other than a zealot who will naturally compare what they would be getting with other offerings in the marketplace. In that light the X1000 compares very, very poorly.
I should really take my own advise and not bother posting (pointless).
When your position is as weak as yours is... I agree.
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you can not compare a PC to an X1000.
Exactly! PCs are cheap, powerful and plentiful.
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The AmigaOneX1000 will be a very good Amiga, but the price is going to be too high for me.
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I've decided to face facts: I'm a zealot. I keep pouring money into upgrades for my classics (Deneb, Indivision, GVP remakes, etc.) with no regrets, just got a SamFlex 733mhz system with no regrets and also found an eMac on the local Craigslist for a song and registered MorphOS. No regrets there and a comparative bargain to be sure. I have AmigaForever installed on a laptop but prefer messing with my hardware Amigas. For whatever reason, the emulation route brings me no great joy. Will have to try again with AROS, but so far I've never managed to get it booting on any of my x86 hardware. Must try harder.
And now, despite the sticker shock, I've decided that it's inevitable that I will own an A1X1000. Looks like I've got a few months at least, maybe a lot longer, to store away the money, like a squirrel stashing the nuts for winter. The eventual question will be: Do I sell the SamFlex to help fund the X1000 purchase? Judging by my past behavior, I'll keep it in the collection and suffer in other areas.
$2,225, huh? Last time I geared up for a big computer buy like that was my PowerMac G5 dual 2GHZ, the first one that came out. I think it was $3,200 the way I spec'ed it out in 2003. Still use it, though I've bought a couple of newer Intel Macs that are more powerful and, of course, cheaper.
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I CANNOT believe you people. WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING IT TO COST $499>?
This is a custom piece of hardware and at the moment THE best piece of kit EVER to come out bearing the Amiga name. And all you guys do is WINGE WINGE WINGE.
Sure not everyone can afford it. BUT its not coming from a major pc manufacturer.
There isnt half a million units rolled out, and its NOT going to come at a loss to the developer.
If you dont like the price DONT BUY IT. winging and complaining about a good piece of hardware isnt going to help anyone. let alone the people trying make this platform a reality.
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winging and complaining about a good piece of hardware isnt going to help anyone.
Phew, so whinging and complaining about crappy, expensive hardware is still okay :)
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Any word on the Xena chipset and its capabilities? I thought that was supposed to be a major selling point.
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I CANNOT believe you people. WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING IT TO COST $499>?
This is a custom piece of hardware and at the moment THE best piece of kit EVER to come out bearing the Amiga name. And all you guys do is WINGE WINGE WINGE.
Sure not everyone can afford it. BUT its not coming from a major pc manufacturer.
There isnt half a million units rolled out, and its NOT going to come at a loss to the developer.
If you dont like the price DONT BUY IT. winging and complaining about a good piece of hardware isnt going to help anyone. let alone the people trying make this platform a reality.
Sorry but two things:
This piece of hardware isnt an Amiga (amiga is a500, a1200, cd32...) its under the name amigaone.
If people dont like the price they can give an opinion, theres more opinion than yours sorry.
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Unless you are Dell or another company that can churn out thousands of machines, this stuff gets pretty pricey.
IIRC the Pegasos 2 G4 was *never* as expensive as the Sam, despite being so much more powerful, not even when it first was introduced (which was when its price was the highest). Towards the end they put it on sale for $399, and even then it probably included a small profit margin, because Genesi never sold stuff at loss AFAIK.
Is it overpriced even with that in mind? Possibly. I don't know enough to make that decision.
It's a "G2" board. Sure, it's more powerful and expandable than the Efika, and far from being as limited in general, but the Efika at least has the benefit of being *ultra-low-cost*.
If you for some reason have limited yourself to only consider OS4, then a Pegasos2 is a much better buy. Many of the most serious OS4 people/developers already got a Peg2, because of its acknowledged quality, price and performance.
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IIRC the Pegasos 2 G4 was *never* as expensive as the Sam, despite being so much more powerful, not even when it first was introduced (which was when its price was the highest). Towards the end they put it on sale for $399, and even then it probably included a small profit margin, because Genesi never sold stuff at loss AFAIK.
They also sold the Pegasos for non OS4 uses though. Im not sure where the main sales came from. I'd have bought two in a heartbeat for 399 though, thats for sure :)
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And the comments on the keyboards, just crazy, funny how we sold out, ;).
If that is true, then it is indeed funny. It tells me a lot. Not about the keyboard though...
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The AmigaOneX1000 will be a very good Amiga
How do you know that?
but the price is going to be too high for me.
Yeah, and you're hardly alone in this conclusion...
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Heres a bang for your buck.
NexCom EBC 572 PC/104 Mobo, 5.25" Drive Bay Form Factor.
Main Features
* Supports Intel® Pentium® M/ Celeron® M Processor Up to 2 GHz+ with 400 MHz FSB
* Intel® 855GME Chipset For EBC 572/572A/ EBC 572(LF), Intel® 852GM Chipset For EBC 572-C65/ EBC 572(LF)-C65
* 2 x 184-pin DIMM, Supports DDR 200/266/333 Memory Up to 2 GB
* 2 x Intel® 82551QM/82562 EM 10/100 LAN
* Supports 36-bit LVDS
* PC/104 and CompactFlash Socket
2 Quid at the car boot this morning...almost spotless,tested and working. Already spun up DSL on SSD drive on it.
* Thats VFM ;)
Cool thing!
I have always thought those 5.25" Drive Bay Form Factor designs were cool in a special way. IIRC someone made an Efika cluster in the same manner.
:)
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I CANNOT believe you people. WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING IT TO COST $499>?
The Pegasos2 MB was sold at that price AFAIK.
This is a custom piece of hardware and at the moment THE best piece of kit EVER to come out bearing the Amiga name.
No, not Amiga name, AMIGAONE (running an OS not called Amiga OS, but AmigaOS4)
If trademarks is that important to you, at least try to get them right.
And all you guys do is WINGE WINGE WINGE.
Sure not everyone can afford it. BUT its not coming from a major pc manufacturer.
There isnt half a million units rolled out, and its NOT going to come at a loss to the developer.
Please quit making excuses on other people's behalf.
When Genesi was developing the Quad Core G5 board, they shelved it at some point, because it would end up being much too expensive, not many would buy it, so there was no point. And that was a long time ago, it would still have been cheaper than the "X1000", and the "X1000" isn't exactly Quad Core G5...
