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Operating System Specific Discussions => MorphOS => MorphOS -- Application questions and support => Topic started by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 06:52:34 AM

Title: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 06:52:34 AM
I got an amazing deal on a dual 2GHz G5 with 3GB RAM and a monitor, so I'm checking out MorphOS for the first time.

I know next to nothing about MorphOS (long time Classic Amiga user though), but I hope to give some constructive feedback from the perspective of a noob while I learn.

I got it installed and poked around, but that's about it. I did google to find out that OWB was a web browser (not obvious at all) and even managed to play YouTube videos, which surprised the hell out of me!

I have a million and one questions and see next to nothing on their website about what to do after you get it installed and paid for.

What can I expect to run on the system? I've heard some system friendly Amiga 68k software works, but that's about all I know.

What are some common things that I will want to install?

When it installed, it made one 2GB and one 127GB partition. Can I use the rest of the drive safely?

Is Samba available and how horrific is the setup? (I had it working as both client and server back in the 90's, but I'm too old for that anymore)

Whatcha got for my new adventure?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: KimmoK on September 25, 2014, 07:08:18 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773839
....

I'm on the same boat, noob with MorphOS.  Looks good, but a lot to learn.

a few links to look:
http://library.morphzone.info/Main_Page
http://library.morphzone.info/Links#Software
http://morphosuser.wordpress.com/

(hoping to have fun and be productive with 68k & aos4 & multiple morphOS systems ... also if I manage to get AROS running well on one of my 10 x86 devices one day, will use it as well)



(((not exactly on topic, but ... I would love to see AROS distros for old HW  and/or for HW without 3D. Currently it seems distros have a lot of stuff that simply crash the system. ... Yes... buying prebuilt  AROS system would be the solution for 300eur or so. For memory refresh, what's the recommended/official forum for AROS talk/support?)))
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 07:15:00 AM
Quote from: KimmoK;773840
I'm on the same boat, noob with MorphOS.  Looks good, but a lot to learn.


Yeah, I'm super impressed with the presentation so far.

The install was smooth and simple, but I removed the Mac hard drive just out of paranoia. I guess I'll need to figure out dual booting at some point.

Thanks for the links
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Rob on September 25, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
Most system friendly 68k software works.  Just try and see what does and doesn't.  There's also a JIT enabled UAE port for MorphOS too so you should get a decent turn of speed out of hardware banging software too.

http://morphos-files.net/index2.php
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: danwood on September 25, 2014, 11:00:26 AM
If you want a simple starting point (with Samba all set up for you).  Install Chrysalis Pack, gives you loads of programs too:

http://www.warmup-asso.org/download/pack/chrysalis.iso

Download, right click on it and select Mount, then run.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
If you need some hints and tips, please tell me. I don't really know anymore what is new and unusual for a classic user. If there is something I can write about on my blog, I will. It is geared torwards new and inexperienced users like myself :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: Yasu;773861
If you need some hints and tips, please tell me. I don't really know anymore what is new and unusual for a classic user. If there is something I can write about on my blog, I will. It is geared torwards new and inexperienced users like myself :)


Kimmok: Those links are a really good starting point, thanks. I even bumped into Yasu's blog and spent a long time there. Good stuff! I definitely need to subscribe.

Rob: UAE is definitely on my list. I didn't realize there was a JIT yet.

danwood: Is Chrysalis Pack a newer version of Pack Ultimate that I've seen mentioned elsewhere or something different?

Once I get a pretty good setup configured I can't wait to get the SDK installed and start developing on it.  I think I might be able to ditch the Windows/WinUAE setup I've been working with previously plus test the 68k Amiga executable directly on MorphOS.

This may be a little off topic, but I never realized how much like Amithlon MorphOS can be. It's not x86, but other than that, it seems like it will fill the same gap for me.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions later tonight when I can get back in front of it.

Oh, nobody answered the question about how much of my hard drive I can use. What are the limitations?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: trekiej on September 25, 2014, 04:15:12 PM
Here is an iso to download.

http://www.morphos-team.net/downloads
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: trekiej;773870
Here is an iso to download.

http://www.morphos-team.net/downloads


Thanks, but I installed it before I posted.

Now I'm just testing the waters before I decide to register it or not.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to though.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 04:51:58 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by "use the redt of the drive safely". FFS is really stable and you can make as many partitions as you like. FFS can handle up to 127 GB.

I would recommend though that you make your system drive a little bigger. Like 10 GB just in case. I myself have 50 GB, but that's because I like to have my programs in my SYS drive. It let the HDD not having to jump around all the time.

Pach Chrysalis is the same as Pack Ultimate. I like it a lot, even if it's not always reliable. But you also need to get Grunch. It's probably the most important program for MorphOS there is :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: Yasu;773873
I'm not really sure what you mean by "use the redt of the drive safely". FFS is really stable and you can make as many partitions as you like. FFS can handle up to 127 GB.


