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Author Topic: MorphOS ahead of AROS?  (Read 27616 times)

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Offline MazzeTopic starter

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MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« on: April 03, 2012, 11:51:02 AM »
Hi,

I've read several times from the blue smurf propaganda department that MorphOS is so way ahead of AROS. Care to elaborate?

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 11:54:51 AM »
Do you have doubts? :)

It is years ahead and Aros is just alpha :laughing:

Hmmm when you want to know in detail why MorphOS is years ahead then there is the big silence...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:09:42 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 12:11:13 PM »
Indeed it is. Far less crashes, a much better method at backwards compatability, MUI just works, USB works (including writing to NTFS), the GUI (Ambient) is AMAZING!!!

I think the only thing AROS has that is fully worth mention is the 3DCard Support, but even most of the drivers have bugs and the screen flakes out.

But hey, AROS is free, if you are interested, download it, install it, and submit bug reports.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 12:16:57 PM »
I cannot compare the crashes or ambient with MorphOS because I do not have it (I use it on Kubuntu on a Notebook). It has also UAE integration (Janus-UAE), it can be combined with Linux, it offers X86 and ARM-Support (propably you forgot to mention...)
 

Offline itix

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 12:48:48 PM »
Quote from: Mazze;686743
Hi,

I've read several times from the blue smurf propaganda department that MorphOS is so way ahead of AROS. Care to elaborate?


/me says hello to Blue Smurf Mazze :)

Anyway, to me AROS is lacking on Wanderer, MUI and Intuition department. Zune requires more work to support all MUI3 features since it makes porting software to AROS bit cumbersome sometimes. I.e. basics like screennotify.library support is missing and Zune windows are not autoclosing when adjusting screen mode or window decorations.

I dont know if alpha blending blit calls or dos64 api is supported in AROS. 64-bit dos api is not that important. It has been in MorphOS for years but in the end most of time you dont need large file support.
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Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 12:53:51 PM »
Wanderer is one of the weak points and MUI-Support (Zune). There is a Scalos-port that i hope to test at easter and Zune-Update is in development. So I am sure that these issues will be solved.
 

Offline itix

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 12:57:23 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;686755
Wanderer is one of the weak points and MUI-Support (Zune). There is a Scalos-port that i hope to test at easter and Zune-Update is in development. So I am sure that these issues will be solved.

Lets discuss it when it is done. Scalos is OK (more advanced than Workbench and Wanderer) but certain problems dont go away until Intuition/Zune is updated.

Btw,
Quote
It has also UAE integration (Janus-UAE), it can be combined with Linux, it offers X86 and ARM-Support (propably you forgot to mention...)

This was why I was curious to try Icaros on my laptop but you have to buy Amiga Forever to use it. Until Amiga Forever dependency is replaced by Aros68k distribution I dont consider it very practical...

In the end installing Icaros is very easy but 68k support should be built-in without having to buy external software.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 01:01:00 PM by itix »
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Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 01:05:05 PM »
I have worked a lot in Aros 68k (but in WinUAE). I am right now finishing my Aros 68k distribution (hopefully at easter) and i know that both maintainers (icaros and AspireOS) plan to integrate it so this issue will also be solved in the near future. The combination aros 68k / kickstart replacement is of course not 100% compatible but a lot of programs (and games) work with it.
 

Offline itix

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 01:12:09 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;686758
I have worked a lot in Aros 68k (but in WinUAE). I am right now finishing my Aros 68k distribution (hopefully at easter) and i know that both maintainers (icaros and AspireOS) plan to integrate it so this issue will also be solved in the near future. The combination aros 68k / kickstart replacement is of course not 100% compatible but a lot of programs (and games) work with it.


I know. I am not so much interested on games because I can play old games on my Amiga 500. What is interesting to me is running some old 68k software I might need but then problem is that you can not mix 68k and AROS native libraries... and in fact if I install 68k software using Installer will it install files over AROS native files?

Nevertheless having some 68k integration in AROS is better than none ;-)
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Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 01:14:18 PM »
you can heavily mix both (68k, at least as long as you only add). replacing original aros libs can create problems of course (testing...)