Look, *I know* that no new HW can compete with cheap second hand gear that people more or less throw after you as you go by at the local flee market, but the "X1000" price is nothing short of insane. And it's a hobby after all, nothing more. What most people are interested in, is simply tinkering with the environment they like, run the apps they are fond of, etc. That's the essence, and this is the reason to why the MorphOS team has chosen to support the eMac, *it's dead cheap*, it's *perfect* for the Hobbyist wanting to try out MorphOS without investing a fortune! It's a very clever decision, nobody can argue with this. It's all about Hyperion's decision vs. the MorphOS teams' decision. Who do you think made the most clever one?
It's a hobby, and with this in mind, and provided that...
1) You want the very best available *miga OS to tinker with
2) You don't mind buying second hand gear
...this is what you can have to play with instead of taking out a second mortgage on your house to buy *one single* "X1000":
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg)
This first one is a complete MorphOS enabled system, with registered keyfile and all, this is the one you'll use. But you are anxious about "but ... but ... it doesn't come with a 2 year warranty", so you buy some spare HW and store it in your garage, just in case:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg)
So if that first system breaks down, you can ask the MorphOS team to transfer your key file to the next in line, and then the next, etc. Please note that you are still below the price for a single "X1000".
OR, if you want as many *MorphOS registered systems* as possible, you can have this many:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg) (http://i45.tinypic.com/2yyrs53.jpg)
Each and every one of these will be complete 1.25GHz systems (runs circles around any Sam), with fully registered MorphOS, ready to go. I've seen Internet Cafés with less machines than this.
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Pretty rude from an unpaying advertiser who likes to spam the forum.
I was'nt being rude and im not an unpaying advertiser who likes to spam forums. Please point me to any posts where I have spammed the forums.
I think your confusing me with someone else.
I wont be posting any more, I seem to remember why I never post here.
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The Pegasos2 MB was sold at that price AFAIK.
The Peg2 was a decent system at a reasonable price (by amiga hardware standards).
Why did they stop making it?
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(http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/popcorn-big.jpg)
Anybody want some?
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Sorry but two things:
This piece of hardware isnt an Amiga (amiga is a500, a1200, cd32...) its under the name amigaone.
If people dont like the price they can give an opinion, theres more opinion than yours sorry.
Mighty wrong.
The models you named are old products made by the company that happened to have the ball at the time, Commodore, which by the way, got the ball by paying money to get that stuff from Miner/Morse company.
That company happened to fail, and they sold to Escom than to Gateway than to Amiga Inc (simplifying) the latter is the actual owners of the ball and they decide what's what.
A few years ago they decided to divide their new Amiga products in 2 lines, their "De/Anywhere" ideas, and a more classic rendition of the platform AmigaOS running on computers called AmigaOne.
After a series of distputes they handed the second part to Hyperion in last september settlement, so these are official Amiga next generation projects (as opposed to the abandoned retro computers you mentioned).
If you have proof such as (legal documents) prooving otherwise I will be happy to take a look at them.
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The Peg2 was a decent system at a reasonable price (by amiga hardware standards).
Why did they stop making it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive was a major contributing factor I believe.
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After a series of distputes they handed the second part to Hyperion in last september settlement
As far as I can read not all rights were transferred.
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TMHM
By the way, they can call it Amiga OS it's in the settlement, so you might very well see Amiga OS 5 as their next major iteration (think of how that will make you nervous :lol:)
As for your usual I buy 2 million emacs, go on, I suggest you open a money savvy business in a third world country, as for what's better, ensuring some dignity to Amiga with HW specifically done for it, is the way to go, as it will lead to good things in the future.
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The Peg2 was a decent system at a reasonable price (by amiga hardware standards).
It was. :)
Why did they stop making it?
Because the European Union introduced the RoHS directive for environmental reasons, meaning that the board would require a major redesign, and since the board already had aged a few years, they dropped it instead.
Genesi were at the time considering various other "Desktop" options based on other CPU's, but eventually they went for the "Netbook" and "Nettop" niches. First by the PPC based designs most known as "LimePC"/"Cherrypal", but now they are wholly focused on ARM designs: the Efika MX Smartbook (http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/smartbook) and the Efika MX Open Client (http://www.genesi-usa.com/products/efika).
Mass produced, and if everything goes as planned, it should go on sale this month AFAIK!
:)
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It was. :)
Because the European Union introduced the RoHS directive for environmental reasons, meaning that the board would require a major redesign, and since the board already had aged a few years, they dropped it instead.
That's a load of shit. ROHS had nothing to do with that.
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As far as I can read not all rights were transferred.
I did't say Hyperion is now AmigaInc, just that the second part of their business plan (classic rendition of the platform as AmigaOne+AmigaOS) has been legally handed over to Hyperion.
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I was'nt being rude and im not an unpaying advertiser who likes to spam forums. Please point me to any posts where I have spammed the forums.
I think your confusing me with someone else.
I wont be posting any more, I seem to remember why I never post here.
@red
Not sure where your statement is coming from about Follett, but maybe a change to a decaffeinated brand of coffee may help. :roflmao:
@the amiga community, if you have an invested interest with some skin in the game with this X1000 HW push then I can understand the concern. But, for most I see it as an opportunity to vent your frustration out on it and others.:furious: I think we can objectively look at this project and intelligently discern good from bad without burning each other in the process.
Ok, I will be quiet now...........
The Dawg
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Because the European Union introduced the RoHS directive for environmental reasons, meaning that the board would require a major redesign, and since the board already had aged a few years, they dropped it instead.
Surely RoHS compliance required only a change to the materials used in the PCB itself and using lead free solder rather than any electronic redesign. Which, assuming board production was outsourced anyway, should not have really been much of a problem regardless.
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Surely RoHS compliance required only a change to the materials used in the PCB itself and using lead free solder rather than any electronic redesign.
Nope, it would have required massive redesign. Many of the components were no longer available or weren't available as RoHS.
Which, assuming board production was outsourced anyway, should not have really been much of a problem regardless.
It wasn't outsourced, the production happened at b-plan gmbh (http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/) (DCE production lines afaik, basically the source of all phase5 boards as well).
Some video http://www.bplan-gmbh.org/news/april.mov
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RoHS is also valid for the solder-balls on BGA parts (and the parts themselves), there is one problem as some parts used in the Pegasos were quite old (like the VIA-SB).
Even something as simple as an edge-connector can be non-RoHS.
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First by the PPC based designs most known as "LimePC"/"Cherrypal", but now they are wholly focused on ARM designs: the Efika MX Smartbook and the Efika MX Open Client.
