C(++), OpenGL and coding demos

[Mr_Capehill]

Is the StormMesa material somewhere to download? H&P seemed to remove the links...

AFAIK, StormMesa uses Warp3D for HW acceleration.

I am also starting to learn OpenGL...Now if H-J and T would drop a line or two here
 ;-)

[Allen]

Here is my opinion.

There is a vast difference between C/C++ on Amiga and the Visual C/C++ on the PC.

As someone said before this is primarily to do with differrent libraries and stuff but, IMHO also to do with how easy it is to use.

The Amiga has got some decent C++ compilers such as GCC and look into using VBCC for your C projects, it is much better than StormC.  Although both VBCC and GCC are CLI based.

Visual C++ is quirky and can be annoying, although you probably know this I am just telling you what I think so you can get an idea of how I think, in its layout and can be counter intuitive but is leagues ahead of anything on the Amiga.

As for programming OpenGL.

On the PC look @ NeHe's pages they are brilliant.  However they are in straight C and often use out dated methods which can be limiting.  I have written a open GL window class which you are more than welcome to use/look at/copy/flame etc for your own projects.  This class sets up an OpenGL compliant Window and WndProc ready for you to stick in your drawing routines and will help you get into OpenGL fast  I know they are many variants on the NeHe site but my class is a little bit cleaner and you might find it easier to understand (not that I am the best coder or anything etc.. ).

On the Amiga, ditch any ideas of using Warp3D/MESA and go for miniGL.  I have a yahoo group called minigl.  Join up and look at some of the code they have made.  Again I can give you some code to get you started they too.  It is a much better "wrapper" and you will be amazed at what your Amiga (and those friendly mingl coders) can do.

In closing, I have found the Amiga miniGL implementation to be the best way of learning about OpenGL as I know more about the environment than I did the PC, but, miniGL is just that, a mini version of OpenGL and is missing some fundemental things, lights etc...

Anyhow enough rambling get on with coding!!

Good luck.

Feel free to contact me about anything to do with OpenGL/miniGL.  I am NOT an expert but have trod the path you are about to start so I may be of some use.

Allen

[z5]

Well, thanks for the replies.

@Allen:
Many thanks. I'll keep it in mind for sure. I think i will start with the NeHe turorials which seem to be explained quite well. I'll use Visual C++ for now i think. But one day, i hope to code for OS4/AOne (if it appears ofcourse)

If i run into troubles or have questions, i'll keep your name in mind  ;-)

[Sidewinder]

I found this book a decent introduction to Object Oriented programming in C++.  It's a free on-line book.

Interesting. Are you saying that intros like The Castle (which seems so optimised for Amiga) contains C-code also?

The Castle consists of about 200kb c++  and 100kb asm source (and remember that asm takes more sourcecode for the same). All the highlevel engine stuff and all the precalcing (lightmap raytracer, texture generator, sound generator etc) are in c++, while the all the lowlevel rendering, c2ps, and some generic engine stuff is in asm. In other words, if we had a hardware renderer, almost nothing would be asm.

Also, what software do you use, generally speaking, to develop an Amiga demo from start to finish. (compilers, paint, sound). Any names of tools, software?.

I use StormC3 / PhxAsm / GoldED6 for the coding. StormGCC creates slightly faster code, but is imho compiling too slow on 68k, doesn't integrate too well with asm and I know how to make fast code in stormc3 anyway.... (and if speed is really important I'll beat any compiler any time in 060 asm)

ImageFx and AGAiff for graphics adjustments and converting.  

For the music playing we use TrackerPacker (+our sample generator) for intros and ThePlayer (or more recently our  mp3->adpcm converter and adpcm player) for demos.

Do you write your code on pc first? And how difficult would it be to port a demo you wrote on Amiga to pc or from pc to Amiga.

No, For software rendered demos I don't see much point in it and I'm pretty satisfied with the enviroment on my amiga, and I think I'm using msvc more than enough already .

However, for hardware rendered demos and with decent amiga hardware (that excludes powerup cards) we plan to do Windows/OS4 multiplatform demos, which should be pretty easy with a sufficiently comprehensive demosystem (basicly taking care of opening the gl context, music playing and file io)  
 

[Mr_Capehill]

Hi Psycho, keep on posting. It's interesting. Demos are like black magic or something for mortals  :-)

Now I wonder if anyone has made open-sourced full-sized productions?

I'm lucky to learn OpenGL stuff at my work. It should keep me motivated enough.

I really hope that we see some demos on new Amigas too. It's part of the magic that kept Amiga "alive"!

[z5]

Hi Psycho, keep on posting. It's interesting. Demos are like black magic or something for mortals

I agree. For me too, coders have always been some kind of magicians. I have very high respect for democoders. It must be extremely cool to be able to create a demo (and to break records like The Castle did on 68k).

So i find it very interesting to learn a bit from what goes behind the scenes.

Do you plan OS4 demos (if it is ever released ofcourse). How many years of coder experience do you have? Do you code for profession? And how long would it take learning to code a basic demo?

[Cymric]

psycho wrote:
snip... However, for hardware rendered demos and with decent amiga hardware (that excludes powerup cards) we plan to do Windows/OS4 multiplatform demos, which should be pretty easy with a sufficiently comprehensive demosystem (basicly taking care of opening the gl context, music playing and file io).

I must say I've not really kept up with the demo scene---their 'products' rather---after Commodore went down the drain. I wonder... Demos to me meant pulling off incredible graphical feats on (by today's standards) mediocre hardware. Think 'Hardwired', 'Nexus 9' or 'State of the Art' here. Nowadays, you have 3 GHz CPU's at your disposal, and all the 3D-stuff is now safely crated up in various publically available libraries (OpenGL, DirectX). Of course I've seen the 'demos' which come with 3D Mark, but to say I was picking my jaw up off the floor... No. Well, perhaps a little, but not to the extent as with my trusty 500. Perhaps I'm just spoilt. Nevertheless: what is left of squarely laughing the impossible in the face? :-P

P.S.: in case people are interested: The Funet archive still hosts a large collection of golden oldies. It's too bad I don't have a 500 or a 1200 anymore. I know what I would do with my broadband connection...