The smallest SATA drive I found in my pile of parts was 250GB and the installer defaulted to a 2GB and a 127GB partition, leaving the rest unused.

I know that on real Amigas, you can lose data if you exceed the limitations of the controller, driver or filesystem so I left it at that.

Can I add another partition without losing data?

What filesystems work best with MorphOS?

Can I use a larger drive and if so, how big can it handle?

What are the limitations on the size of files? I work in video, so I've got single video files my home NAS that are over 40GB each and might want to play one some day.

Quote

I would recommend though that you make your system drive a little bigger. Like 10 GB just in case. I myself have 50 GB, but that's because I like to have my programs in my SYS drive. It let the HDD not having to jump around all the time.


2GB did seem a little small, but it suggested 2GB unless you knew what you were doing. I didn't ;)

Quote

Pach Chrysalis is the same as Pack Ultimate. I like it a lot, even if it's not always reliable. But you also need to get Grunch. It's probably the most important program for MorphOS there is :)


Grunch is that package manager you mentioned in your blog, right? That did seem like a nice thing to have.

How is it not always reliable?

Thanks,
John
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 05:33:28 PM
1. Yes, you can use the unused space with HDToolbox. No limitations AFAIK.

2. The standard FFS works best. But you can also read and write other standard formats like FAT32 without problem. You can also read NTFS, but not write. There is a way to use larger partitions by using iceFS but it's still not reliable so I don't recommend it.

3. 2 GB used to be the limitation with FFS, but I think it can handle bigger nowadays. Not sure though.

4. You can read big USB HDD drives if you want to watch the movies.

5. It does, but I still think 2 GB isn't enough. So I recommend a reinstall :)

6. Pack Chrysalis makes a lot of changes and tweaks that doesn't always work well. But I still recommend it for new users.

7. Yep, that's Grunch :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: danwood on September 25, 2014, 07:00:16 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773869
danwood: Is Chrysalis Pack a newer version of Pack Ultimate that I've seen mentioned elsewhere?

Yes, it has pretty much all the must-have Morphos software included, all set up for you.  Including Grunch, one click install.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: danwood on September 25, 2014, 07:02:28 PM
Quote from: Yasu;773877

6. Pack Chrysalis makes a lot of changes and tweaks that doesn't always work well. But I still recommend it for new users.


I've never had any problems with it.  In the latest version he's stopped changing as many Ambient settings etc. so it should be a lot better, it's mainly just the software set-up now.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 07:15:50 PM
@danwood

Good move! The 3.5 version had a lot of issues so it's good that is fixed. My installation is from 3.2 and I've only updated with Grunch since :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: SACC-guy on September 25, 2014, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773842
Yeah, I'm super impressed with the presentation so far.

The install was smooth and simple, but I removed the Mac hard drive just out of paranoia. I guess I'll need to figure out dual booting at some point.

Thanks for the links
There was a tutorial for dual booting...I can find it's url?
I used it on my mac mini and it worked fine. Have to use the alt key at bootup to select which OS.

M
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: itix on September 25, 2014, 07:35:16 PM
http://dreamolers.binaryriot.org/dualboot.pdf

I recommend making boot partition larger than 2GB. Personally I gave up using traditional he setp where the system and applications are on separate partitions. I just install everything to the system partition.

FFS and SFS have 127 GB partition size limit, PFS 104 GB. Using larger hard disks than that is fine, though.

SFS and PFS have decent repair programs so they might be better in that respect than FFS.

IceFS (http://blubbedev.net/icefs/) is only native file system with large file support and supports larger partitions than just 127 GB. NTFS etc support large files.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Stevo on September 25, 2014, 07:39:17 PM
...and don't forget the rather excellent IceFS:

http://blubbedev.net/icefs/
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 08:05:43 PM
I tested iceFS once and got read/write error after the first reboot.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: amigadave on September 25, 2014, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773875
What are the limitations on the size of files? I work in video, so I've got single video files my home NAS that are over 40GB each and might want to play one some day.

Unless you are splicing many low to medium resolution videos together, I am guessing that those 40GB+ video files are HD, or Blu-Ray ripped files, which to my knowledge, can't be played on MorphOS yet.  In fact, I don't think the PPC MacOSX can play Blu-Ray iso files either.

If you find out something different, then let me know.  I have been working on archiving all of my movies over the last year and I am interested in figuring out the best setup for storage and playback possibilities, without buying any expensive new hardware.

Congrats on getting your G5 PowerMac and enjoy your learning period on MorphOS.  I personally think it is the best Amiga inspired alternative, unless you are only interested in playing old 68k games, then you are better off just using the real thing, or if you no longer have a Classic Amiga, using UAE.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 08:34:29 PM
@amigadave

It might work. I can play true HD movies in H264 MP4 comprimation on my 2.7 GHz Powermac G5. Not bad for a single core :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 25, 2014, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: amigadave;773896
Unless you are splicing many low to medium resolution videos together, I am guessing that those 40GB+ video files are HD, or Blu-Ray ripped files, which to my knowledge, can't be played on MorphOS yet.  In fact, I don't think the PPC MacOSX can play Blu-Ray iso files either.