Mass produced, and if everything goes as planned, it should go on sale this month AFAIK!
I like this idea a lot. Amiga should try and push into new markets instead of stagnating. I'll give this board some serious consideration. Can you start a new thread on it? First thing I want to know is what are your options for net connectivity.
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Too expensive... And it has nothing to do with Amiga as we knew it.. So why bother?
Please explain...
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Hmm, no responses on the Xena chipset question, and surprisingly The Register seems to have answered my question first:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/21/amiga_x1000/
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Too expensive... And it has nothing to do with Amiga as we knew it.. So why bother?
Please explain...
I have to agree, still it's no worse for RISC OS lovers in the Price to Performance ratio but is still way too much for something that is very PeeCee'ish.
Might aswell spend that on the mother of all Amiga's with upgrades so you have a genuine setup rather then something with a boing ball on it with a pricetag to match. Maybe im missing the point...
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@tokyoracer
I wrote this in another thread but it seems quite fit here as well: OCS/AGA by 1992 were nothing special anymore, J Miner himself replyed to a question in an interview (at the A4000 launch) that for pro apps on his 2 A2000s he needed RTG cards and couldn't understand why they didn't do anything like it in the A4000. AAA was admitted as being too little too late by many Commodore engineers, who also wrote a long paper as to how Amiga would develop after AAA, and if you read it you will see the X1000 is what they describe (I kid you not).
This is as "different" as it gets for todays standards, times where GPUs are everything (or are becoming so), and quite frankly even if Commodore would still be alive there would be no Amiga "as you remember it" if that amiga is the 1985 raster graphics console (then made computer). Time changes, ces't la vie.
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That's a ridiculous high price for a system that doesn't even offer a stable web browser or an office suite. This is just another example of how fanatical Amiga users get "gouged". And next someone will point out that the Friedens are working on Timberwolf. Who cares?! $2225+ just to surf the web using an alpha version of Firefox? You've got to be kidding.
If the X1000 acutally had a robust software base and could do some serious work that justifies its high price, it might be commercially successful. Hyperion and A-Eon are just forging a much smaller niche for an already microscopic user base.
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As long as its not compatible with classics. Its not of any interest..
They should have gone the Natami way.
Maybe im just very pesimistic here.. Sorry.. :)
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@mikeymike
The article you reference speaks of an OpenOffice port for the X1000. Is this something "official" or just another rumor. I can't find anything that states that Hyperion is working on an OpenOffice port. Just a vague statement from Trevor Dickinson on the Obligement web site that it's being ported as a "Lite" version or a version for "kids". $2225 for a system with a crippled version of Open Office and an an alpha version of Firefox is a joke. Why would anyone pay good money for that?.....PT Barnum was right. There's a sucker born every minute.
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From a personal point of view I've got the money for the X1000 and have never used OS4. So it will probably be my first OS4 machine. However, though I have the money, I don't have the space for it at the moment, and not sure when I will!
You have plenty of time to make space for it - at least six months according to A-eon.
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@mikeymike
The article you reference speaks of an OpenOffice port for the X1000. Is this something "official" or just another rumor. I can't find anything that states that Hyperion is working on an OpenOffice port. Just a vague statement from Trevor Dickinson on the Obligement web site that it's being ported as a "Lite" version or a version for "kids". $2225 for a system with a crippled version of Open Office and an an alpha version of Firefox is a joke. Why would anyone pay good money for that?.....PT Barnum was right. There's a sucker born every minute.
The only jokes around are the people that still do not understand this machine is not aimed at Amigans at large but a small population of developers and PowerUsers (read: enthusiast with enough money or "will"). It only serves as a vehicle for the first, to evolve the platform, and it's just a first step.
@roomeo
OS4 might get a seamless/trasparent OCS/AGA emulation layer invisible to the end users, it already has external utilities for that, it only needs to be integrated inside the OS. We'll see what happens.
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@DAX
There are probably only 10 Amiga PowerUsers left on the planet and most of them are employed by Hyperion. Not a model of success, even for a "PowerUser" market.
And PowerUsers who only have an alpha version of Firefox and a vapor port of Open Office? They must have self-delusions of grandeur.
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I was'nt being rude and im not an unpaying advertiser who likes to spam forums. Please point me to any posts where I have spammed the forums.
I think your confusing me with someone else.
I wont be posting any more, I seem to remember why I never post here.
You are from Amigakit, no?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=2273
Feel free to post anywhere you'd like, like the other site where you enjoy badmouthing other dealers.
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@DAX
There are probably only 10 Amiga PowerUsers left on the planet and most of them are employed by Hyperion. Not a model of success, even for a "PowerUser" market.
And PowerUsers who only have an alpha version of Firefox and a vapor port of Open Office? They must have self-delusions of grandeur.
TD said in the week end they have 150 people that want to beta test the system, with many (like me) waiting for the fully boxed product.
They will match what their aiming for, and as i said this is a first step.
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@DAX
Well, I do wish them the best. I hope the X1000 turns out to be a success but after years of disappointments in the Amiga community it's difficult not to be cynical and/or skeptical.
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@red
Not sure where your statement is coming from about Follett, but maybe a change to a decaffeinated brand of coffee may help. :roflmao:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=565953&postcount=91
Calling an original member / long time moderator a troll for repeating, without paraphrasing, a statement made by the head of A-Eon is pretty rude.
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The only jokes around are the people that still do not understand this machine is not aimed at Amigans at large but a small population of developers and PowerUsers (read: enthusiast with enough money or "will"). It only serves as a vehicle for the first, to evolve the platform, and it's just a first step.
I think DAX makes a good point. We still have a chicken/egg situation as far as power software being required to sell power hardware/ power hardware being required to develop power software is concerned.
Perhaps the end user market should stick to the SAM for now and let people like him that are willing to pay the price for the X1000 and develop new software we need get on with the job.
I for one salute anyone that helps push the Amiga platform forward with the use of time and money in a way I'm not in a position to do. I just hope that between them and the few rich kids who'll buy an X1000 regardless of price that this works out well for Hyperion. As part of the end user market myself, the SAM or a PEG II is a better option for now, until the chicken hatches at least.
SAM, PEG or X1000, all sales of OS4 put Hyperion in a better position. That's a good thing for OS4 either way.
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You are from Amigakit, no?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=2273
Feel free to post anywhere you'd like, like the other site where you enjoy badmouthing other dealers.
Well, Im not that person, and I have not bad mouthed any company.
