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Author Topic: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?  (Read 5791 times)

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Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« on: August 12, 2019, 11:58:44 AM »
Composite isn't really that bad at all. Try it, you might like it. When I first had my A1200, I used RF for quite a while... before I realised my tv had a Composite Video input on the back. I survived with RF so I'm sure you'll survive with Composite.  :)
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2019, 11:49:55 AM »
Ok, I'll just go the composite route then. Now my next question(s)...will the composite output of the 1200 automatically "turn off" when a non-15KHz mode is displayed (e.g. my Workbench screen is Productivity mode)? Or will the 1080 show a scrambled screen?

Also, is there a way to have all 15HKz modes display solely on the 1080 and all the non-15KHz modes display solely via RGB/VGA? Would really like as seamless a "dual display" setup as possible.

The composite output won't turn off and it will display a scrambled screen on a 15KHz monitor. What you could do is either turn the monitor off when this happens (it definitely won't do it any good keep turning it on and off), or unplug the composite output from the back of the Amiga every time, or, install a switch somewhere on the cable that turns the signal on/off. Some monitors may have a video channel selection switch so that could be pressed instead. The thing is, I wouldn't want both monitors on all of the time as it's wasting power anyway so I don't quite understand what your after. Also, those 15KHz CRT's have that whistle noise which would be very annoying if on and not being used.

The simple obvious solution is to just hook up the CRT to another Amiga so you can then pick which one you want to use. Alternatively, hook them up to the same machine and edit your Startup-sequence so that holding down the left mouse button boots into a games launcher in a 15KHz mode (TinyLauncher for example), and holding down the right mouse button boots into Workbench in a 15Khz mode (for your graphics applications). If you boot without holding any mouse buttons down then you get your normal 31KHz Workbench for your NEC LCD screen. This saves all the fiddling about, and it's what I'd do.

What you don't want to do is to accidentally display these non 15KHz modes on a 15KHz monitor because it's not supposed to be particularly good for them.  :) So, in your 15KHz Workbench boot option (RMB) you'll want to make sure you only have the PAL/NTSC/Euro36 driver in Devs/Monitors. Of course, taking this further there will be some of your software configured for the higher resolution 31KHz modes and these save their settings somewhere (usually ENVARC:) so you could have an alternative ENV with these 15KHz settings for when you boot with the RMB pressed down (I'm talking besides the obvious screenmode.prefs which would have to be switched).

Or, you could have different boot partition for 15KHz. There is a little shell program that can change the boot partition priorities, so this could be used with the mouse detection at the beginning of the Startup-sequence and cause a reboot into the 15KHz Workbench. Of course it will remember it, so you'd have in your sequence either something that reverts it back to your preferred boot (31KHz) or detect the buttons again at the beginning. For example, you might forget which mode you left it on....well, it doesn't matter really, just boot up and hold down both mouse buttons together and it'll boot into 31KHz. You can even detect a joystick press, or a key combination instead. It's all on Aminet, and your options are endless in what you can achieve.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:13:12 PM by paul1981 »
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 12:51:53 PM »
Ok, so the 1080 arrived and I hooked it up to the 1200 via composite. However, after some fiddling with the front controls of the monitor, I'm only able to display in B&W. Any ideas what could be wrong? (and yes, I've fiddled with the color knob)

Is your A1200 PAL and you are in the USA? The composite and RF from the A1200 will be PAL and the two colour systems are incompatible. If the 1080 has a RGB style input on the back then I suppose you'll have to use a VGA type monitor switch or something. Or, adding an Indivision will give you another RGB output,  but it seems overkill doesn't it.
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2019, 11:15:59 AM »
Yes, the 1200 is a PAL unit, but I thought the 1080 was capable of displaying both NTSC and PAL modes. If it were an NTSC television that I was connecting, I could understand that explanation, but not sure I understand why that would matter with a monitor that can otherwise show the mode.

It can display 50Hz and 60Hz, but to support both PAL and NTSC would require more circuitry so I suppose they only manufacture these monitors for one or the other to cut costs. Of course, these monitors (Amiga compatible 15KHz types) were used for video work too and it's highly unlikely a user would require both PAL and NTSC as their video equipment would either be PAL or NTSC. I might be talking rubbish for all I know but that's my educated guess.
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 12:06:25 PM »
I have indivision and it seems to overide the rgb port so you get no signal out of it.

Does it mention this in the manual? I wasn't aware. So the IndiAGA version cuts off the RGB port but the IndiECS doesn't?
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 08:10:49 PM »
Could be a difference between the Indivision 1200 Mk.I and Mk.II regarding the disablement of the video port? Someone must know a definitive answer here. I was under the impression the video output port wasn't affected.
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 06:47:23 PM »
I'm almost certain you can't make a PAL amiga into an NTSC amiga or vice versa without replacing the RF-Composite circuitry. They are different systems, besides having slightly different clocks and the 50/60Hz issue (or non issue, because as mentioned, monitors will display 50/60Hz anyway).
As for the dual screen with the Indivision, I really thought that Amigakit would have given us a hand here as they have been dealing with them for years and years. Hello AmigaKit? Are you there?  ;D
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 11:29:28 AM »
Back in the day If you wanted full color composite from the A500 or the A2000 you needed an A520 (the NTSC and PAL A520 are different units and not compatible) or some type of genlock.

Exactly, the PAL/NTSC circuitry is still different when built into the motherboards too.  ;)
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2019, 12:17:30 AM »
Has anyone ever used a switch box like that to drive two Amiga displays? Or would this not be doable due to the Amiga's sensitivity to hot-swapping?

No, never used one. Isn't hot swapping only a problem if you're a clumsy git and short out signals to the edge of the connector?  ;D
The one you linked too looks cheap enough, and if it doesn't work couldn't you send it back anyway for a refund?
 

Offline paul1981

Re: CRT and VGA displays simultaneously on stock A1200?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 07:49:05 PM »
Revisiting this...

So I think I will likely go the DB25 switch box route, but would something like this also do the trick?...

https://www.amazon.com/DB25-Female-Male-Cable/dp/B0743YH9TZ/   (This would be preferable as both monitors could then display simultaneously as needed, vs. one or the other with the switch box.)

With either method, I plan on slicing off two pins and part of the DB25 connectors so that the DB23 Amiga connectors fit. Does it matter which two pins (left or right side) get the axe?

No, but you'd have to cut the same side off of all three plugs of course. I'm not sure what happens about loading the video output with two monitors, whether there'd be degradation.

EDIT: Before you do any cuts, might be best to check with an ohm meter!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 07:56:44 PM by paul1981 »