If you find out something different, then let me know.  I have been working on archiving all of my movies over the last year and I am interested in figuring out the best setup for storage and playback possibilities, without buying any expensive new hardware.


I don't do ripped isos, but I have a lot of HD and SD video in other formats. Mostly h.264 and mpeg2 in various containers (mov, m2ts, mp4, mpg, mkv).

I haven't looked into what's available for playback yet, but I assumed there was a player for for those, if not a simple editor.

Quote

Congrats on getting your G5 PowerMac and enjoy your learning period on MorphOS.  I personally think it is the best Amiga inspired alternative, unless you are only interested in playing old 68k games, then you are better off just using the real thing, or if you no longer have a Classic Amiga, using UAE.


Thanks, it seems fun so far, but I'm starting to wonder if there's anything for me to contribute. The ecosystem seems pretty damn good so far. I'm more of a developer than a user. When I use a computer, it's usually to browse and write code.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on September 25, 2014, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: itix;773888
FFS, SFS and PFS have 127 GB partition size limit. Using larger hard disks than that is fine, though.


PFS3's limit is 104GB.

Anyway, using default SFS is the easiest and most used filesystem on MorphOS. And you can  use many partitions to fill the whole HD if it's bigger than supported max partition size.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on September 25, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773899
I don't do ripped isos, but I have a lot of HD and SD video in other formats. Mostly h.264 and mpeg2 in various containers (mov, m2ts, mp4, mpg, mkv).

I haven't looked into what's available for playback yet, but I assumed there was a player for for those, if not a simple editor.

MPlayer is the best for video playback. Install it with Grunch (http://www.geit.de/eng_grunch.html) or get it directly from http://fabportnawak.free.fr/mplayer/

Quote
Thanks, it seems fun so far, but I'm starting to wonder if there's anything for me to contribute. The ecosystem seems pretty damn good so far. I'm more of a developer than a user. When I use a computer, it's usually to browse and write code.

Community will be very pleased of any coding effort :) There are gaps to fill still.
One place to start http://krashan.ppa.pl/mph/
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 09:12:57 PM
@Hieroglyph

MPlayer should play them without problem.

There is always something a coder could do. Maybe take up a bounty or two ;)

Go to MorphZone and ask where you can be of use. There will be something, I guarantee!
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: itix on September 25, 2014, 09:45:01 PM
Quote from: pVC;773903
PFS3's limit is 104GB.


Thanks. Didn't remember that.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 25, 2014, 11:01:27 PM
Ah yes, the standard file system is SFS, not FFS. Sorry.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Dr. Chef on September 26, 2014, 12:49:36 AM
OP, are you into games at all? I love the games by: Cherry Darling (Voxel Bird and Ace of Hearts). Voxel Bird is completely free (Flappy Bird style game but in 3d).

http://www.cherry-darling.net/

Also, if you want to use basic screen dragging, you can use Dragon. Lucy is for Transparent Windows.

http://amigazeux.net/dragon/req.php

http://amigazeux.org/index.php?module=News&type=user&func=display&sid=74
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: amigadave on September 26, 2014, 03:46:40 AM
Quote from: Yasu;773898
@amigadave

It might work. I can play true HD movies in H264 MP4 comprimation on my 2.7 GHz Powermac G5. Not bad for a single core :)

That is great to read and know.  I haven't tried to playback any HD content on MorphOS using MPlayer yet, other than an occasional 720p YouTube video.

I need to get myself back up to speed on the latest MorphOS info, before the 2014 AmiWest Show begins, so I can answer questions better.  I will be displaying MorphOS running on at least a couple of systems during the show for people to test it and see how great it is.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 05:44:13 AM
Quote from: Dr. Chef;773914
OP, are you into games at all? I love the games by: Cherry Darling (Voxel Bird and Ace of Hearts). Voxel Bird is completely free (Flappy Bird style game but in 3d).

http://www.cherry-darling.net/

Also, if you want to use basic screen dragging, you can use Dragon. Lucy is for Transparent Windows.

http://amigazeux.net/dragon/req.php

http://amigazeux.org/index.php?module=News&type=user&func=display&sid=74

I'm not that into games, but Dragon is interesting.


So I tried to install the Pack Chrysalis 3.7.1 on two different clean installs, but I get errors at startup.

Error 6 in line 124: Unterminated comment
Command returned 10/6

I don't see anything that tells me what has the error and I see nothing I could have done to cause it.

Any ideas or should I just write that pack off as crapware?

Edit: Ok, so I found crabum.rexx in the wbstartup folder and removing it makes that error go away.  I don't see anything noticable in line 127 though...