I said one thing and it appears you have gone after me for no reason at all, apart from the fact that I work at amigakit.
Look if you have problems with amigakit, then thats your problem, not mine. Fact is I was coming here long before I started working at amigakit.
So can you please retract your statement where you accuse me of bad mouthing other companies.
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The only jokes around are the people that still do not understand this machine is not aimed at Amigans at large but a small population of developers and PowerUsers (read: enthusiast with enough money or "will"). It only serves as a vehicle for the first, to evolve the platform, and it's just a first step.
Okay, so where have these developers been hiding for the past six years? Are you saying they refused to buy the A1 and the SAM because they weren't priced *high* enough?
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I did a quick calculation last night to utilize the rate of inflation from 1985 until today and considering the original price of the Amiga 1000's on introduction of US$1295.00... and, magically, the number in 2010 US dollars looks like it would be very close to $2500!
Considering the cost of the RGB monitor, which was the only one that was compatible with the Amiga at the time, that number goes higher than 2010 US$3000!
On the other hand, it is not 1985 and one could say that the advantage of this new hardware in 2010 doesn't make a tremendously compelling argument.
That said, I am putting aside some money in an Amiga fund... :-)
Ron
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@redrumloa
I'm not sure this is appropriate behaviour from a forum moderator.
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I think the intimation (call it what you will) that the price will be in excess of 1500 UKP has gotten people pretty wound up.
Probably best if we all just sit back and relax. Arguing with each other and getting into off-topic personal spats isn't going to actually make it any cheaper.
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Okay, so where have these developers been hiding for the past six years? Are you saying they refused to buy the A1 and the SAM because they weren't priced *high* enough?
AmigaOS development in the past 6 years has been spotty at best, Rogue over at AWs said many times they didn't want their work to be lost (ie: handed over for nothing).
Settlement has been signed a few months ago and both AOS Core Developers and aficionados devs, are tapping at the keyboard way more than in the past.
Let's see what happens now that both SW and HW are under control (a situation we never had unitll now).
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"The only jokes around are the people that still do not understand this machine is not aimed at Amigans at large but a small population of developers and PowerUsers (read: enthusiast with enough money or "will"). It only serves as a vehicle for the first, to evolve the platform, and it's just a first step."
No, this has all happened before and is happening again. Phase5 and all its expensive, mostly out of reach, hardware etc.. Oh crap I'm sounding like Cylon. Even the CPU is essentially the same, ahhhh run, run away. :destroy:
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@roomeo
OS4 might get a seamless/trasparent OCS/AGA emulation layer invisible to the end users, it already has external utilities for that, it only needs to be integrated inside the OS. We'll see what happens.
Not to start an argument, but then os4 on x1000 is as much an Amiga as my WindowsXP running winUae..
Its still not a real Amiga.
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I prefer to use the label, "HyperionOS" personally.
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Not to start an argument, but then os4 on x1000 is as much an Amiga as my WindowsXP running winUae..
Its still not a real Amiga.
That must have to do with your idea of "Amiga" as being a 1980 2D raster graphics game console (then turned computer), however the next installment of a given computer system it's not more or less authentic, "depending on how close it's HW design is to the very first machine produced in that line many years ago", and in fact the latest MacPro and the latest Playstation share nothing with the originals (even the Xbox360 shares nothing with its predecessor).
That line of thinking it's a distorted pile of BS that I only hear in Amiga sites. What happens in reality (ie: in the real world) is that a team of engineers sits around a table (either real or virtual) and decides what will be best for the platform based on available technology (available through their HW partners even if currently under wraps).
The new system comes out (such as PS3, MacPro or Xbox360) and might offer some level of retro-compatibility via emulation layers.
The X1000 is just the product of real world thinking and is a modern design that takes heterogeneous computing at heart by allowing the addition of extra Integer crunching power through Xmos Tech and extra Flops crunching power via GP-GPU.
We should be all proud that the next Amiga will once again be a very unique (and out of the box) Home Computer system, specially considering that as we discussed with user The_Leander thoroughly, C= had decided Amiga was a dead parrot and scrapped it completely (ie: if they dind't go bankrupt there would have been no Amiga whatsoever in any way or form).
They were planning to release a game console based on the Hombre chipset but this HW was no Amiga as Dave Haynie confessed:
Strictly speaking, Hombre is not an Amiga chip set. While it supports some of the Amiga ideas, it's no more Amiga compatible than an SVGA chip (less actually, since all SVGA chips support planar as well as chunky displays,at least up to 4 bits/pixel).
The Amiga OS was not to have run on this system in any form.
They also had a WindowsNT PA-Risc based workstation planned (note that none of the above projects even came close to completion).
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@DAX
You keep doing this... just making up facts to support your farfetched dreams, but do go on... I suppose it is mildly amusing.
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@DAX
You keep doing this... just making up facts to support your farfetched dreams, but do go on... I suppose it is mildly amusing.
You're free to counter them
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You're free to counter them
What's the point? you will bend any reply you get to support your delusions :)
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What's the point? you will bend any reply you get to support your delusions :)
have try, might find out your deluded as much ;)
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I prefer to use the label, "HyperionOS" personally.
You can call it whatever you want, but Hyperion have the legal right to call it AmigaOS, and it is a continuation of AmigaOS. Call it "SausageCustard3000MooBlahBonkWizz" if you like, doesn't stop it being AmigaOS.
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@DAX
I would suggest you go recheck what you quote as facts, 99% of it seems to be mere speculation or you simply misunderstanding what was said. Not saying it couldn't happen given sufficient time and resources, but your estimates seem way too optimistic unless some drastic change happens. And no, the change in legal status really isn't really as significant as you make it out to be.
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You can call it whatever you want, but Hyperion have the legal right to call it AmigaOS, and it is a continuation of AmigaOS. Call it "SausageCustard3000MooBlahBonkWizz" if you like, doesn't stop it being AmigaOS.
In name only my friend. There is nothing more "amiga" in HyperionOS than what's in MorphOS or AROS. The legal argument doesn't impress me and it has nothing to do with the product or it's design. If Amiga Inc licensed the name to a dildo manufacturer, would you have the same feelings about a dildo with a boing ball logo attached to it?
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@DAX
I would suggest you go recheck what you quote as facts, 99% of it seems to be mere speculation or you simply misunderstanding what was said. Not saying it couldn't happen given sufficient time and resources, but your estimates seem way too optimistic unless some drastic change happens.