I will integrate some recommendations what you can copy from the original files (f.e. narrator.device, Arexx...)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 01:16:19 PM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 01:16:12 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;686748
Indeed it is. Far less crashes, a much better method at backwards compatability, MUI just works, USB works (including writing to NTFS), the GUI (Ambient) is AMAZING!!!

I think the only thing AROS has that is fully worth mention is the 3DCard Support, but even most of the drivers have bugs and the screen flakes out.

But hey, AROS is free, if you are interested, download it, install it, and submit bug reports.


I completely agree, as does (probably) most people who has MorphOS experience coming in contact with AROS.

Anyway, since you already gave such a good answer, I'm going to dedicate my post entirely to speculations! :) Maybe the future way forward for MorphOS will be to abandon the integrated, seamless 68k emulation at some point, together with the ambition to maintain the API as tight to the original Amiga OS API as they do today, maybe changes will be necessary at some point, if you are to make a jump to a different architecture/ISA. While it would lead to some sacrifices (turning it more into AROS, but still more than that), it could also lead to many great things, like a better HW platform, true SMP, true MP, true 64-bit, etc.

Then you would have to run the old Amiga apps through UAE or whatever, like they do on AROS, maybe that will be good enough on a x86 machine (it's not much fun on PPC). It will be a completely different manner than what we are used to on MorphOS (or OS4) today, it won't be integrated, it wont be as seemless, it's a different philosophy on "Amiga backwards compatibility" altogether, but although the thought might be a bit shocking to us at first, it seems to be enough for AROS people? Anyway, it wouldn't stop by just becoming a new "AROS Copy", since most new (and most interesting) MorphOS SW are in PPC, and is still maintained and could probably be ported to a new MorphOS "v4.0" architecture without greater troubles. Some good SW has even been brought under the MorphOS Team's wings for integration into the MorphOS package, and I think this strategy might continue.

So MorphOS would (probably) still have most of its native SW stack available, but you would have to run Amiga apps in the AROS way. MorphOS will of course still have its unique polished look and feel, the same features (and  more), the feeling of a real, usable desktop, etc from MUI4, Ambient, etc, not anything like AROS. And somehow I doubt the MorphOS Team will ever settle with running MorphOS in some process on top of another OS (as they seem putting a lot of pride into building a complete OS themselves)? And as a result, it could have a better HW platform, true SMP, true MP, true 64-bit, etc, a package completely new to Amiga, a "2nd Next Generation" (meaning Third of course :lol:, "3D miga"), which neither AROS or OS4 could match. But who knows, these things are *highly* hypothetical speculations, and might not happen at all (though they have been suggested by some MorphOS developers as one of several plausible ways to a future). I guess we'll learn in time... :)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 01:19:55 PM »
Quote from: itix;686759
Nevertheless having some 68k integration in AROS is better than none ;-)


Maybe I misunderstood, but to me it sounds like a mish-mash of UAE emulation boxes...?
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 01:20:26 PM »
"and in fact if I install 68k software using Installer will it install files over AROS native files?" I do not understand. For software it is feeling like a normal 68k environment and it is no problem to install 68k software there. I do not know the 68k integration in Icaros but when it is similar to WinUAE then you work in your own environment and not mixing it with the X86 outside world.

You cannot destroy Windows by installing amiga-software. All other concepts would be extremely dangerous. You cannot mix X86 and 68k libs.
 

Offline danwood

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Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 01:40:17 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;686762
Maybe I misunderstood, but to me it sounds like a mish-mash of UAE emulation boxes...?


There does seem to be a lot of BS spread on this subject.  I was asking in the AROS irc channel lately if AROS supports integrated 68K emulation yet and was told yes, I was called a troll for asking if it was seamless/coherence mode or simply a UAE window popping up.  After a good 20 mins of being fed various round-the-houses explanations, from what I see it is simply a UAE window popping up with its own Workbench and the program loaded inside there.

It works like RuninUAE on OS4, but it's not the same as JIT integration in MOS/OS4.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: MorphOS ahead of AROS?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 01:41:30 PM »
Janus UAE is a fork of E-UAE and I have seen that installed on Mac. I think there is a misunderstanding. You do not mix f.e. X86 and 68k libs but you have a complete 68k install (the system libs are 68k versions from Aros). So there is no danger to destroy something by overwriting X86 (or PPC) system libs.