Edit 2: There WAS a missing ' a few lines up though.  Adding that seems to have fixed the issue.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on September 26, 2014, 05:56:03 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773923
Edit: Ok, so I found crabum.rexx in the wbstartup folder and removing it makes that error go away.  I don't see anything noticable in line 127 though...


Hmm... I don't remember if Chrysalis pack comes with working rexxsyslib.library or not. Although it doesn't sound exactly like an error because of it, but you could check if you have rexxsyslib.library in sys:libs/ (and renamed from use from mossys:libs/).

Check the details here (http://jpv.wmhost.com/morphos/tips/index.html) on tip #1

Anyway if you're into tuning the systems yourself for your taste, I'd go without Chrysalis pack, but if you want everything on the plate or want to check what's available, then the pack is ok.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 06:09:56 AM
Wow, OWB even works with my google drive!

Not only can I get my files like rexxsyslib.library, but there's a good chance I could use this OS on a daily basis.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: develin on September 26, 2014, 07:35:29 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773925
Wow, OWB even works with my google drive!

Not only can I get my files like rexxsyslib.library, but there's a good chance I could use this OS on a daily basis.



Easiest way to get rexxsyslib is to use Grunch :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: jj on September 26, 2014, 07:36:01 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773925
Wow, OWB even works with my google drive!

Not only can I get my files like rexxsyslib.library, but there's a good chance I could use this OS on a daily basis.


It's pretty awesome isn't it.  Welcome to the club.  Runs much better than OS X on same hardware.  I have triple boot OS X, morphos and ubuntu on a powerbook and Mac mini just for odd occasion. I stay away from the pack these days and just use grunch.

Have  fun.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 07:40:58 AM
Yeah, this is pretty cool.

I went ahead and registed since the timeout was becoming a problem.  Now I'm just waiting on a key file.

I'm still not sold on this keyboard, and although the pack is pretty cool, it installed a BUNCH of extra stuff that I'll never take the time to figure out. I may reinstall yet again.

So is there a google drive client yet?

Edit: I must be tired. This post is all over the map lol
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: KimmoK on September 26, 2014, 07:48:56 AM
I think previously PackChrysalis broke something on my MosBook setup as OWB started to fail with web sites secure login. Now after MOS update to 3.7 the system does not boot every time (sometimes ends up in grey screen). So, perhaps I should do clean start.

(just a little painfull to backup the data with USB1.0 speed of my old PowerBook HW. Especially when the USB is not rock solid either ((or perhaps my USB issues are only with Android devices where transfers hang with multiple files)))


Anyway I'm so far pretty happy with the 50eur HW investment (1GhzG4, 1GB RAM, new DVD drive, brand new battery+spare battery) with it's defects (no sound, weird keyboard things, etc...).
(silly how much faster it is than my newer 1.8Ghz LinuxMintDebianEdition laptop HW)


btw. licence price for those half supported PowerBooks could/should be smaller than 111eur.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: jj on September 26, 2014, 11:28:45 AM
Quote from: KimmoK;773935
I think previously PackChrysalis broke something on my MosBook setup as OWB started to fail with web sites secure login. Now after MOS update to 3.7 the system does not boot every time (sometimes ends up in grey screen). So, perhaps I should do clean start.

(just a little painfull to backup the data with USB1.0 speed of my old PowerBook HW. Especially when the USB is not rock solid either ((or perhaps my USB issues are only with Android devices where transfers hang with multiple files)))


Anyway I'm so far pretty happy with the 50eur HW investment (1GhzG4, 1GB RAM, new DVD drive, brand new battery+spare battery) with it's defects (no sound, weird keyboard things, etc...).
(silly how much faster it is than my newer 1.8Ghz LinuxMintDebianEdition laptop HW)


btw. licence price for those half supported PowerBooks could/should be smaller than 111eur.



What is not supported on powerbook.  I am running on powerbook and have not found anything that is not supported or does not work.  Sounds like you either have a bad install or faulty hardware ?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 26, 2014, 12:43:32 PM
@KimmoK

Odd. As far as I know USB 2.0 should be supported, as well as sound and keyboard. The only unreleased feature I've heard of on a "supported" hardware is Wifi and non native screen modes (which are now fixed). MorphOS Team is pretty strict about not releasing stuff where important features is missing.

@Hieroglyph

I've written about Crabaum on my blog :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: KimmoK on September 26, 2014, 02:39:09 PM
@jj & yasu

More about old powerbooks:
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9960&forum=11#111747

Home page still does not mention that audio does not work etc.
http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware

@yasu
The HW only has USB1.1.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: jj on September 26, 2014, 03:38:39 PM
Wifi works on both powerbooks and mac mini now
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: jj on September 26, 2014, 03:40:05 PM
Quote from: KimmoK;773951
@jj & yasu

More about old powerbooks:
http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9960&forum=11#111747

Home page still does not mention that audio does not work etc.
http://www.morphos-team.net/hardware

@yasu
The HW only has USB1.1.