On my optimism: If you analyze recent months instead of very old past happenings, you will notice that things have changed and the level of effort and commitment today is up 10 folds. So my stance is "we have this and this possibility" thanks to this new situation.
If this level of commitment is suddenly stopped I will surely change my mind, but I don't see any "recent" signal of that happening.
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It's quite easy to tell that DAX hasn't been around for long.
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It's quite easy to tell that DAX hasn't been around for long.
That's not completely correct, i've been around from 1988 till 1997 and now I'm back to stay, so we will live together future happenings ;) (and I will have to bear you guys dragging the past 10 years to the present all the time :lol:)
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That's not completely correct, i've been around from 1988 till 1997 and now I'm back to stay, so we will live together future happenings ;) (and I will have to bear you guys dragging the past 10 years to the present all the time :lol:)
So you choose to ignore what the people currently involved achieved in those years?
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In name only my friend. There is nothing more "amiga" in HyperionOS than what's in MorphOS or AROS. The legal argument doesn't impress me and it has nothing to do with the product or it's design. If Amiga Inc licensed the name to a dildo manufacturer, would you have the same feelings about a dildo with a boing ball logo attached to it?
Even if you own a Mercedes 500SL and in a court case you settle to hand it over to your divorcing wife (let's say she is called Brenda), the change in ownership doesn't turn the car into a "Brenda 500SL" It will remain what it is, a Mecedes 500SL.
AmigaOS is not called AmigaOS because it belonged to Amiga-Inc. (Delaware or what not).
Is like saying that since Commodore bought Miner and Morse company than the OS became "CommodoreOS" as soon as a new version was made by Commodore (ie:2.0/2.1/3.0) by other people not related to the original Amiga group from the early 80s. (utter Nonesense).
There is a Chronology, a Sourcecode, and the fact that the only evolution that original sourcecode (that dates back many years) , is called AmigaOS4 and only Hyperion can developt it and sell it.
AmigaOS is now in the hands of Hyperion as it was in the hands of Amiga Inc before and as it was in the hands of Commodore even earlier (all three were not the original creators of the OS but they were entitled to further develop it and sell it in their due time).
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So you choose to ignore what the people currently involved achieved in those years?
this can be interpreted in may ways, make a couple of examples please.
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this can be interpreted in may ways, make a couple of examples please.
No need to interpret anything, just look at what was done.
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No need to interpret anything, just look at what was done.
As I said many times I loved my Amiga (vanilla A2000 bought in 1988 and then expanded with Gforce 040 DKB 2MBchipram and Picasso 2) as computer not as a gaming console. I know there were big mess ups in the past but I wouldn't be back if I didn't notice a chance of getting again a similar Amiga.
All I care for is to have competent Amiga computer system that helps me in my computing tasks while at home, we are not there yet (many things are missing), but I'm happy to support the project.
Hope it goes well and for the last several months, things went differently then in the past which points to "a change" (something that many here fail to realize).
Anyway we will all be here to see how it goes won't we?
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That's not completely correct, i've been around from 1988 till 1997 and now I'm back to stay, so we will live together future happenings ;) (and I will have to bear you guys dragging the past 10 years to the present all the time :lol:)
You left only few months before great things were promised to happen ;) It really shows you only lived the best years of Commodore and few years after Commodore's demise when the community was still strong.
It all collapsed in years 1997-2000 when remaining Amiga companies collapsed, magazines ceased to exist and developers left. Virtually everything we have today has been created from ground zero. There was a time when every Amigan in the world didnt know each others...
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You left only few months before great things were promised to happen ;) It really shows you only lived the best years of Commodore and few years after Commodore's demise when the community was still strong.
It all collapsed in years 1997-2000 when remaining Amiga companies collapsed, magazines ceased to exist and developers left. Virtually everything we have today has been created from ground zero. There was a time when every Amigan in the world didnt know each others...
hard times I know, in Italy we had the last magazine (EnigmaAmigaMagazine) published and delivered to newsstands nation-wide until 2001 (got some back issues) and I see both big troubles (the gateway/qnx/Boxx fiascos just to name a few) and some good things, such as H&P still updating their AmigaWriter and ArtEffect sw ,not to mention some good games.
But then things got even worse, and I don't think anybody would love to see all that happening again.
At the moment I don't see it happening as Hyperion is in control of both SW and HW this time, Ainc was out of control in both cases.
I foresee a better outcome this time, but in case it goes like in the past, we will be able to say we lived this deja-vu together this time around.
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In name only my friend. There is nothing more "amiga" in HyperionOS than what's in MorphOS or AROS.
Except that it *actually* *is* AmigaOS, and is a continued development from the OS that shipped with Commodore Amigas. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't change the fact that legally it is the only OS allowed to be called AmigaOS.
BTW, my loyalty to OS4 is only down to the fact that i genuinely really like OS4. The two things are separate, i am merely stating the facts.
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Except that it *actually* *is* AmigaOS, and is a continued development from the OS that shipped with Commodore Amigas. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't change the fact that legally it is the only OS allowed to be called AmigaOS.
BTW, my loyalty to OS4 is only down to the fact that i genuinely really like OS4. The two things are separate, i am merely stating the facts.
Isn't still called Tripos !? Plenty trippin went on while they fleeced commodore to buy it.
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Except that it *actually* *is* AmigaOS, and is a continued development from the OS that shipped with Commodore Amigas. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't change the fact that legally it is the only OS allowed to be called AmigaOS.
ExecSG is not a continued development and did not exist before the OS4 project began.
Of Intuition, Workbench, and the shell - only Hyperion really knows how much - if any - of the original code was actually used. The fact that much of it was written in 68K assembler really strains credibility that any of it was particularly useful, and Hyperion developers have said as much.
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The fact that much of it was written in 68K assembler really strains credibility that any of it was particularly useful, and Hyperion developers have said as much.
I thought most of the OS was written in C?
The RKM hints at that:
Most of the Amiga operating system is written in C (with the rest written in 68000 assembly language), hence C is the language used for the programming examples.
desiv
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@desiv
To some people it might depend on the argument they're trying to make, please don't bring facts into this.
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Except that it *actually* *is* AmigaOS, and is a continued development from the OS that shipped with Commodore Amigas. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't change the fact that legally it is the only OS allowed to be called AmigaOS.
BTW, my loyalty to OS4 is only down to the fact that i genuinely really like OS4. The two things are separate, i am merely stating the facts.
No it's not, it's a rewrite like the others.
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ExecSG is not a continued development and did not exist before the OS4 project began.