Sorry should have read properly mine is the very last model so everything works luckily.  I understand there are issues with the older versions of the powerbook
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 26, 2014, 03:59:20 PM
@KimmoK

I did not know that. Still, no so sound sounds weird (no pun intended).

[edit] Forgot a "no".
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 05:06:42 PM
Quote from: Yasu;773956
sound sounds weird (no pun intended).


Yeah, no pun intended, huh? :lol:

If I'm going to forget the pack, besides Grunch, what are your must have additions?

I wasn't a fan of that shortcut bar at the bottom, but would like something for easy access to commonly used apps. That one just didn't react in a way that I found comfortable, even after changing some settings.

Also, the MorphOS SDK looks really complete and even has what appears to be a decent editor included.

Is there any benefit to picking up something like CubicIDE or is that even the best option?

I'm planning to write things for both MorphOS and Amiga 68k if that matters and I prefer vbcc over gcc where possible.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 26, 2014, 05:15:20 PM
@hieroglyph

Yes, I even misspelled :p

Good question. Depends on what you want to do. But with Grunch you can look up a lot of useful programs to install.

I don't like bars so I use a custom menu via Crabum instead. Very practical when you use a pop up menu.

Can't help you with CubicIDE nor programming. I'm trying to learn Hollywood :p
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on September 26, 2014, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: KimmoK;773935
I think previously PackChrysalis broke something on my MosBook setup as OWB started to fail with web sites secure login. Now after MOS update to 3.7 the system does not boot every time (sometimes ends up in grey screen). So, perhaps I should do clean start.

(just a little painfull to backup the data with USB1.0 speed of my old PowerBook HW. Especially when the USB is not rock solid either ((or perhaps my USB issues are only with Android devices where transfers hang with multiple files)))

You could backup to other partition (Work: for example) and manually format the System partition and then do new install with manual partitioning option, which shouldn't affect to that Work: etc because you already have correct partitions and no need to touch them. I'm pretty sure it did work that way, but I can test again before you start to blame me if I didn't remember it right ;)

Quote from: JJ;773944
What is not supported on powerbook.  I am running on powerbook and have not found anything that is not supported or does not work.  Sounds like you either have a bad install or faulty hardware ?

Some older Powerbooks are missing audio.. those titanium models which weren't earlier supported at all, but now they are enabled even though not all features do work. If you read careful the hardware compatibility page, Powerbooks' on-board audio isn't told to be supported at all, so basically it's just bonus that it works on aluminium ones ;) Anyway that's why you are forced to test the machine before you can register so that you know what you get. At least KimmoK knew that audio doesn't work on his Powerbook before paying the registration, but of course wouldn't hurt to have that kind of things more clearly said on hw page.

Quote from: Heiroglyph;773959
I wasn't a fan of that shortcut bar at the bottom, but would like something for easy access to commonly used apps. That one just didn't react in a way that I found comfortable, even after changing some settings.

Do you mean "shortcut bar" from Chrysalis? Anyway, you have Panels in Ambient settings and you can configure your own bars with those.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 05:36:53 PM
Quote

Do you mean "shortcut bar" from Chrysalis? Anyway, you have Panels in Ambient settings and you can configure your own bars with those.


I'm not sure what to call it, but Chrysalis added a bar at the bottom with shortcuts on it.

I didn't like it visible full time, so I tried various settings for zipping out from the side.

It just never felt correct, like it waited too long or was too picky about where the mouse had to be in order to open it.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on September 26, 2014, 06:44:43 PM
Doesn't matter if it's Chrysalis or Ambient panels: I prefer menus :) It's a habit from my MagicMenu using days.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 26, 2014, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: Yasu;773969
Doesn't matter if it's Chrysalis or Ambient panels: I prefer menus :) It's a habit from my MagicMenu using days.


I just need quick access without them covering up maximized windows. It doesn't matter where they come from.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: zylesea on September 26, 2014, 11:41:06 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;773959
Yeah, no pun intended, huh? :lol:



Is there any benefit to picking up something like CubicIDE or is that even the best option?

I'm planning to write things for both MorphOS and Amiga 68k if that matters and I prefer vbcc over gcc where possible.

I think Scribble from the SDK is at least on par with Cubic for writing C/C++. Cubic is very customizable though and has many nice features, too. But it also has some odd things (it's not MUI, uses a non ASL-File requester) and actually using all the configuration options is quite some work. Nevertheless I still like Cubic and use it pretty much. But I wouldn't miss it much if wiped out from my hdd since Scribble got released (bought Cubic ages ago when there was no MorphOS included editor), hence am using it more out of a habbit. Also I am not doing that much in C++ but more with Hollywood and for that Cubic has a brilliant plug in which Scribble hasn't.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: haywirepc on September 27, 2014, 06:41:18 AM
Just a strange question but I always wondered by morphos, aros and os4 never looked into a tsr or driver for each classic amiga chip.

These drivers would or could emulate the classic sound and video chips and so on and redirect things to the main drivers. In this way software that bangs the classic hardware would work...

Always seem strange to me to need uae or whatever on these platforms. I can run that on windows...
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 27, 2014, 08:25:11 AM
Quote from: zylesea;773992
I think Scribble from the SDK is at least on par with Cubic for writing C/C++. Cubic is very customizable though and has many nice features, too. But it also has some odd things (it's not MUI, uses a non ASL-File requester) and actually using all the configuration options is quite some work. Nevertheless I still like Cubic and use it pretty much. But I wouldn't miss it much if wiped out from my hdd since Scribble got released (bought Cubic ages ago when there was no MorphOS included editor), hence am using it more out of a habbit. Also I am not doing that much in C++ but more with Hollywood and for that Cubic has a brilliant plug in which Scribble hasn't.


Thanks for the input on Cubic IDE.

One of my ideas originally was to make a scintilla based code editor, then I found Scribble.

It's not bad a all.  The style looks a bit like a toy, but functionally it's not bad at all.

I've never had a good experience installing Cubic either. It always has a problem on UAE for me and today I tried the demo on MorphOS and it still had problems with the SDK. (can't remember what, I just decided it wasn't worth fixing)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 27, 2014, 05:41:28 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;774002
Just a strange question but I always wondered by morphos, aros and os4 never looked into a tsr or driver for each classic amiga chip.

These drivers would or could emulate the classic sound and video chips and so on and redirect things to the main drivers. In this way software that bangs the classic hardware would work...

Always seem strange to me to need uae or whatever on these platforms. I can run that on windows...


I think that Puhderbaer is a small subset of this. It intercepts Paula accesses and redirects them to AHI.  It's CPU intensive for one thing and that's just audio.

I think the bigger reason they don't is that they are of the mindset that OS legal applications are fine because they are extending the OS as Commodore would have.

If you try to be almost an emulator, you have a lot of unhappy people when it doesn't work. It's safer to not be an emulator and be good at what you do focus on.

I don't think there is a technical reason you couldn't do it, but it could get messy and complicated real fast.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: krashan on September 28, 2014, 10:34:41 AM
One of powerful Scribble features is code indexing, available for C and C++. Scribble analyses the project code with the "ctags" tool, then provides calltips and autocompletion for functions and structures, not only for the system API, but for the project itself. While it is an obvious feature of professional IDEs, Cubic IDE lacks it, as far as I know.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 28, 2014, 07:49:37 PM
Quote from: Krashan;774082
One of powerful Scribble features is code indexing, available for C and C++. Scribble analyses the project code with the "ctags" tool, then provides calltips and autocompletion for functions and structures, not only for the system API, but for the project itself. While it is an obvious feature of professional IDEs, Cubic IDE lacks it, as far as I know.


So far I'm pretty impressed with scribble.

I'm not sure how well it will work for larger projects with multiple makefiles, but individually it's much better than expected.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 28, 2014, 09:30:08 PM
Ok, I give up, where is the 12 hour, AM/PM setting on the clock?

That's starting to bug me.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Nicho on September 28, 2014, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;774132
Ok, I give up, where is the 12 hour, AM/PM setting on the clock?


If you mean the clock in the screenbar, you can change the format by right clicking on the screen depth gadget->settings->clock
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Nicho on September 28, 2014, 11:33:47 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;774120
So far I'm pretty impressed with scribble.

I'm not sure how well it will work for larger projects with multiple makefiles, but individually it's much better than expected.


Thanks. The project functionality should work fine for more complex makefiles as well but it obviously depends on you having makefiles in the first place :-). For some users it would obviously be good to provide an alternative of fully integrated project management like in IDEs on other platforms but it's not something I have a lot of motivation to do (I wouldn't use it myself basically).

By the way, the big feature for the next version (besided loads of smaller things here and there) will be extensive support for Lua scripts and automatic script recording.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 28, 2014, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: Nicho;774140
If you mean the clock in the screenbar, you can change the format by right clicking on the screen depth gadget->settings->clock


Holy crap, who right clicks on a depth gadget?

Thanks!
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Nicho on September 28, 2014, 11:53:35 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;774142
Holy crap, who right clicks on a depth gadget?

Thanks!


Maybe not so intuitive indeed but on MorpOS, it's used in several contexts. Try to do that on on the of the depth gadgets of a window. Those thumbnails are quite useful!
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 29, 2014, 04:01:19 AM
Quote from: Nicho;774141
Thanks. The project functionality should work fine for more complex makefiles as well but it obviously depends on you having makefiles in the first place :-). For some users it would obviously be good to provide an alternative of fully integrated project management like in IDEs on other platforms but it's not something I have a lot of motivation to do (I wouldn't use it myself basically).

By the way, the big feature for the next version (besided loads of smaller things here and there) will be extensive support for Lua scripts and automatic script recording.


I guess I was writing my reply when you wrote this, I just noticed it.

The longer I use it, the more I appreciate all the little touches.  Great work.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on September 29, 2014, 07:30:44 AM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;774142
Holy crap, who right clicks on a depth gadget?