Of Intuition, Workbench, and the shell - only Hyperion really knows how much - if any - of the original code was actually used. The fact that much of it was written in 68K assembler really strains credibility that any of it was particularly useful, and Hyperion developers have said as much.
They probably didn't use any of it, what would be the point? Didn't Hyperion state some time ago that they reimplimented everything from scratch and didn't use any of the 3.x source code?
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I haven't owned an Amiga since I sold my 4000 in the mid nineties but do check in a couple of times a week.
As much as i'd like a new one (and can afford £1500), it's just too expensive.
Great to see new hardware (& some innovation again) , but it harks back to the days when A2000's cost an arm and a leg.... the market has changed to the point that laptops & desktops are almost throwaway items.
We would have loved to have stocked this in the shop but it's not 1989 anymore.
Here's hoping they get their costs down and it becomes affordable.
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No it's not, it's a rewrite like the others.
Yes it is. I know because I have access to the source code. Hyperion ported AmigaOS to PowerPC. While doing so, they replaced some components (like Exec), and enhanced others.
This is beside the point, though. Even if it was a rewrite, it would still be AmigaOS, just like MacOS X is MacOS because Apple say so.
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ExecSG is not a continued development and did not exist before the OS4 project began.
Your point being?
Of Intuition, Workbench, and the shell - only Hyperion really knows how much - if any - of the original code was actually used.
I actually know! ;-)
The fact that much of it was written in 68K assembler really strains credibility that any of it was particularly useful, and Hyperion developers have said as much.
A lot of it was C. As I recall (and it wasn't secret), it required 3 different C compilers and an old Sun workstation to compile without changes in its original state, though.
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Anyway we will all be here to see how it goes won't we?
I risk being labeled a troll for this next link, so know before hand I am not implying the X1000 will never come out. I just want to give you a tiny bit of perspective of history you missed.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29050&highlight=vapor
Enjoy!
Hmm, that list has not been updated in several years...
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I risk being labeled a troll for this next link,
:lol:
That has to win the award for the most subtle trolling ever!!!
I'm not going to say you are vaporware.... No way!! Not in a highly emotionally charged thread...
But.. and this is just for historical perspective mind you, I will include this link to vaporware hardware, not that I am in any way implying you might be...
It's just an off-topic link... No reason for anyone to take offense there..
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Wow, that was a trolling of beauty!!!!
:laughing:
desiv
(So, was this the "if they're going to accuse me of being a troll, I might as well do it" post??? Because, I didn't think you were trolling before. No question here tho..)
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:lol:
That has to win the award for the most subtle trolling ever!!!
I'm not going to say you are vaporware.... No way!! Not in a highly emotionally charged thread...
But.. and this is just for historical perspective mind you, I will include this link to vaporware hardware, not that I am in any way implying you might be...
It's just an off-topic link... No reason for anyone to take offense there..
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Wow, that was a trolling of beauty!!!!
:laughing:
desiv
(So, was this the "if they're going to accuse me of being a troll, I might as well do it" post??? Because, I didn't think you were trolling before. No question here tho..)
Err, were you paying attention to who I posted it for and what had been discussed before? This is a user who by his own admission has been away from the platform since 1997 and missed all of the negatives.
Think what you want, but if I have something negative to say about the X1000 I will say it outright.
-Edit-
I see you registered in October 2009, that also explains a lot...
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Err, were you paying attention to who I posted it for and what had been discussed before? This is a user who by his own admission has been away from the platform since 1997 and missed all of the negatives.
Think what you want, but if I have something negative to say about the X1000 I will say it outright.
-Edit-
I see you registered in October 2009, that also explains a lot...
Nice read, don't worry i don't think you are a troll :)
My feeling is that we have a change of pace/intentions/motivation in the OS4 dev camp, but as I said already, we are here, facts will tells us how it goes "this" time.
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Err, were you paying attention to who I posted it for and what had been discussed before? This is a user who by his own admission has been away from the platform since 1997 and missed all of the negatives.
Think what you want, but if I have something negative to say about the X1000 I will say it outright.
Oh, so if you are dealing with someone who is a problem, then you can say what you want and it's not trolling???
-Edit-
I see you registered in October 2009, that also explains a lot...
And what exactly does that mean??? :confused: As I said, I didn't think you were trolling before, but I thought that last comment was (IMHO) trolling...
But I didn't realize that a moderator on this forum should be able to treat users differently because they only recently joined... Apparently, I'm not "in the club"?
Before, I thought you were just upset about being called a troll when you weren't and reacting.. Not anymore..
That won't be a problem anymore....
desiv
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But I didn't realize that a moderator on this forum should be able to treat users differently because they only recently joined... Apparently, I'm not "in the club"?
desiv
Dont waste your breath, Im considered beneath everyone cause I have a "low standing" here. What ever the hell that means.
On topic, guess we will all have to wait and see with regards to the X1000.
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Oh, so if you are dealing with someone who is a problem, then you can say what you want and it's not trolling???
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And what exactly does that mean??? :confused: As I said, I didn't think you were trolling before, but I thought that last comment was (IMHO) trolling...
But I didn't realize that a moderator on this forum should be able to treat users differently because they only recently joined... Apparently, I'm not "in the club"?
Before, I thought you were just upset about being called a troll when you weren't and reacting.. Not anymore..
That won't be a problem anymore....
desiv
The person I replied to didn't think I was trolling, yet you still do? BTW there is no "the club" and I wasn't implying as much. It simply meant you probably missed the history too, but many of us here lived it. You missed my point entirely and you continue to miss it. Think what you want, you obviously have your mind made up.
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Starting to get way off topic but here is my 2c and just for the record i have been around for years and years just never reg until 2007.
I build Computer/Servers and Networks for a living (yes i know u don't want to here it but a bit of background is ok...:D), anyway from a Tech stand point this system is so over prices i can build a Mega system for cheaper then this price so let say its not meant for normal humans and if its a Hobby its not meant for many hobbyist and if its for developers then its meant for only really Die hard ones and even if this is the first batch how much cheaper will the others be (if there is anyone else after this batch that wants to buy them) the question is who and how many people was it meant for i am still trying to figure that one out.
Point is Old technology at very very new technology prices, can i afford one hell yes i can afford a few in my Amiga fund BUT i wont buy it, it not on my radar and wont be. LOL i rather hope for and buy Natami/FPGA Arcade and a few others before this. If you going to take the time to make something why make it with old technology i don't get it i can't sell 4 month old computers to clients and tell them there top of the range so why are they thinking that we will fall for it?
Anyway wish them luck to whom ever they are targeting this system to but i will not be me or anyone i know around me here is Sydney.
That my 2 sec and i will shut up now. and do try stay on topic although i have had fun reading some of the posts here..... :)
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Is there a severe shortage of lithium these days? I would think Amiga users would be excited about the X1000, even if it is way over priced. The high price is nothing new for new Amiga computers.
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New Amiga? hmmmmmm maybe in name, Amiga was cutting edge when it was introduced what i see here is expensive old technology at 6 core prices. To me it just doesn't feel like an Amiga, it look like any other PC/Mac around at the moment in truth i am far more excited about FPGA Arcade/Natami and other projects then this. what can this do that my Quad core at work or home cant using win 7, what is there to make me want to beg for a X1000... nothing i wish i can think otherwise but it comes down to another PC/Mac look alike with an Amiga name sorry but this does get my juice flowing or anything else for that matter.
I can build dozens of computer that look better, faster and a more personalized then this "Amiga" and that using store bought MB/HDD and graphics cards. All it has in OS4..... not really a point to spend any amount of money on....
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New Amiga? hmmmmmm maybe in name, Amiga was cutting edge when it was introduced what i see here is expensive old technology at 6 core prices. To me it just doesn't feel like an Amiga, it look like any other PC/Mac around at the moment in truth i am far more excited about FPGA Arcade/Natami and other projects then this. what can this do that my Quad core at work or home cant using win 7, what is there to make me want to beg for a X1000... nothing i wish i can think otherwise but it comes down to another PC/Mac look alike with an Amiga name sorry but this does get my juice flowing or anything else for that matter.
I can build dozens of computer that look better, faster and a more personalized then this "Amiga" and that using store bought MB/HDD and graphics cards. All it has in OS4..... not really a point to spend any amount of money on....
Amiga was cutting edge... for a few years (they had better used Ranger in the A500 no questions about it, poor J.Miner). From your avatar I presume you are a cassic afficionado that thought about Amiga as a game console, however after C= screwed up (being late with new chip-sets) and the world changed (migrated to more powerful off the shelf graphics processing units), Amiga became a professional workstation for media authoring (and little more).
Those that grew up professionally with it like the idea of a new AmigaOS based workstation, and since the world has changed since then, it is a no brainer the latter will reflect just that (with some added xena spice).
For game loving people, all Amiga game creators offer the goods on PS3/X360.
As for your building capabilities, they are very welcome in amigaland, why don't you show us a MOBO design you made (or make right now) for AmigaOS, there will be many persons interested if it's as interesting as you say.
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Actually you assume wrong i was a programmer first and tinker second i just have that avatar as i couldn't find one better and i am lazy. :D
I don't design motherboards i just make computers and from my stand point why should i pay for something that cost more and doesn't do all i want? could your X1000 out perform my 2 yo quad core with 4GB of ram and a ATI 5870??? my point is if it was a world beater then i would buy one but it isn't its an average spec machine with a high price tag (maybe later it will be cheaper) but its not an Intel I7 980X or AMD X6.
I really do wish you luck but i think you went for a very weird middle ground in pricing and in specs for this PC (yes PC which means personal computer.....) and like i said it just doesn't grab me by the Ba*** and shake me to rush out and buy one.
Good luck and all the best with the X1000 i do hope you sell all of them and make a profit.
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Actually you assume wrong i was a programmer first and tinker second i just have that avatar as i couldn't find one better and i am lazy. :D
I don't design motherboards i just make computers and from my stand point why should i pay for something that cost more and doesn't do all i want? could your X1000 out perform my 2 yo quad core with 4GB of ram and a ATI 5870??? my point is if it was a world beater then i would buy one but it isn't its an average spec machine with a high price tag (maybe later it will be cheaper) but its not an Intel I7 980X or AMD X6.
I really do wish you luck but i think you went for a very weird middle ground in pricing and in specs for this PC (yes PC which means personal computer.....) and like i said it just doesn't grab me by the Ba*** and shake me to rush out and buy one.
Good luck and all the best with the X1000 i do hope you sell all of them and make a profit.
Fine :)
There is also people that is willing to support the dream of having (in the near future) a usable Amiga home computer (could be MOS or AROS not just AOS) and "dream", at least at home, to avoid using Windows.
That dream pass through different steps (any NG format has its own different paradigm/approach), but the good thing is, I see exciting developments on all camps, which will definitely bring good fruits down the line (even cheaper but powerful machines as far as AOS is concerned).
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New Amiga? hmmmmmm maybe in name, Amiga was cutting edge when it was introduced what i see here is expensive old technology at 6 core prices. To me it just doesn't feel like an Amiga, it look like any other PC/Mac around at the moment in truth i am far more excited about FPGA Arcade/Natami and other projects then this. what can this do that my Quad core at work or home cant using win 7, what is there to make me want to beg for a X1000... nothing i wish i can think otherwise but it comes down to another PC/Mac look alike with an Amiga name sorry but this does get my juice flowing or anything else for that matter.
I can build dozens of computer that look better, faster and a more personalized then this "Amiga" and that using store bought MB/HDD and graphics cards. All it has in OS4..... not really a point to spend any amount of money on....
I keep reading "what can this do that my PC can't". It is quite simple, this can run OS4. Your PC can't.
It is up to you to decide if this is the "killer app" for you or not. Fact remains, your PC can't run it.
Oh, and Amiga wasn't always cutting edge. No way could the A1200, A4000 or CD32 be called cutting edge.
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Very True and look i do hope you sell heaps but for me i wish the specs were better, then i would buy one. Hopefully when you make the next version it will be either more powerful (then i don't mind spending the money) or cheaper.
I don't really follow any camp and at the same time i follow all (i have heaps of system that i love to mess around with and put all the Different AOS on them).
Can't wait to see what will happen in the next year or so should be very interesting.
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Very True and look i do hope you sell heaps but for me i wish the specs were better, then i would buy one. Hopefully when you make the next version it will be either more powerful (then i don't mind spending the money) or cheaper.
I don't really follow any camp and at the same time i follow all (i have heaps of system that i love to mess around with and put all the Different AOS on them).
Can't wait to see what will happen in the next year or so should be very interesting.
Which is the attitude I wish there was more of round here.
Nothing wrong with some constructive criticism. You recognise that this is hopefully a first step to something either more affordable, more powerful, or let's dream - both!
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ajlwalker
and what does OS4 do that is so special? that can't be on on my PC. i like OS4 but it's a hobby OS for me.