Long left click works by default too, IIRC. Which at least can be found by accident too ;)

But as said, RMB usage has been extended to quite a many places and I think it's quite handy to have more all kinds of functionality available within the context. You can RMB over files, Ambient window titlebar, window and screen gadgets, parent button, filerequesters etc.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: nicholas on September 29, 2014, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: Nicho;774141
By the way, the big feature for the next version (besided loads of smaller things here and there) will be extensive support for Lua scripts and automatic script recording.


Yay!  I just started playing around with Lua recently and am really enjoying it, this will be a very nice feature indeed. :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: krashan on September 29, 2014, 10:31:56 AM
Quote from: nicholas;774160
Yay!  I just started playing around with Lua recently and am really enjoying it, this will be a very nice feature indeed. :)
MorphOS has nicely integrated Lua port with ARexx bridge (so one can send ARexx commands to applications from Lua).
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: trekiej on October 06, 2014, 03:49:02 AM
I hope the original poster does not mind if I ask a question.
I am thinking of getting a G4/G5 for MorphOS.
What are your recomendations?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Heiroglyph on October 06, 2014, 06:45:48 AM
Quote from: trekiej;774554
I hope the original poster does not mind if I ask a question.
I am thinking of getting a G4/G5 for MorphOS.
What are your recomendations?


I don't mind at all.

This is my first MorphOS machine, so I don't have a point of reference to help much though.

I got an air cooled G5 Power Mac, but I've heard that the cooling systems on the water cooled faster models either prematurely fails by leaking or the CPUs just plain burn out if it doesn't.

I can't say mine feels as fast as I'd like it to be though. Web browsing in OWB for example could use some more oomph. It's sluggish, but still far better than Linux on the same hardware. Same for playing videos.

I've done an install of Debian and it really puts a nail in the coffin of "PPC is faster at the same clock speed". Maybe on math, but not for average desktop use. Debian on my old Athlon XP 2400 (2.0GHz) single core is more responsive than this Mac dual 2.0GHz , even with a slightly slower ATI video card.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: krashan on October 06, 2014, 10:07:06 AM
Quote from: trekiej;774554
I am thinking of getting a G4/G5 for MorphOS.
What are your recomendations?
It depends on your requirements. If you just want to have the fastest machine around, go for 2.7 GHz G5... However it is true, that liquid cooling system of those machines usually requires repairs or even complete rebuild after these years. It is not an easy task to do. So what are your goals? Low price, portability, space taken, generated noise, electricity consumption, machine speed, slots for additional cards?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on October 06, 2014, 12:15:05 PM
I got an G5 @ 2.7 GHz and so far there is no problem with it. But yes, one day it will start to leak and then I have to get it fix (expensive) or throw it away.

The 2 GHz models are plentiful, fast and pretty cheap. If you can find a 2.3 GHz (the fastest without water cooling) it would be a very good buy.

I'm very happy with my G5, even though there are some slight compatibility issues. I think the raw power makes it a lot more joyful to use than my slower G4 Ibook and Powerbook.

Like Krashan said, it depends on what you want.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Everblue on October 06, 2014, 02:57:39 PM
Quote from: Yasu;774563
I got an G5 @ 2.7 GHz and so far there is no problem with it. But yes, one day it will start to leak and then I have to get it fix (expensive) or throw it away.

The 2 GHz models are plentiful, fast and pretty cheap. If you can find a 2.3 GHz (the fastest without water cooling) it would be a very good buy.

I'm very happy with my G5, even though there are some slight compatibility issues. I think the raw power makes it a lot more joyful to use than my slower G4 Ibook and Powerbook.

Like Krashan said, it depends on what you want.


What kind of compatibility issues>?
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: esc on October 06, 2014, 04:39:07 PM
+1 on the recommendations for an air cooled G5. Story time.

I had a 2.7ghz G5 powermac that recently kicked the bucket. It had leakage from the ICS on both cpu's, as well as damage to the (logic board?) motherboard. It was unfixable on a computer I bought for $50. So, I picked up a 2ghz air cooled G5 and the morphos team gave me a new keyfile at no charge (thanks!) so I'm currently using that.

Initial thoughts: Most things _feel_ like they are the same, 2.7ghz vs 2ghz. There is a pretty stark difference in OSX, though. The only time I really feel the slower clock speed is actually with OWB browsing the web. Specifically, opening new tabs takes ages. Other than that I didn't really notice the difference in clock speed, even with gaming.

Now, I personally wanted MorphOS to be more or less a solution for me to do all my retro Amiga stuff on newer and faster hardware, in particular run PPC software. To a degree, I can now do this. However, Warp3D is only available on some gpu chipsets. I have a Radeon9800XT in my machine, which is fantastic for games designed for MorphOS, and ports of games like doom and quake. It's seriously fast and awesome. However, I can't run WipeOut2097, Shogo MAD, or those very few games I intended to run in the first place :( Dual GPUs don't work for me, though I guess on some G4 powermacs they do. The dev team has no intention of bringing warp3d to any other cards - they look at it like it's dead and not useful. :(

I do have a radeon9250 (flashed for Mac) that I've successfully booted and run the aforementioned warp3d games on. However, it crushes some of my other games that I really enjoy, so it's not useful. Ideally, I would like to be able to run dual GPUs, my 9800xt in agp and the 9250 in pci.

One other talking point is that the G5 doesn't really have much "optimized" to run on it. UAE runs like absolute garbage for me, so whdload games aren't currently an option. Which...really sucks. Oh well.

My recommendations depends on what you'll use it for. Warp3d games and stuff: Find a mac mini g4 with silent upgrade (double GPU RAM) and you'll be happy! Want a more robust system with potential to later support more ram, different GPUs, etc? Get a g5 air cooled powermac.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on October 06, 2014, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: Everblue;774564
What kind of compatibility issues>?


Nothing major. Only some games that has been working less well than on a G4 machine.
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: trekiej on October 06, 2014, 11:58:05 PM
Thanks, I would like to use a G4/G5 all in one. Is emac the only one of those that will work?
Edit:
I found an answer.
http://www.osnews.com/story/24181/New_Year_s_Teaser_MorphOS_on_iMac_G5

There is a nice mac mini case on this page.
http://amiga.ikirsector.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=13682
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: pVC on October 07, 2014, 06:42:21 AM
Quote from: trekiej;774578
Thanks, I would like to use a G4/G5 all in one. Is emac the only one of those that will work?
Edit:
I found an answer.
http://www.osnews.com/story/24181/New_Year_s_Teaser_MorphOS_on_iMac_G5

There isn't any real sign or promise to have real support for that iMac, I wouldn't count on it. And eMac just isn't good enough IMHO, mainly because CRT isn't what you'd expect nowadays :)

The closest thing for all-in-one would be a laptop, I'd recommend the latest Powerbook G4:s or maybe the very latest iBooks too.

But for a good all-around machine some desktop G4 machine around 1.5GHz or so would be a good choice at this point too. 1.5GHz Mac mini or then some reasonably fast Powermac G4. G4 machines are well supported and you can have compatibility with Warp3D etc if wanted. G5 is a bit different beast and it sounds like it needs some extra treatment from the software side, which maybe isn't optimized fully yet. Or at least that impression I've got, but I haven't used G5 machine ever...
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: Yasu on October 07, 2014, 01:02:08 PM
The iMac isn't supported. There is a proof of concept out there but due to some inherent technical problems they never released it. MorphOS Team doesn't want to add hardware support for machines that are expected to give them headaches.

My personal recommendations would be either a 2.3 GHz G5 (it's not water cooled) or a 1.67 GHz G4 Powerbook. The first for power, expandabilities and coolness :) The other for good support, portability and the fact that it's the fastest G4 machine out there, it got plenty of VRAM (up to 128 GB) and can be connected to a VGA screen.

My non-recommendation would be a Emac and an Efika. You will get tired of those quickly (The Efika is a cool little machine, but totally underpowered).

A Mac Mini silent upgrade is nice but often quite expensive compared to a G5 or Powerbook. Only get one if you lack space. And don't get the non silent upgrades because the have only 32 MB VRAM. A 2.0 GHz G5 is a good comprimise if you can't find a 2.3 GHz one. A Powermac G4 is also good, but there you need to make sure you have the right hardware (same with G5 also though). Ibooks are a little on the weak side so there are mostly good for portability (I think they have better keyboards than the Powerbooks).

So look at the list at the bottom, go for one of the two recommendations and you won't be sorry ;)

You can also read my blog that is geared to newbies for more info: http://morphosuser.wordpress.com.

http://www.morphos.de/hardware
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: jj on October 07, 2014, 09:13:47 PM
Hadn't realised that there was a G5 imac.  Last model pretty decent specs.  Would be pretty impressed if support came for those.  They are not too expensive either :)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: takemehomegrandma on October 07, 2014, 09:22:49 PM
Quote from: JJ;774628
Hadn't realised that there was a G5 imac.  Last model pretty decent specs.

Just as a parenthesis, the "A8" CPU used in the iPhone 6 scores just below a 2.5GHz G5 in spec int... ;)
Title: Re: MorphOS noob. School me!
Post by: zylesea on October 07, 2014, 09:46:41 PM
My suggestion is a Powerbook 1.67 GHz with 1.5 GB RAM.
It's a pretty nice maschine: well supported, small, silent, mobile, energy efficient, rather slick looking (depends on how careful the previous owner was, my Powerbook looks as good as if it came straight ot of the box) and pretty fast.
The non support of the R300 for W3D is the only downer i am aware of, but there's not much W3D stuff which cannot be replaced. For example the already mentioned WO2097 is said to run even better in FPSE emulator than the WarpOS version.