Everyone and I include were referring to the A1000 launch since that was the start of Amiga and it was way ahead of its time, and since references in it name and other places refer to the A1000 why shouldn't i compare them. i have never mentioned any other Amiga and your wrong the CD32 was ahead in the console market for its time..
Comes down to Average Spec high price where is the bang for the buck?????
In your response to you claim that the other Amiga's where not cutting edge but except for the A4000 the other were much cheaper then what is on offer today even in 1990's terms.
This is a hobbyist computer but they have priced it out of reach of the large majority if you want to spend that kind of money then go right ahead i am not stopping you.
My hope is they make a better or cheaper version next time around
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ajlwalker
and what does OS4 do that is so special? that can't be on on my PC. i like OS4 but it's a hobby OS for me.
Everyone and I include were referring to the A1000 launch since that was the start of Amiga and it was way ahead of its time, and since references in it name and other places refer to the A1000 why shouldn't i compare them. i have never mentioned any other Amiga and your wrong the CD32 was ahead in the console market for its time..
Comes down to Average Spec high price where is the bang for the buck?????
In your response to you claim that the other Amiga's where not cutting edge but except for the A4000 the other were much cheaper then what is on offer today even in 1990's terms.
This is a hobbyist computer but they have priced it out of reach of the large majority if you want to spend that kind of money then go right ahead i am not stopping you.
My hope is they make a better or cheaper version next time around
I believe that what he meant was that those Amiga he mentioned were loved for other reasons not because they were cutting edge.
AmigaOS4 for YOU does nothing I'm sure, but this machine is not aimed at classic users with an interest in the platform. Trevor Dickinson spoke many times at amigaworld.net and it is clear he and his friend (a partner with which he invested in a lot of successful venture before) are not willing to put in the kind of money needed for a mainstream machine (you need to order several tens of thousands pieces which are HUGE money) untill they evolve the platform and test the "pulse" of it all.
The X1000 is mainly aimed at developers and AOS4 aficionados with deep pockets, potentially more appealing machines might come down the line, so stay tuned :) (and in the mean time why don't you try a cheaper option?)
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LOL you mean Sam or others No thanks i will wait until you make a better one.. :D
or Natami or FPGA Arcade come out (actually i have put aside money for all 3 plus some C64 stuff). It true i don't use any of the AOS for day to day stuff BUT i would like to when they can offer the Apps i need and are more mature.
But at least we are living in these very interesting time can't wait for everything to come to fruition.
Good luck with everything and keep us posted. In all fairness i am not against this system and i never have been my only issue is its pricing and specs.
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LOL you mean Sam or others No thanks i will wait until you make a better one.. :D
or Natami or FPGA Arcade come out (actually i have put aside money for all 3 plus some C64 stuff). It true i don't use any of the AOS for day to day stuff BUT i would like to when they can offer the Apps i need and are more mature.
But at least we are living in these very interesting time can't wait for everything to come to fruition.
Good luck with everything and keep us posted. In all fairness i am not against this system and i never have been my only issue is its pricing and specs.
FYI I'm not part of the development team, just a fan speaking here :)
Anyway, I actually meant AROS or MorphOS ;)
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:D which i use too like i said before i like all the AOS and don't side with any camp but the same applies to them as OS4. it really time i shut up i haven't talked this much in months and months!!!!
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I haven't owned an Amiga since I sold my 4000 in the mid nineties but do check in a couple of times a week.
As much as i'd like a new one (and can afford £1500), it's just too expensive.
Great to see new hardware (& some innovation again) , but it harks back to the days when A2000's cost an arm and a leg.... the market has changed to the point that laptops & desktops are almost throwaway items.
We would have loved to have stocked this in the shop but it's not 1989 anymore.
Here's hoping they get their costs down and it becomes affordable.
your rigth its not 1989, its 2010 and when your a new company and order spesific hw made in low quantity it will cost an arm and a leg regardless of the year your in.
if you want it and have the money you should buy it, its notthing to sit on the fence for, its after all the best amiga ever released and you dont have to upgrade every 3 year as the pc. if you want it and dont have the money right now, then you can save up a year or two, it aint worse than that. while you wait the aos will also mature more, its a win win anyway how you see it.
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your rigth its not 1989, its 2010 and when your a new company and order spesific hw made in low quantity it will cost an arm and a leg regardless of the year your in.
if you want it and have the money you should buy it, its notthing to sit on the fence for, its after all the best amiga ever released and you dont have to upgrade every 3 year as the pc. if you want it and dont have the money right now, then you can save up a year or two, it aint worse than that. while you wait the aos will also mature more, its a win win anyway how you see it.
Waiting two years to save up will probably not be likely as it's highly improbable that A-Eon will survive. This machine may have an absurdly high failure rate as well. Suppose A-Eon goes under after a year and only 200 boards were made and 25% of them failed. What's the motivation for Hyperion to even continue supporting it? What's the likely hood they'll actually deliver support for everything on the board in that scenario? There are a *LOT* of reasons to be on the fence right now.
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Waiting two years to save up will probably not be likely as it's highly improbable that A-Eon will survive. This machine may have an absurdly high failure rate as well. Suppose A-Eon goes under after a year and only 200 boards were made and 25% of them failed. What's the motivation for Hyperion to even continue supporting it? What's the likely hood they'll actually deliver support for everything on the board in that scenario? There are a *LOT* of reasons to be on the fence right now.
Do Varisys have a 25% failure rate then?
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This machine may have an absurdly high failure rate as well.
What gives you the expectation that Varisys ( http://www.varisys.co.uk/ ) will likely output that high a percentage of defective product?
What's the motivation for Hyperion to even continue supporting it?
They've married their company name to the product. The most loyal and ardent AmigaOS 4 fans will be the owners of X-1000s for the most part. If they piss off that group, they sign their own death warrant.
What's the likely hood they'll actually deliver support for everything on the board in that scenario?
Nobody ever thought the Peg2 would run AOS 4.x, but it does. And thats not even a machine they were associated with. Why would they not seek to support as many features as they could on the X1000 even if it had low sales? Whats the alternative? Never advance to 64 bit? Never go multi-core? Those are the things that would make users want to eventually upgrade their SAMs anyway.
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I don't care about the price in deciding if I want one or not. I definitely want one.
That said, I'm not sure I'd be able to convince the wife on such a purchase, even if the whole package was only US$1000. Maybe I should start a stealth savings account. :) But it'd still take a long time to stealthily save up very much.